So with the stormstep nerf, there is not a single good paragonpower in stormwarden works as good as nerfing splitshot to bring other at-wills closer to it.
Idk how u guys feel but atm i can just laugh:D
First - Fox Shift
Second - Split Shot
Last one - Storm Step
Just nerf constrict too, make it a self killing blow. R.I.P HR.
They already did, now u can dodge the first hit and avoid the debuff completly. No other debuff works like that, since even when u dodge it u just avoid the dmg but u still have the debuff on u.
Edit: HR is the only class with an dodge skill that cant dodge the debuff:D
sorry to say it but it is a joke why do you ppl makes a skill to hit les i cant see why and sorry but make some new skills we there a playing archers gets hits on hits so make some we can deff us whet and stop atks on us thanks
All the pve heroes need to realize most of these nerfs probably arise from the pvp. I agree that split shot needed a slight nerf in dmg in terms of pvp, no clue about pve since i don't do pve. Also still what they should nerf is constricting instead of fox, Fox is burst only because you can first shut down your target with constricting. Fox shift can be dodged easily without that triple-stun. They basically killed HR in the pvp, fox shift is like itc is to rogues=you rarely see one without it in pvp. My suggestions: Remove the extra tick from fox shift but leave dmg and the targeting as it is so it still can hit 1 target more than once. Nerf split shot dmg so that you deal the full dmg to main target but every other target takes 35% less dmg from it. Rework Constricting shot: remove the 2 extra stuns and instead buff the dmg and make rank 2 and 3 apply grasping roots. So it would still stun once. IF no rework then atleast make the cooldown 20seconds or so. If the fox shift changes go live, you will kill this skill for pvp but it will be better for pve obviously.
They already did, now u can dodge the first hit and avoid the debuff completly. No other debuff works like that, since even when u dodge it u just avoid the dmg but u still have the debuff on u.
Edit: HR is the only class with an dodge skill that cant dodge the debuff:D
I've actually been wondering about that lately.
Why is it that when I dodge Ray of Enfeeblement, conduit of ice, et-al... I still get the debuff, but Constricting Arrow was changed so that it does not (unless you, too, are an HR).
Have you guys lost your ever loving minds? A 45% dmg reduction on the only viable at-will skill HR's have sounded like a good idea? Should I just start throwing water balloons at everything now?
Seriously, as it has already been stated numerous times in this thread, Spilt Shot could use some reduction (20% tops IMHO) but a 45% nerf is far too much. If you're going to nerf the only worthwhile at-will skill HR's have by 45% then you have got to buff the other At-will skills so that we can at least be on par with other classes.
For Christ's sake, HRs went from doing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor dmg on the preview for mod2 to relatively good dmg on live and now you want to take us back to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor dmg? Make up you god **** minds already. And as I've been begging for it with every round of nerfs I guess I'll say it again.
Stop ****ing with my PvE built toons to balance PvP which I don't give a **** about!
Im confused. Why ask for feedback when you are making these changes regardless. Our feedback means nothing, or only means something if it fits withing some narrow vision.
Utterly amazing. Not much reason to play HR after this goes live. Really heartbreaking.
PS... Am I reading correctly that GWF's just got alot of damage increases? Isnt the complaint that they already steamroll everyone.
HR bug list on live server
Fix existing bugs first, then start modifying. This is principle in system development.
If you don't follow this fundamental rule, your system will be messed up no matter how much effort you make.
You are kidding yourself if you think for one minute they care about anything you say. the initial money from the class has dried up, now it is time for them to nerf it into obscurity in preparation for the new class that is coming out with module 3. As long as we let them get away with it, they will continue doing it.
I have to admit that I'm really disappointed with these planned changes. The HR class is intended to have a pure dps role. However, under current rules, I regularly find my HR being matched or beaten in dungeon dps charts by CW (controller) and GWF (dps-tank hybrids) characters with lower offensive gear score. In pvp I have a harder time with my HR than with my other characters.
Nerfing Fox Shift and Split Shot, will reduce the HR's dps potential. But shouldn't pure dps classes "do" dps better than classes for which dps is a hybrid or secondary goal? And if that broken relationship can't be fixed right now because of design or production constraints, shouldn't the doctor at least try to avoid harming the patient any worse?
Buffing Thorn Ward is great, but TW entirely offset the lost damage from Fox Shift and Split Shot. Why not roll out some improvements to many of the other underpowered HR powers at the same time as the nerfs to Fox Shift and Split Shot? There are some EASY low-hanging fruit that you could fix with minimal time and effort, as others have already pointed out in this thread. People who are currently demonizing you would be singing your praises instead, AND you'd have a cleaner, more elegant, and more enjoyable game. This would be a WIN/WIN situation.
wow just did a 34 minute match against 3 GWF's, 1 rogue and a DC.. I got steamrolled. prone prone prone prone dead. But we are getting nerfed??? I cant even keep up with 1 gwf, let alone 3. I dont need a bag that drops once I mark someone.. lol ridiculous
This is devestating
Storm Warden
Class Feature: Storm Step Action: Rank up benefit reduced to .5 seconds and now provides half its cooldown reduction if dallies are used within 10 seconds of each other.
