I'm going to reiterate something that Mel said: If you can't post in a constructive manner, don't post it at all.
Bashing the devs is NOT feedback. Insulting staff is not feedback. Complaining about moderation is not feedback.
Constructive need not be synonymous with positive feedback, despite the common misconception. There's a world of difference between saying "I don't like this, and here's what can be suggested to change that" and "whoever came up with this idea should be dragged into the street and shot". The former gives the devs a foundation to work with; the latter only insults and antagonizes.
As has been said countless times on this forum: It's not what you say, but how you present it that matters. Saying "oh, I'm just being honest with the 'truth' " does NOT give one license to willfully ignore Rules of Conduct, nor does being upset or frustrated with any proposed changes. We aren't "shielding the devs from the truth", we're simply asking that you present your gripes in a constructive manner. However, we will--as our duties demand--moderate any post that is in violation of our Rules of Conduct. That's non-negotiable, I'm afraid.
Do not respond to this note, rather, use the PM system to address any concerns you may have with this statement. Thank you.
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nanjo12Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2014
I dont usually post here but since i play 2 HR both at lvl 60 and with over 15k GS each . One is a PVP melee and the other an archery PVE.
This is my view on this.
Split Shot Split Shot to me is the DPS power for HR. Sure there is combos like Rain of Arrow in a Singularity but those are more or less situational. To do DPS you basically spam split shot.. Seems simple and boring but there is really nothing to replace it for DPS. Reduce this with 45% and you reduce the total DPS of a HR with close to the same. The time it takes to stop and use an Encounter is one round of split shot lost and it can be argued if it is even worth using the Encounter over split shot in most cases. So, yes, with this nerf you cut the TOTAL DPS for HR by about 40-45%.
If you look at Split Shot by itself it is probably too powerful, but compared to other classes HR NEEDS this! Split Shot is what we use to stay on par with other DPS classes. I think the real problem here is Split Shot being pretty powerful and and have the reach advantage it creates massive aggro very early that cause problems for the party. Find a way to reduce the aggro it creates because the damage is needed for HRs.. Or something else will have to make up for the DPS loss. If not this just might kill the HR in PVE.
Fox Shift Fox Shift is a beast in PVP! It can do a lot of damage which is why its being nerfed I assume. But again, we have to look at the HR in PVP without it. what is left if we lose this? Right now a HR in PVP is pretty good but its a lot because of Fox Shift. Without Fox Shift a melee HR doesnt have much weapons that really cause damage. a HR is rather fragile, we cant take much hits.. So we should be able to do some to make up for it right? A plate class should be able to take more damage of course but should they also be able to do more damage? That would make it unbalanced. So a HR being a leather class needs to be able to do damage in PVP. We do have the roots and snares but if we dont have anything that also does some real damage it wont help us much
When i play I want to feel like I have a role, that I can do something for the party. With these 2 changes Im afraid a lot of people would rather pick another class over HR in both PVP and PVE parties.
"Fox Shift: This power now only hits each target one time during its activation. Additionally, the power was erroneously ticking an additional time at the start of its activation and this has been fixed."
now it can be used to hit a whole team with the addition to forest ghost you will now hit each target twice when surrounded
"To compensate for this change and the fact that the power now cannot strike a target more than once, damage has been increased by 33%."
Now it hits each target harder 33% harder so you can use it while invisible while people are all on the node and hit them all then run away like lightning
"Fox Shift: This power now correctly makes you immune to damage and control effects while you are jumping from target to target."
and now you cant be hurt or stunned or proned while hitting them all twice
dunno it sounds more useful to me at least in surrounded scenarios.
and besides they havent even announced what else they are changing with regards to split shot who knows with our help they might even make the hr more than a splitshot arrow tower from a tower defense game.
Splitshot only has so much aggro because were hitting 5 targets 10k of course monsters are pissed lol this "nerf" would potentially fix that and thusly increase dps because were not dodging every monster in a 5 block radius.
There's gotta be more to this update than just these few issues maybe increase the base damage some of the other encounters do by about 10% or so to make up for the losses in splitshot and single target fox shifting. Or maybe make electric shot do a bit more damage when leveled as well so that splitshot isnt the only go-to aoe make them close and im sure that it will be used more along with splitshot which is what i do anyway.
This is the problem. A lot of posts are worrying about how these changes affect PvP and they forget about the PvE side which is the majority of the game and of the player base. Fixing for PvP is killing the class for PvE and that needs to stop. I PvE only as do a lot of other players and these changes are affecting us to the point that we don't want to play our HRs anymore if this goes Live. The Devs need to look at how to fix it for PvP without affecting PvE. And if they can't then just leave it alone and try a different way. I enjoy playing my HRs but with this it will be that I just shelve them and do something else.
well, i feel this is totally uncalled for. split shot is our bread and butter for ranged damage.
for a striker class there job is to lay damage out on the baddies. yet, a CW that is geared will do far more damage than a HR that is equally geared. the cw also has more control, and is slightly more durable.
it already hard enough for an HR to get into parties for DD, the only thing we bring is damage, yet our best skill getting nerfed by 45% this nearly cuts our damage effectiveness in half.
i can see if your hybrid, or melee ranger or speced nature, but as a ranged class with no durability and speced for crit and power, you should be one of the hardest hitting classes for multi target engagements. tr's should be hardest hitting single target.
yet most of our powers are low damage utility, or the charge is so long you are lucky to get one shot off before they are on top of you.
we lack durability, we lack run speed, we lack control, or mob cc, and now it seams we will lack damage output if these changes go through.
without split shot where will our damage come from? without split shot who is gonna want a ranger in there party when a cw will out perform in every way.
again, this is from a ranged HR build, not hybrid or melee or nature.
the idea of balance should be about making all classes viable in pve, yet i truly feel that the CW and GWF will continue to rule the field and hr's will not be wanted or needed.
GF's at least have durabilty
tr's at least have perma stealth and burst
DC's have there heals, there durability
hr only really had high damage and a majority of that damage is from split shot. are they trying to force hr's to play melee builds, or nature builds or hybrids? this feels more like taking away player options.
so ya, you are gonna have a lot of pissed off players, this is uncalled for. there has not been an explanation for this nerf, and there has not been feedback, not a whisper of reasoning behind this.
go back and read your post on the hunter ranger and tell me how this nerf falls inline with your own description of the class. hunter ranger
at the very least give us reasons for this, explain to us your vision, what are you trying to accomplish? feedback goes both ways. we pay your bills we deserve honest feedback, we deserve honest answers.
This is the problem. A lot of posts are worrying about how these changes affect PvP and they forget about the PvE side which is the majority of the game and of the player base. Fixing for PvP is killing the class for PvE and that needs to stop. I PvE only as do a lot of other players and these changes are affecting us to the point that we don't want to play our HRs anymore if this goes Live. The Devs need to look at how to fix it for PvP without affecting PvE. And if they can't then just leave it alone and try a different way. I enjoy playing my HRs but with this it will be that I just shelve them and do something else.
i agree, pvp should never effect pve. yet, it really feels all they care about or think about is the pvp.
Might I suggest everyone stops worrying until we can actually have the patch on test and TEST it?
