In the 2 games I played I got almost 10 kills from Impact Shot alone.
I just avoided spamming it. On single shots, it seemed fine
I had a GWF charge me and I spammed it and it knocked the GWF back and interrupted his attack which allowed me to then dodge roll at him,
whip a 180, throw ShadowStrike, enter Stealth and get back to doing what I do.
I guess I have to play more, but I outscored 18 other players in 2 games today. To me, it seemed the changes allowed me to be more survivable. Even though I was doing less damage, it seemed that the healing change didn't allow people that I whittled down to 25% or less HPs all of a sudden healed back to 80-100% of their Hps in 2 seconds like previously.
Time will tell. I am more concerned about the que times. When I am on my lunch break at work, time is of the essence. I can't waste the 1 hour I have waiting in que.
Seems like this is a known issue and they are seriously working hard to get this resolved.
I had very similar overall impressions from my short experience in PvP today as well.
On my GF I had a very hard time chaining CC. Terrifying Menace is pretty useless in PvP now because of its activation time. I can also add that the one Cleric I encountered was amazing. Those people we whittled down to 25%? He had plenty of time to skirt from one base to another bringing them all back up to full and could survive long enough to receive assistance when we started targeting him. Ended up with the high score of the match from being on every cap when it was taken and having so many assists.
Mostly I'm excited to see the matchmaking system in action. One of my matches was 1000 to zero. Really hoping that we won't be seeing a lot of matches like that anymore as soon as people develop their ELO scores.
There wasn't a single leaver or AFKer in any of the matches I played. Everyone fought to the end. That alone is worth a 20 minute queue time.
yes dersidius, but in this game skill pve = skill pvp.
The rogues permacheat who kill solo first boss on CN are those who walk it in pvp and Gauntlgrym against several players, do not forget.
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plomienioMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
I don't understand why the new PVP sets don't have the Crit/Arp/HP bonuses that BF Skulker's have. To me that was one of the most-disappointing revelations when I was looking through the available options. With the other changes from the update and these set changes, it's really hard for dedicated TRs to think positive. I just hope that Cryptic is listening.
Exactly. that's why i wrote about mixing sets but still there are two sets power/crit and none crit/arm_pen.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Exactly. that's why i wrote about mixing sets but still there are two sets power/crit and none crit/arm_pen.
Gear will always have drawbacks. You always have to give up one stat to make room for another. Lots of people have lots of different builds - there will never (and should never) be one set that is so good it's perfect for everyone.
There's no GF set with HP and regen on it. In fact the only regen set has NO power on it.
Stat allocation is an integral part of character building. You will never be offered the perfect, catch all set.
yes dersidius, but in this game skill pve = skill pvp.
The rogues permacheat who kill solo first boss on CN are those who walk in pvp an Gauntlgrym against several players, do not forget.
First off sir, you need to get your facts straight
Perm stealth isn't a cheat it's obtained through a very specific build, and even then you can die from boss AoE in PVE, nor is it even a legitimately viable PvP build atthe current time,and the current build people refer to incorrectly as "Permstealth" Is actually a hybrid that runs SS and ITC, coming out of stealth only to ITC ad stealth up again
Second
Master infiltrator
Whisper Knife
IT is a rogues Job to Stealth past several people and cap a point, it's in our names
Thirdly, As stated before our first intended roll was to have the highest single target DPS, but now we probably have the worst above DC
Finally, just because a small % of the TR population uses the REAL PERMANENT stealth build dosen't mean we have to go ahead and nerf the stats into oblivion and make our last viable Burst damage encounter do less damage then our utility encounters. All the while we weren't the true issue, neither was the survivability of your typical player
the only true issue we had about pvp last patch was GWF's damage with a basically god mode status
TR got slapped and I don't even think it was intended...
First off sir, you need to get your facts straight
Perm stealth isn't a cheat it's obtained through a very specific build, and even then you can die from boss AoE in PVE, nor is it even a legitimately viable PvP build atthe current time,and the current build people refer to incorrectly as "Permstealth" Is actually a hybrid that runs SS and ITC, coming out of stealth only to ITC ad stealth up again
Second
Master infiltrator
Whisper Knife
IT is a rogues Job to Stealth past several people and cap a point, it's in our names
Thirdly, As stated before our first intended roll was to have the highest single target DPS, but now we probably have the worst above DC
Finally, just because a small % of the TR population uses the REAL PERMANENT stealth build dosen't mean we have to go ahead and nerf the stats into oblivion and make our last viable Burst damage encounter do less damage then our utility encounters. All the while we weren't the true issue, neither was the survivability of your typical player
the only true issue we had about pvp last patch was GWF's damage with a basically god mode status
TR got slapped and I don't even think it was intended...
