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Suggections & Appeals for Devouted Cleric
almondum
Member Posts: 313 Arc User
Hello everyone,
Edit1: 05/20/2014
Edit2: 31/05/2014
Edit3: 13/06/2014
I would like to share some suggections for our class. I am not a hardcore player, I started durig open BETA and have been playing since.
For me our class is mainly a support class with good healing capabilities. We were made to fill our team weaknesses, being that healing when the team lacks control, or boost when the team needs to be faster.
I don't see our class as a major damaging class, it is not in the nature of the Devouted Cleric, our nature is to help and bolster our team, not to do pure damage. My suggections have this in mind, and I don't intend to say that a DC should not be able to damage enemies in PVP, I'm saying that a DC should never do more damage in PVP than a Pure Damaging class like TR or GWF of same gear and skill.
Here you go:
-Fix our Armor Penetration for us (all our damaging powers), this is one of the major problems for us to be able to do decent damage in PVP. Not all skills have Arpen fixed, please finish it;(Alot of people seem to agree on this as an urgent issue to be fixed, for the sake of all classes)
- Fix Linked Spirit triggering from Astral Shield and other healing spells (It does not work, it shows the icon, but gives NO ratings) Astral Shield is one of our "signature" skills, it must work to it's full potential...just like a CW's Arcane Singularity. Alot of people mentioned that this is indeed an urgent matter needing DEV's attention
- Fix Chains of Blazing Light (this spells does not work sometimes when you put it on ground, it does not trigger when an enemy stands on it - this happens on both versions of the spell normal&Divine modes)
- Remake some of our powers to make them more attractive&effective/viable. Exemples of some changes:
*Bastion of Health: this spell heals well, but it's cooldown is too long for most of the fights. Maybe reducing slightly reducing it's healing potential would allow you to reduce it's cooldown? This spell is good as it allows you to heal 5 people at same time trigger Linked Spirit at it's maximum (25% rating bonus). Astral Shield's LS is broken unfortunatly and Sunburst requires us to knockback the mobs.....
*Guardian of Faith: this spell is the only daily that gives Instant Healing. As a Daily I think it deserves a more Powerful Heal.
*Forgemaster's Flame: this is our strongest heal in-game. Our problem is that we can't rely on it in PVP for exemple, a smart enemy will move away to negate the healing from it. I suggest that this power should give a short direct HoT(healing over time) on allies around the target which was hit, rather than being a "moving AOE heal". (Some people like it as it is, and disagree here)
- Remake/Remove + Insert New Feats: Some of our feats are close to useless, we have some of the worst feats in-game:
* Domain Synergy: This spell requires a paramount values of recovery to be effective...+ diminushing return.
I sense that your goal was to allow us stack less recovery. So I think you should change this feat in the following way:
"Domain Synergy: Your Powers Recharge - 0,4/0,8/1,2/1,6/2% faster" (I am not good in maths, the % values is upto you to define, I needed to give an example.
* Initiate of Faith: 1% of our Power becomes Crit. 1% of 5.000 power = 50.....1% of 10.000 = 100...well I am not sure that to say...this is just ..nothing. I suspect that your goal was to allow us to increase our crude healing while retaining some of our "burst" capacity. Maybe increasing the % of the feat will help?
*Linked Spirit: I must refer this again as this is a very important feat for us, please FIX it!
*Enduring Releaf: This game has a very fast paced combat, I think 3 seconds is too short for us to make this feat viable. Maybe increasing the buff time of this feat will help.
*Soverein Justice: The healing of this feat is simply too small, it's just not viable. Please increase it's healing to normal/viable levels.
- Make cleric's support count in PvP instead of being a burden. Alot of other players think that they "carry" us to victory. Most of us try/are forced to be "tanks with light heals" to hold bases and buy time, as our healing spells are weak and our support is not enogh. Exemple: 2 TR's can burn down a DC and CW (with same gear, skill, etc). Even if the DC puts a AS+HG+HW+SL+ (cw teleports )...it is not enogh....it is very hard to support our fellows. This one is abit tricky to count, but here it goes: the opinions are controversial. Some people say that we are not balanced enogh, that we lack strong self-heals; other people mention that it's all about the "skill" and setup. Also, some people mentioned that a Support "counter" would help cleric's to be acknowlegde for their supportive nature. Also, someone mentioned that we're not just base holders, we actually interrupt and disrupt the other team tactics
-Allow DC to ressurect people in PVE, we are clerics after all, and if PvP is a holdback here, I am sure you can turn off this Power in PvP, might take abit more work programming though. I didn't check the D&D version on which Neverwinter is based, so please forgive me if this suggection is not compatible. Some people mentioned the potential of this suggection to ruin the game mechanics, and also the cost of this skill from the D&D version on whitch this game is based.
-Design fights where healing and mitigation is more important than Bolstering the Team's DPS. At Castle Never and Valindra the DPS beats the bosses. CN requires more coordination from CW's, but from the DC what is required mostly is to offer some mitigation and buffs. At CN I remember to use Sunburst sometimes to pull the Red Wizards from the edges of the plataform, but with a good team, CW's like my Astral Shield and Divine Glow. (there are clerics in the community who enjoy healing and preveting their team from taking damage and readily heal them so they don't use so much potions);
-Redesign some Tier Sets and make them more competitive with High Prophet...I like the set, but I must admit, this set is making pressure in the whole DC community, experienced players from other classes simply force us to use it. For instance if a Cleric wants to use Miracle Healer, alot of those players will refuse them even if that cleric offers all other buffs (Divine Glow, Hallowed Ground, Blessing of Battle (if AC), LS...etc)
Can't remember anything else right now, but thank you for reading and please bear in mind that these are mere suggections, I am not trying to offend/discredit anyone's playingstyle and the powers they like/use.
Thank you for reading,
Almondum.
Overall opinions:
I am not good in making big texts short, but I will try.
Some clerics seem to be quite knowlegble about their class and mention that we are quite powerful and our "effect" grows with the growing allies number. Those people explain that our strong buffing and supportive nature, makes it hard for the DEVs to strengthen the class.
Other people explain that our heals in PVP and defenses are not enogh to resist the majority of our foes, that we die too quickly.
