The def/defl thing happened as full dps GWF has 21-25-28k HP.
This, also most of my GWFs deflect comes from a set bonus. Now, why the damage dealing class has better defensive set bonus than the tanking class..no idea ask the devs
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The 'old' Sentinel PvP builders realised that they only need to control a node and not die to win. They aren't aiming for kills, only a lack of dying as more and more are running Gauntlgrym with prone-spec, high hp, high def/defl and are lucky if they get an assist with the low damage they do.
It's the reason GWF's found it important to run the PvP campaign out of the blocks, and why the leaderboard means nothing about unstoppable and more about desire to fall back into a winning role with less damage. Brawlers will still have insane burst damage, but they wont win a node alone or defend one alone. Sent Def/Defl will win matches long term, as people randomly turn up at the nodes they are on and apply dps - Co-op.
Like everybody that qq's you are taking what I said out of context. For a GWF to have the defensive stats the OP listed he would have to be heavily specced for it, and he would hit for HAMSTER if he was specced that way.
Erroneous.
My 13.8k GWF: 38% DR, 28% deflec, 9% Life Steal, Unstoppable, 5300 power, 3200 crit, 2000 arpen.
My 14.2k GF: 44% DR, 22% deflec, 1% Life Steal, 9200 power, 1600 crit, 2200 arpen.
My GWF out DPSes my GF and is far tankier. Stand in red, TAB, Wicked Strike, back to full health.
The GF has 59% more gear stats in defense and is only rewarded with 6% more DR. He has nearly double power but can't kill as fast.
I never believed the gulf in class until I actually rolled a GWF. The GWF is so awesome it is just stupid. Ezgodmode.
I love my GF, but we're gimped in many areas.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
My 13.8k GWF: 38% DR, 28% deflec, 9% Life Steal, Unstoppable, 5300 power, 3200 crit, 2000 arpen.
My 14.2k GF: 44% DR, 22% deflec, 1% Life Steal, 9200 power, 1600 crit, 2200 arpen.
My GWF out DPSes my GF and is far tankier. Stand in red, TAB, Wicked Strike, back to full health.
The GF has 59% more gear stats in defense and is only rewarded with 6% more DR. He has nearly double power but can't kill as fast.
I never believed the gulf in class until I actually rolled a GWF. The GWF is so awesome it is just stupid. Ezgodmode.
I love my GF, but we're gimped in many areas.
Well that is about right. Also I think normal lifesteal Stat doesnt work for a GF ( attacks are so slow ) and I do play both fighters. My GWF is like yours only about 3K higher and with Unstop + Lifesteal I have solo killed Frozen Heart last boss with only 2 more party members in PVP gear ( a GF keeping 60% of the mobs away, me on boss + other 30% mobs and a DC droppin' heals here and there while runnin' away from the rest 10% mobs ). In that same situation if it was a DC + 2 GFs they would have failed fast and hard. Now, my problem with the current Fighter situation is this, the majority of people see the GWF as OP and want it nerfed. That is the wrong way to look at it imo. Instead lets focus our energy on providing ideas about bringing up the GF. I've seen some pretty good ones already on the forum, hopefully the devs saw them too. Its so easy to hate on the GWF, almost as easy as it is to play one. But they had it rough once. Ive played my Destroyer since beta. I recall the times when nobody wanted to even hear about us in a dungeon party. And despite what so many people are eager to say the GWF Destro is not a PVP god - he not only kills fast , he also dies fast.
My own opinion - GF needs a better guard since it is his shiled ( not his Mark ) that is the true class defining mechanic. A guard that is as good as the GWF's unstoppable. A guard that doesnt melt away under numerous fast but weak attacks. Next thing a GF needs is the ability to do some good dps as a Conq. GFs who spec for damage should have it, GF who spec for tanks should be super hard to take down. Whats the point of 10K Power if your 8000 tooltipped encounter ends up hitting for 4000-5000 single target ( and thats not cause of lack of ArmPen too ) ? Last but not least GF should have either or both: high inherent HP , higher defense/deflect. Some classes have high crit chance without having insane Crit Rate, some have high defense without having insane def rate. GF scale crits poorly we should scale defensive stats the best.