R.I.P
Now you TR can experience the pain all the GF players have felt. No worry, the justice would come for the mighty GWFs one day, just not today, not this patch :P
First off sir, you need to get your facts straight
Perm stealth isn't a cheat it's obtained through a very specific build, and even then you can die from boss AoE in PVE, nor is it even a legitimately viable PvP build atthe current time,and the current build people refer to incorrectly as "Permstealth" Is actually a hybrid that runs SS and ITC, coming out of stealth only to ITC ad stealth up again
Second
Master infiltrator
Whisper Knife
IT is a rogues Job to Stealth past several people and cap a point, it's in our names
Thirdly, As stated before our first intended roll was to have the highest single target DPS, but now we probably have the worst above DC
Finally, just because a small % of the TR population uses the REAL PERMANENT stealth build dosen't mean we have to go ahead and nerf the stats into oblivion and make our last viable Burst damage encounter do less damage then our utility encounters. All the while we weren't the true issue, neither was the survivability of your typical player
the only true issue we had about pvp last patch was GWF's damage with a basically god mode status
TR got slapped and I don't even think it was intended...
Jesus Christ, dersi, enough is enough, and that goes as well for every single TR boarding the whiney QQ train here.
...
You want to talk about Impact Shot?
Previously an encounter that has 3 set charges with 0 delay in between shots, a single shot capable of landing anywhere between 6k~8k damage on crits, amounting up to 4 consecutive shots starting from stealth and easily capable of racking over 20k damage in such a short time frame. If you get hit with unlucky timing, with that positioning jerking caused by the repel you can't even enter dodge.
It doesn't matter if you catch a TR who leaves himself wide-open for your attack combo. Even if you successfully knock him down to half-HP, there comes the IS-IS-IS spam and BAM!, now he has higher HP.
Easily higher damage in total when compared to LB, yet many more times easier to land since its just point-and-click ranged power. You don't even need the risk of going in close to melee range. That's how stupidly no-brainer easy mode this power was.
Its a frickin' hypocrisy coming from TRs using IS spamming, when they complain about GWFs or GFs chain-proning combos, because in any other squishy's shoes (HRs or CWs) its just as bullshi* chain proning when the IS spamming starts. Get puckered all over from knives from stealth, and at the last moment the TR pops out with an IS, *BooM!*, 8k gone and stunned, *BooM!* another guranteed 7k strike to your HP right there, and that alone's 15k HP gone in 2 seconds, the worst part being 2 more IS shots are coming sometime within the next 5 seconds.
Sure, the people who use this loves it. Anyone can see why. But try actually looking at it frome the whole perspective that includes all classes, and there's no way Impact Shot was going to remain as it was. I've long ago warned about this; that IS is too powerful, something's going to be done about it, and people should start learn to throw the easy-mode crutches away and find alternative options. A classic "I told you so" moment for me right here.
The developers could have easily just chopped off 30~40% damage from the top as a whole, but no. They actually gave us an option and a choice. Don't spam IS and use it in steady intervals, or spam it for extra damage/interrupt duration at the price of diminishing damage level.
Assuming someone has almost full Tenacity set, that's 20% flat DR. Your 8k IS will be hitting for 6.4k through the 20% Ten.filter, your next spam will hit for 4.2k, and your final shot for 2.1k. If you start from stealth, that's a 2-charge level free IS which would be another 4.2k. Four consecutive crits will still land you around 17k damage in total. Sure, it's not the theoretical 32k damage you could have expected before, but don't you think that was simply OP?
As a TR I've stopped using IS a long time ago because it was simply lame as hell, easy-mode crutch power that you could faceroll the keyboard with and still land you a win in many cases -- provided you start spamming it at the right timing. From where I stand, frankly you guys look like a bunch of addicts preaching how getting rid of cocaine from your system is so lame and unfair.
Geez, enough with the melodrama. Learn to adapt. Its not as if the world is ending or something. Use IS in set intervals, if that's not enough spiking think of some other way to increase the damage output by using some other skill or something. Isn't that thinking, researching, experimenting to find new ways and methods the whole point of PvP??