The requirements to progress in the PVP Campaign were mentioned to be too hard for clerics to complete and compete with other classes. The current leaderboard results are also mentioned as an evidence of our weakness in PVP. Some people also mention that it is not working correctly (Maybe you should fix this?!). Requirements like "triple kills" is reported as being too hard for our class to achive.
Also someone reported that Tenacity is not working correctly with Prones. If it's broken, fixing it would actually help our class to better benefit from our PVP gear.
Players wish to see the classic D&D Battle Cleric/Warpriest using a Mace and a Shield;
Some people mentioned that Rightiousness should be removed;
Other fellow clerics defend that All classes should be needed and that Guardian Fighters and Cleric should be important as a Control Wizard or a Great Weapon Fighter. One of the arguments for this change is the game's sustainability, so all classes would exists and prevail in decent numbers though time.
Feedback regarding our low population of active players has been provided. Some players made a new cleric just to get the artifact, but are not interested in the class itself.
Devouted Cleric as a class only appears at deeper PVP rankings and in low numbers per page, it is very hard for our class to compete with others and reach the top.
Devouted Cleric's Feats in general are reffered to be much less powerful and useful than of other classes.
If I mentioned something wrong, please citate it and I will correct it. I don't meant to offend anyone.
Edit1: 05/20/2014
Edit2: 31/05/2014
Edit3: 13/06/2014
I would like to share some suggections for our class. I am not a hardcore player, I started durig open BETA and have been playing since.
For me our class is mainly a support class with good healing capabilities. We were made to fill our team weaknesses, being that healing when the team lacks control, or boost when the team needs to be faster.
I don't see our class as a major damaging class, it is not in the nature of the Devouted Cleric, our nature is to help and bolster our team, not to do pure damage. My suggections have this in mind, and I don't intend to say that a DC should not be able to damage enemies in PVP, I'm saying that a DC should never do more damage in PVP than a Pure Damaging class like TR or GWF of same gear and skill.
Here you go:
-Fix our Armor Penetration for us (all our damaging powers), this is one of the major problems for us to be able to do decent damage in PVP. Not all skills have Arpen fixed, please finish it;(Alot of people seem to agree on this as an urgent issue to be fixed, for the sake of all classes)
- Fix Linked Spirit triggering from Astral Shield and other healing spells (It does not work, it shows the icon, but gives NO ratings) Astral Shield is one of our "signature" skills, it must work to it's full potential...just like a CW's Arcane Singularity. Alot of people mentioned that this is indeed an urgent matter needing DEV's attention
- Fix Chains of Blazing Light (this spells does not work sometimes when you put it on ground, it does not trigger when an enemy stands on it - this happens on both versions of the spell normal&Divine modes)
- Remake some of our powers to make them more attractive&effective/viable. Exemples of some changes:
*Bastion of Health: this spell heals well, but it's cooldown is too long for most of the fights. Maybe reducing slightly reducing it's healing potential would allow you to reduce it's cooldown? This spell is good as it allows you to heal 5 people at same time trigger Linked Spirit at it's maximum (25% rating bonus). Astral Shield's LS is broken unfortunatly and Sunburst requires us to knockback the mobs.....
*Guardian of Faith: this spell is the only daily that gives Instant Healing. As a Daily I think it deserves a more Powerful Heal.
*Forgemaster's Flame: this is our strongest heal in-game. Our problem is that we can't rely on it in PVP for exemple, a smart enemy will move away to negate the healing from it. I suggest that this power should give a short direct HoT(healing over time) on allies around the target which was hit, rather than being a "moving AOE heal". (Some people like it as it is, and disagree here)
- Remake/Remove + Insert New Feats: Some of our feats are close to useless, we have some of the worst feats in-game:
* Domain Synergy: This spell requires a paramount values of recovery to be effective...+ diminushing return.
I sense that your goal was to allow us stack less recovery. So I think you should change this feat in the following way:
"Domain Synergy: Your Powers Recharge - 0,4/0,8/1,2/1,6/2% faster" (I am not good in maths, the % values is upto you to define, I needed to give an example.
* Initiate of Faith: 1% of our Power becomes Crit. 1% of 5.000 power = 50.....1% of 10.000 = 100...well I am not sure that to say...this is just ..nothing. I suspect that your goal was to allow us to increase our crude healing while retaining some of our "burst" capacity. Maybe increasing the % of the feat will help?
*Linked Spirit: I must refer this again as this is a very important feat for us, please FIX it!
*Enduring Releaf: This game has a very fast paced combat, I think 3 seconds is too short for us to make this feat viable. Maybe increasing the buff time of this feat will help.
*Soverein Justice: The healing of this feat is simply too small, it's just not viable. Please increase it's healing to normal/viable levels.
- Make cleric's support count in PvP instead of being a burden. Alot of other players think that they "carry" us to victory. Most of us try/are forced to be "tanks with light heals" to hold bases and buy time, as our healing spells are weak and our support is not enogh. Exemple: 2 TR's can burn down a DC and CW (with same gear, skill, etc). Even if the DC puts a AS+HG+HW+SL+ (cw teleports )...it is not enogh....it is very hard to support our fellows. This one is abit tricky to count, but here it goes: the opinions are controversial. Some people say that we are not balanced enogh, that we lack strong self-heals; other people mention that it's all about the "skill" and setup. Also, some people mentioned that a Support "counter" would help cleric's to be acknowlegde for their supportive nature. Also, someone mentioned that we're not just base holders, we actually interrupt and disrupt the other team tactics
-Allow DC to ressurect people in PVE, we are clerics after all, and if PvP is a holdback here, I am sure you can turn off this Power in PvP, might take abit more work programming though. I didn't check the D&D version on which Neverwinter is based, so please forgive me if this suggection is not compatible. Some people mentioned the potential of this suggection to ruin the game mechanics, and also the cost of this skill from the D&D version on whitch this game is based.
-Design fights where healing and mitigation is more important than Bolstering the Team's DPS. At Castle Never and Valindra the DPS beats the bosses. CN requires more coordination from CW's, but from the DC what is required mostly is to offer some mitigation and buffs. At CN I remember to use Sunburst sometimes to pull the Red Wizards from the edges of the plataform, but with a good team, CW's like my Astral Shield and Divine Glow. (there are clerics in the community who enjoy healing and preveting their team from taking damage and readily heal them so they don't use so much potions);
-Redesign some Tier Sets and make them more competitive with High Prophet...I like the set, but I must admit, this set is making pressure in the whole DC community, experienced players from other classes simply force us to use it. For instance if a Cleric wants to use Miracle Healer, alot of those players will refuse them even if that cleric offers all other buffs (Divine Glow, Hallowed Ground, Blessing of Battle (if AC), LS...etc)
Can't remember anything else right now, but thank you for reading and please bear in mind that these are mere suggections, I am not trying to offend/discredit anyone's playingstyle and the powers they like/use.