EDIT- Forgot to add one thing. Im sure people will see what I wrote and think " he solo tanks/kills a T2 final boss and claims GFW not OP, nerf asap! " To you I say this - I've been playin' for a long time now, I've spent money and time developing that GWF and tweaking him to do insane damage and benefit the most from lifesteal. He wasnt nearly as good at 14 as he is at 16.3 (pvp gear) and just imagine what those at 17-18K can do. So when you call something OP please be so kind to make the distinction between a class and its gear.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Everybody saying that def stats scale batter with the GWF are just plain wrong. Stats put on to a GWF have diminishing returns the same as other classes. I will agree with you however its much easier for a GWF to get deflect than GF, but not damage resistance.
The problem is, in this game tankiness is not determined by Dmg resistance which mostly contributed by defense stat. The best defensive stats in this game are HP and regeneration, followed by deflect. Defense is the worst of all defensive stats, idk where to put lifesteal, because I didnt invest any point in lifesteal. As a GF you will get more than enough Defense, it's even hard to get deflect as a GF from the PvP armor set (only the Preserver version gives you a decent amount of deflect). As a GWF you'll get HP and deflect easily. Every class can have decent amount of regeneration nowadays with artifacts and boon. In short, GF gets the worst defensive stat, GWF gets one of the best defensive stats in HP and deflect, and of course IBS that hit like a truck.
Ant, remember back with tenebrous enchants proc'ing all the time. People where 1-2 shotted and QQ, and they nerfed that.
i'll go further than that remember module 1 when GF's where the thing and nobody wanted to touch a GWF with a 10 feet poll ??? DEV's gave some major love to the GWF to balance things out but went to strong now that being said im a believer that module 4 will bring great thing for GF's everywhere.....
Again people either keep taking what I say out of context or change the subject of the arguement.
A gwf cannot stack hitpoints any easier than a GF. Deflect is the only thing I will say he has an easier time of and that is really only due to the bravery class feature, which if used gives up a major dps slot in the form of weapon master or destroyer. This whole time I have been arguing the points of deflect and defense on a GWF and GF. When did regen hitpoints and lifesteal, or your overal defensive score get into this argument? An to answer a question I think you are trhing to ask, regen isn't really that great in PVE. Regen won't save you in PVE, but lifesteal can. I am not that great of a pvper, but I would make the assumption its the opposite for PVP.
I didnt change the subject, you were talking about how GF can easily get more Dmg Resist than GWF, but the problem is tankiness is not determined by Dmg Resistance. Thats my first line of my reply to your post.
I was talking from PvP point of view, sorry I didnt mention it, because I assumed OP talked about PvP. I only care about PvP nowadays, because it's the only place where my GF can be a bit useful atm. If you do lot of PvP you'll likely agree with with my post, regeneration is a must have stat in PvP, where everyone is stacking HP instead of defense and PvP spec'd GWFs will easily reach over 35k HP without sacrifcing its offensive stat. And just want to mention that as a GF having some regen and large HP is not useless in PvE, Ive done many T2 runs without DC, and sometimes only with 1 CW, I still took the most dmg, and guess what I only used like 2-5 HP potions, even Ive done few FH (this is a very easy T2) runs without DC and didnt even use a single potion.
Plus lifesteal softcaps pretty quickly, and GFs don't do that much damage. Regen doesn't care about all that.
It's not a "lifesteal OR regen" situation (aside from one or two boon choices), you can have both. And as a GF, you should.
As for GFs vs GWFs, GWFs get an AWFUL lot of tankiness from unstoppable. It's basically like popping iron warrior and villains menace, while standing in a yellow astral shield...all in one go, and it's not too hard to maintain it almost constantly. Two encounters and a daily, in one easy to use class feature.