Sheeeeesh.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Jesus Christ, dersi, enough is enough, and that goes as well for every single TR boarding the whiney QQ train here.
...
You want to talk about Impact Shot?
Previously an encounter that has 3 set charges with 0 delay in between shots, a single shot capable of landing anywhere between 6k~8k damage on crits, amounting up to 4 consecutive shots starting from stealth and easily capable of racking over 20k damage in such a short time frame. If you get hit with unlucky timing, with that positioning jerking caused by the repel you can't even enter dodge.
It doesn't matter if you catch a TR who leaves himself wide-open for your attack combo. Even if you successfully knock him down to half-HP, there comes the IS-IS-IS spam and BAM!, now he has higher HP.
Easily higher damage in total when compared to LB, yet many more times easier to land since its just point-and-click ranged power. You don't even need the risk of going in close to melee range. That's how stupidly no-brainer easy mode this power was.
Its a frickin' hypocrisy coming from TRs using IS spamming, when they complain about GWFs or GFs chain-proning combos, because in any other squishy's shoes (HRs or CWs) its just as bullshi* chain proning when the IS spamming starts. Get puckered all over from knives from stealth, and at the last moment the TR pops out with an IS, *BooM!*, 8k gone and stunned, *BooM!* another guranteed 7k strike to your HP right there, and that alone's 15k HP gone in 2 seconds, the worst part being 2 more IS shots are coming sometime within the next 5 seconds.
Sure, the people who use this loves it. Anyone can see why. But try actually looking at it frome the whole perspective that includes all classes, and there's no way Impact Shot was going to remain as it was. I've long ago warned about this; that IS is too powerful, something's going to be done about it, and people should start learn to throw the easy-mode crutches away and find alternative options. A classic "I told you so" moment for me right here.
The developers could have easily just chopped off 30~40% damage from the top as a whole, but no. They actually gave us an option and a choice. Don't spam IS and use it in steady intervals, or spam it for extra damage/interrupt duration at the price of diminishing damage level.
Assuming someone has almost full Tenacity set, that's 20% flat DR. Your 8k IS will be hitting for 6.4k through the 20% Ten.filter, your next spam will hit for 4.2k, and your final shot for 2.1k. If you start from stealth, that's a 2-charge level free IS which would be another 4.2k. Four consecutive crits will still land you around 17k damage in total. Sure, it's not the theoretical 32k damage you could have expected before, but don't you think that was simply OP?
As a TR I've stopped using IS a long time ago because it was simply lame as hell, easy-mode crutch power that you could faceroll the keyboard with and still land you a win in many cases -- provided you start spamming it at the right timing. From where I stand, frankly you guys look like a bunch of addicts preaching how getting rid of cocaine from your system is so lame and unfair.
Geez, enough with the melodrama. Learn to adapt. Its not as if the world is ending or something. Use IS in set intervals, if that's not enough spiking think of some other way to increase the damage output by using some other skill or something. Isn't that thinking, researching, experimenting to find new ways and methods the whole point of PvP??
Sheeeeesh.
Firstly, The TR's your talking about with that type of damage typically have very low HP and therefore die very fast
and how do those #'s even matter when Impact shot crits for as low as 623 now
your crying that It deserved a nerf eh? Lets see how much you Q.Q when everyone finds out how OP the new skill-less monster of PoB is.
and if the stun affected you that much, you weren't built right for pvp
Also this patch isnt about Impact shot, Impact shot is a minor issue in the grand scheme of this thread. This thread is about all the new found issues with TR from things such as IS, to things such as the terrible new stat allocation
Furthermore, I have already done research and have a new build planned. But just because I know how to work with bullcrap dosent mean the majority of the TR's do. Because quite frankly, unless your using a build similar to what I have plan, your TR will be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and your TR will fall behind. To make matters worse, the build I have planned is worse then things that were once achievable due to proper gear
Next time please formulate your thread response to account for end level PvP with fair gear in and skill level, because frankly, I haven't been combo'd to death by 8k+ Impact shots once.
Don't know if it's gimped, but on my first match one of these "hybrid perma" builds could stall 2-3 of my team mates (HRs and other TRs) for like 5 minutes straight, and when i went for him he could fight pretty well. Shocking execution hits for 16-19k even on a sentinel GWF. Don't know if it's nerfed with this patch, but was pretty powerful. Overall, well used TRs have Always been pretty deadly to me. May be cause i'm not a full tank but a hybrid.