Thank you for reading,
Almondum.
Overall opinions:
I am not good in making big texts short, but I will try.
Some clerics seem to be quite knowlegble about their class and mention that we are quite powerful and our "effect" grows with the growing allies number. Those people explain that our strong buffing and supportive nature, makes it hard for the DEVs to strengthen the class.
Other people explain that our heals in PVP and defenses are not enogh to resist the majority of our foes, that we die too quickly.
The requirements to progress in the PVP Campaign were mentioned to be too hard for clerics to complete and compete with other classes. The current leaderboard results are also mentioned as an evidence of our weakness in PVP. Some people also mention that it is not working correctly (Maybe you should fix this?!). Requirements like "triple kills" is reported as being too hard for our class to achive.
Also someone reported that Tenacity is not working correctly with Prones. If it's broken, fixing it would actually help our class to better benefit from our PVP gear.
Players wish to see the classic D&D Battle Cleric/Warpriest using a Mace and a Shield;
Some people mentioned that Rightiousness should be removed;
Other fellow clerics defend that All classes should be needed and that Guardian Fighters and Cleric should be important as a Control Wizard or a Great Weapon Fighter. One of the arguments for this change is the game's sustainability, so all classes would exists and prevail in decent numbers though time.
Feedback regarding our low population of active players has been provided. Some players made a new cleric just to get the artifact, but are not interested in the class itself.
Devouted Cleric as a class only appears at deeper PVP rankings and in low numbers per page, it is very hard for our class to compete with others and reach the top.
Devouted Cleric's Feats in general are reffered to be much less powerful and useful than of other classes.
If I mentioned something wrong, please citate it and I will correct it. I don't meant to offend anyone.
Post edited by almondum on
0
Comments
This is just a matter of players not knowing the value of a good DC. The example is not a good one though, since permastealth TRs with Bilethorn are broken atm. This also doesn't take into account other possible changes in MOD3, so fixing this shouldn't be a priority.
It has been implied that people are looking into ways to reward players who defend/contest bases instead of just capping them.
Giving DCs resurrection would imbalance the game. Also, resurrection in general is no easy feat. If it was, clerics in D&D would be resurrecting people all the time. Raise dead, the low level/simpler version of resurrection, has several disadvantages which is why it's better off left to NPCs or the clerics responsible for raising us near campfires whenever we wipe. Do you know that the Raise Dead spell is a ritual that requires the caster to spend 500 gold? Yes, that's for this version (4th ED).
Healing and mitigation are more important than bolstering the team's DPS. The problem is that once people become more geared several classes get enough healing/mitigation from gear alone, and so raising DPS becomes a priority. The only solution to this is make fights harder in general, or introduce a harder mode than Epic. (If you checked with mod3, it seems the devs have come to the same conclusion and are introducing more difficult versions of certain fights)
See above. HP is in demand mainly because many people don't require that much healing/mitigation anymore.
the guy who repplied to this should be a tard, trying to say that DCs arent underpowered, everything on DCs are broken,on pve AS got nerfed, it heals urself by half. Exp: before m3 i used to heal myself for 500-600s on pve and 250s on pvp, after patch AS heal for 250s on pve and 100s on pvp, they keep adding armor with useless stat for dcs(pvp), like deflection, defelction doesnt work properly if its less than 30%, and even if u reach 30% u are sacrificing so much defense or hp, they have no cc skills so on pvp they will fall really easy to every class since all of them got stuns, ccs abilities, they stats are messed for pvp, even with 27 wisdowm, that should reduce cc by 17% u still die easy, as he said 2 good dps can take u down really easy, it takes forever to solo dailies and quest if u are support, its a bit slow even if u are dps, in pvp u can find GWF, GFs,CWS with 35k+ hps(for cws and trs) and 45khp(for gwfs and gfs) with 9k attack and they have decent defense crit and arp, while if u try to go defense/hp as a DC u hardly can get to 35k with 8k attack which is useless since ur astral shield+heals will do nothing, healing word which is the strongest healing skill heals nothing, u can eve compare tanky ability on pvp, a 16k+ DC tank the same as a 12k GWF lol, the class itself its really broken
DCs do have problems and atm some class powers/feats are wayyy too powerful but you, sir, are an idiot.
I wrote this thread for a constructive argumentation and ideais. I understand that both of you felt offended by each other, but please if you can, let's keep this peaceful. I don't want to get this thread locked.
Thank you very much,
Have fun.
P.S. My goal is to see what other clerics think about some of the suggections and comment/change them. So the Devs have something to think about.
I just switched my build from healing (the middle tree) to defense/debuff (the bottom tree) and I can see my survivability against parties with 14k or less gs increased noticeably, but I am never able to survive a good dps with similar gs as me (~15.4k) or kill anyone when soloing. Our heals are nerfed to the ground, tenacity does not seem to do much to prones (I really want to run away every time I see a gwf rushing toward me), chain is bugged, AP doesn't work, LS doesn't proc, both damages and heals from dailies are minimal, pvp not rewarding supporting classes, etc...
That is my DC. I also play CW (14.3kgs) and TR (12.9kgs). My TR trolls the hell out of the other team, which is tons of fun to play. I even thought of switching all my enchants to my TR to make it my main, but emotionally I couldn't... I play dps in every game, but I was absolutely fascinated by the DC in D&D. It is such a versatile class that does not just sit back in the shades and spam the healing button but can really carry the team with its HoT, buff/debuff, and minor control/aoes. However, DC has become more like a flower in a vase that is just there but does practically nothing.
Many classes in this game are or were broken. HV set for CWs used to be able to bring Draco down in seconds, GWF can prone people to death while they stand their in full health, TR can perma stealth, HR split shot used to be overpowering. GFs and DCs are also broken, but in the negative sense - they have always been underpowered. As many players mentioned, dungeon runs do not even need GFs and DCs. On top of that, the DC has received several rounds of nerfs and minimal fixes. If a class cannot kill anyone AND cannot survive anyone, what is the point of creating such an apparently inferior class? Lets all roll GWFs and be the champion of both pvp and pve, perhaps a CW for the debuff and crowd control.