You can have pretty much tissue paper for armour: as long as you can survive one hit, you then pop unstoppable, murder all the things, rinse, repeat.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited May 2014
I think the main problem here is itemization and stacking of stats.
a GWF
Con - HP+Armor penetration
Str - Damage
Dex - Deflect
A GF
Con - HP
Str - Damage+ guard increase
Dex - Armor pen
So who has the better stats - GWF has the best distribution HP that has no diminishing return with armor pen, basically you can just focus on CON and STR
now onto the items.
a GWF has a 2 set bonus that increase their HP or the offhand/mainhand that increase crit(i think) <-- i'm talking about the 2 pieces pvp set for the HP
a GF has a 2 set bonus that increase Def and an offhand/mainhand that also increase def (diminishing return)
Basically a GWF has more freedom in terms of bonus stats and they are not heavily punish by diminishing return. did i also mention how the class arficat bonus are.
GWF articat - HP/Power/Armor pen <-- 2 stats that doesn't have any cap nor diminishing return
GF- Def/AOE resist/? <-- not sure what the last one is
Given that a GF can also wear one if he has a GWF alt but the stats the items of each fighter class is something to thing about.
I'm just sad that GFs, which are supposed to be the tank classes, have never been the tankiest class in the game since the beta. I just wonder what developers plan is about our future. They keep adding armour with higher defense but obviously that's not working, someone should remind them that we've already reached hard cap.
but the problem is tankiness is not determined by Dmg Resistance.
Dmg Resistance, for a GF and GWF will always provide more effective hitpoints than deflect in PVP. So your previous statment isn't true. GF nor GWF has any benefit similar to Hunter's 4-set +heal on deflect. Point for point, Damage Resistance will always provide more "tankiness" than Deflect Chance.
Both deflect and damage resistance become more effective the more of it you have. With the current gear in the game, it's safe to say that damage resistance will ALWAYS provide more tankiness point for point than deflect chance, even against an opponent with stacked ignore resistance.
And it happens to be the case that if deflect chance is at 100%, then yes, deflect chance will finally provide more tankiness. But a GF or a GWF will never have anywhere close to 100% deflect chance.
comparing 99% deflect chance to 100% deflect chance with 0% damage resistance, show % damage taken
50/50.5 = .9901 = less than 1% damage reduction
I compare deflect using 0% damage resistance only to make the numbers easier to work with. For example, at 100% deflect chance and 0% damage resistance, you will take 50% damage. However, your actual damage resistance could be anything and this would still be true for GF and GWF with actual gear in game in PVP.
The actual cutoff is between 100% - 101%, but because having over 100% deflect would provide not actual benefit in game, I calculated for 99% - 100% which would be the next closest comparison.
They keep adding armour with higher defense but obviously that's not working, someone should remind them that we've already reached hard cap.
There is no hard cap for defense. X% increase in defense will provide a flat ~(X/7)% increase in damage resistance, irregardless of what defense stat is already at.
You can test this by taking off/on your armor until your defense stat has change by X%, then looking at your Damage Resistance.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
There is no hard cap for defense. X% increase in defense will provide a flat ~(X/7)% increase in damage resistance, irregardless of what defense stat is already at.
• If someone has 99% deflect chance, you might as well say they have a 50% damage resistance since deflect, deflects have of the incoming damage.
• Wrong. At 3500 def + the GF's AC feat' we can achieve 50% DR. With that said I've stacked defense up too 6k before, that's a 2.5k+ increase and ONLY achieved a 53% DR. You don't think something is wrong there?
The equation is consistance irregardless of current Defense stat value. For starters, if the ONLY thing that changed was going from 3500 defense to 6000 defense, then your damage resistance would increase by an amount close to 6%, not 3%. Meaning feats or +AC and other buffs were different or you're lying or misunderstand what you were reading.
I just did some test in my GF a couple of days ago, these were the results:
The rate of growth of DR is (in my case) 11,545/x, where x is the amount of defense, that is, if my defense is 5000, then my DR increases 0.002309 per defense, or in another way, the rate of growth in that point is 2,309 per 1,000 of defense, but note that it would be less than that (I mean, I would get less than 2,309 DR if I put 1000 DEF more), because the rate of growth decrease all the time.
