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guitarzan698
Member Posts: 384 Arc User
Hello,
I've spent a few days playing some foundry quests... and let's just say I'm a bit disappointed. Although these quests are highly rated, most of those I played are really quite sad. I'm not going into many details, I'll just say that a three year old child can put together better adventures. Just as an example... I started one quest, everything looked good at first... started in a tavern... well thought out design, lots of background stuff to look at... a few npc's around to interact with... then, once I left the village... a blank, open map.. NOTHING on the map.. until I reached the 'dungeon'. The dungeon was not any better. Monsters stacked at every turn... confusing map... nothing in the dungeon to interact with or even look at... just a pre-fab map with a few monsters placed on it. This quest was totally a waste of my time... this quest had lots of plays and it was rated at over 4.4 stars. I'm totally disgusted. I have nothing else to say.
I understand that this company is trying to make money... ok. But, could you please take a look at the broken rating system? When HAMSTER like this gets rated highly, and good, well-built quests get 1-star bombed... there's a problem. Don't we have enough problems with this game already? No bosses, no treasures, no dragons, no 'or' logic, no timers, etc....
I've spent a few days playing some foundry quests... and let's just say I'm a bit disappointed. Although these quests are highly rated, most of those I played are really quite sad. I'm not going into many details, I'll just say that a three year old child can put together better adventures. Just as an example... I started one quest, everything looked good at first... started in a tavern... well thought out design, lots of background stuff to look at... a few npc's around to interact with... then, once I left the village... a blank, open map.. NOTHING on the map.. until I reached the 'dungeon'. The dungeon was not any better. Monsters stacked at every turn... confusing map... nothing in the dungeon to interact with or even look at... just a pre-fab map with a few monsters placed on it. This quest was totally a waste of my time... this quest had lots of plays and it was rated at over 4.4 stars. I'm totally disgusted. I have nothing else to say.
I understand that this company is trying to make money... ok. But, could you please take a look at the broken rating system? When HAMSTER like this gets rated highly, and good, well-built quests get 1-star bombed... there's a problem. Don't we have enough problems with this game already? No bosses, no treasures, no dragons, no 'or' logic, no timers, etc....
Post edited by guitarzan698 on
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it sounds like you actually think that Cryptic made this content, so I challenge you to beat your own drum and go make a foundry quest if you feel that the content is lacking, surely you'll understand how to make content you yourself would rate 4 stars and higher, right?
you can't be a mooch for much longer, people will start to add you to their lists of players never to interact with in game, because you feel that fan-created content is "below" you, and well, that makes you below me.
this has absolutely nothing about PWE/cryptic making any money, there is no monetization of foundry quests, in what way do you believe that PWE sandbags content so that the player "pays" for something related to what you're thinking?
Those who shout the loudest about the "HAMSTER quality" of Foundry quests have the least understanding of how difficult it is to learn and work the Foundry to begin with, much less actually create there what one sees in one's head as far as Quests go. It is crazy hard work to produce any real quality. Most new venturers into the Foundry realize how much hard work it is and often just give-up entirely, or do whatever they can to just finish the darned thing, hence creating said "HAMSTER'.
I've been in neverwinter since Alpha and Beta. I have a total of three quests in my one campaign (as of this writing). There's a *reason" for that. It's really hard work and many hours to create good quality stuff; each of my quests took at least a month or two from conception to completion and they still need a little tweaking here and there. it's only because I'm anal about the quality of my work.
But because I care so much about the quality, I'm not creating "daily-friendly zerger-quests", hence they have very few plays. But at least almost every single rating is a four or five star, which I appreciate more than the number of plays. And I am finding this to be the case: the genuine quality Foundry Quests tend to fall into this paradigm.
So, to the OP: PRO-TIP: Play the Foundry Quests with high rating, but fewer plays (less than 250 or so) that average 20-40 minutes and that's where you'll find the juicy quality ones.
You really should give the foundry system a go first before you comment on the standard of other authors' quests.
I'm aware that 15min farm quest and exploits can easily get to the top of the ratings but I seriously doubt that all the ones you've played are that bad.
