If GC was like that, people would light the torches and bring out the pitchfork and the noose, and start hunting our kind to oblivion, tod.
Sounds interesting, and reasonable.
True that. Gloaming Cut wasn't that powerful to begin with and got the buffs it deserved when Live Launch came. I just hope that if ever Threatening Rush gets balanced, it'd be done properly. I can understand what Embracemysword is saying. The GWF class, since Closed Beta, has also been receiving quite a few nerfs of their own. They were strong in CB, end of CB they got a couple of other nerfs, Open Beta came with a couple more nerfs, Live Launch came with some good buffs but they got slammed with some other nerfs pre or post mod 1 after that because of Swordmaster Sents being too godly with high gear.
It's only now that GWF's are getting their due share of the limelight, albeit it being too much from TR + Deep Gash being in T1 Destroyer which gives Sents (who are supposed to be tanks) access to high bursts of DPS.
another solution to this may be to re-think the paragon paths of the GWF and the GF. while they both are fighter classes, there is a major difference between their tab skills.
I've been saying this since thier inclusion of sharing each other's skills.
The paragon path skills should not be literal carbon copies of the other. They should be the similar but with different functions accustomed to the class that uses them.
For instance,
The threatening rush animation length didnt need the animation extension, because GF's needed that for thier gap closers (because they have a more difficult time keeping up on thier opponents). Where GF's are conditioned to break gaps to thier opponents.
The same principle could also be applied to Threatening Rush. Give it a slow windup, make it hit a harder (a better alternative since what's making this At-Will OP for GWF's is its spam-ability), and limit its range a little. This way, targets may be able to move out of Threatening Rush's area if they are fast enough or if they can dodge away before it lands. It could also be possible to add a mechanic similar to what we see from Lunging Strike just recently, where it deals damage to enemies behind the primary target. Just so that the loss of being able to spam this At-Will to close gaps infinitely is properly made up for.
This would work good for it too if it worked like this for GWF's.
GF's Flourish should give give something other than a stun, but more like a dazing strike that grants a while after the hit was given. (since the attack is incredibly weak), or simply increase the damage calculation of the skill. (since all of the sword master skills for GF is calculating as if they are using a greatsword)
And Weapon Master's strike for GF should do something different than it does for GWF. Such as increasing your run speed with each strike by X for a max of X stacks. (going for a buff for the fighter instead of a debuff on the monsters)
Just simple adjustments between the two classes with the same paragon paths instead of getting literal exact copies of the other.
The most nerfed class in NW is the GWF, because of people who have an intellectual disadvantage. Not to sound rude, but people have different intelligence - grades. An intelligent person with bad items, kills a dumb person with BiS equip any day. I think that this is what many people are actually experiencing. Read the PE Zone chat or any type of chat to get an idea of the average IQ most of NW's cummunity members are sporting.
I came up with this theory, because the interval and consitency with which bs - nerf threads are being opened, about every possible GWF aspect is just insane. I mean this is happening on a daily basis, it isn't funny anymore and i am concerned.
Someone who posted this has the nerve to claim others are intellectually disadvantaged, now I've seen it all.
Ofcourse, you don't see this in NW, because ranged never beats the GWF. Things go similarly for the first 5 seconds, and then bam. Unstoppable. Game over.
Unstoppable is not as effective now and not as frequent. Tenacity did bring a nerf over that (too lazy to explain all the process)
You know why 90%+ of the TR population uses the stealthed-ranged build? Because staying in combat range with melee at-wills is helluva difficult thing to accomplish in NW... and the only way most TRs really use melee attacks is when they just do the hit-and-run (as with LB) or land a stealthed DF against a stationary person.
Threatening Rush is an at-will hat should have remained exclusive to GFs only, since their lack of damage and mobility. The IV path should never have been given to GWFs in the first place.
I have to disagree, Threatening Rush has a strategic component in the mark and is nice to have that on both soldier classes.
Remember, this patch made the GWF bearable by bringing them down from 'unkillable' to 'manageable' levels. That don't mean the number of problems with GWFs don't exist anymore.
I agree with you: it was. With the pvp patch gwf did receive nerfs across the board and i dont think enough time passed to have an educated opinion about those changes, as if the were enough or not.