NOTE:
- AC from feats and equip are included, so if you wanna see the DR that is a directly result from Defence you should subtract 12.5.
- I don't know if the DR shown is affected by Armor Specialization feat.
Both deflect and damage resistance become more effective the more of it you have. With the current gear in the game, it's safe to say that damage resistance will ALWAYS provide more tankiness point for point than deflect chance, even against an opponent with stacked ignore resistance.
comparing 99% deflect chance to 100% deflect chance with 0% damage resistance, show % damage taken
50/50.5 = .9901 = less than 1% damage reduction.
That's true, but considering that Def is always easier to get (as their Dimishing Returrns) if you have 750 points to spent I'm sure that using them in Deflect will be better the 95% of the time, for example (checked by some calculations I did), 4750 Def / 3750 Deflect > 5500 Def / 3000 Deflect.
2500/6000 = .42 = 42% defense increase.
42%/7 = 6% = 6% damage resistance increase
Most people think GFs need buffs but it's best not to put out nonsense and inaccurate information.
It's 6.22%, but do you think it's okay to get 6.22% DR with 3500 points?, and then the thing get worse, so the Tankiest GF won't be far from some average GF with 4.5K in Def and 2.5K Deflect (in contrast, the an extremely High Geared GWF have A LOT more DPS than an average GWF), how I see this is that the great diference would be made by regen and in 1v1 or 2v1 situation, GF cant 3v1 in any case but I've seen some GWF going 3v1 and end killing 2 ppl, GF should be able to Tank more by making it not so hard caped, so you could choose if you go to a very good Tankiness / Low DPS or a good DPS / Decent Tankiness. This game demands more than a 6% DR to be a good Tank.
Dmg Resistance, for a GF and GWF will always provide more effective hitpoints than deflect in PVP. So your previous statment isn't true. GF nor GWF has any benefit similar to Hunter's 4-set +heal on deflect. Point for point, Damage Resistance will always provide more "tankiness" than Deflect Chance.
Hmm, I think you misunderstood my post. I didnt say Deflect is better than Dmg Resistance. I said tankiness is not determined by how much Dmg Resistance you have, because Dmg Resistance percentage contributed mostly by defense. PvP spec'd GWF has lower Dmg Resist than a PvP spec'd GF, but they have always been tankier than GF, because they have more HP and deflect, maybe less regen than a GF, but with their large HP it wont matter. HP/Regen > Deflect > Defense.
You're comparing the abilities of the class though. Why don't you compare to a rogue that you can't ever catch and call him more tanki because he can survive longer. Or a hunter more tanki because he can dodge all your encounters and take 0% of the damage? Why don't you compare to a DC than can soak up more hits after using +DR and heals. Why not compare it to a TR that is using ITC or bloodbath or a HR that is using Fox Shift/Cunning.
It's great you understand what I was saying. I understand it realistically doesn't mean much because why would a GF stack more defense in pvp? In defense slots the only thing a GF should be stacking is +HP. How many times have I seen GFs using defense slot rings compared to GWFs? Yet you see many always complaining that GWFs have more +HPs.
Without using any abilities out of all the classes, they take the least damage in the game.
I'm not saying that GFs are strong in PVP, because I feel they are on the weaker end like many other players. But the problems with GFs in PVP and also PVE isn't their lack of tankiness or lack of DR especially considering they have the highest in the game.
I mean hey, if it was up to me their tab would be replaced with something else.
You're comparing the abilities of the class though. Why don't you compare to a rogue that you can't ever catch and call him more tanki because he can survive longer. Or a hunter more tanki because he can dodge all your encounters and take 0% of the damage? Why don't you compare to a DC than can soak up more hits after using +DR and heals. Why not compare it to a TR that is using ITC or bloodbath or a HR that is using Fox Shift/Cunning.
Wha? I didnt compare any abilities of each class, where did I mention that? Ill make it simple, the point of my post is focusing on the stats allocation on the Armor Set of GWF and GF. It is so easy to reach over 36k HP(usually they will go 39k-41k) as GWF without sacrificing your offensive stats. As a GF if you want to stack that much HP you'll have to sacrifice some of your offensive stats.