Thanks for clarifying, and that's fair. But rather than strike against the rating system, I strike-out at the players who actually rate those ape of [farming] quests so highly. However, there just isn't much that can be done about that. It's a simple rating system that is being exploited by those who only look for the quick-and-dirty fastest way to complete the Rhix Daily Foundry requirement, which is where the problem originates: the very idea of an event to play Foundry Quests for a big reward.
The fastest, simplest fix for this problem would be to entirely eliminate this event, entirely (I know: I used the word "entirely" redundantly, on purpose). It's the one singular reason why many Foundry players even bother playing the Foundry at all. And it's a HAMSTER-poor excuse to do so, which is polluting the pool with the HAMSTER-quests for event-zergers.
Fix number two would be to offer new/different/better rewards for Foundry Quests to give existing players real incentive to actually go in and try Foundry Quests for the content, rather than zerg-farming.
Then, finally, the existing rating system along with tags would eventually correct itself (after a year or more) through attrition, but then work on better searching feature so we each can find the type of quest we each like best.
TL;DR: The origin of HAMSTER-quest pollution in the Foundry pool is the timed Rhix event. Kill that stupid Rhix Foundry event and the boat will begin to right itself. This is the first step that *needs* to be taken to begin reparations of all things Foundry.
If foundry had, say a unique drop table (probably still be PWE/Cryptic controlled) there would be a unique incentive to play content, like the current CTA and special events, having something that can only be found in a foundry quest, and a tiered reward system, like a PWE employee playing the foundry, seeing that the content is 45 minutes of solid play, reward the drop table to tier 2 - meaning that a green companion can now randomly drop from the boss chest (chance, not guaranteed) or a currency similar to the dice in the Respen's event, where if you've played enough foundry quests, you could purchase some unique swag (think tumalmine trade bars).
this would function 2 purposes, give incentive for makers to make quality content (rewards would be available based on the peer-reviewed score and PWE loot tier for the maker), and for players to want to play a good quest that rewards better based on length, quality, and difficulty.
I have to agree you on the most part. alot of quests are bad.
Nearly every quest will just have a map with encounters dropped around at intervals standing there just for you to get through.
Some just give your goal straight away then dump stuff (just monsters) in your way until you get to that point.
There are some good ones though, so be patient and try get through them, its just hard finding them because theres no real foundry review site telling you what to expect and the pros + cons of each foundry.
And as some others said, its free. Foundry authors don't get paid to do this, so you take what you can get.
I also disagree with loot and incentives, people who are looking for them will just look for the most efficient ones. I buy/play games because they are fun and good, I didn't play walking dead because it gave me phat drops for example. And theres just limited tools to put some ideas into practice.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
That's the truth of it. There are so many details that go into making a foundry quest it's kinda mind boggling and its extremely easy to get in over your head and give up. I have nothing but respect for the people who have created these quests on their own. 15 minutes of game play for an average player = days and weeks of creation time for the quest maker....
Ladyhawk - HR
Nighthawk the Pink TR
Oh I see. The foundry reward system is indeed broken.
The developers really overdid the nerf.
The funny thing is exploitation still exists now. Nothing changed.
Just play "Quick Review" campaign, which has god-knows how many versions now, and people can get equipment for their lower level characters without doing anything. Pretty easy way for whoever the author is to get all the foundry achievements too. Easy to make too. Just make a quest with 1 interact objective in Protector's Enclave and duplicate the rest. 5 star campaign lol.
Or play any of those farm quests/exploit quests where the exit portal or NPC or object only appears at the 15 min mark (timers used) to get the diamonds and equipment without doing anything. 5 stars too.
It's sad really.
Checked the "Featured" section in the foundry today, same quests. No change.
I don't know what the developers are doing but their actions and words (that foundry isn't abandoned) don't really match at all.
There's supposed to be new stuff coming in for foundry for Module 3 but what's the point? I spent 1 month and more making a quest, after which I have to beg around in numerous sites and trade reviews with other authors just to get plays. I'm not even talking about reviews, just plays, just other people seeing what you have spent so much effort making.
