Just out of interest: Does the matchmaking factor in class balance? It's annoying when you get matched up against multiple GWFs and have none on your side. That's an automatic loss even with same ELOs.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
That is above my pay grade but I agree group compositions have a serious impact on the outcome.
One of the last PvP matches I was in comprised of 2 GWFs, A Cleric, A Trickster Rogue and a Control Wizard against 2 Hunter Rangers, A Guardian Fighter, and 2 Control Wizards.
This was prior to the balance changes but yeah, it was quite hopeless. The sustain and CC immunity of two GWFs and with a cleric was just ungodly.
It should match based on team compositions in my opinion but I am not aware if it does. I would assume not though as I would have expected that to be noted.
One of the last PvP matches I was in comprised of 2 GWFs, A Cleric, A Trickster Rogue and a Control Wizard against 2 Hunter Rangers, A Guardian Fighter, and 2 Control Wizards.
This was prior to the balance changes but yeah, it was quite hopeless. The sustain and CC immunity of two GWFs and with a cleric was just ungodly.
It should match based on team compositions in my opinion but I am not aware if it does. I would assume not though as I would have expected that to be noted.
I'm not convinced that it should. The more "picky" the match criteria, the harder it is to find matches, and the longer the queues. Even tightening the ELO window a bit makes the queues noticeably longer; multiple factors will make it ungodly
To an extent, the team makeup issue is really the premade vs pug issue write larger, and probably self-limiting. If you play with a "deck stacking" team that steamrollers people, it will be successful. If you solo queue, you will be in a PUG team. If that deck stacking team continues to queue as a team, the members will get higher ELOs, and run into a lot more premades, whose ELO has been increased the same way.
A lot of high ELO players will be those who PvP a lot. If they're high ELO, they win a lot against good players, and they also do not PUG a great deal. You will see a sort of "natural selection" where there will be less variation in PUG vs premade and team composition, towards the right hand side of the bell curve. It will not be entirely uniform, there are always outliers, but the general trends will likely not be too suprising.
(Note the measured use of "less" and "a lot", before anyone angrily attempts an absolutism-based straw man response.)
Of course, it takes quite a long time for such a system to "settle down", and it will be a mess at first. Also, reducing its effect in favour of queue times will make some of the beneficial effects less apparent, and increase the time that it will take to establish properly. This makes it a tricky judgement call, requiring a feedback loop of small adjustments and observation over time. For those without proper access to instrumentation/data, it will be hard to spot what's going on, due to the "frog boiling" effect.
Aaanyway. It's frequently less clear than people thing, but adding all sorts of special case modifiers will probably sabotage the principle benefits of the system, and increase queue times in an undesirable way- ironically, necessitating further "dialling back" of any ELO influence, creating a vicious circle.
Thus, I really hope that proper nerds are in charge of this stuff at Cryptic, rather than the sort of "passionate" PvPers who seem to demand various spurious and half-baked bits of second-guessing
(Meanwhile, though it's a mess and the queue sucks occasionally, I am finding that PvP contains far fewer facerolls in either direction for me; maybe I am just the luckiest duck on the lake.)
A lot of high ELO players will be those who PvP a lot.
It is quite boring when i met someone repeatedly (especially GWFs) when i pvp for 2 hours. Same guy in your team, sometimes in the opposite, after some hours finally got some new names in both teams, and the scenario will repeat in an hour again.
It is quite boring when i met someone repeatedly (especially GWFs) when i pvp for 2 hours. Same guy in your team, sometimes in the opposite, after some hours finally got some new names in both teams, and the scenario will repeat in an hour again.
Yep, and the higherup the rankings you go, the more it will thin out. The benefits of mediocrity!
Comments
One of the last PvP matches I was in comprised of 2 GWFs, A Cleric, A Trickster Rogue and a Control Wizard against 2 Hunter Rangers, A Guardian Fighter, and 2 Control Wizards.
This was prior to the balance changes but yeah, it was quite hopeless. The sustain and CC immunity of two GWFs and with a cleric was just ungodly.
It should match based on team compositions in my opinion but I am not aware if it does. I would assume not though as I would have expected that to be noted.
I'll ask if I can.
I'm not convinced that it should. The more "picky" the match criteria, the harder it is to find matches, and the longer the queues. Even tightening the ELO window a bit makes the queues noticeably longer; multiple factors will make it ungodly
To an extent, the team makeup issue is really the premade vs pug issue write larger, and probably self-limiting. If you play with a "deck stacking" team that steamrollers people, it will be successful. If you solo queue, you will be in a PUG team. If that deck stacking team continues to queue as a team, the members will get higher ELOs, and run into a lot more premades, whose ELO has been increased the same way.
A lot of high ELO players will be those who PvP a lot. If they're high ELO, they win a lot against good players, and they also do not PUG a great deal. You will see a sort of "natural selection" where there will be less variation in PUG vs premade and team composition, towards the right hand side of the bell curve. It will not be entirely uniform, there are always outliers, but the general trends will likely not be too suprising.
(Note the measured use of "less" and "a lot", before anyone angrily attempts an absolutism-based straw man response.)
Of course, it takes quite a long time for such a system to "settle down", and it will be a mess at first. Also, reducing its effect in favour of queue times will make some of the beneficial effects less apparent, and increase the time that it will take to establish properly. This makes it a tricky judgement call, requiring a feedback loop of small adjustments and observation over time. For those without proper access to instrumentation/data, it will be hard to spot what's going on, due to the "frog boiling" effect.
Aaanyway. It's frequently less clear than people thing, but adding all sorts of special case modifiers will probably sabotage the principle benefits of the system, and increase queue times in an undesirable way- ironically, necessitating further "dialling back" of any ELO influence, creating a vicious circle.
Thus, I really hope that proper nerds are in charge of this stuff at Cryptic, rather than the sort of "passionate" PvPers who seem to demand various spurious and half-baked bits of second-guessing
(Meanwhile, though it's a mess and the queue sucks occasionally, I am finding that PvP contains far fewer facerolls in either direction for me; maybe I am just the luckiest duck on the lake.)
It is quite boring when i met someone repeatedly (especially GWFs) when i pvp for 2 hours. Same guy in your team, sometimes in the opposite, after some hours finally got some new names in both teams, and the scenario will repeat in an hour again.
Yep, and the higherup the rankings you go, the more it will thin out. The benefits of mediocrity!