It is so easy to reach over 36k HP(usually they will go 39k-41k) as GWF without sacrificing your offensive stats. As a GF if you want to stack that much HP you'll have to sacrifice some of your offensive stats.
Really? Show me a single GWF that hasn't sacrificed offense with 41k HPs.
Really this is getting stupid. Look at all the GWFs topping the leaderboards, every single one of them give up offense for +hps, every single one. Why don't you see GFs do this? Because all the smart GF players switched to GWF.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
Max Con - as it adds HP and Armor Pen
wearing 2 (2 piece set of HP bonus set) i forgot the name of those GWF set.
Vanguard Artifact
GWF Artifact
Should i continue? like what the previous poster said they can easily reach 39k without sacrificing too much
Heck i could even tell you that the WPN damage alone is miles away from us GF.
If your going to argue on it's supposed to happen because GWF is a striker class and a GF is a support class, Why the **** is the dc class have more WPN damage than we are (i assume they are also a support class)
Comments
This, also most of my GWFs deflect comes from a set bonus. Now, why the damage dealing class has better defensive set bonus than the tanking class..no idea ask the devs
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
It's the reason GWF's found it important to run the PvP campaign out of the blocks, and why the leaderboard means nothing about unstoppable and more about desire to fall back into a winning role with less damage. Brawlers will still have insane burst damage, but they wont win a node alone or defend one alone. Sent Def/Defl will win matches long term, as people randomly turn up at the nodes they are on and apply dps - Co-op.
And unfortunately 2 GWF and 3 CW master teams.
Erroneous.
My 13.8k GWF: 38% DR, 28% deflec, 9% Life Steal, Unstoppable, 5300 power, 3200 crit, 2000 arpen.
My 14.2k GF: 44% DR, 22% deflec, 1% Life Steal, 9200 power, 1600 crit, 2200 arpen.
My GWF out DPSes my GF and is far tankier. Stand in red, TAB, Wicked Strike, back to full health.
The GF has 59% more gear stats in defense and is only rewarded with 6% more DR. He has nearly double power but can't kill as fast.
I never believed the gulf in class until I actually rolled a GWF. The GWF is so awesome it is just stupid. Ezgodmode.
I love my GF, but we're gimped in many areas.
Well that is about right. Also I think normal lifesteal Stat doesnt work for a GF ( attacks are so slow ) and I do play both fighters. My GWF is like yours only about 3K higher and with Unstop + Lifesteal I have solo killed Frozen Heart last boss with only 2 more party members in PVP gear ( a GF keeping 60% of the mobs away, me on boss + other 30% mobs and a DC droppin' heals here and there while runnin' away from the rest 10% mobs ). In that same situation if it was a DC + 2 GFs they would have failed fast and hard. Now, my problem with the current Fighter situation is this, the majority of people see the GWF as OP and want it nerfed. That is the wrong way to look at it imo. Instead lets focus our energy on providing ideas about bringing up the GF. I've seen some pretty good ones already on the forum, hopefully the devs saw them too. Its so easy to hate on the GWF, almost as easy as it is to play one. But they had it rough once. Ive played my Destroyer since beta. I recall the times when nobody wanted to even hear about us in a dungeon party. And despite what so many people are eager to say the GWF Destro is not a PVP god - he not only kills fast , he also dies fast.
My own opinion - GF needs a better guard since it is his shiled ( not his Mark ) that is the true class defining mechanic. A guard that is as good as the GWF's unstoppable. A guard that doesnt melt away under numerous fast but weak attacks. Next thing a GF needs is the ability to do some good dps as a Conq. GFs who spec for damage should have it, GF who spec for tanks should be super hard to take down. Whats the point of 10K Power if your 8000 tooltipped encounter ends up hitting for 4000-5000 single target ( and thats not cause of lack of ArmPen too ) ? Last but not least GF should have either or both: high inherent HP , higher defense/deflect. Some classes have high crit chance without having insane Crit Rate, some have high defense without having insane def rate. GF scale crits poorly we should scale defensive stats the best.