Split the Sky is now able to crit but damage has been reduced by 30%."
Devs, this was fixed right.. and why touch split the sky, its not that great to begin with. Why turn us into weird bag buffers. Who on your team wants this?
Just FYI, I'm goin OP on this and I know that i will be banging on other classes (which I sincerely apologize to those players of that class)not because I don't like them, but the fact of the matter they want to take what little abilities the HR have to make them worth having in Dungeons to be able to keep up with other classes and beat the class down instead of using alternate options.
There is so much I agree with in this Forum, I hope that the Dev's truly realize the TOTAL Screw up they are about to make.. Nerfing the HR's will not only get you ALOT of pissed off players that will most likely not want to play their HR anymore and move to a different class until it get brutalized with a spiked, dipped in poison, set on fire Nerf Bat, you will most likely lose 100's of players because of the extreme beating the HR's are taken, whats next? the CW's purple super OP exploding ball? or the DC's blackhole? I dont play those 2 classes so forgive me for the reference to the spell names..
my HR is 13.2K GS, my ArP is literally 21.9%, Crit strike right at 38-40% pending on summoned companions, power just over 5K, I've seen lesser geared CW's, GWF's and TR's beat my DPS by 1/2 million, wtf gives? I'm not trying to bang on other classes or my skill and style of play but ******.
If your Nerfing our Splitshot because of threat.. then crucifying the HR's only At'will that actually does decent AoE damage is the wrong approach! Adjust our Battlewise Feat. 6% is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for Threat reduction to the point why most HR's dont even bother choosing it.. I've seen TR's solo Epic bosses, I've seen CW's nuke Epic Bosses, even GWF's 13K GS with over 12K buff power and insane crit 1 shot elites. If its just a dps thing.. your focusing on the wrong classes. I have yet to see 1 HR even with 15K+ GS able to survive as well as a TR or CW,.. We have extreme short lived CC Grasping roots, which honestly 2-3 second hold time is not CC support.
Nerfing our at-wills like this and our encounters trying to push the HR's to a melee build is not what a ranger is.. if thats the case then Heck, I'll make a TR, GWF, or GF if i want to faceroll mobs. Rangers are "Range"er
how bout improving our nature build side? if you truly want to make us more versatile then a long distance AoE attack class, then give us better class feats or abilities to help support a better way. not beat us down with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
This will reduce and lessen for anyone to want to bring HR's to Epic dungeons especially the new upcoming content in Mod 3. IF these are not adjusted nor fixed or removed to bring our class to possibly being equal with the other classes, I might as well go back to my other MMO's where they dont get beat down as bad as this.
I feel compelled to weigh in on the current and proposed state of the HR class, even though I haven’t been 60 all that long and am only moderately geared (10.2k gs). Part of the reason for this, in my experience, is that HRs bring less to a group than an equally geared and skilled CW or GWF. Our damage is barely competitive and our control non-existent. For this reason I don’t group with my HR beyond skirmishes; I bring nothing to the table that another class can’t do better.
I do sincerely believe that you, the developers, are invested in making this game as enjoyable as possible for the player-base and designing each class to both have a role and be relevant in end-game content. I wouldn’t be writing this if I thought otherwise. At this point I have to ask a critical question: what is your design vision for this class? As it currently stands, HRs are primarily damage, with negligible support and control abilities. We do have control and support abilities, but they are either minimal, situational, or bugged (I’ve yet to see hindering shot hinder anything).
From a design perspective, there needs to be reciprocity between damage and control; having more of one should balance out by having less of the other. For instance, if split shot is going to do less damage, then it should add a slow effect and possibly cause prone status if fully charged. Similarly, electric shot, due to having very low damage, should push mobs away from the player in a small AoE.
Honestly, until you decide on a clear role for the HR and the Stormwarden path, I wouldn’t introduce the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder appears to have a more support/control focus, but, much like the Stormwarden, there just isn’t enough there yet that is fully developed to make the class competitive. If you feel the class is doing too much damage, then introduce more control abilities, or give existing abilities control effects – there is a big gap in the control area given that only the CW adequately fills it.
Bottom line: HRs are a fun class with a great deal of promise. Be less focused on individual abilities and more on how all the aspects of the class work together as a whole. If you reduce damage, add control or support to compensate.
