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vasilles
Member Posts: 33 Arc User
I've been playing since July GWF class. But really bored after the Vanguard patch, because I was killing everyone. I liked initially, but a game that is not even give a chance to other players, too boring.
1-I did not use any enchantment. Result number of the most kills.
2-I've used the blue equipment + no enchantment. Result number of the most kills.
Anyway, where I was due to this imbalance, we did tests to find out.
The easiest solution make THREATENING RUSH (At-Will) 3 sec cooldown.
1-I did not use any enchantment. Result number of the most kills.
2-I've used the blue equipment + no enchantment. Result number of the most kills.
Anyway, where I was due to this imbalance, we did tests to find out.
The easiest solution make THREATENING RUSH (At-Will) 3 sec cooldown.
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Post edited by vasilles on
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Comments
The whole idea of a melee class is that they have to work to get within range of another class to kill them. In exchange of having to do that, melee classes are tankier than ranged classes like CWs and HRs. By being able to spam threatening rush, it kind of diminishes that struggle. Melee already has the advantage that the maps are about node domination, meaning that unless ranged classes want to bleed points, they will often have to stand on/around the node, meaning they will often be within close melee range anyway. Giving a melee class the ability to spam an at-will that teleports them to a target seems a bit inappropriate.
That being said, I think GWFs are perfectly fine after this patch, and there are other classes that would be more important to adjust.
But while my previous experiences have me agreeing with the problem I do not agree with your solution.
Curious as to why you say that since of all the nerf threads I have seen this seems to have the most reasonable suggestion. Perhaps it could be implemented on the test shard to see if it make a large difference?
It was a mistake to ever give GWF access to this skill. I honestly have no idea how to balance it.
It's insane that the primary class ability of GF is more useful for GWF and that GF skills are so much more deadly when used by GWF.
GWF also has punishing charge that does a better job as a gap closer, so is not like TR is the only skill for that and if it wasnt for the marks i would go Swordmaster in a blink.
There is also that, due tenacity, determination builds harder now and with the determination drain upon death it takes away from the resilience of a gwf. But then again what;s the purpose of a tank if u can ignore it without any consequence?!
The bigger question is whether it can even be balanced separately from the GF spell and if not then there's an even bigger problem.
On a GF it is a utility power. It doesn't do any damage really and is mainly for movement and marking. It should be the same concept on a GWF but as Ranncore said due to the damage it is often spammed as an actual attack.
Honestly if it can be scaled separately it should just have its damage reduced so it remains a utility power rather than an all in one option.
There is a reason why nobody complained about this before. The movement and even the marking is not the problem. It's the damage combined with utility specifically on the GWF which prompted these complaints.
And do note I am a player. I have zero control of what makes it to the test server.
So lets just keep nerfing down the GWF's until we are a char standing there holding his junk in his hand. We had too go threw the first 5 months of the game as the weekest class in PvP, we get some love and now they want to send us back...
Good range should be able to kite melee. Good melee should be able to stay on range. TR removes this part of the game and makes it difficult to balance.
I totally agree!
/10 char
This makes no sense... what happens when a good range and a good melee meet?
only good thing that comes from tr is the mark and is good that it can be refreshed fast. TR had the damage reduced by tenacity and vorpal even more... Only thing that it was said and was not ok is that it can put 2 stacks of SotS (if that havent been addressed yet). Also frontline surge had the dmg decreased even further..
Only thing that was left to a IV is the ability to put debuffs/CC on targets and that is only with the help of TR. If you are naked rly is not a balance issue, play some more get your stats right cause now gwf had the dmg cut in half.
GWFS are not currently stomping all over any specific class.
If you take TR and put it on a 3sec cd... no gwf will ever kill a wiz or hunter again.
Ever.
I already kill most of the gwfs i run across on my wiz. and if youre having problems, check your strategy.
Been there as vasilles killed some of the best geared (skilled as well) people while rolling with no enchants GWF. I am not so sure after this patch, many GWFs seem to have yet adapted, but I've played against GWFs that are just as OP as they were before patch, not many though.
Halfling Tenacity geared GWF will resist 90% of your repels.
Also some GWFs basically take very, very little damage. I'd say that HV+CoI+RoE/Mastery is one of the most debuffing setups in the game. Yet I've met 2-3 GWFs that had so much HP, and so much DR, that my remaining nukes (Icy Rays, Chill Strike) were not nearly enough. Repel instead of CS? just a small stun. Shard? The only spell that can deal some spiky, yet not sufficient damage. Crits are 6-10K or so, and the GWF won't just stay and look at you as you try to cast it.
The only good thing for now is that there are very few GWFs that are geared&specced properly, and the others just drop way faster when focused.