Maybe is still too powerful, tho from my experience doesnt seem so, unlike the Shocking Execution.Maybe only certain artifacts makes them too powerful and then those need to be addressed and not a skill, or just maybe some are just better players or have better connection and you just wont be able to beat them (i have been in that situation also).
The same principle could also be applied to Threatening Rush. Give it a slow windup, make it hit a harder (a better alternative since what's making this At-Will OP for GWF's is its spam-ability), and limit its range a little. This way, targets may be able to move out of Threatening Rush's area if they are fast enough or if they can dodge away before it lands. It could also be possible to add a mechanic similar to what we see from Lunging Strike just recently, where it deals damage to enemies behind the primary target. Just so that the loss of being able to spam this At-Will to close gaps infinitely is properly made up for.
And the GF, whom that power and path were originally intended for? Or don't we care if we make the slowest class even slower? It is hard enough trying to catch a decent HR/CW with Threatening & Lunging, now you would like to mess Threatening up?
Nerf anything on the Vanguard tree because of the GWF and you kick the GF square in the nuts. Vanguard is a GFs means of standing a chance in both PvE (how many Swordmaster GFs have you seen?) & PvP, it isn't an OP vanity-spec a la IV Sent.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
And the GF, whom that power and path were originally intended for? Or don't we care if we make the slowest class even slower? It is hard enough trying to catch a decent HR/CW with Threatening & Lunging, now you would like to mess Threatening up?
Nerf anything on the Vanguard tree because of the GWF and you kick the GF square in the nuts. Vanguard is a GFs means of standing a chance in both PvE (how many Swordmaster GFs have you seen?) & PvP, it isn't an OP vanity-spec a la IV Sent.
A simpler fix then. Remove Threatening Rush as an IV provided at-will, move it to GF common at-will, and then put in something else.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A simpler fix then. Remove Threatening Rush as an IV provided at-will, move it to GF common at-will, and then put in something else.
I suggest "Execution Stealth Rush", that closes on enemy, immobilizes them with great fear, then decapitates them. All this while GWF is immune to damage and stealthed. Can be spammed.
My only concern is that it would make encounters obsolete, but other than that seems very appropriate
I suggest "Execution Stealth Rush", that closes on enemy, immobilizes them with great fear, then decapitates them. All this while GWF is immune to damage and stealthed. Can be spammed.
My only concern is that it would make encounters obsolete, but other than that seems very appropriate
I was more thinking of the "Insidious Leg Trip". The GWF rushes in with lightning speed, and then kicks the shin of the target and makes it fall. Can be spammed. So when you square off with the GWF, he rushes in and trips you. You get up, then you fall down again. And again. And again. And again.
Ofcourse, this power is by no means OP. It's damage will be like 500 at max.. so the GWF needs to trip you 60 times in a row to kill your 30k HP toon. Yup, such a low damage power. Not OP at all.
(ps) Who's the frickin' idiot that said 0.6 seconds knock duration nerf + Tenacity is going to solve the AoE/ranged chain-proning no-brainer bullshi* easymode that every GWF so loves to use? I'm targetting him with my "Insidious Leg Trip" until he dies of falling.
If he starts ranting that this power is OP, we'll lower its damage by 25% and in compensation make it an AoE power that hits 5 people in the frontal 180d angle. Yeah, that's an adequate nerf.
*snort*
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
(ps) Who's the frickin' idiot that said 0.6 seconds knock duration nerf + Tenacity is going to solve the AoE/ranged chain-proning no-brainer bullshi* easymode that every GWF so loves to use?.
It's pretty messed up that this is even in the game. It is seriously the easiest easy mode build I have ever seen in any game.
Oh my word why does it always come down to "nerf this" or "nerf that", when the devs should actually be buffing the classes that need it, its ridiculous, the main problem in pvp at the moment is 90% of the player base are morons who don't know how to play (fighting off nodes, chasing the TR around the map, most of them haven't even understood yet that when standing on a node you are contesting it, and no points are being gained, not even going to mention the button smashers who have no clue how or when to use a simple rotation) those same morons are the ones demanding nerfs .
I do agree that the classes are not all equal and something should be done, but please stop demanding nerfs and learn how to play your class and the game !
Cryptic please add pvp tutorials (notice the plural) that must be accomplished before even being able to Q for pvp, it wont solve all the problems but it would be a good start .
I've been playing since July GWF class. But really bored after the Vanguard patch, because I was killing everyone. I liked initially, but a game that is not even give a chance to other players, too boring.