Thanks for reading,
-Gar
P.S. Also, I'd start making abilities work differently in PVE and PVP; balancing for both just isn't feasible and will end up with either over- or under-powered classes in either one or the other. Just do it now, set the precedent, and get it over with. You'll have a better PVP experience and less angry players.
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simplyawfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 10
edited March 2014
I know many are really upset by the changes, but let's keep it respectful and productive or our concerns will be ignored.
Apologies for the incoming wall of text.
Feedback: Fox Shift, Split Shot, Split the Sky, Stormstep Action
Firstly, I note that the changes for Split the Sky and Stormstep Action appear not to be in the oriignal list here - could they be added, please?
I have HR characters/builds for all three trees, and have played dps builds for other classes (note this is PvE commentary, I don't PvP, and I am by no means setting myself up as The Expert on HR build efficiency, these are simply my views and experience):
Archery. Currently with similar gear levels I can (just) keep up with the damage output of a friend who runs a very damaging GWF and a few who run CWs. This is based partly on use of Split Shot. The GWF is substantially more survivable and the CWs all have far better crowd control abilities. Currently highly enjoyable to play both solo and grouped.
Combat. I built for health/survivability here (and it's good, very good) but as a result my damage comes in around a third of the GWF/CWs above - this is without Split Shot or Fox Shift being used. The GWF dies slightly more often but given the damage disparity and the extremity of my build that's not exactly unexpected. Highly enjoyable solo, fun grouped if I don't mind doing lower damage than others (the eagle-eyed will note I did not mention TR as high damage here - some runs I outdamage the TRs).
Nature. I have a full buff build, leaving my main damaging attacks as Split Shot, and Fox Shift when I slot for Fox's Cunning. This build can (depending on party mix and ability) substitute for a DC but groups are normally happy to run without a DC at all once damage output and lifesteal (or number of CWs in the party ) are high enough, and the damage is very low even with the current iterations of Split Shot and Fox Shift. Slow to solo with due to abandoning the dps Feats and selecting certain gear choices even if I switch in damaging powers, fun helping to keep a group alive but nothing to show for it on any of the leaderboards which means others are often ignorant of what you do for them (damage prevention does not show, simply healing/damage/kills, and the HR regen buff is relatively low healing compared to a player's personal lifesteal and regen). Nature suffers worst from the changes to the Stormstep Action Feat as you will want to apply the buffs as often as possible to keep the damage prevention going.
So, Archery currently (to a point anyway) can keep up with other dps classes, but that is based on use of Split Shot along with the best damaging Encounters, one of which is typically Fox Shift (the change to Split the Sky may even out, but many consider it low damage in the first place). Combat in my experience does less damage, substantially less if you want to survive melee in some of the more hectic dungeons (although the buff to Fox Shift immunity may help here). Nature already does the worst damage if you want to buff, and most groups are not interested in taking you anyway. Severely reducing the single-target (and AoE as well in the case of Split Shot) damage of two key powers and only buffing one power in return means HR becomes less desirable in all builds to varying degrees unless there are improvements to a range of other powers to compensate.
Looking specifically at Split Shot, this Encounter power is basically our quick AoE burst for packs of trash. The 45% reduction in damage hurts badly in a situation where a GWF or CW can nuke a pack down almost before you can cast a power like Split the Sky, and Rain of Arrows needs to be placed perfectly (and any knockbacks basically mean it is wasted) or have a CW use Arcane Singularity. Granted there are melee AoE Encounter powers, but an aggressively-played GWF has the pack half-dead before you even get there due to the sprint speed advantage between groups.
As a general question to the developers, is the HR class intended to do similar damage at top end to (for example) a dps build CW? If so, is the intention that this damage be proportionately from At-Wills/Encounters/Dailies in the same ratio as other classes?
My assumption has been that HR Encounters deliberately do less damage for three reasons:
Between the melee and ranged stances you have six Encounters available;
Which also means you potentially have more options available; and
At-Will attacks have in the past done a greater proportion of damage for HR than for other classes.
However, there are some problems with this.
Firstly, having more Encounters does not necessarily benefit you in terms of damage ouptut - there is sometimes an opportunity cost to using an Encounter over an At-Will if the At-Will does proportionately higher damage and the Encounter lower when compared to another class (which is why Split Shot is preferred to many Encounters). Basically, "Why should I use Encounter A when over the same casting time At-Will X does almost as much damage and instead I can slot Encounter B which buffs me?" Some will reply that HR gets too much value by having buffs as well as good At-Will damage, but when it comes down to it damage is often seen as king in parties, and CWs get control on top of their damage.
Secondly, switching stance takes a little time, can be interrupted (by stun, knockback etc) and may involve moving towards or away from the target to properly apply the effects (yes, we have a gap closer/opener, but that involves taking up two of our six Encounter slots).