Oh yeah.
Let's not forget the emblem. Basically all geared GWFs will sport an emblem as well...
No one wants that, but people do want things to be fair. The GWF has always been a top tier pick for pvp. The 1st 5 months they werent played often because of their lack of desire in pve! but in pvp they have always been god tier tanks, able to apply alot of agression to a node and stick around permanently to score points with thier unstoppable, sprint and jump abilities. It alows the player the option of always running before dying, to get a potion heal up and come back. Only rogues get this thru the mercy of stealth, which is closebut not as strong as gwf.
The biggest issue that should be addressed with all this pvp hubbub..is the the gf and the gwf are almost the same character, but the gear and ability score scaling on the gwf have always been better. The gf is limited in play choices and always over shadowed by other classes.
Its a matter of wearing them down. Its hard, it requires perfect timing, and some luck with repels. but its doable.
and i dont use shard at this time.
GFS however have the ability to be annoying and live for a bit as well, they do need something, but dont swing that bat too far, because they used to be OP on a level of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The tenacity system certainly seems to have helped out the balance. Not sure it is quite balanced yet, but well-played CWs now seem to have a reasonable chance.
When good ranged and good melee meet, it becomes a long and hectic fight where the good ranged first deals repeated accumulated damage to good melee from distance, the good melee closes in and lands a few big hits, the good ranged gains distance again and starts landing more damage, and on and on and on where both sides' HP starts dropping down at a comparable rate... and then one side wins.
Ofcourse, you don't see this in NW, because ranged never beats the GWF. Things go similarly for the first 5 seconds, and then bam. Unstoppable. Game over.
Yeah? Then try fighting without it and see just how much of an easy-mode crutch a gap-closing at-will is.
You know why 90%+ of the TR population uses the stealthed-ranged build? Because staying in combat range with melee at-wills is helluva difficult thing to accomplish in NW... and the only way most TRs really use melee attacks is when they just do the hit-and-run (as with LB) or land a stealthed DF against a stationary person.
Threatening Rush is an at-will hat should have remained exclusive to GFs only, since their lack of damage and mobility. The IV path should never have been given to GWFs in the first place.
Remember, this patch made the GWF bearable by bringing them down from 'unkillable' to 'manageable' levels. That don't mean the number of problems with GWFs don't exist anymore.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
it's easier when we use deft strike as it allows us to pretty much stay on any ranged class because many people don't pack a lot of skills to widen the gaps. it's mostly just 3 dodges and the occasional repel from wizards, 2 dodges from clerics (not that they have time to dodge a lot since they tend to multi-task), and invisibility + marauder's escape + roots from hunters.
only ranged class that can actually escape from me are hunters since it takes me a while to figure out where they hid during their stealth.
that forever remains to be the most annoying thing about trying to kite gwf's. haven't ran into a gwf i can't kill yet, but that single at-will was one of the main reasons that you couldn't simply stay out of their range for even 1 second >.>
The same principle could also be applied to Threatening Rush. Give it a slow windup, make it hit a harder (a better alternative since what's making this At-Will OP for GWF's is its spam-ability), and limit its range a little. This way, targets may be able to move out of Threatening Rush's area if they are fast enough or if they can dodge away before it lands. It could also be possible to add a mechanic similar to what we see from Lunging Strike just recently, where it deals damage to enemies behind the primary target. Just so that the loss of being able to spam this At-Will to close gaps infinitely is properly made up for.
You know the OP is a GWF and a good one too?
If GC was like that, people would light the torches and bring out the pitchfork and the noose, and start hunting our kind to oblivion, tod.
Sounds interesting, and reasonable.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If this theory is a mark of your intellect then.. oh nvm.
That's like, Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling saying that they are worried about the increasing intensity of public outcries and accusals of financial corruption, and they sincerely object to any government investigation on Enron, which is a normal, financially healthy company maintained by upstanding accounting methods.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
True that. Gloaming Cut wasn't that powerful to begin with and got the buffs it deserved when Live Launch came. I just hope that if ever Threatening Rush gets balanced, it'd be done properly. I can understand what Embracemysword is saying. The GWF class, since Closed Beta, has also been receiving quite a few nerfs of their own. They were strong in CB, end of CB they got a couple of other nerfs, Open Beta came with a couple more nerfs, Live Launch came with some good buffs but they got slammed with some other nerfs pre or post mod 1 after that because of Swordmaster Sents being too godly with high gear.
It's only now that GWF's are getting their due share of the limelight, albeit it being too much from TR + Deep Gash being in T1 Destroyer which gives Sents (who are supposed to be tanks) access to high bursts of DPS.