I know it's supposed to be a labour of love but it just feels so unappreciated and depressing when you spent so much time and effort, and the only person who plays it is you and (if you have friends playing the game) your friends, the really really miniscule minority, and other authors, who trade reviews with you, or just do it out of pity or appreciation for a fellow author.
Removing the Rhix event at this time may do the opposite actually. Though, to be honest, it matters little since most of the quests played now are the shortest 1s that still grant 1000 AD each.
So, if it gets removed, the vast majority of the foundry players will just go for <15mins 1s or just don't play at all since doing 3 official "kill X Ys or gather X Zs" quests in the same area will probably give the same or more exp and more rewards than any foundry quests with lesser time spent.
The minority who are playing the foundry quests for the story now will still continue the same action either way, except that now they really don't get anything at all.
Right now, at level 60, you need to complete four foundry quests a day. These quests can be no shorter than fifteen minutes on average meaning you must spend a minimum of 60 minutes of average playtime in the foundry missions. Of course you can zerg and spend less time but the quests average playtime must be 60 minutes.
Scrap the number of quests and change it to average minutes.
By doing this people will actually feel rewarded for playing longer content. While 15 minutes can be argued as a minimum to put out a decent short story the true sweet spot for quests in my opinion is 30 minutes and hour long epics, when done right like Zovya's Quest, are where the good content is.
The thing is because you are not rewarded by Rhix's daily for a single second past 15 minutes few play them.
Make it so that if you do a quest with an average completion time of 30 minutes you get rewarded for a 30 minute quest and only have to spend 30 more minutes playing foundry missions instead of 45. Likewise you can do a 45 minute quest or hour long quest and get rewarded for doing that amount of time.
That is all people like myself need in order to play longer missions.
I love stories and I love the good foundry work. Truly some of the foundry missions I have played are so good they should have been polished up and given a permanent home in the game somewhere with a big prideful banner saying 'look a player did this whether you believe it or not!'
But as an efficiency freak I stare at the Rhix Daily and cry. Every fiber in me screams that I am wasting time playing longer quests. Part of me enjoying any content is to do it efficiently and there is a point where the enjoyment of the quality quests does not justify the displeasure at the loss of efficiency. I could spend four hours doing foundry missions for 4K AD and thoroughly enjoy the content but at that point I can do a number of other things and both enjoy the content and feel better rewarded for my time...so guess what I do...
And in my opinion that's where most people stand. I don't think half of the people who play those farm quests would opt to given the proper incentive to play quests of varied times.
But many of you have heard this rant already.
I am all for people playing 15 minute farm quests if they really enjoy them but those who want a little more substance don't deserve to get shafted for playing what we enjoy and the authors most certainly don't deserve to have some of the best content with the least amount of plays.
Excellent... With one addition... Make it so each Foundry can only be played one single time per character. I know this sounds odd to the MMO world, but to us Table Toppers, this makes complete sense. I never played any module more than once. With the number of authors and potential authors out there, this should be a non issue anyways, as there will be plenty of Dungeons to run, and more created daily.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
The mergers (edit: meant to read "zergers") will still be there, but others who enjoy more meat in their quests will actually start playing them.
I tried a few missions on STO before I stopped playing the game. Most were ridiculous or ignored the lore. One of the best I played was by an author who didn't even like the TV series. Everyone can paint, but there is few Rembrandts and not everyone is going to like his style.
That is what the current system is. With such a system shorter is better.
And anybody who has experience with STO can tell you that without a 15 minute minimum on Foundry missions all of the quests are....well...they are much worse than what we deal with. The fifteen minute minimum solved the issue of seas of thirty second quests but obviously didn't correct the issue...
And that issue was and remains shorter is better.
Which is why something like my suggestion is arguably needed because it allows people who like 15 minute farm quests to continue their happy existence and gives the options for those that don't to be equally rewarded for their time and effort.
Hi, just wanted to say that you don't really need to know the lore very well to make a foundry.
I mean there is a reason there is a "Lore-friendly" tag in the review system.
It is perfectly fine for you to make anything that is not lore-friendly if you want to, but of course, the "lore-friendly" tag won't be ticked by your reviewers.