Thirdly, if you want to fill a specific role (dps, buff) then you are actually relatively limited in what Encounter power pairings you can slot to maximise your potential (if we could slot the melee and ranged Encounters independently of each other that would be a different story).
Finally, the change to Split Shot damage alters the balance between At-WIll and Encounter damage substantially, apparently disproving the last reason.
Split Shot is not a high damage skill. If it was I would be using it all the time. I use it to open up then I use other skills. Split Shot has had it's damaged reduced before it doesn't need it again.
100% agree, This is an insane amount to reduce it by (even with the changes to power), you've all-ready done 30% off of it all-ready are you trying to make us hybrid ? and lets be honest no one will EVER go Melee for PVE, if you want to make it fair rework Storm Warden path to ranged only, add all ranged bonuses and a poison bleed skill And make Path Finder a Melle path so we have the choice
Despite the fact I considered HRs as OP class in the thread I posted a week ago, this nerf is too hard. This is not what you gotta nerf. Split Shot deals too much damage, hands down, but 45% is too much, 20% would be acceptable. Fox Shift is fine as it is.
IMO Constricting Arrow and Aspect of the Lone Wolf are the problem.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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l3g10nna1reMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
Despite the fact I considered HRs as OP class in the thread I posted a week ago, this nerf is too hard. This is not what you gotta nerf. Split Shot deals too much damage, hands down, but 45% is too much, 20% would be acceptable. Fox Shift is fine as it is.
IMO Constricting Arrow and Aspect of the Lone Wolf are the problem.
That's the thing its not overpowered, Our encounters are for utility mostly even the Daily's are not damage based
Based on Ranged,
ME -Utility
FC - Utility
Stag - Debuff/Utility
Binding shot - Utility
Constricting Shot - Utility
Hawk Shot - Don't get me started on this, This should be taken out stoned to death and then stricken from history
Dailys
Heal / Utility
Forest Ghost - Steath/Utility (Damage aspect of this based on one hit is not enough to call this a DPS attack)
D/Shot - Utility
Seismic Shot is Ok DPS if there all lined up like ducks but rarely do you have this kind of position
CSH -Again one of the most useless skills in game... truly who ever thought up this skill/daily needs to realise this skill is beyond hopeless and beyond redemption
and thats why we have split shot, with so many utility skills for E and D we need to have either good at wills or good ecounters so since our encounters are utlity mostly it makes sense Split shot needs to be good,
New HR path - useless and not interesting at all...
I won't comment split shot nerf...It's rather obvious. HR will become even more refused in dungs...HR already has simillar dmg to CW and much worse CC...
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rougedrogueMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 25
edited March 2014
I try not to moan a lot about nerfs, however, 45%? Where was this calculated from? This is ridiculously heavy-handed. What encounter do I have that will make up the difference? Why does every class I enjoy turn into the left-handed, red-headed stepchild.
The 45% damage reduction on split shot is really severe but I see why it's needed as in it's current form it's silly to use any other at-will.
However 45% is just way too much. Perhaps only the widest arc should get a 45% damage reduction. As the shot is aimed in more and more the damage should get closer what it currently does when full aimed. While increasing the amount of time it takes to get fully aimed by 10%.
mod note: this thread has been cleaned. as of the time of this note, the preview shard with the upcoming changes isn't even up for anyone to test so the barrage of speculative disrespectful and non-constructive feedback is unwarranted. even if it was up, you are still required to provide your feedback on these forums with respect and in a constructive manner.
that means if your feedback is rude, insulting, antagonistic, threatening, demanding and/or trolling, it will be cast into the lower depths.
PWE wants your feedback and may be pulling their data from multiple sources as to why they are making these changes. if you do not agree and after you've tested it, you feel strongly about it, by all means post about your experience and your feedback. just make sure that it is presented in a respectful and constructive manner.
all forum rules do apply in this thread. that includes threatening to quit, demands, off-topic references, etc. do not use this thread as a springboard to call for the nerfing of other classes. as was already stated, all classes are being looked at.
thank you.
DO NOT reply to this moderation note. instead, send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
Guardian Fighters are seeing their Knight Captain set bonus nerfed by ~45%, apparently because of how power works in Module 3. This is relevant, and let me explain why:
I suspect that what nobody's considering in this sea of knee-jerk outrage is that while the change to Split Shot is 45% on paper, in practice it may work out to be less. Additionally, other powers that aren't being changed might actually be a bit more effective in Module 3 than they are now.
I claim no crystal ball and I assert no certainty to my suspicions. I simply point out that the evidence is there to suggest that this outcome may be possible.