Anyways, I love the DC class for its mechanisms and I hope it gets fixed some day. Our stat on people rolling new characters already shows that DCs are the least welcome class to new NW gamers. Please do something to let DC lovers continue loving this class...
You'll notice that the game no longer automatically tries to find you a DC/GF for skirmishes anymore.
The DC's main claim to power has always been its buffs. Some people seem to be stressing the importance of debuffs these days, and generally that's not a bad thing, but the fact of the matter is that the CW is undisputed lord of debuffs and our debuffs pale in comparison to any good CW's. Against bosses our debuffs are even inferior to a good TR's. So if you were looking for a class that gave you results you could easily measure or see, then the DC is not the class for you. Please do not claim to love the class' mechanics if obviously you don't even know what those mechanics are.
The DC is a leader class. That means that we are multipliers. We are not just healers - healing is more of a side effect of what we do (though we do it very well) since obviously dead people can't finish dungeon runs. Our job is to make dungeon runs smoother and faster than if any other class type was chosen as a fifth member. The class was definitely not designed to do as much damage as a striker or be as tough as tank classes. When you carry around dailies like like Hallowed Ground which gives everyone +15% more damage/mitigation (FYI, that's equivalent to giving everyone, depending on crit rate, possibly the DPS equivalent of slotting Perfect Vorpal + Astral Shield mitigation) then you have to be inferior to other classes in some way to remain balanced. Our ability to affect other classes' DPS/survivability significantly is what makes us dangerous. It doesn't really matter if other players can't actually see your contribution, as long as there are good clerics aware of this fact then the meta will change over time.
That said, clerics do have competent DPS and survivability so if you're doing badly at both you're doing something very wrong.
Survival in PvP is as much skill-based as gear-based. Relying on just your gear will definitely not save you against any competent Destroyer GWF/CW, perhaps unless you are fully specced for survivability (ie, a tanky cleric).
Atm we have our issues (several are mentioned here) but we are definitely not broken.
Leaderboard says otherwise. There are few dc in the first hundreds positions, and all with a kill/death ratio always << 1.
Other classes are farming us in pvp.
KDR < 1 is natural since given the choice between attacking just for damage and support a good DC always, always prioritizes support. If you can do both at the same time then all the better. The fact that DoTs don't benefit form ArP also plays a factor here, though MoF CWs are pretty much in the same boat.
Few people also understand the DC as a class or know the potential of each and every power or the importance of certain stats. Consider that many DCs are struggling with just the IWD dailies, even though DCs should be able to do these dailies easily (see Kaelac's post, other DCs' posts on how to easily beat IWD non-Heroics). If many DCs are already struggling PvE-wise, were you really expecting their PvP stats to be any better?
It doesn't help that the DC is the rarest class.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
I have to admire the sheer doggedness in your ongoing attempts to promote the DC.
It seems that whenever the class is again hit with the nerf bat and people post their displeasure, sure enough one of your posts arrives.
Now most of us on here are mmo veterans, so there's no need to list all the games we have played over many years. Each of these games is different and has it's own particular class mechanics for the healer/support (insert whatever terminology you want to use) classes.
What this experience does allow, is a broad perception of a particular class's structuring and level of effectiveness. And the general playerbase, despite what some people may think, do suss these things out pretty quickly. A top dps class will soon be populated in a game, similar with the best tank class.
Conversely, a poorly structured class will see it's player popularity rapidly diminish, and if there are other classes for that role you would see a quick shift to them.
Here of course, that option is not available. Players who in the past have enjoyed playing a healer/support role are stuck with the DC.
Now of course people need to structure their skills correctly, have the correct enchantments, gear, items etc etc. Take this out of the topic, it is the same for any class.
Stepping back from the minutiae of the DC and people see the broader picture of an unloved class, with an array of ignored skills, others that are mediocre at best, an armor array that still sees a lower set preferred to higher ones etc etc.
And a continual ignoring of the class deficiencies by the game developers.
When changes do arrive they push the class further down in it's desirability.
"Not for everyone" is not a reasonable answer for a poorly spec'd class. It is just a whitewash statement attempting to cover over the many areas that need revising.
Now understandably, some people have invested so much time and effort into the DC that they feel somehow duty bound to doggedly continue with this, naysaying the mass of evidence to the contrary.
Whilst their determination can be perversely admired, the real danger here is that the devs pick on these isolated King Canute type posts as skewed evidence that the class does not need a major overhaul and has been in need of this for a significant time.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Nice to see other open BETA players still around.
I'm not going to focus on anything PVE since I only PVP now except for the IWD stuff I need to do; it's also been discussed over and over on this forum and many other places.
It would be nice if APen got fixed since it affects other classes and not just the DC, it indeed could help improve DC dps somewhat especially for people who are interested in running DOT based builds. It won't really affect much of what I use but I would still like to see universal issues getting taken care of.
I also agree that we have plenty of crappy/usless powers, but this isn't any different than most other classes so it is what it is. I'm not overly worried about them balancing out all powers blah blah. I view the feats as more of an issue. As you pointed out we have some truly horrendous fetas, especially heroic ones. They're actually so bad you wonder how they were ever created like that since they're obviously completely and uterly usless.
Now on to the PVP issues which are the ones that truly matter, I don't say this to disparage PVE players, but because PVP is where imbalances really come into focus. PVE is just pretty easy overall and once you hit a certain gear threshold it almost becomes automatic.
The only thing you've said that I don't agree at all with is that Cleric support in PVP is a burden and all Clerics have to be carried. If you want to assume all clerics need to be carried because they do subar to minimal dps so be it then but I think that's a very unfair and simplistic way of looking at it.
