1. Enter boss fight.
2. Fail boss fight.
3. One person disconnects for whatever reason, and doesn't come back.
4. The vote kick was disabled when you started the boss fight, so you can't kick the person who disconnected. But as you can't kick him, you can't get a replacement either.
What now?
I mentioned this earlier, once the boss fight resets, enable kicking again. Basically if the boss fight is flagged as incomplete and not in progress then kicking is allowed.
If the need/greed system were removed, you would no longer face the issue of people "needing" on a green run. I personally do not understand the necessity of the need/greed loot system. Everything can be sold or salvaged, regardless if your character can use the item or not, you would still benefit in some fashion from the loot.
Every time any member of the party loots something, all members of the party auto-roll for that item. Problem solved.
The thing is if you're doing mc/vt/future dungeons when you need your off hand/armour, if it drops other people are going to greed on it which would be a complete waste, so need does have a place in the game,apart from that, all green is generally the way to go for fairness. Of course that doesn't fix the issue of being kicked if you didnt do anything wrong before the loot drops.
Problem is easy to solve - make a list of these players and never play with them again.
That is what i do with players which are too needy, or too laggy or too stupid. It helps a lot.
What Cryptic can do is easier way to keep track of such players, as ignore list is more useful for spammers.
0
ircymimMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
To summ it up: He (she?) didn't need on stuff and still got kicked regardless of it. Allso.. opened a ticket for it.
I suspect there won't be any actions taken tho, other then a possible mail response with 'man up dude'.
Just make vote kicking disabled during fighting and 15 seconds after combat ended. From coding perspective it's easy as a the stuff is all there: all is needed is to flag all party members as if they had a vote in progress - that pretty much blocks any new votings. Then flush vote kicks in progress after combat ended +15 seconds. Very easy implementation with a dummy timer slapped on. :cool:
Since there are so many of you out there that try to PuG "need runs" perhaps a simple solution for YOUR problem would be to add a Team Loot Roll option where there is no Need ability at all. Personally, i will only "need run" with people i know and think it's entirely foolish to do it with strangers. Need roll on PuGs and everyone has the exact same chance at loot that they can use as anyone else in the party.
ircymimMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
The TC said in a followup post that he didn't need stuff.
Assuming he's not lying that makes the reason simple: kicked for higher chance on roll to get boss drop. Comprende?
I have to say, I have never been vote kicked either in all the runs I have done (and I have done a LOT). I've left several times on my own when I dont like the party, but that is a bit different.
I have however heard of this happening - one of my guildmates who is TR has been kicked several times for no reason (I actually felt so sorry for him I bought him a soulforge enchant as he has been playing for ages and because of stuff like this only finishes his t2 set a few days ago with the guilds help), and I KNOW he wasn't needing on stuff - they kick bc they are jerks, and want the loot themselves. Vote kicking tends to happen to classes that aren't really needed on a run and maybe were taken just so the group could get in the dungeon.
Solution is pretty simple and has been mentioned in this thread already.
1 ) Disable vote kicking after a boss is pulled, and 5 minutes after it is killed.
2 ) Do not let people join the group (or don't auto queue the group back up if someone leaves), after a boss is pulled until the loot has been rolled on - or just don't let them roll on the loot.
Problem is easy to solve - make a list of these players and never play with them again.
What Cryptic can do is easier way to keep track of such players, as ignore list is more useful for spammers.
Yes - If people do this to me when I'm doing dailys I ignore them right away as I know it will save me hassles in the future.
OP - I do feel sorry for you and if you would like a run feel free to friend me in game and I will do my best to help you out.
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
0
epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
I have been kicked quite a few times in the past right before the final boss was killed now i never pug anymore. Some people have no honor or respect for the people that helped them get to the end.... if your kicked you dont get your dd chest either...
It happened to me for the first time last night and I felt angered and wanted to break something...but reading all of these post made me realize that there are just THOSE type of persons in the world and that you should stick to people that you have played with before or at least have 2 or 3 people you know in a Dungeon with you.