Additionally, further careful review and consideration leads me to believe that Pathfinder is actually a really good Paragon for Combat- and Hybrid-spec HRs. I'm certainly looking forward to it myself, considering how little of the Stormwarden path I currently use.
Guardian Fighters are seeing their Knight Captain set bonus nerfed by ~45%, apparently because of how power works in Module 3. This is relevant, and let me explain why:
I suspect that what nobody's considering in this sea of knee-jerk outrage is that while the change to Split Shot is 45% on paper, in practice it may work out to be less. Additionally, other powers that aren't being changed might actually be a bit more effective in Module 3 than they are now.
I claim no crystal ball and I assert no certainty to my suspicions. I simply point out that the evidence is there to suggest that this outcome may be possible.
Additionally, further careful review and consideration leads me to believe that Pathfinder is actually a really good Paragon for Combat- and Hybrid-spec HRs. I'm certainly looking forward to it myself, considering how little of the Stormwarden path I currently use.
If this, in fact , were the case, don't you think they would have said something to that effect.
Also wouldnt it also effect other classes, and as such would there be a lot of nerfs going around? some very high damage classes werent even touched. Sorry but I don't buy it.
and of course barely any feedback on anything really relevant to the new paragon path just split shot nerf on almost 90% of the 90 posts on this thread. Which hits stronger than any other attack on 5 targets its basically what people get for relying on it too much same thing happened to astral shield no one was bothering to use anything else or potions so it got nerfed.
ive never relied on it too much so it doesnt really affect my hr that much. 45% of 10k is still above 5k which is still heavier than almost any attack that hits more than one target from ranged besides perhaps chillstrike on tab for the cw.
I've known something like this was coming for a bit now; and they have probably waited to gather info while we've been playing since ranger came out and these changes are a result of that info then again all speculation but then so is this nerf it might not even be that bad when it drops depending on the actual feedback besides "this nerf is garbage" or other such fiddlefaddle.
and you cant blame them for being flamed out of their own feedback thread i wouldnt respond to this either if i was a dev.
plus they say they've fixed forest meditation now all they need to do is fix oakskins effect for in-party deflection and most the bugs in hr are almost all gone.
I actually think that PF paragon might even be decent. The atwills sound more like a type of favored enemy type of ability especially with the feats and ambush and bear trap encounters sound pretty sweet for the stuns and increased damage and stealth I might even make a melee ranger just for it I havent tested it but i certainly will be willing to try it out on my archer and nature rangers to see what I can come up with.
i have suggested in the past that thornstrike could do what the thorn fey do in the skirmish and wrap the target in barbs that harm other enemies around the target for a set duration.
As for the splitshot nerf I think 30% is a more fair compromise and it may at least appease some players worry.
Honestly we sit and wait and every time someone comes out to ruin it by complaining that this is better this sucks but rarely do we sit and actually try and help out this isnt face book where we are free to make snide comments about the game thats what the depths are for.
the point of these feedbacks are to provide a players perspective not complain the more actual feedback we put here the better idea of the state of the game that the devs have and the more likely that these nerfs wont even come to pass as they are now.
if they didnt care they wouldnt bother asking for feedback.
Comments
Second - Split Shot
Last one - Storm Step
Just nerf constrict too, make it a self killing blow. R.I.P HR.
Idk how u guys feel but atm i can just laugh:D
They already did, now u can dodge the first hit and avoid the debuff completly. No other debuff works like that, since even when u dodge it u just avoid the dmg but u still have the debuff on u.
Edit: HR is the only class with an dodge skill that cant dodge the debuff:D
I've actually been wondering about that lately.
Why is it that when I dodge Ray of Enfeeblement, conduit of ice, et-al... I still get the debuff, but Constricting Arrow was changed so that it does not (unless you, too, are an HR).
Have you guys lost your ever loving minds? A 45% dmg reduction on the only viable at-will skill HR's have sounded like a good idea? Should I just start throwing water balloons at everything now?
Seriously, as it has already been stated numerous times in this thread, Spilt Shot could use some reduction (20% tops IMHO) but a 45% nerf is far too much. If you're going to nerf the only worthwhile at-will skill HR's have by 45% then you have got to buff the other At-will skills so that we can at least be on par with other classes.
For Christ's sake, HRs went from doing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor dmg on the preview for mod2 to relatively good dmg on live and now you want to take us back to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor dmg? Make up you god **** minds already. And as I've been begging for it with every round of nerfs I guess I'll say it again.
Stop ****ing with my PvE built toons to balance PvP which I don't give a **** about!
+1
Mod 3 changes:
Binding arrow: Has a 45% chance to root a single enemy when used within 10'.
Utterly amazing. Not much reason to play HR after this goes live. Really heartbreaking.