45% reduction, fine, test it. Log it. split shot makes HR an silly unfun class that only spams one button in dungeons. SO. Test the damage reduction, and suggest what needs to be changed to make a HR a viable dps toon in a dungeon. Perhaps lowering encounter cooldowns, or upping their damage.
Also, I understand you are reacting to a change to your class, my HR is a melee speced one, so this doesn't affect me too much, but again, keep a cool head, and wait till you can test it.
maybe they should make a different server for pvp only that you can build your character around pvp on that server and build for pve on pve server that you can copy your character to each 1 time and allows devs to actually balance the game around what server its under instead of trying to balance them both because its easier to balance a 600 LB weight using two arms separately in two spots than two arms together in one spot.
and i feel that this nerf is something that needs to be tested carefully and balancing of the other skills is imperative to the future of the hr without all the hatemail.
if you were refering to me rhoric i was using pvp as an example i dont even bother with pvp apologies if you were not what i said still applies to pve.
maybe they should make a different server for pvp only that you can build your character around pvp on that server and build for pve on pve server that you can copy your character to each 1 time and allows devs to actually balance the game around what server its under instead of trying to balance them both because its easier to balance a 600 LB weight using two arms separately in two spots than two arms together in one spot.
and i feel that this nerf is something that needs to be tested carefully and balancing of the other skills is imperative to the future of the hr without all the hatemail.
the idea of separate servers i liked, but i do not hink that will be viable now with "open world pvp". feels like they are pushing for neverwinter to be a pvp game.
its likely gonna be a open world pvp map area only and there are supposedly stronger monsters there than anywhere outside of a dungeon.
pvp is as much a part of neverwinter as pve is but its a much smaller part they havent added any new maps and people have been wanting to duel since the game came out 1st day and the pvp area map is gonna be the best way to do that without actually having a duel.
im probably not gonna touch that unless im atleast 14k gs anyway not unless i wanna get stomped that is lol.
the way i read it, its an area that if you accidentally walk into you are automatically flagged for pvp, regardless, the only way to unflag is via at fire camp.
if this all goes live, an HR truly gets these nerfs without anything to compensate, i will move on personally. its actually these proposed changes to the hr that have become the last straw.
your right it is disheartening but its up to us to help them realise what they need to do in order to keep hr from drowning we need to extensively test this see where the problem areas are and how the devs can help to compensate.
Hate in a forum is the same as hate in real life nothing good ever comes of it. Together with the devs we are stronger than the devs are alone they need our thoughts on it as much as we want the class to be great.
together we can make sure this nerf doesnt hurt as much as it seems to now or we can quit and nothing will ever change for the better.
after some testing we should brainstorm areas of improvement that could offset the nerf while adding to the hr's flexibility.
could be, only the devs tend to pick and choose of there own will. they have not given feedback, or reasoning. until they do, i will not hold my breath.
HR's have been needing some love for awhile. when the only thing we have is damage, and a CW consistently out performs us in every respect, and we are no longer wanted for dungeon runs.
if they nerf this, then something must change else where to make us viable. the problem, we are a stiker class, with very little damage powers available in our kit. aimed shot is good burst, but really can only be used once per encounter because of that long animation, and being rooted. fast shot, not near enough damage output, electric, does that even do damage? i have yet to see it work or be any use in any situation.
like i said, if they nerf our only reliable damage, where to we get it back from?
i understand people complained about HR's being op in pvp, i also don't give a rats butt for pvp. my concerns are pve, and trying to get into dungeons when we are already consistently out performed by cw's(control), and GWF's (off-tank)
at this point i have lost faith and respect towards the game, and the developers, and the Godly mods, only a few friends left, and they are planning to leave when eldar scrolls hits. kinda makes you wonder why play, why support them anymore, when it feels like your getting ignored, deleted, and dismissed.
i regret spending money now, it hurts but its true.
yeah i feel you on that but if i recieved this much heat from one thing especially since most of the threads on the forums are mostly about how useless everything but the cw and gwf i would want to not look too. its because the mods have to intervene or else its just gonna spawn more hate; more hate=less hope.
i agree but those classes are to recieve nerfs and balances as well; the gwfs arent taking it too well either. they are considering what to do about all this but it needs to be done delicately or they could truly destroy the game and honestly with elder scrolls its gonna cost $15 or something a month to play it im not paying that it looks really static anyway.
I too have lost and regained faith in this game multiple times but it passes as time does.
my concerns are for pve too so are many others we need to have some sort of liason with the devs and designers that is more effective than this forum. maybe like a player house of representatives or something where things that are important and make sense are placed right in front of the devs written by players like us that are written reasonably that doesnt insult or scare them away from the threads which is what happened here and the devs could have some sort of corespondance with the house and lay thier reasons bare without being burned by us.
we shouldnt be at war with the devs we should ally ourselves with them allies make things much easier to build than wars not to say we should just go uh huh uh huh and agree with everything but we shouldnt make them regret thier job for it thats how games die and threads are ignored.
these changes themselves are subject to change and what we post does matter weather hatefilled or thoughtful they still have plenty of time to add new buffs and things of that nature to the class we just need to get in there to test-to-suggest.
difference is more thoughtful the better things should turn out. The time is now to help improve the classes due to the overhauls they are trying to pull fighting or crying will not solve nor improve anything.
to add youre right they do need to explain why this is happening but ive already gone over somethings that can be done and why it might be happening it was all speculation but its why i see the nerf differently even though it will hurt my archer there still is probably a reasonable explanation for it.
This 45% could end up only being 20% when its released and alot of other abilities with our help could be made to compensate for the loss.
and i use electric all the time it works great with splitshot 1200 per crit per shot 700 normal and it generates litterally no aggro what so ever which is why its probably there to give aggro lock from split shot a chance to break while still hitting multiples and maintaining damage plus it procs weapon enchantments pretty easily like plaguefire with ES is so much better than with split because it focuses the debuff in a targeted area and easily maintains it almost indefinately.
yeah i feel you on that but if i recieved this much heat from one thing especially since most of the threads on the forums are mostly about how useless everything but the cw and gwf i would want to not look too. its because the mods have to intervene or else its just gonna spawn more hate; more hate=less hope.
i agree but those classes are to recieve nerfs and balances as well; the gwfs arent taking it too well either. they are considering what to do about all this but it needs to be done delicately or they could truly destroy the game and honestly with elder scrolls its gonna cost $15 or something a month to play it im not paying that it looks really static anyway.
I too have lost and regained faith in this game multiple times but it passes as time does.
my concerns are for pve too so are many others we need to have some sort of liason with the devs and designers that is more effective than this forum. maybe like a player house of representatives or something where things that are important and make sense are placed right in front of the devs written by players like us that are written reasonably that doesnt insult or scare them away from the threads which is what happened here and the devs could have some sort of corespondance with the house and lay thier reasons bare without being burned by us.
we shouldnt be at war with the devs we should ally ourselves with them allies make things much easier to build than wars not to say we should just go uh huh uh huh and agree with everything but we shouldnt make them regret thier job for it thats how games die and threads are ignored.
these changes themselves are subject to change and what we post does matter weather hatefilled or thoughtful they still have plenty of time to add new buffs and things of that nature to the class we just need to get in there to test-to-suggest.
difference is more thoughtful the better things should turn out. The time is now to help improve the classes due to the overhauls they are trying to pull fighting or crying will not solve nor improve anything.
to add youre right they do need to explain why this is happening but ive already gone over somethings that can be done and why it might be happening it was all speculation but its why i see the nerf differently even though it will hurt my archer there still is probably a reasonable explanation for it.