So, don't feel restricted and just let your creativity flow, unless of course you want to make a lore-friendly quest, then a good grasp of the lore will be needed=)
Oh, I agree. I may have not been clear: the minimum 15 Minutes to qualify is fine. I'm referring to the "event schedule" time gate. I may be mistaken now as I've personally given-up on doing the Rhix Foundry a long time ago, so it may be changed by now?
As I recall: you take the Rhix Foundry when it is active (which is only a couple times a day, like DD events), you now have one hour to complete (or at least start your last of the count) Foundry quest to claim the prize. My thought is rather than have the Rhix be a scheduled event, turn it into a simple daily, like Invoking: you go to Rhix, take the quest goal - you now have 24 Hours to complete the Foundry quests; at your leisure/time-frame/whatever. You can claim this Rhix action only once daily, but you have a full 24-hours to complete it.
Even Star Trek Online Devs has finally given-up on the whole Hourly Schedule Events paradigm because it 10 just didn't work the way the Devs had hoped and 2) wreaks havoc on player activity (as it does in NW right now). I've never personally been a fan of scheduled hourly "events" idea. It just gives the wrong motivations to players: creates farmer-grinders.
Anyhoo, making the Rhix Foundry a simple daily would allow some people who enjoy the "better-quality" quests (read: quests that take longer than 20-40 minutes to complete) might take the time to do them, without feeling "rushed" to complete the Rhix goal in order to claim the prize. Perhaps the same way you claimed the daily from the Mayor during the Winter Event; the Telescope Constellation thing.
If you did understand that this is what I was saying, then I apologize I am misunderstanding your reply to it.
(Un)Academic Field Work Foundry Campaign: NWS-DAPZB2CTZ
The Rhix's Foundry Daily is a daily exactly as you suggest. You may go to him at any time to get the daily.
The daily is 'Complete (1 to 4) Foundry Missions that qualify for rewards.' (At level 60 it is 4 quests)
Since you are rewarded only for the number of quests you complete and not the length of the quests it is in every way shape and form better to do shorter quests. Every minute beyond the 15 minute minimum is wasted because the daily only cares that you do 4 quests which qualify for rewards.
You can pick up the daily any time after 5? AM EST and must complete it before 5? AM EST in order to be able to pick up the daily quest the next day. You do not need to complete four in a day, though, unless you want to be able to do the daily...daily.
So yeah, in a nutshell what you suggest already exists exactly as you describe. Since quest length is not considered in the daily people are not free to play whatever quests they like unless they are willing to shoot themselves in the foot in order to play content they enjoy.
Okay, then it's changed since I last played it (think beta timeframe(!)) or I am completely misremembering how it worked (I refer to timeframe again)
In that case: I've got nothing. really, just nothing. LOL
I would strongly disagree with this, simply because it would prevent you from being able to share a wonderful Foundry that you have found with friends of the same level.
What I would suggest instead is make is to you can play the same Foundry as many times as you want with a character, but you only get whatever the reward is from the first time you play it. Now that the system tracks which ones you have played and which you have not, this should not be difficult.
-- @Gruffydd
And sometimes you just really love and enjoy something and want to do it again. Not the 4 times a day every day forever kind of again, but to have the option to revisit it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Daily: AD reward = 50 x (foundry minutes played / squareroot(number of foundries played))
[With a maximum of 60 minutes daily counted toward award]
Event: XP bonus
Encourages more time spent in longer foundries and penalizes (reduces anyway) rewards for instant and farms.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
With my natural tendencies toward science, I would probably end up writing a bad episode of Star Trek or an Asylum Film. I appreciate the opportunity but I think I will just play them instead. "Those who can -- do. Those who can't -- criticize."
IMHO... Bad idea.
You are talking a very large number of AD and this would only reward those at the top.
Most will never ever reach this.
So why reward those already at the top.
And if I remember correctly foundry quests were ported over from Beta along with any tips...
Narayan
However I do think they should limit each quest to grant a reward only once per day. Heck even once per week would be fine in my books, but I do agree stopping people from repeating the same foundry missions over and over again for daily rewards would be a step in the right direction in at least encouraging people to explore additional content and maybe even get some more variety to the best list.
Additionally, I believe hourly rewards scale based on average mission length.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?