Sure clerics have our issues but until mod 3 they weren't drastic or glaring imo. We suffered vs certain classes and completely dominated a couple also. I don't even really feel we were directly nerfec in mod 3. It just feels moer like a byproduct of the other changes that were made. HR's got nerfed hard, too hard imo, but then GWF's and TR's got nerfed yet actually got better. Tr's didn't change drastically but they do deal more dmg now and the knife fan hits so **** hard, even if they hadn't nerfed SE a lot of rogues still would be using the knife fan daily, especially vs >1 targets. The power rework really helped them out. GWF's were supposed to get their dmg nerfed by changing deep gash and student of the sword. Instead they just made it so all GWF's switched to Destro and now hit more than 2x as hard even though they're slightly less tanky. Granted they can't take people on in the same way they used to but I almost was killed by a single rotation from a GWF the other day, that shouldn't happen. Give a good GWF some cleric support now and it's even more imba than it was pre mod 3 due simply to how much dmg they do, they don't need to survive nearly as long now because they just crush everything.
Adressing some of your other worries about cleric PVP: yes our heals our weak, but they were never strong, they actually heal allies a little bit more these days, although I'd probably prefer being able to heal myself more. We have amazing support though so I'm not sure what you're on about there. In regards to the 2x tr vs DC/CW, sure they could probably eventually kill both of you but it wont be fast and that's also a terrible match up. First they'll focus down the CW who you can't sustain and then they'll drop you, but that's because they're 2x TR and the CW isn't going to be able to put much dmg into them. If you're going against classes the CW could control and dmg then things would change, or if you were with a more tanky class. I think they way you describe the situation leads into the fact that it sounds to me like maybe you play your cleric wrong. I say this because you refer to primarily to defending basses etc. Clerics are not node defends, you can help defend a node with other people if they need help, but primarily your job is to roam around the map healing up allies, interceptin enemies who are trying to run to nodes, helping cap nodes and rotating to counter the other teams movements.
I expect to see IBS nerfed pretty hard soon, it's out of control atm with the feat and power boost. I'd expect to see takedown tweaked also. TR's are going to be an ongoing problem imo because it's the core mechanic that's the real issue, so without changing that the only way to reduce their effectivness is to reduce their dmg and then you quickly run into the issue that you make them usless if you continue down that road. Path of Blades can also crit now.
To sum things up. Do I feel weaker now in mod 3? Yes slightly but I think it's primarily due to changes to other classes, or global changes which have made already strong classes even stronger.
Bottomline is that the reason why the devs seem so touchy about buffing the cleric (though I'm not really sure why they haven't fixed the bugs) is because it is a class that grows more powerful the more allies it has around it. And that growth is significant - as I already mentioned, we are capable of granting allies the potential equivalent of slotting a Perfect Vorpal enchantment. And contrary to what many people seem to be saying, there are skilled clerics who are very good at either dealing decent damage or surviving extreme punishment even while supporting in PvP.
All clerics are like this. No cleric worth the name skips Hallowed Ground.
This is why, as you will realize if you think hard enough about it, the devs always seem to take the roundabout method when it comes it balancing DCs - their usual approach is to "balance" other classes first. When they nerfed Astral Shield, for example, they also made it possible for just about any other classes to out-aggro us. When they neutered rogues, they also "balanced" Hammer of Fate. Notice how uncharacteristic this is considering how when they attempted to balance the HR - the class that grows more powerful the less enemies it has around it/are aware of it - they simply tweaked the damage output/mechanic of certain powers. That's it. They're still at it, apparently.
Obviously the former approach can backfire, hence our PvP problems in mod2/mod3. Kaelac's post already addresses PvE.
I'm pretty sure the reason why the devs decided to add Anointed Champion as a paragon path for DCs was because people kept crying for an actual healer/support type cleric. Apparently there's just no pleasing some people.
Your roundabout approach of trying to tell me that I'm blind to the "actual" state of the class is noted. You are incorrect in assuming that the reason I am defending the class is because I have invested too much time in it, though. It is one of my mains, correct - one of many. At the last count I have at least 3 of each class, and half of my toons have FotM builds. So when I compare DCs to what I think are truly broken (OP and UP) builds, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
You people make it sound like we're in the same boat as all GFs except for 1 or 2 specific builds atm.
Not. Even. Close.
Also, you say clerics are very powerful, yet even people whose main characters are not DCs acknowledge the disadvantages of this very class as the requirements for progressing through mod 3 came out. According to your logic, DCs' powerfulness is like the emperor's new clothes, if you can't see it, you are stupid -_-
Go finish your pvp campaign and put your toon in the first page of the leader board, then come lecture us. In the mean time, readers are just gonna facepalm when they read your posts.
biibiisai - I completely agree, but think you are banging your head against a wall in trying to convince someone so one eyed in their perception of the DC that the devs could halve all the class's outputs and we'd still see a post saying it was the right thing to do.
Said my piece further up, not going to add more to that - there's enough there for the devs to go on. That's it.
However there is another approach to the DC you can take:
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
So I went back and read your post. I get more and more confused... ok... DCs are practically not needed so now everyone is asking for CWs and GWFs. You say this is intended.
DCs' debuffs are inferior to CWs' and even TRs'. ok... DCs' debuffs are bad too.
DCs' healings are just "side effects" as you mentioned. Sometimes other classes with heavy damage and life steal can out heal us. So DCs' healings don't do much either.
Above. Now you have said that DCs' healings and buffs are nothing and the class itself is not needed any more.
Surprisingly, your last paragraph started to talk about how awesome this class is. Am I missing something? Apparently I am! So we are not buffers or debuffers now. We got a new and much more glorified name, multipliers!! Sorry, allow me to correct myself. Hmmm! MULTIPLIERS!! We have HG that gives people "+15% more damage/mitigation"! Great! We are actually doing something. But! Remember, people! This is not buffing, debuffing, or healing, this is multiplying! Or rather, if you prefer the longer version, "Our ability to affect other classes' DPS/survivability significantly". Because we are so powerful, we can't scare other people by doing visible contributions. If we are too noticeable, we could get even further nerfs. Thank god our chains, linked spirit, and other features are not working, or we will be dominating NW! Everyone, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... Let's just continue with our invisible contributions and pray that nobody will notice how powerful we actually are.
"But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'm contradicting myself! O_O I first mentioned that DCs have mediocre healing, inferior buffs and debuffs, and that they are not actually needed in a group. Then, I said that they are in fact a very powerful and dangerous class in NW... I'm so confused... Maybe I'm getting HAMSTER from grinding for a position in the first 10 pages of the leaderboard as a DC..."
LOL! lyaise!