In PvP, i see them still strong, moreover now that we have healing depression and these "hybrid builds" pretty much can avoid damage a lot. They need some buff in PvE though. And a change in dungeon design to make their single target DPS shine.
the only true issue we had about pvp last patch was GWF's damage with a basically god mode status
Talking about getting facts straight...
GWF have many builds. You're talking about Iron Vanguard sentinel regeneration tanks (just a note, since it seems important to you to note how builds must be specified). And, while it is OP (much less now with new changes, can be taken down much faster 2v1), it is not god mode. Good players can easily take them down 2v1. Stated several times by top PvPers too.
There are issues and OPness. Still something left to fix. But right now GWFs, with healing depression, go down pretty easily 2v1. Which is good. But no god mode, if you know how to face them.
Talking about getting facts straight...
GWF have many builds. You're talking about Iron Vanguard sentinel regeneration tanks (just a note, since it seems important to you to note how builds must be specified). And, while it is OP (much less now with new changes, can be taken down much faster 2v1), it is not god mode. Good players can easily take them down 2v1. Stated several times by top PvPers too.
There are issues and OPness. Still something left to fix. But right now GWFs, with healing depression, go down pretty easily 2v1. Which is good. But no god mode, if you know how to face them.
I was proving a point
My TR was known for taking down Senti Gwf's 1v1, but that still dosen't mean I had the advantage, nor that they didnt have some pretty OP qualities to them
It was basically Hit them over and over again for about 3 minutes without getting caught in more then 2 rotations by them
Now they really aren't an issue, I'm more concerned now about CW's
A CW in my guild can currently 1 rotation any class atm, and He has 40k HP with 2.4k crit and 2.5k armor penetration
not saying they need a nerf but its pretty scary
and what class was CW's natrual predator....? TR!
And what class got nerfed into oblivion again...? TR!
And what class became super OP the last time they Nerfed TR!? GWF!
TR has been the balance class, keeping other classes inline since open beta
but at some point there won't be anything left to nerf
As a TR who didn't used to consider himself a perma stealth rogue, I'm finding that the alternatives to perma stealth are shrinking with every patch. It used to be that you could stack lots of damage and have all your defense based on killing people before they could hit you. Now, what choice do we have, we have 1 encounter that actually does decent quick damage, and everything else is either low damage over time (Wicked Reminder, Path of Blades), or buff/defense style encounters.
What are rogues supposed to do? We're extremely squishy, we have very few control effects, good consistent damage, but very little burst damage. If I were a TR going for a damage build previously, I'd have had Lashing Blade, Impact Shot, and something else. To deal with this change, I can just swap out Impact shot for Shadow Strike or Impossible to Catch, and get a few more at wills in to make up the damage.
How powerful rogues are hasn't changed with this nerf. Lots of perma stealth builds didn't use Impact Shot before. What's changed is that the options when maximizing a TR are much much narrower.
Firstly, The TR's your talking about with that type of damage typically have very low HP and therefore die very fast
Then you've self-gimped your damage by trying to make a tank out of a melee-DPS. Afterall, that's what every MI build TR has been trying to follow blindly without ever considering its consequences. Going perma or semi-perma was a conscious choice of yours, was it not? Relatively low damage, huge HP pool, invest everything into stealth and recharge... and what, you frickin' expect to be able to do hefty spike damage to kill stuff on top of that?
Sure, that was possible before the changes. But it's no more. You going to keep crying over spilt milk?
...and how do those #'s even matter when Impact shot crits for as low as 623 now
* Assuming your last shot landed a 621, with that damage your initial shot would be 1863.
* De-apply the Tenacity DamRes at 20% and your original damage of IS is 2328.
* De-apply the Tenacity CritRes at 20% and your original damage of IS is 2910
Since you're holding back on exact parameters and conditions of that how that hit transpired, there could be any number of reasons as to how you can score a 3k crit hit with IS... including "your stats/spec sucked even before the patch" and/or "you simply misidentifed a deflected hit and saw things wrong".
...your crying that It deserved a nerf eh? Lets see how much you Q.Q when everyone finds out how OP the new skill-less monster of PoB is.
I've already been doing fine without ITC, without +30k HP, without IS, without DF, without high INT/recharge long before the patch... so tell me how some people using PoB is going to make me "Q.Q.". The only people I see QQing in this thread are the TRs that seems to imply they need that one-button mashing, quadruple 8k hits to kill anything, or else the world is going to come to an end.