PS... Am I reading correctly that GWF's just got alot of damage increases? Isnt the complaint that they already steamroll everyone.
Fix existing bugs first, then start modifying. This is principle in system development.
If you don't follow this fundamental rule, your system will be messed up no matter how much effort you make.
Nerfing Fox Shift and Split Shot, will reduce the HR's dps potential. But shouldn't pure dps classes "do" dps better than classes for which dps is a hybrid or secondary goal? And if that broken relationship can't be fixed right now because of design or production constraints, shouldn't the doctor at least try to avoid harming the patient any worse?
Buffing Thorn Ward is great, but TW entirely offset the lost damage from Fox Shift and Split Shot. Why not roll out some improvements to many of the other underpowered HR powers at the same time as the nerfs to Fox Shift and Split Shot? There are some EASY low-hanging fruit that you could fix with minimal time and effort, as others have already pointed out in this thread. People who are currently demonizing you would be singing your praises instead, AND you'd have a cleaner, more elegant, and more enjoyable game. This would be a WIN/WIN situation.
Where have you seen anyone from Cryptic say that HR is pure DPS?
This is devestating
Devs, this was fixed right.. and why touch split the sky, its not that great to begin with. Why turn us into weird bag buffers. Who on your team wants this?
There is so much I agree with in this Forum, I hope that the Dev's truly realize the TOTAL Screw up they are about to make.. Nerfing the HR's will not only get you ALOT of pissed off players that will most likely not want to play their HR anymore and move to a different class until it get brutalized with a spiked, dipped in poison, set on fire Nerf Bat, you will most likely lose 100's of players because of the extreme beating the HR's are taken, whats next? the CW's purple super OP exploding ball? or the DC's blackhole? I dont play those 2 classes so forgive me for the reference to the spell names..
my HR is 13.2K GS, my ArP is literally 21.9%, Crit strike right at 38-40% pending on summoned companions, power just over 5K, I've seen lesser geared CW's, GWF's and TR's beat my DPS by 1/2 million, wtf gives? I'm not trying to bang on other classes or my skill and style of play but ******.
If your Nerfing our Splitshot because of threat.. then crucifying the HR's only At'will that actually does decent AoE damage is the wrong approach! Adjust our Battlewise Feat. 6% is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for Threat reduction to the point why most HR's dont even bother choosing it.. I've seen TR's solo Epic bosses, I've seen CW's nuke Epic Bosses, even GWF's 13K GS with over 12K buff power and insane crit 1 shot elites. If its just a dps thing.. your focusing on the wrong classes. I have yet to see 1 HR even with 15K+ GS able to survive as well as a TR or CW,.. We have extreme short lived CC Grasping roots, which honestly 2-3 second hold time is not CC support.
Nerfing our at-wills like this and our encounters trying to push the HR's to a melee build is not what a ranger is.. if thats the case then Heck, I'll make a TR, GWF, or GF if i want to faceroll mobs. Rangers are "Range"er
how bout improving our nature build side? if you truly want to make us more versatile then a long distance AoE attack class, then give us better class feats or abilities to help support a better way. not beat us down with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
This will reduce and lessen for anyone to want to bring HR's to Epic dungeons especially the new upcoming content in Mod 3. IF these are not adjusted nor fixed or removed to bring our class to possibly being equal with the other classes, I might as well go back to my other MMO's where they dont get beat down as bad as this.
I feel compelled to weigh in on the current and proposed state of the HR class, even though I haven’t been 60 all that long and am only moderately geared (10.2k gs). Part of the reason for this, in my experience, is that HRs bring less to a group than an equally geared and skilled CW or GWF. Our damage is barely competitive and our control non-existent. For this reason I don’t group with my HR beyond skirmishes; I bring nothing to the table that another class can’t do better.
I do sincerely believe that you, the developers, are invested in making this game as enjoyable as possible for the player-base and designing each class to both have a role and be relevant in end-game content. I wouldn’t be writing this if I thought otherwise. At this point I have to ask a critical question: what is your design vision for this class? As it currently stands, HRs are primarily damage, with negligible support and control abilities. We do have control and support abilities, but they are either minimal, situational, or bugged (I’ve yet to see hindering shot hinder anything).
From a design perspective, there needs to be reciprocity between damage and control; having more of one should balance out by having less of the other. For instance, if split shot is going to do less damage, then it should add a slow effect and possibly cause prone status if fully charged. Similarly, electric shot, due to having very low damage, should push mobs away from the player in a small AoE.
Honestly, until you decide on a clear role for the HR and the Stormwarden path, I wouldn’t introduce the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder appears to have a more support/control focus, but, much like the Stormwarden, there just isn’t enough there yet that is fully developed to make the class competitive. If you feel the class is doing too much damage, then introduce more control abilities, or give existing abilities control effects – there is a big gap in the control area given that only the CW adequately fills it.