This 45% could end up only being 20% when its released and alot of other abilities with our help could be made to compensate for the loss.
and i use electric all the time it works great with splitshot 1200 per crit per shot 700 normal and it generates litterally no aggro what so ever which is why its probably there to give aggro lock from split shot a chance to break while still hitting multiples and maintaining damage plus it procs weapon enchantments pretty easily like plaguefire with ES is so much better than with split because it focuses the debuff in a targeted area and easily maintains it almost indefinately.
I get what you are saying, but here is my problem.
45% reduction to splitshot. No explaination, no reason, no nothing. They have been around gaming long enough to know that without proper explaination, this was going to create a **** storm. Now if some posters are correct, and it is being adjusted because of the power rework, then why didn't they just come out and say it. Why create this anxiety within the playerbase.
People have investments into their character, monetary and timewise. How am I supposed to feel good about dropping 10 bucks here and there into this game, when they don't even have the common courtesy to explain why the are devaluing my investment? I would support them 100% if they just communicated thier intensions and goals a little better, ok no, a lot better.
We are your fans, your players, and your paycheck. Treat us a little better.
I get what you are saying, but here is my problem.
45% reduction to splitshot. No explaination, no reason, no nothing. They have been around gaming long enough to know that without proper explaination, this was going to create a **** storm. Now if some posters are correct, and it is being adjusted because of the power rework, then why didn't they just come out and say it. Why create this anxiety within the playerbase.
People have investments into their character, monetary and timewise. How am I supposed to feel good about dropping 10 bucks here and there into this game, when they don't even have the common courtesy to explain why the are devaluing my investment? I would support them 100% if they just communicated thier intensions and goals a little better, ok no, a lot better.
We are your fans, your players, and your paycheck. Treat us a little better.
Agreed i hope they do come back to this thread and that they do explain it well enough so that we can understand the decision. we need to use the time to test and come back to the thread too with real relevent info the more info we can feed them the better off those investments will pay off when these changes do go live i sincerely hope that we can find our way through all this with out blowing it out of porportion.
theres no way of knowing exactly what kind of penalty were looking at with no testing if it is due to the rework.
theyve said that every class is going to go through some type of changes especially the wizards not all will be good but im sure with proper handling and feedback it wont be gamebreaking for any of us.
im gonna start testing it right after i wake up probably 6 hours from now and will post my ideas when after i play a few hours.
I (and seems like many other people) just cant understand how can you lower damage of a(let me remind you) DPS CLASS
and let CONTROL CLASS out-damage DPS CLASS , seems unreasonable to me to nerf the ONLY useful at will in PVE (which does alot more damage then many encounters),
and ONLY damage dealing encounter for PVP single target , as DPS class HRs should have damage , but it seems like they are gonna provide ONLY utility (mark for enemies drop supplies)
There is already a problem that MOST of Hrs encounters are useless or have too long cool down to actually use or bugged , or are single target AND long cool down to use them in PVE, so instead of balancing those nerfing encounters that actually useful is again seems unreasonable.
Giving HRs better thorn strike which deals more damage as the target gets lower is good , but how you are gonna get your target low?
AND about all those "test and then talk" , you must realize that there are nothing to test besides understanding the fact that you are going to do 45% less damage in PVE and you are gonna be even less wanted in dungeons as HRs already have NOTHING to put on a table except their dps (which is not that great anyways as off-tanks and control classes outdps you)
Guardian Fighters are seeing their Knight Captain set bonus nerfed by ~45%, apparently because of how power works in Module 3. This is relevant, and let me explain why:
I suspect that what nobody's considering in this sea of knee-jerk outrage is that while the change to Split Shot is 45% on paper, in practice it may work out to be less. Additionally, other powers that aren't being changed might actually be a bit more effective in Module 3 than they are now.
I claim no crystal ball and I assert no certainty to my suspicions. I simply point out that the evidence is there to suggest that this outcome may be possible.
Additionally, further careful review and consideration leads me to believe that Pathfinder is actually a really good Paragon for Combat- and Hybrid-spec HRs. I'm certainly looking forward to it myself, considering how little of the Stormwarden path I currently use.
What this misses is that power affects all classes. So while it might buff HR some it will buff others the same and GWFs and Conq GFs even more. So respective to the other classes in the game Hr will remain the third wheel. o illuystrate if the power changes make the 45% nerf into a 20% nerf it means that everyone else got a 25% buff. I fail to see this as a good thing for HRs...
A dev is on right now but he hasn't answered our concern. He has posted in the GWF topic. All we are asking is for an answer on why it is such a big reduction in damage. It got hit with a big reduction when the class first came out for testing and now it is getting hit again.
Feedback: Split shot The reduction of the damage of this power seems quite drastic. A suggestion would be not to give a 45% reduction but may be a 20%, also if the damage is the trouble, why not making that the power make reduced damage for every extra foe hit with it. or give it a limitation of how may enemies can hit instead, may be a max of 4. or 5
Another suggestion, in order to give other tools for ranger, and making other powers more appealing for the players would be:
1_ increase the damage of such skills wich seems never to been used or considered by players
2_ Add other effects to skilss (may be poison, damage over time etc,)
example: Aimed shot The output of damage is really good, the problem is that anything can interrupt it, and again, take too long, why not giving an option, like with split shot, to release the aimed shot early for less damage, but if you shot it full bar, making the skill do something else, like dealing not only bonus damage, but also affecting any near foe close enough to the target but the other receive reduced damage (just like lunging strike of Guardian fighters)Also, The melee version of it could use a shorter animation, such a small change would make this skill very appealing for players
Aimed shot The output of damage is really good, the problem is that anything can interrupt it, and again, take too long, why not giving an option, like with split shot, to release the aimed shot early for less damage, but if you shot it full bar, making the skill do something else, like dealing not only bonus damage, but also affecting any near foe close enough to the target but the other receive reduced damage (just like lunging strike of Guardian fighters)Also, The melee version of it could use a shorter animation, such a small change would make this skill very appealing for players
basically a piercing shot is what you mean i can see that being a possibility and i also agree that there needs to be some type of extra effect to other skills as well and aimed strike does need a bit of speed if not less clumsiness to use like having the ability to que the next attack after doing it instead of sitting in one spot for a second after hit then needing to dodge etc.
I said it in a previous post and I'll say it again. Rangers didn't need nerfed they needed balanced. For split shot to do the damage it did was ridiculous no one can argue that. It did need lowered, but only by 25%. But in even lowering the damage by 25% encounters needed to be made usable in high end PVE content. Rain of arrows is very good dps but it has such a tiny radius as to make it unusable in t2 dungeons. Double the size of it's radius. Make split the sky stun for 2 seconds on its first tick. Buff electric shots damage by 25% and add a snare to it. Make those encounters and the at will electric shot desirable to use for the player and things to bring to a group setting. The AOE part of foxes shift was nicely balanced I believe but the single target part unless it has the same duration of cc/damage immunity that aoe is then it's lackluster at best. Make it hit twice please. Thorn strike buff, it's an execute. What's not to like about an execute? Now for first impressions of the new paragon path.