If you read my next post, you would see that I actually went through such a process. Now I'm in a very much entertained mood. Thanks for the fun pic
I'm not opposing what you say, but maybe.. just MAYBE.. people have been seeing thru the damaging capability instead of its supportive capability.. Y'know, since our mitigations and buffs doesnt really show in the board, so our contributions are mostly 'invisible'.
I am not cleric expert, but I kinda get what tyr's trying to say, in a 1v1 performance we might not do as well as other class, but when we actually support others, that's where our class shine... Our usefulness depends HEAVILY on our other group members.. (again, maybe this is the major reason cleric will never outshine others.. since it is our role to 'support'.)
What made me sick to my stomach tho.. the attitude of some people with low knowledge of DC, talking trash to us just because of our low kills in a match. Our class is truly a thankless job.. You really need to be 'devoted' to play this class.
But in doing so we are nerfing our already small heals to hell. But our strength is in damage mitigation, they say. But then again our mitigation skills are aoe. A semi competent enemy party will make you fight out of AS or HG. Or a tank will bull rush you out of these. And no, FS just doesn't cut it.
I don't see how you can say everything is fine just because you have found a way to stay alive longer, doing nothing beside running around a node, spamming tiny heals and see all your mitigation being negated by competent enemies.
And the leaderboard speaks volumes about our position in the food chain.
Sorry for my english.
It's just...a shame.
I haven't seen many people saying the class is just fine, it's obviously not, like just about every class in this game, it's just not usless by any means like a lot of people think. I mean I read some of these posts and I wonder is the poster actually plays a cleric or not? Or maybe they play their cleric but they have no idea how to use it, that happens a lot and unfortunately most of those people are unwilling to learn better builds, mechanics and to adapt to the meta. Like biibiisai above, he just says we're terrible at everything but provides no justification. We apparently don't buff we just affect peoples dmg and survivability, wait...isn't that what buffing is? He's disparaging our "invisible" contribution, but why? Just because you don't see some number to quantitaviely show you how much you contributed it suddenly doesn't count? I mean seriously if all you care a bout is the big numbers why would you ever choose a support class?
You suggest stacking deflect for a pvp build, but no cleric who's worth his salt stacks deflect for any reason at all. That doesn't mean I don't see a ton of clerics running around in grim/profound armor with 2500 deflect. I mean hey if that's how you want to play, so be it, you just shouldn't complain afterwards that you can't stay alive. I also don't see any issue with putting your points in Con/Dex for pvp purposes. Even though you seem to view this disparaginly we're hardly the only class that does it and in the vast majority of mmo style games pvp has always been centered around stacking defensive stats for survivability.
Since you referance FS you're obviously DO which is yet again not conducive to PVP, at least for staying alive. How exactly are people going to make you fight outside you're AS or HG? I can't think of any way for them to do that, sure you can be knocked out of the area (primarily AS it's pretty hard to get knocked out of the HG area) by a GF like you said, or maybe a DC using SB or even a CW using repulse (only bad CW's do this though) but you just shift back in. It would be interesting if they changed AS to be an area centered on yourself that moves with you, would add to our strategic movement and placement in battles which fits inline with the class description.
In case you havent noticed, which you obviously haven't, the leaderboard is incredibly broken in the way it scores. You primarily get points for capping and defending points, a littl bit for kills and it doesn't seem to even care if you win or lose the match. I'm not sure how they decided this was a good scoring system for a ladder but it is what it is.
I think it also takes into account if you're a premade and if the other team is a pug or what not, along with your leaderboard scores. In principile I think this makes sense and is a good idea but in practice it's terrible because the matchmaking system doesn't match premades vs premades nor does it match people with similar gearscores or ranking or anything.
On a side note, I now think the most drastic nerf this patch has been the 8s you have to wait after exiting combat to be able to mount. Granted this affects all classes but it's really limited my usefulness since I need to move around so much. It often times takes more time to exit combat and mount up than I actually spend at a node doing anything
It wasn't really added. It was there since the very begining, Domination at least. If there was no PVP most of the top players in the game wouldn't be plaing and cryptic wouldn't be making any money. If anything they should be adressing PVP issues even more than they already are.
I honestly don't know what PVE people have to complain about other than the usual issues that affect all DC's. I guess the most glaring one is AS not proccing LS. Yeah it's a bummer and should get fixed, since It doesn't sound like a hard thing to fix, but it's hardly the end of the world it's not a feat you have to have to be able to clear any content. The only major change to clerics that affected PVE was back in the day when they made it so you couldn't keep 100% uptime on AS, which is completely reasonable and actually ended up making the class way better in the long run. The only other thing to really view as being a nerf was the removal of the cast-tab on SB allowing you to proc LS without actually casting in divine and if they fixed AS so it would proc it then this would be a non issue.
I don't think there was ever an intention that these classes not be balanced, but all classes are not equal of course, it doesn't make sense that every single class is going to be able to kill and absorb dmg on the same level. Each class needs to have it's strenghts, weaknesses and favorable/unfavorable match ups. If all the classes are the same then there's really no reason to play any one class except for the playstyle or the visual skins etc. The next major patch is supposed to be the class balance patch so I'll be interested to see what actually gets done with that.
15 seconds every 2 minutes of HG don't make or break any match. AS is a small circle, given the dynamic nature of pvp, is really hard to stay into the circle for too long. And AS won't save you against an equal geared gwf or tr, even with high tenacity. Our HW? Ever try to stay alive with just HW on you? FF maybe? Ohh look you enemy just get away from you till it wear off (and now heals you 40% less). FS? 11% mitigation? Annointed armor maybe? Or BtS? So what's left that you use and we other clerics don't know about? Maybe a ****load of defensive stats, rolling dex/con, choosing the right race, using a defensive build and in doing so nerf our already tiny heals to the ground as I have stated before?
But what if I don't want to be a punching ball, but actually heal myself and other player?
I want to make my heals strong enough to keep me alive, and keep my teammates alive. Not the joke that are now.
And as I said in another post, I'm a paying customer, I have every right to complain about the meta they have forced on us, at least in pvp. And belive I understand how the class work, even better than you maybe. But I don't like as it is now.
Sorry again for my bad english
By some of you're comments I kidna doubt you know more about this class than I do. But maybe you do, the fact is it's not really that important. I'm just saying that the cleric is a lot more viable and powerful than most people on here seem to realize. I've tried explaining over and over why this is and how you can set up and play your cleric to have a more enjoyable experience (in my opinion) and to help contribute more to your team. Mostly I just get QQ and grief as responses or people telling me I'm completely wrong when that's clearly not the case since all this comes from in game experience playing the class.