1-I did not use any enchantment. Result number of the most kills.
2-I've used the blue equipment + no enchantment. Result number of the most kills.
Anyway, where I was due to this imbalance, we did tests to find out.
The easiest solution make THREATENING RUSH (At-Will) 3 sec cooldown.
First of all - English be like : " why you no learn me ?! " . Second.. you did tests ? Nice try. Now move along please.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Oh my word why does it always come down to "nerf this" or "nerf that", when the devs should actually be buffing the classes that need it, its ridiculous, the main problem in pvp at the moment is 90% of the player base are morons who don't know how to play (fighting off nodes, chasing the TR around the map, most of them haven't even understood yet that when standing on a node you are contesting it, and no points are being gained, not even going to mention the button smashers who have no clue how or when to use a simple rotation) those same morons are the ones demanding nerfs .
I do agree that the classes are not all equal and something should be done, but please stop demanding nerfs and learn how to play your class and the game !
Cryptic please add pvp tutorials (notice the plural) that must be accomplished before even being able to Q for pvp, it wont solve all the problems but it would be a good start .
the main problem in pvp at the moment is 90% of the player base are morons who don't know how to play
And I assume you think you are NOT part of these 90%?
Why do you keep playing this game if you consider 90% of the player base if they are so much inferior to your intellect?
Why don't you teach them? You seem to have the smarts!
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
And I assume you think you are NOT part of these 90%?
Why do you keep playing this game if you consider 90% of the player base if they are so much inferior to your intellect?
Why don't you teach them? You seem to have the smarts!
There are countless posts and guides about PvP. For example, i've been posting since ages to explain people how to fight GWFs. Yet, i often find myself cursing my team mates cause when i'm fighting a sentinel they suddenly butt in and start spamming at-wills making him stay in unstoppable all the time. Then i come here on the forums and read some smart guy who just made a post or a nerf request about "unstoppable is so OP GWF are INVULNERABLE all the time what is that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> i can't kill them they're Always big and RED!!!!111!!!one!!!"
Also, even though after this patch, GWFs have bee brought back to normal and can't tank 3-4-5 enemies alone anymore, today a smart guy in my team, when we were losing by few points, asked in Group chat "how are we losing??? We have 2 GWFs!!!". In the meanwhile, a enemy TR was playing around and engaging the other 3 players of our team at our base. And winning.
We won eventually, but i kept thinking that if people is still there talking about "GWFs" as if there is only the sentinel tank build, and thinking that if you have more "GWFs (generic)" in your team, you MUST win, then we have a LOOOOOOONG way to go before they actually understand how PvP works.
A large majority of players don't know how to build for PvP, how to gear for PvP, how to fight in PvP, and how other classes work. And often the don't even know how their own class work.
You're **** strait I am not part of those 90% of utterly clueless players, sometimes I wonder if they aren't doing it on purpose .
That said I am not a pretentious *** like you tried portraying me, and I do not believe myself superior to anyone, as for the teaching part believe me I have done my fair share of hand holding, but should this really be up to us to do? why should I care about some random pug?
The truth is, if some one gets his butt kicked repeatedly by any specific class, they come here to cry a river, demanding nerfs, I know for a fact that anyone who knows how to play his class can kill any of the other classes even the ones considered to be OP (with an exception for DC and to a lesser degree the GF), I am talking about the people who have built/rerolled a character specifically for pvp, the ones who have really mastered their class, not the ones who think they have .
The reason those whiners get beat are from lack of skill or lack of gear, seriously how can a fresh level 60 with blue gear hope to beat the upper tier pvper's who (for the most part) have epic gear, rank 10s, legendary artifacts, perfect enchants, the works, well the answer is simple, they cannot, nor should they expect to, I am talking about players who have reached end game, the you cant get any better level, going up against fresh toons which take a grand total of 3 days to reach level cap from scratch, why should they expect to beat a person that has put months in his or her toon? this is where the problem is at, well that and people who cant build a character properly, are using pve spec'ed toons in pvp, are using the wrong set of powers/passives/dailies, those for who 7 buttons on a keyboard is just way too complicated, or like those I have touched upon already who still haven't figured out how pvp works or how their own class works, take your pick .