Imo there should be Vote Kick with present loot thresholds options. There are too many "wise" jerks that at Greed runs makes "mistakes" to press Need. Im sick of "Sorry its a mistake ... i was distracted cuz my phone rings ... my wife scratch my ..<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.." And everytime it happens at last boss when drop is good. For example at Castle (laggy) Never.
If Party leader can set loot options to Greed only, I agree, when u enter at boss fight at dungeon and finish it, Vote kick must be disabled. In this order if you fail boss fight and all of the party are released at camp fire, Vote kick should be enabled again.
These days, when I pug pve, I need everything I can, and so does everyone else, may as well assume it right from the start. Legit runs are havens of honesty, join the channel, zero stress, mutual respect.
These days, when I pug pve, I need everything I can, and so does everyone else. Legit runs are havens of honesty, join the channel, zero stress, mutual respect.
Pretty much this , most of the people on the legit channel are good players , even if they aren't awesome players they are usually good people who you have fun with anyway and the channel polices itself , you screw over your team and you just get blacklisted from the channel so it isn't worth it.
This and the lack of classes are the 2 reasons I no longer play. This was reported by me multiple times during beta, the only time this kind of thing should be happening at all in any game title. They obviously ignored the reports. There is no excuse for not having fixed this bug yet.
Waiting on them to fixit and waiting on them to add at least twice as many classes before I decide to return.
I was running a DK on my CW, and ended up votekicked after the other CW in the group referred to me as a '<expletive deleted>'. First votekick failed, second one went through. This was DURING the final boss fight. It was not a guild run, it was a normal PUG. My concern is that this sort of behavior is going to keep new players from enjoying everything the game has to has to offer.
And vote kicking at the end of a dungeon before loot roll isn't against the rules. The Dev's have already said they're sorry but that's just the way it is. The fact it's still an issue makes me really doubt cryptics integrity.
I have to agree with the last comment just stop the kick vote, if you play with a pug. you get what you get and if you don't like it leave the group. Anyone see any problems with that? Also the non vote should be no and it should be a maj vote or unan vote. I have not played a lot of pugs in NW but I played a ton in WoW and I remember very few times kicking someone was brought up mostly the group just asked them to leave because they were too inexperienced and they usually did. What would people whine about if there was no group kicking?
I have to agree with the last comment just stop the kick vote, if you play with a pug. you get what you get and if you don't like it leave the group. Anyone see any problems with that? Also the non vote should be no and it should be a maj vote or unan vote. I have not played a lot of pugs in NW but I played a ton in WoW and I remember very few times kicking someone was brought up mostly the group just asked them to leave because they were too inexperienced and they usually did. What would people whine about if there was no group kicking?
Because without it you get people that get in then leave and go afk for a free carry. It's why vote kick was put in. This doesn't even take into account other types of trolls that will try to wipe the party. It's needed to combat even worse griefing. Honestly I've been playing mmo's for about ten years now. Most that time the games I've played have had a vote kick. I can count on one hand the times I've been in a party that vote kicked without a very good reason.
Then enable the vote-kick only in specific conditions: People AFK, DC-ed for more than 5 minutes, people not using skills, or (trying to) keeping up with the party's movement. Replacements are not able to initiate vote kicks. There's enough triggers you can place to warrant vote kicks. Just disable them if those conditions are not met.
I'm not against the vote-kicking feature and it has its use. But never have it seen it abuse as much as in this game either. So maybe modifications should be made to the system.
I think, that votekick is needed for needers in greedruns. The problem here is, that the number of players is to big and to fluctuating to selfregulate. In the other MMO I played there have been a few hundred players at max level with raidgear, so if you ninjaed a run you had to change the server, bc you would never find a party again.
Here the GMs would have to do the regulation by banning players with unwanted behaviour. That does not happen. To help things along, you should at last be able to see a list of your partymembers and their vote after a kick, so you can ignore the guilty players in unwanted votekicks.
There are solutions out there, some mentioned in this thread, and in all preceding threads.