Bottom line: HRs are a fun class with a great deal of promise. Be less focused on individual abilities and more on how all the aspects of the class work together as a whole. If you reduce damage, add control or support to compensate.
Thanks for reading,
-Gar
P.S. Also, I'd start making abilities work differently in PVE and PVP; balancing for both just isn't feasible and will end up with either over- or under-powered classes in either one or the other. Just do it now, set the precedent, and get it over with. You'll have a better PVP experience and less angry players.
Apologies for the incoming wall of text.
Feedback: Fox Shift, Split Shot, Split the Sky, Stormstep Action
Firstly, I note that the changes for Split the Sky and Stormstep Action appear not to be in the oriignal list here - could they be added, please?
I have HR characters/builds for all three trees, and have played dps builds for other classes (note this is PvE commentary, I don't PvP, and I am by no means setting myself up as The Expert on HR build efficiency, these are simply my views and experience):
Archery. Currently with similar gear levels I can (just) keep up with the damage output of a friend who runs a very damaging GWF and a few who run CWs. This is based partly on use of Split Shot. The GWF is substantially more survivable and the CWs all have far better crowd control abilities. Currently highly enjoyable to play both solo and grouped.
Combat. I built for health/survivability here (and it's good, very good) but as a result my damage comes in around a third of the GWF/CWs above - this is without Split Shot or Fox Shift being used. The GWF dies slightly more often but given the damage disparity and the extremity of my build that's not exactly unexpected. Highly enjoyable solo, fun grouped if I don't mind doing lower damage than others (the eagle-eyed will note I did not mention TR as high damage here - some runs I outdamage the TRs).
Nature. I have a full buff build, leaving my main damaging attacks as Split Shot, and Fox Shift when I slot for Fox's Cunning. This build can (depending on party mix and ability) substitute for a DC but groups are normally happy to run without a DC at all once damage output and lifesteal (or number of CWs in the party
So, Archery currently (to a point anyway) can keep up with other dps classes, but that is based on use of Split Shot along with the best damaging Encounters, one of which is typically Fox Shift (the change to Split the Sky may even out, but many consider it low damage in the first place). Combat in my experience does less damage, substantially less if you want to survive melee in some of the more hectic dungeons (although the buff to Fox Shift immunity may help here). Nature already does the worst damage if you want to buff, and most groups are not interested in taking you anyway. Severely reducing the single-target (and AoE as well in the case of Split Shot) damage of two key powers and only buffing one power in return means HR becomes less desirable in all builds to varying degrees unless there are improvements to a range of other powers to compensate.
Looking specifically at Split Shot, this Encounter power is basically our quick AoE burst for packs of trash. The 45% reduction in damage hurts badly in a situation where a GWF or CW can nuke a pack down almost before you can cast a power like Split the Sky, and Rain of Arrows needs to be placed perfectly (and any knockbacks basically mean it is wasted) or have a CW use Arcane Singularity. Granted there are melee AoE Encounter powers, but an aggressively-played GWF has the pack half-dead before you even get there due to the sprint speed advantage between groups.
As a general question to the developers, is the HR class intended to do similar damage at top end to (for example) a dps build CW? If so, is the intention that this damage be proportionately from At-Wills/Encounters/Dailies in the same ratio as other classes?
My assumption has been that HR Encounters deliberately do less damage for three reasons:
However, there are some problems with this.
Firstly, having more Encounters does not necessarily benefit you in terms of damage ouptut - there is sometimes an opportunity cost to using an Encounter over an At-Will if the At-Will does proportionately higher damage and the Encounter lower when compared to another class (which is why Split Shot is preferred to many Encounters). Basically, "Why should I use Encounter A when over the same casting time At-Will X does almost as much damage and instead I can slot Encounter B which buffs me?" Some will reply that HR gets too much value by having buffs as well as good At-Will damage, but when it comes down to it damage is often seen as king in parties, and CWs get control on top of their damage.
Secondly, switching stance takes a little time, can be interrupted (by stun, knockback etc) and may involve moving towards or away from the target to properly apply the effects (yes, we have a gap closer/opener, but that involves taking up two of our six Encounter slots).
Thirdly, if you want to fill a specific role (dps, buff) then you are actually relatively limited in what Encounter power pairings you can slot to maximise your potential (if we could slot the melee and ranged Encounters independently of each other that would be a different story).
Finally, the change to Split Shot damage alters the balance between At-WIll and Encounter damage substantially, apparently disproving the last reason.
Split Shot dmg reduced by 45%
Are you joking? That's an unacceptable nerf.