Like it has been suggested many times simple fix, give us a premade Q, and a pug Q, give everyone mandatory pvp tutorials that must be achieved before getting access to pvp (so level 10) heck throw in another one at level 60 for good measure .
Edit : Didn't see the above post by pando this this and this especially for that last part .
A large majority of players don't know how to build for PvP, how to gear for PvP, how to fight in PvP, and how other classes work. And often the don't even know how their own class work.
Given that the vast vast majority of the content is pve and to build a character that is good for pvp you need different feats, gear, ability scores and stats and the extent to which simply better gear changes outcomes that shouldn't be any kind of surprise.
And to the guy above me you shouldn't have any advantage in a game that you didn't earn that game. That's how it is in real pvp games for a reason. Imagine a chess tournament where you have bring your own pieces but buying each individual piece costs a hundred dollars a pop. Some people will have more pieces than others giving them an unfair advantage and quickly people would lose interest because the outcomes would be bull****. And the people with all the pieces would talk about the scrubs with no rooks like their wins meant they were good. Put that parallel to a real chess tournament where everyone has access to everything and we all know where the actual good players would be. In a real game.
Some of the pro GWF statements here are plain ,simple 100% ridicoulous.
That is an offensive two sword class that has 50% time of fighting has 90% DR....really?????And some think that this class does not dererve some balancing acts....or "nerfs" if you like to call them. (Pando excluded ,there is always an exception that verifies the rule ,we say in my country.pando is the exception.)
I don't care if the at wills feed the determination or the enc or the high seas or the cloudy skys or whatever.I care that this class is simple plain fact OP.And its ridicoulous OP makes people stay away from PVP.Which is part of the game.
Many "top" GwF PVPers are so low intelllect that do not get it that in the long run they will be left alone to play with their "elite" guildies.
We all saw that the day 1 tenacity patch how many new players tried pvp.Before that who bothered??
To see premades with 2-3 GWF on team that even you fight 3vs 1 you were helpless???
And now some come here to say to us that this is normal .And if you are good player you can beat a sentinel.
Well now is a challenge.Why don't you take a friend's acount gs13-14 toon and fight against a gw 11 sent.And if you win by your "superior" "intellect" and "tactics" and "action dogma" send me a letter.
I cannot bear any more nonsense.
pando said
"There are countless posts and guides about PvP"..... which are before the IV sent path so they are completely outdated ,obsolete and clueless.
general speaking I challenge all here the pro GWFs...find me a guide to defeat a sent IV one vs one with high gs.
And no don't tell me the usual shiiiiiit "one cw stalls while the tr sneaks while etc etc..."I am tired of reading nonsense from GWF apologists who fear their beloved toon that gave them so much satisfaction the last months by roflstomping countless opponents will get some balances and not being able anymore to feed their paracitic egos...
And how their GWF toon won so many opponents???with the super enhanced strat of "click ,click click, unstop,click click enemy is dead".
And what they were thinking??
"Great woaw..i am a such a good player..i am at 10% of the elite...I am so smart....****..the rest 90% are idiots ME only ME the great GWF knows this game.My strats are so enhanced!! click click click click!!! I am so **** smart!! click click click!!!
I am part of the elite!! click click click click!!!! die GF die!!! die CW die click click clcick!! die sneaky TR!! die die 11click click click!I am the elite!!! I asm no pug!! click clickc click!! I am master of NW!!! click clcick click!!
:P
Threatening rush is definitely the ability that creates imbalance with GWF. Playing as GWF without TR requires skill to land encounters. Getting kited is the tradeoff for such high defensive setup. Reducing damage from TR would not fix the problem.
Good range should be able to kite melee. Good melee should be able to stay on range. TR removes this part of the game and makes it difficult to balance.
GWF is so easy mode I cant even bring myself to play mine anymore.
I am all about challenge and competition but with My GWF Is just too boring.
I mean its fun and all at first and I almost even start to feel like im the king of pvp.
but then reality hits me and I realize.I AM PLAYING AN OP GOD MADE CLASS.so I log off and play something else.
Its fun to fantasise "Im really a good player on my GWF" but I can only lie to myself for so long before I have to admit the truth to myself.
GWF is so easy mode I cant even bring myself to play mine anymore.
I am all about challenge and competition but with My GWF Is just too boring.
I mean its fun and all at first and I almost even start to feel like im the king of pvp.
but then reality hits me and I realize.I AM PLAYING AN OP GOD MADE CLASS.so I log off and play something else.