At-Wills
Ranged: Hunter’s Teamwork: You mark supplies that the enemy is carrying, marking them with Hunter’s Teamwork. If the foe dies while marked they drop supplies that any ally can pick up. Picking up these supplies heals all teammates and restores some Action Points. Only one foe may be marked by Hunter’s Teamwork at a time.
Melee: Careful Attack: You study your foe and foes near him, exposing weaknesses in their defenses. Enemies studied in this way deal slightly less damage and take bonus damage the next time they are struck.
(Those two at wills are never going to be slotted on anyones bar for any reason. No one in a group is going to take time to stop and pick a supply pack in the middle of a fight because if they stop moving they will hammered by a big red cc circle of death from a mob. The melee part. Aimed strike puts a dot on the mob. when it crits it's decent. A melee ranger is going to use aimed strike.)
Encounters
Ranged: Ambush: You gain Ambush and Stealth for several seconds. Ambush causes your next attack to deal bonus damage (this effect is reduced on AoE attacks). Ambush is cancelled early if you move. Stealth is cancelled early if you attack.
Melee: Bear Trap: Toss a massive Bear Trap at target location. This Bear Trap stuns and deals damage to any foe who steps on it. This Power has 2 charges.
(This I believe will be put to use by many pathfinder rangers. it sounds fabulous)
Daily
Slasher’s Mark: Leap to your target with a Slashing Strike, marking your target. When you or your allies strike the marked target you restore Stamina or Guard Meter. Costs 100% of your AP.
(Unless this does massive damage no one is gonna use it. No group is going to care about stamina/gaurd meter regen.)
Class Features
Battlehoned: When you are attacked you gain 100 Regeneration for 4 seconds. This effect does not stack.
(Never going to be slotted. 100 regen is nothing. to many other incredably good passives to use.)
Pathfinder’s Action: Activating a Daily Power increases your Run speed and Deflection Chance for several seconds.
(same as above)
Cruel Recovery: When you deal critical damage to an enemy you gain 1% of your Max HP as special Temp HP.
(This one however sounds very useful)
Feats
Archery: Quarry: You deal 1/2/3/4/5% bonus damage to targets affected by your Hunter’s Teamwork or Careful Attack At-Will powers.
Combat: Advanced Stalking: Your Ambush power can now last .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds longer. Your Bear Trap now snares targets for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds.
Nature: Slasher’s Speed: The Action Point cost of your Slasher’s Mark daily is reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%. Pathfinder’s Action’s
movement buff lasts .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds longer.
(Advanced stalking is of course fabulous to go with the fabulous new encounter. The other two....not so much)
I will end by saying that long wall of text I just placed are my intitial views. I WILL be testing every little bit this new stuff and changes in every type of scenario possible when this hits test.
Well, I thought split shot was OP for a long time. No matter what I tried with this damned class I struggled as soon as I wasnt using it. Nothing came close to its effectiveness. But I LOATHED being a one-trick pony. Hated it. So I tried changing it up, doing other things and seeing what I was doing wrong.
I came out of dungeon runs and skirmishes embarrassed. My DPS was 4th if I was lucky (meaning the tank and/or healer were out-dpsing me). This is an off toon, but I have a couple of 60's so I know what Im doing, but without split shot I just couldnt make this class do spit. I find myself having to spam split shot just to be feasible.
Is split shot OP? Maybe a little. Is everything else completely sub-par? Yep. The proposed solution is all wrong. They dont need to nerf split shot, they have to bring everything else up.
If they go ahead with this, I will likely be shelving the HR. Not because I want to (Hell, I love the armor models and the Ranged/Melee mechanic is cool) but just because I would be wasting my time investing in a class most people will just not invite to dungeon runs (or even worse, just vote/kick me once they see what my class is).
[...]
we are not tanks, or healers, or control, we are a dps class, a striker class. the TR is the single target striker, i thought we where the aoe striker class. also, considering we already have 3 melee classes, as an HR i would think our strongest powers would be for ranged combat. you know a hunter with a BOW.
Ranger is a martial and primal striker class in fourth edition Dungeons & Dragons. BUT Hunter is a subclass of ranger introduced in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms. Hunters have a controller role instead of striker.
BTW CW get a balance pass next time, maybe you should look in the GWF thread.
I have a HR too and I am not amused. Now if the could strengthen our utility by a magnitude, I could live with it. I don't play PvP so take this with a grain of salt......
Ranged: Hunter’s Teamwork: You mark supplies that the enemy is carrying, marking them with Hunter’s Teamwork. If the foe dies while marked they drop supplies that any ally can pick up. Picking up these supplies heals all teammates and restores some Action Points. Only one foe may be marked by Hunter’s Teamwork at a time.
this all depends on how much healing and action points it actually gives the group at base if its enough it could very well save the entire group in trouble just by hitting f or just walking over it I personally would go for the walking over it part as it would make it so that it can be useful without being a detriment to have to look down in heated battle and hit f make this into a powerup that can be taken easily and people might use it.
Pathfinder’s Action: Activating a Daily Power increases your Run speed and Deflection Chance for several seconds.
I can see this being useful for a multi fight daily like disruptive shot for melee and nature depending on how much runspeed and deflect chance you get for it especially if you happen to have the run speed t1 feat for nature or the 10% extra deflection from the combat tree or both.
Battlehoned: When you are attacked you gain 100 Regeneration for 4 seconds. This effect does not stack.
maybe at 150-200 it would prove more useful? because as a ranger being attacked is inevitable meaning in combat this will be on almost all the time and if you already have decent regen 100-200 extra regen means that your decent regen is now great regen maybe make it last 6 seconds since it takes 3 seconds to gain life from regen.
Slasher’s Mark: Leap to your target with a Slashing Strike, marking your target. When you or your allies strike the marked target you restore Stamina or Guard Meter. Costs 100% of your AP.
Nature: Slasher’s Speed: The Action Point cost of your Slasher’s Mark daily is reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%. Pathfinder’s Action’s
movement buff lasts .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds longer.
Having these together means that if a guardian fighter has expended his meter after hitting the marked target he can now block especially if he uses his tide of iron to do the guard gain and depending on how long the mark lasts you could very well fill up his guard meter and his ap bar to full at the same time along with anyone elses ap bar while using hunters teamwork mark and really the whole team can benefit from this ability and having this feated means its less of a strain and it allows a disruptive shot to be made right after use. And hey it has to be better than storm wardens daily right?
Ranged: Ambush: You gain Ambush and Stealth for several seconds.
Ambush causes your next attack to deal bonus damage (this effect is reduced on AoE attacks).
Ambush is cancelled early if you move. Stealth is cancelled early if you attack.
So basically ambush stays on if you attack but remain stationary and stealth allows only movement and not attack meaning if you want to sneak past something or escape from surrounded scenarios you can lose ambush but keep stealth. If you want to turret then you can keep ambush but lose stealth.