Point is, improving kicking system does not improve monetary gains, at least not on a visible scale.
A new companion, a new mount, a new artefact, does increase revenue.
Might as well throw in my suggestion. I would suggest a Party preference option with two options: Fair Deal and Open. You will only join parties with a matching preference from blind queues. If in a party joining a queue every member must have same party preference. Fair Deal auto-greeds drops with +25 to roll if item matches your class. If you win an item you have an option to pass or take it. Fair Deal has no member kick option. If someone goes AFK you either have to disband the party or carry on without them. Open is just like current system, no change.
The other advantage to the Fair Deal, besides removing vote kicking, is far less screen spam.
...people not ... keeping up with the party's movement.
If this were the case, then in our case my wife and I would be kicked from parties just because on my end I always seem to have a pile of files to be patched on the load-in and everyone seems to think lately that dungeons are a race to the end loot/boss fight. I've had to remind people that we all get a prize at the end. By the time my screen resolves, often several of the "party" are already 200-400 (feet? meters?) ahead and running like thier loincloths are on fire.. Fun part there is that since they've run past all the mobs to get ahead, the last member(s) of the party to come through get thier heads kicked in by mobs that have been aggro'd but not cleared. Then when someone gets run over and killed, they're now half a dungeon back at the last campfire.
If this were the case, then in our case my wife and I would be kicked from parties just because on my end I always seem to have a pile of files to be patched on the load-in and everyone seems to think lately that dungeons are a race to the end loot/boss fight. I've had to remind people that we all get a prize at the end. By the time my screen resolves, often several of the "party" are already 200-400 (feet? meters?) ahead and running like thier loincloths are on fire.. Fun part there is that since they've run past all the mobs to get ahead, the last member(s) of the party to come through get thier heads kicked in by mobs that have been aggro'd but not cleared. Then when someone gets run over and killed, they're now half a dungeon back at the last campfire.
Disable on demand patching.
0
myles08807Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 409Arc User
edited July 2014
This game's pace is set by GWFs who sprint ahead, not wanting to waste their precious invulnerability. I play very differently, very aggressively when I'm piloting my GWF around. No one else can keep up but that doesn't stop 'em from trying. I rarely play my DC or GF with strangers because of my poor experiences with this: all the nodes looted and all the loose coin vacuumed up by the time I arrive at the tail end of the fight.
This game's pace is set by GWFs who sprint ahead, not wanting to waste their precious invulnerability. I play very differently, very aggressively when I'm piloting my GWF around. No one else can keep up but that doesn't stop 'em from trying. I rarely play my DC or GF with strangers because of my poor experiences with this: all the nodes looted and all the loose coin vacuumed up by the time I arrive at the tail end of the fight.
Even a lot of the boons reinforce a fast playstyle - elvish fury for example (stacking power buff). I like both ways myself - sometimes I feel like a fast run other times ill take my time and chat and stuff xD. We are all different in the end.
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
no... cryptic can make a moderator system and ban these players who abuse the system... it is cryptic job enforce laws and make the game a better experience.
Just saying "jerks will be jerks" is not how any good community works, would you love to live in a place where people get your paycheck every month and there is no law enforcement to at least TRY arrest them?
there is no law in this game and people do whatever they please. start banning a lot of exploiters and scammers, just do it for a month and lets see if they keep up with this bullcrap.
Unfortunately, running with your guild is going to be your best bet. Vote kicking is going to be abused no matter how you slice it, and Cryptic can do very little about the behaviors of certain people. Some people are just going to be jerks no matter what you do.
The second most common reason is a disconnect. I can't really think of a solution for that unless it's possible for the code to detect a DC and allow a kick...
Please no! Do you know how often I get kicked from dungeons because of a deco? They are so trigger happy. There should be a timer of 5 minutes after deco to give the player a chance to come back.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
Comments
I mentioned this earlier, once the boss fight resets, enable kicking again. Basically if the boss fight is flagged as incomplete and not in progress then kicking is allowed.