Its fun to fantasise "Im really a good player on my GWF" but I can only lie to myself for so long before I have to admit the truth to myself.
Probably not on my GWF but no one would know any different.
Honestly I cant tell I just kill everything to easy.
It does make me feel like I am good though but im sure im not because on all my other classes I feel like I have to actually try.
Hypervoreian if you would have read the least bit of what I have posted here (apparently you did not) all I am saying is instead of nerfing left right and center, how about buffing the classes that need it, as for helpimblindinrl this is a MMO rpg man, with pvp, if you want pvp where everyone is equal, you picked the wrong genre, try COD maybe, an RPG is all about farming your gear, building your character to be good at what you want him to be good at, I cannot stress this enough, this is a RPG! reaching level 60 is just the beginning of your ordeal, the harder part comes next, you have to gear up... there would be absolutely no point in putting us through the lack luster end game pve content and spending hundreds of hours just to get that gear set, enchant, artifact you want/need, I am sure someone is gonna cry about the pay to win crowd, but you will get no sympathy from Cryptic, on this they think more along the lines of put up or shut up .
And I assume you think you are NOT part of these 90%?
Why do you keep playing this game if you consider 90% of the player base if they are so much inferior to your intellect?
Why don't you teach them? You seem to have the smarts!
Who said I was playing it? I largely come in to craft, talk to guild members, and leave now after this pathetic PvP patch. Learn yourself, I did.
Comments
True that. Gloaming Cut wasn't that powerful to begin with and got the buffs it deserved when Live Launch came. I just hope that if ever Threatening Rush gets balanced, it'd be done properly. I can understand what Embracemysword is saying. The GWF class, since Closed Beta, has also been receiving quite a few nerfs of their own. They were strong in CB, end of CB they got a couple of other nerfs, Open Beta came with a couple more nerfs, Live Launch came with some good buffs but they got slammed with some other nerfs pre or post mod 1 after that because of Swordmaster Sents being too godly with high gear.
It's only now that GWF's are getting their due share of the limelight, albeit it being too much from TR + Deep Gash being in T1 Destroyer which gives Sents (who are supposed to be tanks) access to high bursts of DPS.
I've been saying this since thier inclusion of sharing each other's skills.
The paragon path skills should not be literal carbon copies of the other. They should be the similar but with different functions accustomed to the class that uses them.
For instance,
The threatening rush animation length didnt need the animation extension, because GF's needed that for thier gap closers (because they have a more difficult time keeping up on thier opponents). Where GF's are conditioned to break gaps to thier opponents.
This would work good for it too if it worked like this for GWF's.
GF's Flourish should give give something other than a stun, but more like a dazing strike that grants a while after the hit was given. (since the attack is incredibly weak), or simply increase the damage calculation of the skill. (since all of the sword master skills for GF is calculating as if they are using a greatsword)
And Weapon Master's strike for GF should do something different than it does for GWF. Such as increasing your run speed with each strike by X for a max of X stacks. (going for a buff for the fighter instead of a debuff on the monsters)
Just simple adjustments between the two classes with the same paragon paths instead of getting literal exact copies of the other.
Someone who posted this has the nerve to claim others are intellectually disadvantaged, now I've seen it all.
U sure??
By a small population pvp cleric
Unstoppable is not as effective now and not as frequent. Tenacity did bring a nerf over that (too lazy to explain all the process)
I did for a long time and i tell you that swordmaster is the stronger path for a 1v1
TR as in threatening rush.. sry for the confusion
I have to disagree, Threatening Rush has a strategic component in the mark and is nice to have that on both soldier classes.
I agree with you: it was. With the pvp patch gwf did receive nerfs across the board and i dont think enough time passed to have an educated opinion about those changes, as if the were enough or not.
Maybe is still too powerful, tho from my experience doesnt seem so, unlike the Shocking Execution.Maybe only certain artifacts makes them too powerful and then those need to be addressed and not a skill, or just maybe some are just better players or have better connection and you just wont be able to beat them (i have been in that situation also).
And the GF, whom that power and path were originally intended for? Or don't we care if we make the slowest class even slower? It is hard enough trying to catch a decent HR/CW with Threatening & Lunging, now you would like to mess Threatening up?