Its a pretty decent idea considering the duality nature of the HR. Depending on the actual buff and length of stealth this could be very good. If you feat it ambush lasts longer. the more i read it the better it actually sounds
Melee: Careful Attack: You study your foe and foes near him, exposing weaknesses in their defenses. Enemies studied in this way deal slightly less damage and take bonus damage the next time they are struck.
this could be good when used with ambush and other skills that weaken enemies defense like a fighters mark you could use this and enemies in an area are effected add in enforced threat or a kill strike from IBS or student of the sword it could weaken them a whole lot we just have to see on preview how these moves may work together.
you cant look at each of these skills on thier own its pointless to; instead look at them as a whole.
45% nerf on SS, nerf on Stormstep and we arent in line with other classes now. We have a few key powers and the rest are HAMSTER. Period. ... And actually split shot is one of the few good powers. ES doesnt even compare, Im not even sure its attention because its slow, has a weird animation that makes it slower and does no damage. AS gets disrupted when a sylph farts and the cast time is so long, if you dont crit its worthless. Rapid shot will crit for the same as aimed shot.. kind of messed up.
.
as stated above, HRs have many encounters that are actually absolutely useless in PVE or PVP and those that actually somewhat useful are actually used.
let me explain and make some examples:
Want to remind you that HRs are DPS/Striker class , even if you choose to go Nature you are not suppose to be even close to a Healer or Fulfill his role
Aspect of the falcon class feature- useless PVE and PVP, cant use distance as you will be almost melee range to your target most of the time
Electric shot at will- last at will in the skill list of an HR, suppose to be something better then those before , do more damage or provide more utility, but no , completely useless.
Split the sky- 22s cd - long cooldown aoe ability , which doesnt do good damage , doesnt provide good utility , still used by some hunters in PVE, cant be used in PVP , because it just seems to do nothing to your enemies. Throw caution - 20s cd - basically a debuff yourself , because you get focused most of the time , and die even faster
wanna die faster in PVE ? like instead of 10 hits , die in 7 hits use it .
Boar hide - somewhat useful in PVE , but considering HRs are supposed to be DPS class and not buffer not supposed to be used by nature HRs as the Melee version of this power is a SINGLE TARGET prone which cant be used efficiently in PVE Boar charge- melee prone single target, decent in PVP useless in PVE(because most of the ads you are going to attack single target are immune), long cooldown,(16s)
But overall less useless then other powers
Commanding shot -
single target debuff which is 50% less efficient then even 1 stack of High Vizier debuff(400 defense debuff)
Gonna use it in PVE? and in PVP its too long of a casting time AND cooldown to use Stag heart - yep, you are not a healer , and even if u try to make up for the lack of healing you will not be able to do that due to long cooldown (almost 20 sec)<actually it is 20 sec because the game doesnt understand fractions>
Binding Arrow- almost 3 sec debuff (20 sec cooldown) Single target, dont think its even needed to explain how useless it is in PVE, AND PVP , because you cant afford 20 sec cooldown for something that can be dodged, and even if it hits , 3 seconds roots - not worth it Oak Skin - 5 seconds buff, which suppose to heal (18 seconds cooldown) , again too long of a cooldown to use in PVE and you cant replace a healer with this ability as it heals almost nothing (700hp total)
Hawkshot - (20 seconds cd) wannabe dps encounter of a ranged HR, does as much damage as 3 shots of rapidshot(considering the cast time), single target cant be used efficiently in PVE, in PVP better to use at wills Hawkeye -20 seconds cd buff which suppose to make you do more damage on your ONE NEXT ATTACK
again, we are talking about STRIKER/DPS class here , and not some strange buffer, even Divine glow (which makes you deal more damage then this lasts much longer and is given by healer class)
useless in pve, and pvp
Cold Steel Hurricane daily - completely misfit power , as a daily must be stronger then encounter , but actually is weaker then an at will...
With that being said , out if 11 encounters, 4 dailies(2 of which are utility and not damage dealing AS DPS CLASS), 7 class features, and 4 at wills -
We actually have only 5 encounters for PVE and 5 for PVP
3 class features for PVE ,4 for PVP
3 dailies for both PVE and PVP
and 3 at wills for both to choose from so taking our best damage encounter and at will from HRs is not the best option to "balance" the DPS CLASS of the game
in PVP its very rare to meet more then 2 people on a node (except the first fight) so fox shift 3rd proc is pretty much useless
And just to point out one important thing : its my personal opinion(although it is shared by many good players in the game)
which like me have characters of all classes , me myself having atleast one character of each class at 13+ k Gear score ,
perfect/greater enchants and epic and legendary artifacts.
I have 2 HRs, one for pve 15k GS, and 1 for PVP almost 16k
I had always assumed that split shot was intentionally powerful to make up for the weak encounters and to encourage buffing. But, the buffs aren't enough to even remotely compete with a dc, and soon, the dps of this class will be worthless as well. I agree split shot needs a nerf, but electric shot needs a huge buff, and most encounters need a little love, at least.
Comments
Bashing the devs is NOT feedback. Insulting staff is not feedback. Complaining about moderation is not feedback.
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As has been said countless times on this forum: It's not what you say, but how you present it that matters. Saying "oh, I'm just being honest with the 'truth' " does NOT give one license to willfully ignore Rules of Conduct, nor does being upset or frustrated with any proposed changes. We aren't "shielding the devs from the truth", we're simply asking that you present your gripes in a constructive manner. However, we will--as our duties demand--moderate any post that is in violation of our Rules of Conduct. That's non-negotiable, I'm afraid.
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
This is my view on this.
Split Shot
Split Shot to me is the DPS power for HR. Sure there is combos like Rain of Arrow in a Singularity but those are more or less situational. To do DPS you basically spam split shot.. Seems simple and boring but there is really nothing to replace it for DPS. Reduce this with 45% and you reduce the total DPS of a HR with close to the same. The time it takes to stop and use an Encounter is one round of split shot lost and it can be argued if it is even worth using the Encounter over split shot in most cases. So, yes, with this nerf you cut the TOTAL DPS for HR by about 40-45%.
If you look at Split Shot by itself it is probably too powerful, but compared to other classes HR NEEDS this! Split Shot is what we use to stay on par with other DPS classes. I think the real problem here is Split Shot being pretty powerful and and have the reach advantage it creates massive aggro very early that cause problems for the party. Find a way to reduce the aggro it creates because the damage is needed for HRs.. Or something else will have to make up for the DPS loss. If not this just might kill the HR in PVE.
Fox Shift
Fox Shift is a beast in PVP! It can do a lot of damage which is why its being nerfed I assume. But again, we have to look at the HR in PVP without it. what is left if we lose this? Right now a HR in PVP is pretty good but its a lot because of Fox Shift. Without Fox Shift a melee HR doesnt have much weapons that really cause damage. a HR is rather fragile, we cant take much hits.. So we should be able to do some to make up for it right? A plate class should be able to take more damage of course but should they also be able to do more damage? That would make it unbalanced. So a HR being a leather class needs to be able to do damage in PVP. We do have the roots and snares but if we dont have anything that also does some real damage it wont help us much
When i play I want to feel like I have a role, that I can do something for the party. With these 2 changes Im afraid a lot of people would rather pick another class over HR in both PVP and PVE parties.
now it can be used to hit a whole team with the addition to forest ghost you will now hit each target twice when surrounded
"To compensate for this change and the fact that the power now cannot strike a target more than once, damage has been increased by 33%."