EDIT- Forgot to add one thing. Im sure people will see what I wrote and think " he solo tanks/kills a T2 final boss and claims GFW not OP, nerf asap! " To you I say this - I've been playin' for a long time now, I've spent money and time developing that GWF and tweaking him to do insane damage and benefit the most from lifesteal. He wasnt nearly as good at 14 as he is at 16.3 (pvp gear) and just imagine what those at 17-18K can do. So when you call something OP please be so kind to make the distinction between a class and its gear.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
i'll go further than that remember module 1 when GF's where the thing and nobody wanted to touch a GWF with a 10 feet poll ??? DEV's gave some major love to the GWF to balance things out but went to strong
I was talking from PvP point of view, sorry I didnt mention it, because I assumed OP talked about PvP. I only care about PvP nowadays, because it's the only place where my GF can be a bit useful atm. If you do lot of PvP you'll likely agree with with my post, regeneration is a must have stat in PvP, where everyone is stacking HP instead of defense and PvP spec'd GWFs will easily reach over 35k HP without sacrifcing its offensive stat. And just want to mention that as a GF having some regen and large HP is not useless in PvE, Ive done many T2 runs without DC, and sometimes only with 1 CW, I still took the most dmg, and guess what I only used like 2-5 HP potions, even Ive done few FH (this is a very easy T2) runs without DC and didnt even use a single potion.
It's not a "lifesteal OR regen" situation (aside from one or two boon choices), you can have both. And as a GF, you should.
As for GFs vs GWFs, GWFs get an AWFUL lot of tankiness from unstoppable. It's basically like popping iron warrior and villains menace, while standing in a yellow astral shield...all in one go, and it's not too hard to maintain it almost constantly. Two encounters and a daily, in one easy to use class feature.
You can have pretty much tissue paper for armour: as long as you can survive one hit, you then pop unstoppable, murder all the things, rinse, repeat.
a GWF
Con - HP+Armor penetration
Str - Damage
Dex - Deflect
A GF
Con - HP
Str - Damage+ guard increase
Dex - Armor pen
So who has the better stats - GWF has the best distribution HP that has no diminishing return with armor pen, basically you can just focus on CON and STR
now onto the items.
a GWF has a 2 set bonus that increase their HP or the offhand/mainhand that increase crit(i think) <-- i'm talking about the 2 pieces pvp set for the HP
a GF has a 2 set bonus that increase Def and an offhand/mainhand that also increase def (diminishing return)
Basically a GWF has more freedom in terms of bonus stats and they are not heavily punish by diminishing return. did i also mention how the class arficat bonus are.
GWF articat - HP/Power/Armor pen <-- 2 stats that doesn't have any cap nor diminishing return
GF- Def/AOE resist/? <-- not sure what the last one is
Given that a GF can also wear one if he has a GWF alt but the stats the items of each fighter class is something to thing about.
Dmg Resistance, for a GF and GWF will always provide more effective hitpoints than deflect in PVP. So your previous statment isn't true. GF nor GWF has any benefit similar to Hunter's 4-set +heal on deflect. Point for point, Damage Resistance will always provide more "tankiness" than Deflect Chance.
Both deflect and damage resistance become more effective the more of it you have. With the current gear in the game, it's safe to say that damage resistance will ALWAYS provide more tankiness point for point than deflect chance, even against an opponent with stacked ignore resistance.
And it happens to be the case that if deflect chance is at 100%, then yes, deflect chance will finally provide more tankiness. But a GF or a GWF will never have anywhere close to 100% deflect chance.
comparing 0% damage resistance to 1% damage resistance
99/100 = .99 = 1% damage reduction
comparing 99% deflect chance to 100% deflect chance with 0% damage resistance, show % damage taken
50/50.5 = .9901 = less than 1% damage reduction
I compare deflect using 0% damage resistance only to make the numbers easier to work with. For example, at 100% deflect chance and 0% damage resistance, you will take 50% damage. However, your actual damage resistance could be anything and this would still be true for GF and GWF with actual gear in game in PVP.