100% agree, This is an insane amount to reduce it by (even with the changes to power), you've all-ready done 30% off of it all-ready are you trying to make us hybrid ? and lets be honest no one will EVER go Melee for PVE, if you want to make it fair rework Storm Warden path to ranged only, add all ranged bonuses and a poison bleed skill And make Path Finder a Melle path so we have the choice
IMO Constricting Arrow and Aspect of the Lone Wolf are the problem.
That's the thing its not overpowered, Our encounters are for utility mostly even the Daily's are not damage based
Based on Ranged,
ME -Utility
FC - Utility
Stag - Debuff/Utility
Binding shot - Utility
Constricting Shot - Utility
Hawk Shot - Don't get me started on this, This should be taken out stoned to death and then stricken from history
Dailys
Heal / Utility
Forest Ghost - Steath/Utility (Damage aspect of this based on one hit is not enough to call this a DPS attack)
D/Shot - Utility
Seismic Shot is Ok DPS if there all lined up like ducks but rarely do you have this kind of position
CSH -Again one of the most useless skills in game... truly who ever thought up this skill/daily needs to realise this skill is beyond hopeless and beyond redemption
and thats why we have split shot, with so many utility skills for E and D we need to have either good at wills or good ecounters so since our encounters are utlity mostly it makes sense Split shot needs to be good,
I won't comment split shot nerf...It's rather obvious. HR will become even more refused in dungs...HR already has simillar dmg to CW and much worse CC...
However 45% is just way too much. Perhaps only the widest arc should get a 45% damage reduction. As the shot is aimed in more and more the damage should get closer what it currently does when full aimed. While increasing the amount of time it takes to get fully aimed by 10%.
that means if your feedback is rude, insulting, antagonistic, threatening, demanding and/or trolling, it will be cast into the lower depths.
PWE wants your feedback and may be pulling their data from multiple sources as to why they are making these changes. if you do not agree and after you've tested it, you feel strongly about it, by all means post about your experience and your feedback. just make sure that it is presented in a respectful and constructive manner.
all forum rules do apply in this thread. that includes threatening to quit, demands, off-topic references, etc. do not use this thread as a springboard to call for the nerfing of other classes. as was already stated, all classes are being looked at.
thank you.
DO NOT reply to this moderation note. instead, send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
I suspect that what nobody's considering in this sea of knee-jerk outrage is that while the change to Split Shot is 45% on paper, in practice it may work out to be less. Additionally, other powers that aren't being changed might actually be a bit more effective in Module 3 than they are now.
I claim no crystal ball and I assert no certainty to my suspicions. I simply point out that the evidence is there to suggest that this outcome may be possible.
Additionally, further careful review and consideration leads me to believe that Pathfinder is actually a really good Paragon for Combat- and Hybrid-spec HRs. I'm certainly looking forward to it myself, considering how little of the Stormwarden path I currently use.
If this, in fact , were the case, don't you think they would have said something to that effect.
Also wouldnt it also effect other classes, and as such would there be a lot of nerfs going around? some very high damage classes werent even touched. Sorry but I don't buy it.
ive never relied on it too much so it doesnt really affect my hr that much. 45% of 10k is still above 5k which is still heavier than almost any attack that hits more than one target from ranged besides perhaps chillstrike on tab for the cw.
I've known something like this was coming for a bit now; and they have probably waited to gather info while we've been playing since ranger came out and these changes are a result of that info then again all speculation but then so is this nerf it might not even be that bad when it drops depending on the actual feedback besides "this nerf is garbage" or other such fiddlefaddle.
and you cant blame them for being flamed out of their own feedback thread i wouldnt respond to this either if i was a dev.
plus they say they've fixed forest meditation now all they need to do is fix oakskins effect for in-party deflection and most the bugs in hr are almost all gone.
I actually think that PF paragon might even be decent. The atwills sound more like a type of favored enemy type of ability especially with the feats and ambush and bear trap encounters sound pretty sweet for the stuns and increased damage and stealth I might even make a melee ranger just for it I havent tested it but i certainly will be willing to try it out on my archer and nature rangers to see what I can come up with.
i have suggested in the past that thornstrike could do what the thorn fey do in the skirmish and wrap the target in barbs that harm other enemies around the target for a set duration.
As for the splitshot nerf I think 30% is a more fair compromise and it may at least appease some players worry.
Honestly we sit and wait and every time someone comes out to ruin it by complaining that this is better this sucks but rarely do we sit and actually try and help out this isnt face book where we are free to make snide comments about the game thats what the depths are for.
the point of these feedbacks are to provide a players perspective not complain the more actual feedback we put here the better idea of the state of the game that the devs have and the more likely that these nerfs wont even come to pass as they are now.
if they didnt care they wouldnt bother asking for feedback.