Now it hits each target harder 33% harder so you can use it while invisible while people are all on the node and hit them all then run away like lightning
"Fox Shift: This power now correctly makes you immune to damage and control effects while you are jumping from target to target."
and now you cant be hurt or stunned or proned while hitting them all twice
dunno it sounds more useful to me at least in surrounded scenarios.
and besides they havent even announced what else they are changing with regards to split shot who knows with our help they might even make the hr more than a splitshot arrow tower from a tower defense game.
Splitshot only has so much aggro because were hitting 5 targets 10k of course monsters are pissed lol this "nerf" would potentially fix that and thusly increase dps because were not dodging every monster in a 5 block radius.
There's gotta be more to this update than just these few issues maybe increase the base damage some of the other encounters do by about 10% or so to make up for the losses in splitshot and single target fox shifting. Or maybe make electric shot do a bit more damage when leveled as well so that splitshot isnt the only go-to aoe make them close and im sure that it will be used more along with splitshot which is what i do anyway.
for a striker class there job is to lay damage out on the baddies. yet, a CW that is geared will do far more damage than a HR that is equally geared. the cw also has more control, and is slightly more durable.
it already hard enough for an HR to get into parties for DD, the only thing we bring is damage, yet our best skill getting nerfed by 45% this nearly cuts our damage effectiveness in half.
i can see if your hybrid, or melee ranger or speced nature, but as a ranged class with no durability and speced for crit and power, you should be one of the hardest hitting classes for multi target engagements. tr's should be hardest hitting single target.
yet most of our powers are low damage utility, or the charge is so long you are lucky to get one shot off before they are on top of you.
we lack durability, we lack run speed, we lack control, or mob cc, and now it seams we will lack damage output if these changes go through.
without split shot where will our damage come from? without split shot who is gonna want a ranger in there party when a cw will out perform in every way.
again, this is from a ranged HR build, not hybrid or melee or nature.
the idea of balance should be about making all classes viable in pve, yet i truly feel that the CW and GWF will continue to rule the field and hr's will not be wanted or needed.
GF's at least have durabilty
tr's at least have perma stealth and burst
DC's have there heals, there durability
hr only really had high damage and a majority of that damage is from split shot. are they trying to force hr's to play melee builds, or nature builds or hybrids? this feels more like taking away player options.
so ya, you are gonna have a lot of pissed off players, this is uncalled for. there has not been an explanation for this nerf, and there has not been feedback, not a whisper of reasoning behind this.
go back and read your post on the hunter ranger and tell me how this nerf falls inline with your own description of the class. hunter ranger
at the very least give us reasons for this, explain to us your vision, what are you trying to accomplish? feedback goes both ways.
we pay your bills we deserve honest feedback, we deserve honest answers.
i agree, pvp should never effect pve. yet, it really feels all they care about or think about is the pvp.
45% reduction, fine, test it. Log it. split shot makes HR an silly unfun class that only spams one button in dungeons. SO. Test the damage reduction, and suggest what needs to be changed to make a HR a viable dps toon in a dungeon. Perhaps lowering encounter cooldowns, or upping their damage.
Also, I understand you are reacting to a change to your class, my HR is a melee speced one, so this doesn't affect me too much, but again, keep a cool head, and wait till you can test it.
and i feel that this nerf is something that needs to be tested carefully and balancing of the other skills is imperative to the future of the hr without all the hatemail.
if you were refering to me rhoric i was using pvp as an example i dont even bother with pvp apologies if you were not what i said still applies to pve.
the idea of separate servers i liked, but i do not hink that will be viable now with "open world pvp". feels like they are pushing for neverwinter to be a pvp game.
pvp is as much a part of neverwinter as pve is but its a much smaller part they havent added any new maps and people have been wanting to duel since the game came out 1st day and the pvp area map is gonna be the best way to do that without actually having a duel.
im probably not gonna touch that unless im atleast 14k gs anyway not unless i wanna get stomped that is lol.
but thats a lil off topic
if this all goes live, an HR truly gets these nerfs without anything to compensate, i will move on personally. its actually these proposed changes to the hr that have become the last straw.
Hate in a forum is the same as hate in real life nothing good ever comes of it. Together with the devs we are stronger than the devs are alone they need our thoughts on it as much as we want the class to be great.
together we can make sure this nerf doesnt hurt as much as it seems to now or we can quit and nothing will ever change for the better.
after some testing we should brainstorm areas of improvement that could offset the nerf while adding to the hr's flexibility.
HR's have been needing some love for awhile. when the only thing we have is damage, and a CW consistently out performs us in every respect, and we are no longer wanted for dungeon runs.
if they nerf this, then something must change else where to make us viable. the problem, we are a stiker class, with very little damage powers available in our kit. aimed shot is good burst, but really can only be used once per encounter because of that long animation, and being rooted. fast shot, not near enough damage output, electric, does that even do damage? i have yet to see it work or be any use in any situation.
like i said, if they nerf our only reliable damage, where to we get it back from?
i understand people complained about HR's being op in pvp, i also don't give a rats butt for pvp. my concerns are pve, and trying to get into dungeons when we are already consistently out performed by cw's(control), and GWF's (off-tank)
at this point i have lost faith and respect towards the game, and the developers, and the Godly mods, only a few friends left, and they are planning to leave when eldar scrolls hits. kinda makes you wonder why play, why support them anymore, when it feels like your getting ignored, deleted, and dismissed.
i regret spending money now, it hurts but its true.
i agree but those classes are to recieve nerfs and balances as well; the gwfs arent taking it too well either. they are considering what to do about all this but it needs to be done delicately or they could truly destroy the game and honestly with elder scrolls its gonna cost $15 or something a month to play it im not paying that it looks really static anyway.
I too have lost and regained faith in this game multiple times but it passes as time does.
my concerns are for pve too so are many others we need to have some sort of liason with the devs and designers that is more effective than this forum. maybe like a player house of representatives or something where things that are important and make sense are placed right in front of the devs written by players like us that are written reasonably that doesnt insult or scare them away from the threads which is what happened here and the devs could have some sort of corespondance with the house and lay thier reasons bare without being burned by us.
we shouldnt be at war with the devs we should ally ourselves with them allies make things much easier to build than wars not to say we should just go uh huh uh huh and agree with everything but we shouldnt make them regret thier job for it thats how games die and threads are ignored.
these changes themselves are subject to change and what we post does matter weather hatefilled or thoughtful they still have plenty of time to add new buffs and things of that nature to the class we just need to get in there to test-to-suggest.
difference is more thoughtful the better things should turn out. The time is now to help improve the classes due to the overhauls they are trying to pull fighting or crying will not solve nor improve anything.
to add youre right they do need to explain why this is happening but ive already gone over somethings that can be done and why it might be happening it was all speculation but its why i see the nerf differently even though it will hurt my archer there still is probably a reasonable explanation for it.
This 45% could end up only being 20% when its released and alot of other abilities with our help could be made to compensate for the loss.
and i use electric all the time it works great with splitshot 1200 per crit per shot 700 normal and it generates litterally no aggro what so ever which is why its probably there to give aggro lock from split shot a chance to break while still hitting multiples and maintaining damage plus it procs weapon enchantments pretty easily like plaguefire with ES is so much better than with split because it focuses the debuff in a targeted area and easily maintains it almost indefinately.