I've played since open Beta. I started my Cleric then (I only have one) and I've played it ever since. I rolled a GWF for an alt before mod 3 so I would have access to the class artifacts but I spend most of my time on my Cleric. It's a half-elf and was originally set up as more of a PVE character. I've changed it around a bit for PVP but of course my initial rolls stayed the same, which are not bad, but not ideal for PVP (as mentioned I'm not a halfling) by any means. Yes I have all my points in Con/Dex although I wonder about the usefulness of Dex sometimes. I can only hit 15 Dex with campfire buff and that only provides an extra 2.5% deflect chance. It does provide aoe dmg resist though which is decently useful, sometimes I wonder though if those points may not be more useful somewhere else. Either way it's ok for the moment.
Firstly, I don't know what gear your using, how geared you are, what level enchants, etc. Obviously the less geared you are the more likely you end up against people who significantly outgear you and this obviously leads to getting stomped more often than not. there's really not much you can do against people with significantly better gear, if you have a good team and you work together and use good tactis you can win matches against better geared players but this doesn't neccesarily mean you won't die 15 times in that match.
I understand not everybody likes the mechanics of the class or the playstyle etc. But why force and issue that clearly doesn't work? If you don't like how the class plays play another class, if you don't like other classes then maybe this isn't the right game....In any game I've ever palyed there is a meta that develops and you need to adapt to the meta even if it's not ideally what you want to do, if you don't you tend to have a worsened experience. I don't think I've played any game where you can just set up your char any old way you want and expect it to be useful and viable.
It really takes you 2 min to get HG up? That's oftly slow. I'm not sure how long my daily takes to come up exactly but it doesn't feel very slow. These days I'm probably casting about 2 Guardian of Faith for every time I end up using a HG. The reason for this is that Guardian of Faith provides an AOE heal which is great for sustaining multiple party members and the fact that HG is kind of a waste if I just drop it for people who are 1 v 1 on the end points. I usually only drop it at mid or if there's a big battle going on at one of the end cap points. Also, since HG disapears when I die it's usless if my daily pops while I'm at low HP, in that case Guardian of Faith also becomes more useful as a sustain since it will directly heal me. Additionally Guardian of Faith has a prone effect which is often times all I need in order to facilitate a kill for an ally and hence clear a node, etc. I've found Guardian of Faith to be incredibly versitile for PVP. I just never used it for a long time since I'd never had any use for it in PVE back in the day.
Sure AS is a smallish circle, but when you throw it down you may notice your allies tend to stay in it, or at least most of the time. Just because AS is down doesn't mean you can't run out of it or dodge out to avoid dmg etc. You should if it's going to help you. Often times I'll drop and AS then nobody bothers to attack me so I just step out of AS since I'm not taking dmg anyways and I can position myself farther away from enemies and more strategically to help my allies. If somebody comes after me just dodge away or go back to AS. The way PVP works with the cap nodes you're ideally always fighting on nodes, at least the other teams nodes so you have no reason to be moving around so much, the size of the node is pretty much where you should be most of the time. If you control the point then you can simply run off node and try to make the enemy follow you if you wish or intercept them before they get there allowing you to get a few more points. If the enemy is smart they won't follow you off node and they will run there after you intercept them, in this case your back to the same thing of fighting on the node again.
I'm not a DO anymore, I was for a long times when I did more PVE and when the PVP patch came out I did PVP as a DO for a while. It was decently fun, I killed a lot mroe and could kite quite well but eventually I got tired of being so squishy and wanted to help my team more. Therefore the switch to AC. In my opinion the longer you can survive with your cleric the more useful you can be to your team. So yes I'm pretty much as tanky as I can get and no I don't view this as a bad thing. I already explained why this is and how it's standart in most MMO PVP.
I run HW/AS/Exalt with BoB/ASeal as my at-wills Guardian of Faith/HG as my dailys and Anointed Armor and Divine Fortune for my clas features. I use MH armor set which is really the key to this whole thing. The only viable way to sustain myself well is with MH i've found. I stack HP and Regen and pretty much ignore deflect. I have something like 700 deflect total which along with other bonuses to deflec % leave me around 15-16% deflect which isn't very much really, so I pretty much don't care about this stat too much. HW heals allies decently and myself not very much, but with it's 3 ticks I proc MH set bonus all the time plus my other two encounters. Exaltation is of course amazing since it's a very nice buff, provides a decent heal actually and obviously it's true power is in the immunity bubbble when cast from divine mode. Put all that together and I can stay alive very well, even with only 14% damage reduction from Tenacity (I have low tenacity around 400 I think, maybe less). My heals may not be amazing but with all the DR I can put out plus my ability to straight up avoid dmg I can do quite well for both healing my allies and myself. I can show up where there's an almost dead ally and in under 10s have him almost full HP. Of course he has to do his part too which means not being super squishy and avoiding dmg as much as possible. Keeping squishy people up is impossible in this game especially against multiple opponents, the same could be said for the people who just want to face tank. I tend to ignore these people in favor of healing other allies if I have the option too.
Disclaimer: All this info is based on PVP Domination, this won't translate over exactly to open world PVP. It is more or less the same for GG although with mroe people and more zerg tactis things do change somewhat also.
With all that said, as a Cleric you are reliant on your team, for good or bad. Also, it's not enuogh to simply have the gear and right spell set up. You still need to understand tactics, how PVP works, how to rotate and win, the strenghts of your class and it's weakness (you shouldn't be acting as a node holder normally nor should you be fighting people by yourself when possible) you need to understand every other class, what their rotation is, how they play and move, what they're purpose is in pvp, etc. there are a lot of factors that go into it and ultimately doing well has a lot to do with understanding this, if you want to have an enjoyable time. Maybe you wan't to play you're cleric a certain way, if this is the case you need to think about that and then set him up accordingly. It won't be ideal by any means but if it's what you want to do then you can do it. A lot of this you learn simply from playing, over and over, facing different classes in different situations. Being in parties with different group compositions, etc. Often times you can learn a lot from a less especially if it's a close game. I'd say also remember it's not always the other guys fault, most people just rage and blame other in pvp when it's clear they have little to no idea what they're doing.