Nerf anything on the Vanguard tree because of the GWF and you kick the GF square in the nuts. Vanguard is a GFs means of standing a chance in both PvE (how many Swordmaster GFs have you seen?) & PvP, it isn't an OP vanity-spec a la IV Sent.
A simpler fix then. Remove Threatening Rush as an IV provided at-will, move it to GF common at-will, and then put in something else.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I suggest "Execution Stealth Rush", that closes on enemy, immobilizes them with great fear, then decapitates them. All this while GWF is immune to damage and stealthed. Can be spammed.
My only concern is that it would make encounters obsolete, but other than that seems very appropriate
I was more thinking of the "Insidious Leg Trip". The GWF rushes in with lightning speed, and then kicks the shin of the target and makes it fall. Can be spammed. So when you square off with the GWF, he rushes in and trips you. You get up, then you fall down again. And again. And again. And again.
Ofcourse, this power is by no means OP. It's damage will be like 500 at max.. so the GWF needs to trip you 60 times in a row to kill your 30k HP toon. Yup, such a low damage power. Not OP at all.
(ps) Who's the frickin' idiot that said 0.6 seconds knock duration nerf + Tenacity is going to solve the AoE/ranged chain-proning no-brainer bullshi* easymode that every GWF so loves to use? I'm targetting him with my "Insidious Leg Trip" until he dies of falling.
If he starts ranting that this power is OP, we'll lower its damage by 25% and in compensation make it an AoE power that hits 5 people in the frontal 180d angle. Yeah, that's an adequate nerf.
*snort*
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
No cooldown there, its always had charges.
It's pretty messed up that this is even in the game. It is seriously the easiest easy mode build I have ever seen in any game.
Funny how many people like the easy mode.
I do agree that the classes are not all equal and something should be done, but please stop demanding nerfs and learn how to play your class and the game !
Cryptic please add pvp tutorials (notice the plural) that must be accomplished before even being able to Q for pvp, it wont solve all the problems but it would be a good start .
First of all - English be like : " why you no learn me ?! " . Second.. you did tests ? Nice try. Now move along please.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Pretty much.
Why do you keep playing this game if you consider 90% of the player base if they are so much inferior to your intellect?
Why don't you teach them? You seem to have the smarts!
There are countless posts and guides about PvP. For example, i've been posting since ages to explain people how to fight GWFs. Yet, i often find myself cursing my team mates cause when i'm fighting a sentinel they suddenly butt in and start spamming at-wills making him stay in unstoppable all the time. Then i come here on the forums and read some smart guy who just made a post or a nerf request about "unstoppable is so OP GWF are INVULNERABLE all the time what is that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> i can't kill them they're Always big and RED!!!!111!!!one!!!"
Also, even though after this patch, GWFs have bee brought back to normal and can't tank 3-4-5 enemies alone anymore, today a smart guy in my team, when we were losing by few points, asked in Group chat "how are we losing??? We have 2 GWFs!!!". In the meanwhile, a enemy TR was playing around and engaging the other 3 players of our team at our base. And winning.
We won eventually, but i kept thinking that if people is still there talking about "GWFs" as if there is only the sentinel tank build, and thinking that if you have more "GWFs (generic)" in your team, you MUST win, then we have a LOOOOOOONG way to go before they actually understand how PvP works.
A large majority of players don't know how to build for PvP, how to gear for PvP, how to fight in PvP, and how other classes work. And often the don't even know how their own class work.
That said I am not a pretentious *** like you tried portraying me, and I do not believe myself superior to anyone, as for the teaching part believe me I have done my fair share of hand holding, but should this really be up to us to do? why should I care about some random pug?
The truth is, if some one gets his butt kicked repeatedly by any specific class, they come here to cry a river, demanding nerfs, I know for a fact that anyone who knows how to play his class can kill any of the other classes even the ones considered to be OP (with an exception for DC and to a lesser degree the GF), I am talking about the people who have built/rerolled a character specifically for pvp, the ones who have really mastered their class, not the ones who think they have .