I get what you are saying, but here is my problem.
45% reduction to splitshot. No explaination, no reason, no nothing. They have been around gaming long enough to know that without proper explaination, this was going to create a **** storm. Now if some posters are correct, and it is being adjusted because of the power rework, then why didn't they just come out and say it. Why create this anxiety within the playerbase.
People have investments into their character, monetary and timewise. How am I supposed to feel good about dropping 10 bucks here and there into this game, when they don't even have the common courtesy to explain why the are devaluing my investment? I would support them 100% if they just communicated thier intensions and goals a little better, ok no, a lot better.
We are your fans, your players, and your paycheck. Treat us a little better.
Agreed i hope they do come back to this thread and that they do explain it well enough so that we can understand the decision. we need to use the time to test and come back to the thread too with real relevent info the more info we can feed them the better off those investments will pay off when these changes do go live i sincerely hope that we can find our way through all this with out blowing it out of porportion.
theres no way of knowing exactly what kind of penalty were looking at with no testing if it is due to the rework.
theyve said that every class is going to go through some type of changes especially the wizards not all will be good but im sure with proper handling and feedback it wont be gamebreaking for any of us.
im gonna start testing it right after i wake up probably 6 hours from now and will post my ideas when after i play a few hours.
and let CONTROL CLASS out-damage DPS CLASS , seems unreasonable to me to nerf the ONLY useful at will in PVE (which does alot more damage then many encounters),
and ONLY damage dealing encounter for PVP single target , as DPS class HRs should have damage , but it seems like they are gonna provide ONLY utility (mark for enemies drop supplies)
There is already a problem that MOST of Hrs encounters are useless or have too long cool down to actually use or bugged , or are single target AND long cool down to use them in PVE, so instead of balancing those nerfing encounters that actually useful is again seems unreasonable.
Giving HRs better thorn strike which deals more damage as the target gets lower is good , but how you are gonna get your target low?
AND about all those "test and then talk" , you must realize that there are nothing to test besides understanding the fact that you are going to do 45% less damage in PVE and you are gonna be even less wanted in dungeons as HRs already have NOTHING to put on a table except their dps (which is not that great anyways as off-tanks and control classes outdps you)
What this misses is that power affects all classes. So while it might buff HR some it will buff others the same and GWFs and Conq GFs even more. So respective to the other classes in the game Hr will remain the third wheel. o illuystrate if the power changes make the 45% nerf into a 20% nerf it means that everyone else got a 25% buff. I fail to see this as a good thing for HRs...
It's almost as if it is the weekend.
The reduction of the damage of this power seems quite drastic. A suggestion would be not to give a 45% reduction but may be a 20%, also if the damage is the trouble, why not making that the power make reduced damage for every extra foe hit with it. or give it a limitation of how may enemies can hit instead, may be a max of 4. or 5
Another suggestion, in order to give other tools for ranger, and making other powers more appealing for the players would be:
1_ increase the damage of such skills wich seems never to been used or considered by players
2_ Add other effects to skilss (may be poison, damage over time etc,)
example:
Aimed shot
The output of damage is really good, the problem is that anything can interrupt it, and again, take too long, why not giving an option, like with split shot, to release the aimed shot early for less damage, but if you shot it full bar, making the skill do something else, like dealing not only bonus damage, but also affecting any near foe close enough to the target but the other receive reduced damage (just like lunging strike of Guardian fighters)Also, The melee version of it could use a shorter animation, such a small change would make this skill very appealing for players
basically a piercing shot is what you mean i can see that being a possibility and i also agree that there needs to be some type of extra effect to other skills as well and aimed strike does need a bit of speed if not less clumsiness to use like having the ability to que the next attack after doing it instead of sitting in one spot for a second after hit then needing to dodge etc.
At-Wills
Ranged: Hunter’s Teamwork: You mark supplies that the enemy is carrying, marking them with Hunter’s Teamwork. If the foe dies while marked they drop supplies that any ally can pick up. Picking up these supplies heals all teammates and restores some Action Points. Only one foe may be marked by Hunter’s Teamwork at a time.
Melee: Careful Attack: You study your foe and foes near him, exposing weaknesses in their defenses. Enemies studied in this way deal slightly less damage and take bonus damage the next time they are struck.
(Those two at wills are never going to be slotted on anyones bar for any reason. No one in a group is going to take time to stop and pick a supply pack in the middle of a fight because if they stop moving they will hammered by a big red cc circle of death from a mob. The melee part. Aimed strike puts a dot on the mob. when it crits it's decent. A melee ranger is going to use aimed strike.)
Encounters
Ranged: Ambush: You gain Ambush and Stealth for several seconds. Ambush causes your next attack to deal bonus damage (this effect is reduced on AoE attacks). Ambush is cancelled early if you move. Stealth is cancelled early if you attack.
Melee: Bear Trap: Toss a massive Bear Trap at target location. This Bear Trap stuns and deals damage to any foe who steps on it. This Power has 2 charges.
(This I believe will be put to use by many pathfinder rangers. it sounds fabulous)
Daily
Slasher’s Mark: Leap to your target with a Slashing Strike, marking your target. When you or your allies strike the marked target you restore Stamina or Guard Meter. Costs 100% of your AP.
(Unless this does massive damage no one is gonna use it. No group is going to care about stamina/gaurd meter regen.)
Class Features
Battlehoned: When you are attacked you gain 100 Regeneration for 4 seconds. This effect does not stack.
(Never going to be slotted. 100 regen is nothing. to many other incredably good passives to use.)
Pathfinder’s Action: Activating a Daily Power increases your Run speed and Deflection Chance for several seconds.
(same as above)
Cruel Recovery: When you deal critical damage to an enemy you gain 1% of your Max HP as special Temp HP.
(This one however sounds very useful)
Feats
Archery: Quarry: You deal 1/2/3/4/5% bonus damage to targets affected by your Hunter’s Teamwork or Careful Attack At-Will powers.
Combat: Advanced Stalking: Your Ambush power can now last .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds longer. Your Bear Trap now snares targets for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds.
Nature: Slasher’s Speed: The Action Point cost of your Slasher’s Mark daily is reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%. Pathfinder’s Action’s
movement buff lasts .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds longer.
(Advanced stalking is of course fabulous to go with the fabulous new encounter. The other two....not so much)
I will end by saying that long wall of text I just placed are my intitial views. I WILL be testing every little bit this new stuff and changes in every type of scenario possible when this hits test.
45% off split shot?
Well, I thought split shot was OP for a long time. No matter what I tried with this damned class I struggled as soon as I wasnt using it. Nothing came close to its effectiveness. But I LOATHED being a one-trick pony. Hated it. So I tried changing it up, doing other things and seeing what I was doing wrong.
I came out of dungeon runs and skirmishes embarrassed. My DPS was 4th if I was lucky (meaning the tank and/or healer were out-dpsing me). This is an off toon, but I have a couple of 60's so I know what Im doing, but without split shot I just couldnt make this class do spit. I find myself having to spam split shot just to be feasible.
Is split shot OP? Maybe a little. Is everything else completely sub-par? Yep. The proposed solution is all wrong. They dont need to nerf split shot, they have to bring everything else up.