The thing is if you're doing mc/vt/future dungeons when you need your off hand/armour, if it drops other people are going to greed on it which would be a complete waste, so need does have a place in the game,apart from that, all green is generally the way to go for fairness. Of course that doesn't fix the issue of being kicked if you didnt do anything wrong before the loot drops.
That is what i do with players which are too needy, or too laggy or too stupid. It helps a lot.
What Cryptic can do is easier way to keep track of such players, as ignore list is more useful for spammers.
I suspect there won't be any actions taken tho, other then a possible mail response with 'man up dude'.
Just make vote kicking disabled during fighting and 15 seconds after combat ended. From coding perspective it's easy as a the stuff is all there: all is needed is to flag all party members as if they had a vote in progress - that pretty much blocks any new votings. Then flush vote kicks in progress after combat ended +15 seconds. Very easy implementation with a dummy timer slapped on. :cool:
Assuming he's not lying that makes the reason simple: kicked for higher chance on roll to get boss drop. Comprende?
I have however heard of this happening - one of my guildmates who is TR has been kicked several times for no reason (I actually felt so sorry for him I bought him a soulforge enchant as he has been playing for ages and because of stuff like this only finishes his t2 set a few days ago with the guilds help), and I KNOW he wasn't needing on stuff - they kick bc they are jerks, and want the loot themselves. Vote kicking tends to happen to classes that aren't really needed on a run and maybe were taken just so the group could get in the dungeon.
Solution is pretty simple and has been mentioned in this thread already.
1 ) Disable vote kicking after a boss is pulled, and 5 minutes after it is killed.
2 ) Do not let people join the group (or don't auto queue the group back up if someone leaves), after a boss is pulled until the loot has been rolled on - or just don't let them roll on the loot.
Yes - If people do this to me when I'm doing dailys I ignore them right away as I know it will save me hassles in the future.
OP - I do feel sorry for you and if you would like a run feel free to friend me in game and I will do my best to help you out.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
If Party leader can set loot options to Greed only, I agree, when u enter at boss fight at dungeon and finish it, Vote kick must be disabled. In this order if you fail boss fight and all of the party are released at camp fire, Vote kick should be enabled again.
Pretty much this , most of the people on the legit channel are good players , even if they aren't awesome players they are usually good people who you have fun with anyway and the channel polices itself , you screw over your team and you just get blacklisted from the channel so it isn't worth it.
Waiting on them to fixit and waiting on them to add at least twice as many classes before I decide to return.
Here's the thing I don't see it here either.
Here the GMs would have to do the regulation by banning players with unwanted behaviour. That does not happen. To help things along, you should at last be able to see a list of your partymembers and their vote after a kick, so you can ignore the guilty players in unwanted votekicks.
— (The unwritten rule)
The other advantage to the Fair Deal, besides removing vote kicking, is far less screen spam.
If this were the case, then in our case my wife and I would be kicked from parties just because on my end I always seem to have a pile of files to be patched on the load-in and everyone seems to think lately that dungeons are a race to the end loot/boss fight. I've had to remind people that we all get a prize at the end. By the time my screen resolves, often several of the "party" are already 200-400 (feet? meters?) ahead and running like thier loincloths are on fire.. Fun part there is that since they've run past all the mobs to get ahead, the last member(s) of the party to come through get thier heads kicked in by mobs that have been aggro'd but not cleared. Then when someone gets run over and killed, they're now half a dungeon back at the last campfire.
* Disable kicking after endboss dies
* Disable kicking during fights
That would let the kicking system work as intended while preventing the most complained-about abuses.
Disable on demand patching.
Even a lot of the boons reinforce a fast playstyle - elvish fury for example (stacking power buff). I like both ways myself - sometimes I feel like a fast run other times ill take my time and chat and stuff xD. We are all different in the end.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Just saying "jerks will be jerks" is not how any good community works, would you love to live in a place where people get your paycheck every month and there is no law enforcement to at least TRY arrest them?
there is no law in this game and people do whatever they please. start banning a lot of exploiters and scammers, just do it for a month and lets see if they keep up with this bullcrap.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!