I'm more than willing to expound more info about the cleric in PVP. Anybody who wants to discuss any topics in particular, ask questions, talk about the meta, etc, etc is more than willing to hit me up. I've just gotten tired to some extent of people who don't know what they're talking about spouting off about nothing and making these vast generalizations that don't make sense nor do they directly apply to many players.
You keep talking as what you do or how you play is special. Every cleric has come to the same conclusions as you. But for some of us this is not enough and surely is not fun.
I too play from beta. I have every possbile set. I used 6 legendary artifacts. I'm full rank 9/10 and used every perfect enchantment in game. So I know a thing or two about clerics. And I'm a min/maxer, I like the math aspect of these games.
That said, this cleric is boring as hell, but as I said, I like to HEAL. Not just spam 3 skills, run from enemies, or just facetank them in my fully defensive build.
The fact that you enjoy this meta, don't give you any right to say that all is fine and we have just l2p. And there is no skill involved in staking deflect or regen or whatever or using a FotM defensive build.
I can be wrong but I don't belive you do so well if you play as you say. Not with healing depression and low tenacity. I think a 15k gwf or tr or hr would eat you for breakfast.
Ok so if you've tried all this out I don't see how you could not of had any sucess. It's another thing if you don't enjoy it. In that case you should probably play a diferent class, a diferent game or maybe take a hiatus until the class balance patch. Although I doubt they're going to completely change how a class functions. Maybe they'll add other paragorn paths though and maybe an offensively oriented cleric more viable or something like that. I can't really speak to what exactly is going to happen.
You can't face tank no matter how defensively set up you are, unless your opponent is way undergeared, you have to use your shift and exalt to avoid dmg no matter what. Even though this game is really a MMO the combat is essentialy ARPG style therefore the limited number of active spells and habilities, that won't be changing.
I most certainly haven't said everything is fine. I simply have a pretty objective view on what's going on and how we fit in the big picture, how we can be very powerful when combined properly with other players who compliment us and vice versa. I don't find the current meta the most amazing thing atm. It is much better than it was at one time, mod 3 has gotten worse but I expect some fixes in the near future which will make things somewhat better again. I've talked about a series of challenges and issues, currently facing the Cleric, in this thread; and much more extensively in other threads. Just because you choose to ignore this doesn't mean I'm not aware of the problems and how they could be fixed/improved. I haven't told anybody l2p or anything, I pretty much tell everybody that they're free to do whatever they want and if it works and makes them happy then great. But a lot of people come on here complaining and crying about how they have no success blah blah. In that case I make sugestions based on my knowledge and experience in the game, things that have worked for me and that I know first hand are valid. Weather they wish to follow my advice is on thing or another but people who refuse to change their set up, build, playstyle etc and still complain and poor results are just being pig headed and really HAMSTER me off. If you don't enjoy the playstyle that's one thing, but don't complain that you want to to just come up with some random build off the cuff of your sleeve and expet it to work miracles. There's a meta, like in all games, and you have to adapt to it. It's the plain and simple truth, weather it be brutal or not, players have to adapt to the games they play the game doesn't adapt to you.
If you honestly think there is no skill involved in using a tanky cleric who heals and supports well your simply delusional. I can't just stand there and let people beat on me while I spam heals....that's no skill required. If I did that though I wouldn't last 30s in combat most times.
Honestly I don't understand why you keep using GWF and TR examples. TR is by far the easiest class to go 1 v 1 against with a Cleric. Now in mod 3, since they got their dmg buffed a little, the really well geared ones who play well can actually kill me. Before mod 3 it was almost impossible for a rogue to kill me. I either had to scew up my rotation or he'd have to catch me with a decent burst and then crit me with shocking execution while I had no soulforged up. Against GWF's it's all about timing shifts and exalt bubble. Very few were capable of killing me 1 v 1 before mod 3, and even post mod 3 the sent GWF's can't drop me, the destro ones are another story though.
GWF's went from being unable to kill clerics to be anti clerics in mod3. The classes that truly destroy a cleric in 1 v 1 is the CW, we stand literally no chance. I'm lucky If I can stay alive more than 15-20s vs a good CW. HR's also pretty much do whatever they want to us, although less so now in mod 3 after their nerf. I still get a lot of HR's that just stand around and aim shot me over and over again. That works great when I'm engaged with somebody else but when I'm solo it's a joke, they never do any dmg to me
I agree with you completely, godhric. Many of us see our class as broken because they are under appreciated. NW should be a team game. That is where we shine, as you mentioned.
However, mod 3 made individual achievements the only venue for advancement. So being only devoted is not enough, being devoted and stuck is the direction to go... In pugs, I'm always on 2, while the unappreciating others all go cap the nodes that are not even contested. In the end, I'm at the very bottom of the scoreboard while the other team members with greens and blues all score higher. In premades, DCs are always the first ones to go down, because of our ability to buff/debuff and provide regen. Look at the DCs on the first 10 pages of the leader boards. There are not many of them, and most of them have more deaths than kills. Look at the dps classes then, they have times more kills than deaths. This is technically ok (although still emotionally stressful) when deaths and kills don't matter, but mod 3 asks for double kills, triple kills, and cap points (not hold points). When survivability is an issue, killing is not much of a possibility.
My proposal is that fix all the stuff that are supposed to work for us, make tenacity work with prone, and relief righteousness a little, perhaps 10-15%. At least allow us to survive three rotations from a GWF - all the prones and spike damage. As for the requirements for mod 3, reward those who hold nodes, the reward gets divided by the number of team members on the same node and multiplied by the number of opponents on the same node.
Really? I never said DCs are bad at everything. I just don't understand the previous post and was repeating that post. If you have problems, don't cite my name, cite the previous poster's name.
I edited the original post with some of your opinions. I tried to make a small summary of them. Please correct me if I wrote something wrong.
Thank you.
P.S. I look forward to the prosecution of our constructive discussion about Devouted Cleric's balance in Neverwinter.
Hi almondum, I really appreciate your level headedness. I know you meant to have this thread as a constructive way to collect opinions. I am sorry that I lost my composure. Thank you for compiling everything in the op. There is only one thing that is not exactly what we meant : "The requirements to progress in the Leaderboard were mentioned to be too hard for clerics to complete". It is actually pvp campaign, not leaderboard, just a minor typo
Hello biibii, I corrected the typo