The reason those whiners get beat are from lack of skill or lack of gear, seriously how can a fresh level 60 with blue gear hope to beat the upper tier pvper's who (for the most part) have epic gear, rank 10s, legendary artifacts, perfect enchants, the works, well the answer is simple, they cannot, nor should they expect to, I am talking about players who have reached end game, the you cant get any better level, going up against fresh toons which take a grand total of 3 days to reach level cap from scratch, why should they expect to beat a person that has put months in his or her toon? this is where the problem is at, well that and people who cant build a character properly, are using pve spec'ed toons in pvp, are using the wrong set of powers/passives/dailies, those for who 7 buttons on a keyboard is just way too complicated, or like those I have touched upon already who still haven't figured out how pvp works or how their own class works, take your pick .
Like it has been suggested many times simple fix, give us a premade Q, and a pug Q, give everyone mandatory pvp tutorials that must be achieved before getting access to pvp (so level 10) heck throw in another one at level 60 for good measure .
Edit : Didn't see the above post by pando this this and this especially for that last part .
Given that the vast vast majority of the content is pve and to build a character that is good for pvp you need different feats, gear, ability scores and stats and the extent to which simply better gear changes outcomes that shouldn't be any kind of surprise.
And to the guy above me you shouldn't have any advantage in a game that you didn't earn that game. That's how it is in real pvp games for a reason. Imagine a chess tournament where you have bring your own pieces but buying each individual piece costs a hundred dollars a pop. Some people will have more pieces than others giving them an unfair advantage and quickly people would lose interest because the outcomes would be bull****. And the people with all the pieces would talk about the scrubs with no rooks like their wins meant they were good. Put that parallel to a real chess tournament where everyone has access to everything and we all know where the actual good players would be. In a real game.
That is an offensive two sword class that has 50% time of fighting has 90% DR....really?????And some think that this class does not dererve some balancing acts....or "nerfs" if you like to call them. (Pando excluded ,there is always an exception that verifies the rule ,we say in my country.pando is the exception.)
I don't care if the at wills feed the determination or the enc or the high seas or the cloudy skys or whatever.I care that this class is simple plain fact OP.And its ridicoulous OP makes people stay away from PVP.Which is part of the game.
Many "top" GwF PVPers are so low intelllect that do not get it that in the long run they will be left alone to play with their "elite" guildies.
We all saw that the day 1 tenacity patch how many new players tried pvp.Before that who bothered??
To see premades with 2-3 GWF on team that even you fight 3vs 1 you were helpless???
And now some come here to say to us that this is normal .And if you are good player you can beat a sentinel.
Well now is a challenge.Why don't you take a friend's acount gs13-14 toon and fight against a gw 11 sent.And if you win by your "superior" "intellect" and "tactics" and "action dogma" send me a letter.
I cannot bear any more nonsense.
pando said
"There are countless posts and guides about PvP"..... which are before the IV sent path so they are completely outdated ,obsolete and clueless.
general speaking I challenge all here the pro GWFs...find me a guide to defeat a sent IV one vs one with high gs.
And no don't tell me the usual shiiiiiit "one cw stalls while the tr sneaks while etc etc..."I am tired of reading nonsense from GWF apologists who fear their beloved toon that gave them so much satisfaction the last months by roflstomping countless opponents will get some balances and not being able anymore to feed their paracitic egos...
And how their GWF toon won so many opponents???with the super enhanced strat of "click ,click click, unstop,click click enemy is dead".
And what they were thinking??
"Great woaw..i am a such a good player..i am at 10% of the elite...I am so smart....****..the rest 90% are idiots ME only ME the great GWF knows this game.My strats are so enhanced!! click click click click!!! I am so **** smart!! click click click!!!
I am part of the elite!! click click click click!!!! die GF die!!! die CW die click click clcick!! die sneaky TR!! die die 11click click click!I am the elite!!! I asm no pug!! click clickc click!! I am master of NW!!! click clcick click!!
:P
What if they are both good
Then it's like dividing by zero, the world explodes.
I am all about challenge and competition but with My GWF Is just too boring.
I mean its fun and all at first and I almost even start to feel like im the king of pvp.
but then reality hits me and I realize.I AM PLAYING AN OP GOD MADE CLASS.so I log off and play something else.
Its fun to fantasise "Im really a good player on my GWF" but I can only lie to myself for so long before I have to admit the truth to myself.
So you are not a good player?
Honestly I cant tell I just kill everything to easy.
It does make me feel like I am good though but im sure im not because on all my other classes I feel like I have to actually try.
Who said I was playing it? I largely come in to craft, talk to guild members, and leave now after this pathetic PvP patch. Learn yourself, I did.