If they go ahead with this, I will likely be shelving the HR. Not because I want to (Hell, I love the armor models and the Ranged/Melee mechanic is cool) but just because I would be wasting my time investing in a class most people will just not invite to dungeon runs (or even worse, just vote/kick me once they see what my class is).
Very sad.
BTW CW get a balance pass next time, maybe you should look in the GWF thread.
I have a HR too and I am not amused. Now if the could strengthen our utility by a magnitude, I could live with it. I don't play PvP so take this with a grain of salt......
Part 1: NW-DMFKR9RPL http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?427711-Brunnen-des-Lichts-Teil-1
Part 2: NW-DLBTN8W28 http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?444281-Brunnen-des-Lichts-Teil-2
Icewind Dale campaign Osthafen sehen & sterben (German)
NW-DMC3IOWAE http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?477201-Osthafen-sehen-amp-sterben
this all depends on how much healing and action points it actually gives the group at base if its enough it could very well save the entire group in trouble just by hitting f or just walking over it I personally would go for the walking over it part as it would make it so that it can be useful without being a detriment to have to look down in heated battle and hit f make this into a powerup that can be taken easily and people might use it.
Pathfinder’s Action: Activating a Daily Power increases your Run speed and Deflection Chance for several seconds.
I can see this being useful for a multi fight daily like disruptive shot for melee and nature depending on how much runspeed and deflect chance you get for it especially if you happen to have the run speed t1 feat for nature or the 10% extra deflection from the combat tree or both.
Battlehoned: When you are attacked you gain 100 Regeneration for 4 seconds. This effect does not stack.
maybe at 150-200 it would prove more useful? because as a ranger being attacked is inevitable meaning in combat this will be on almost all the time and if you already have decent regen 100-200 extra regen means that your decent regen is now great regen maybe make it last 6 seconds since it takes 3 seconds to gain life from regen.
Slasher’s Mark: Leap to your target with a Slashing Strike, marking your target. When you or your allies strike the marked target you restore Stamina or Guard Meter. Costs 100% of your AP.
Nature: Slasher’s Speed: The Action Point cost of your Slasher’s Mark daily is reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%. Pathfinder’s Action’s
movement buff lasts .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds longer.
Having these together means that if a guardian fighter has expended his meter after hitting the marked target he can now block especially if he uses his tide of iron to do the guard gain and depending on how long the mark lasts you could very well fill up his guard meter and his ap bar to full at the same time along with anyone elses ap bar while using hunters teamwork mark and really the whole team can benefit from this ability and having this feated means its less of a strain and it allows a disruptive shot to be made right after use. And hey it has to be better than storm wardens daily right?
Ranged: Ambush: You gain Ambush and Stealth for several seconds.
Ambush causes your next attack to deal bonus damage (this effect is reduced on AoE attacks).
Ambush is cancelled early if you move. Stealth is cancelled early if you attack.
So basically ambush stays on if you attack but remain stationary and stealth allows only movement and not attack meaning if you want to sneak past something or escape from surrounded scenarios you can lose ambush but keep stealth. If you want to turret then you can keep ambush but lose stealth.
Its a pretty decent idea considering the duality nature of the HR. Depending on the actual buff and length of stealth this could be very good. If you feat it ambush lasts longer. the more i read it the better it actually sounds
Melee: Careful Attack: You study your foe and foes near him, exposing weaknesses in their defenses. Enemies studied in this way deal slightly less damage and take bonus damage the next time they are struck.
this could be good when used with ambush and other skills that weaken enemies defense like a fighters mark you could use this and enemies in an area are effected add in enforced threat or a kill strike from IBS or student of the sword it could weaken them a whole lot we just have to see on preview how these moves may work together.
you cant look at each of these skills on thier own its pointless to; instead look at them as a whole.
as stated above, HRs have many encounters that are actually absolutely useless in PVE or PVP and those that actually somewhat useful are actually used.
let me explain and make some examples:
Want to remind you that HRs are DPS/Striker class , even if you choose to go Nature you are not suppose to be even close to a Healer or Fulfill his role
Aspect of the falcon class feature - useless PVE and PVP, cant use distance as you will be almost melee range to your target most of the time
Electric shot at will - last at will in the skill list of an HR, suppose to be something better then those before , do more damage or provide more utility, but no , completely useless.
Split the sky - 22s cd - long cooldown aoe ability , which doesnt do good damage , doesnt provide good utility , still used by some hunters in PVE, cant be used in PVP , because it just seems to do nothing to your enemies.
Throw caution - 20s cd - basically a debuff yourself , because you get focused most of the time , and die even faster
wanna die faster in PVE ? like instead of 10 hits , die in 7 hits use it .
Boar hide - somewhat useful in PVE , but considering HRs are supposed to be DPS class and not buffer not supposed to be used by nature HRs as the Melee version of this power is a SINGLE TARGET prone which cant be used efficiently in PVE
Boar charge - melee prone single target, decent in PVP useless in PVE(because most of the ads you are going to attack single target are immune), long cooldown,(16s)
But overall less useless then other powers
Commanding shot -
single target debuff which is 50% less efficient then even 1 stack of High Vizier debuff(400 defense debuff)
Gonna use it in PVE? and in PVP its too long of a casting time AND cooldown to use
Stag heart - yep, you are not a healer , and even if u try to make up for the lack of healing you will not be able to do that due to long cooldown (almost 20 sec)<actually it is 20 sec because the game doesnt understand fractions>
Binding Arrow - almost 3 sec debuff (20 sec cooldown) Single target, dont think its even needed to explain how useless it is in PVE, AND PVP , because you cant afford 20 sec cooldown for something that can be dodged, and even if it hits , 3 seconds roots - not worth it
Oak Skin - 5 seconds buff, which suppose to heal (18 seconds cooldown) , again too long of a cooldown to use in PVE and you cant replace a healer with this ability as it heals almost nothing (700hp total)
Hawkshot - (20 seconds cd) wannabe dps encounter of a ranged HR, does as much damage as 3 shots of rapidshot(considering the cast time), single target cant be used efficiently in PVE, in PVP better to use at wills
Hawkeye -20 seconds cd buff which suppose to make you do more damage on your ONE NEXT ATTACK
again, we are talking about STRIKER/DPS class here , and not some strange buffer, even Divine glow (which makes you deal more damage then this lasts much longer and is given by healer class)
useless in pve, and pvp
Cold Steel Hurricane daily - completely misfit power , as a daily must be stronger then encounter , but actually is weaker then an at will...
With that being said , out if 11 encounters, 4 dailies(2 of which are utility and not damage dealing AS DPS CLASS), 7 class features, and 4 at wills -
We actually have only 5 encounters for PVE and 5 for PVP
3 class features for PVE ,4 for PVP
3 dailies for both PVE and PVP
and 3 at wills for both to choose from
so taking our best damage encounter and at will from HRs is not the best option to "balance" the DPS CLASS of the game
in PVP its very rare to meet more then 2 people on a node (except the first fight) so fox shift 3rd proc is pretty much useless
And just to point out one important thing : its my personal opinion(although it is shared by many good players in the game)
which like me have characters of all classes , me myself having atleast one character of each class at 13+ k Gear score ,
perfect/greater enchants and epic and legendary artifacts.
I have 2 HRs, one for pve 15k GS, and 1 for PVP almost 16k