The actual cutoff is between 100% - 101%, but because having over 100% deflect would provide not actual benefit in game, I calculated for 99% - 100% which would be the next closest comparison.
There is no hard cap for defense. X% increase in defense will provide a flat ~(X/7)% increase in damage resistance, irregardless of what defense stat is already at.
You can test this by taking off/on your armor until your defense stat has change by X%, then looking at your Damage Resistance.
• If someone has 99% deflect chance, you might as well say they have a 50% damage resistance since deflect, deflects have of the incoming damage.
• Wrong. At 3500 def + the GF's AC feat' we can achieve 50% DR. With that said I've stacked defense up too 6k before, that's a 2.5k+ increase and ONLY achieved a 53% DR. You don't think something is wrong there?
2500/6000 = .42 = 42% defense increase.
42%/7 = 6% = 6% damage resistance increase
Most people think GFs need buffs but it's best not to put out nonsense and inaccurate information.
The rate of growth of DR is (in my case) 11,545/x, where x is the amount of defense, that is, if my defense is 5000, then my DR increases 0.002309 per defense, or in another way, the rate of growth in that point is 2,309 per 1,000 of defense, but note that it would be less than that (I mean, I would get less than 2,309 DR if I put 1000 DEF more), because the rate of growth decrease all the time.
NOTE:
- AC from feats and equip are included, so if you wanna see the DR that is a directly result from Defence you should subtract 12.5.
- I don't know if the DR shown is affected by Armor Specialization feat.
Now:
That's true, but considering that Def is always easier to get (as their Dimishing Returrns) if you have 750 points to spent I'm sure that using them in Deflect will be better the 95% of the time, for example (checked by some calculations I did), 4750 Def / 3750 Deflect > 5500 Def / 3000 Deflect.
It's 6.22%, but do you think it's okay to get 6.22% DR with 3500 points?, and then the thing get worse, so the Tankiest GF won't be far from some average GF with 4.5K in Def and 2.5K Deflect (in contrast, the an extremely High Geared GWF have A LOT more DPS than an average GWF), how I see this is that the great diference would be made by regen and in 1v1 or 2v1 situation, GF cant 3v1 in any case but I've seen some GWF going 3v1 and end killing 2 ppl, GF should be able to Tank more by making it not so hard caped, so you could choose if you go to a very good Tankiness / Low DPS or a good DPS / Decent Tankiness. This game demands more than a 6% DR to be a good Tank.
It's great you understand what I was saying. I understand it realistically doesn't mean much because why would a GF stack more defense in pvp? In defense slots the only thing a GF should be stacking is +HP. How many times have I seen GFs using defense slot rings compared to GWFs? Yet you see many always complaining that GWFs have more +HPs.
Without using any abilities out of all the classes, they take the least damage in the game.
I'm not saying that GFs are strong in PVP, because I feel they are on the weaker end like many other players. But the problems with GFs in PVP and also PVE isn't their lack of tankiness or lack of DR especially considering they have the highest in the game.
I mean hey, if it was up to me their tab would be replaced with something else.
Screenshot plz?
There must be something else than the basic gwf stats. Potion, buff, companion passive, whatever.
Really? Show me a single GWF that hasn't sacrificed offense with 41k HPs.
Really this is getting stupid. Look at all the GWFs topping the leaderboards, every single one of them give up offense for +hps, every single one. Why don't you see GFs do this? Because all the smart GF players switched to GWF.
wearing 2 (2 piece set of HP bonus set) i forgot the name of those GWF set.
Vanguard Artifact
GWF Artifact
Should i continue? like what the previous poster said they can easily reach 39k without sacrificing too much
Heck i could even tell you that the WPN damage alone is miles away from us GF.
If your going to argue on it's supposed to happen because GWF is a striker class and a GF is a support class, Why the **** is the dc class have more WPN damage than we are (i assume they are also a support class)
Bottom line - GWF far outshine a GF period.