...and if the stun affected you that much, you weren't built right for pvp
Wo-ho! Coming from people who are making 8-page pile of QQ posts, and I'm the one 'not built for PvP'? Real PvPers simply adapt, bro. True story. Only the wannabes cry over every single bit of change that might force them to learn new things.
Also this patch isnt about Impact shot, Impact shot is a minor issue in the grand scheme of this thread. This thread is about all the new found issues with TR from things such as IS, to things such as the terrible new stat allocation.
The story of the Impact Shot was simply to demonstrate just how skewed and warped views some TRs have on the reality of balance. If they can be so much biased about IS and what it should do, no reason to believe that their views on stats or PvP may not be equally thrown-off the center.
Furthermore, I have already done research and have a new build planned. But just because I know how to work with bullcrap dosent mean the majority of the TR's do. Because quite frankly, unless your using a build similar to what I have plan, your TR will be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and your TR will fall behind. To make matters worse, the build I have planned is worse then things that were once achievable due to proper gear
Next time please formulate your thread response to account for end level PvP with fair gear in and skill level, because frankly, I haven't been combo'd to death by 8k+ Impact shots once.
Is it me, or is someone feeling so very defensive? Suddenly, this is about me? I am destined to suck and "fall behind"... ROFL.
Tough words, coming from a QQer.
Tell you what. Keep the soap opera going. Maybe they'll take pity on you and bring IS back to all its one-button mashing glory. I'll make sure to think about all you drama queens and doomsayers as I enjoy myself thoroughly in many PvP matches to come. So some versions my class is strong, sometimes not. Big deal.
Evolve, my friend, evolve.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
GWFs and HRs can hunt CWs just as good as TRs used to, maybe even better. To have those stats for CW you probably have to wear the Thaumaturge variant for HP, and HP jewelry as well.
Also many CW spells are broken and don't profit from ArP, and 2.5K ArP is nothing to write home about, R10 CWs from your guild had 2400-2700 ArP before the update already.
I have no reasons to not believe you when you say 1 rotation (with daily?) is enough, yet I would still want to see it with my own eyes, I assume I will soon do.
I'm curious however, is this 1 rotation CW kill include geared GWFs at 40K+ HP?
yogokouMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Kweassa, I will never get over how you are trying to school players that have many times your experience and access to resources (to test stuff). Glass cannon dps rogues were non-competitive, doing only a small % of semi-perma rogues damage because of their reduced lifespan; they could not 1v1 other classes. And if you think semi-permas had low/gimped damage and could not kill enemies, you are twice wrong. But that is what you deserve for arguing about subjects you have no first-hand experience in. Feel free to continue to underestimate the TR playerbase while ignoring their advice, and derail threads to argue about your perception of how in-game mechanics should work.
On topic, the new sets are pretty bad and give no direction to TRs. I will wait to see how other classes develop and build in response. My rogues will be taken off the selves only for minimum daily farming at best. With the rumors of stealth rework and the last round of nerfs, it is simply not worth investing in playtesting builds at the moment.
My TR was known for taking down Senti Gwf's 1v1, but that still dosen't mean I had the advantage, nor that they didnt have some pretty OP qualities to them
It was basically Hit them over and over again for about 3 minutes without getting caught in more then 2 rotations by them
Now they really aren't an issue, I'm more concerned now about CW's
A CW in my guild can currently 1 rotation any class atm, and He has 40k HP with 2.4k crit and 2.5k armor penetration
not saying they need a nerf but its pretty scary
and what class was CW's natrual predator....? TR!
And what class got nerfed into oblivion again...? TR!
And what class became super OP the last time they Nerfed TR!? GWF!
TR has been the balance class, keeping other classes inline since open beta
but at some point there won't be anything left to nerf
Look: on your first lines, you basically say "i was able to kite and DPS down sentinel GWFs, but it was cause i was good while they are OP". That's something i read often. I take down a sentinel GWF tank (or, more often, a generic GWF, since people believe they are all OP), i am a pro. They take me down/ can counter me, well, it's obviously cause they are OP.
Now, while IV sentinel tanks are OP compared to some other classes (my opinion), TRs are NOT one of these poor classes that need a buff. That hybrid TR build is a very good way to play a TR and requires skill. But it is strong also cause TRs have all the weapons they need: they have ITC, they have dodge roll immunity, they have stealth, and can combine all this stuff and even more, to be a ghost that comes out of the shadows, hits you, face you briefly, and fades into the shadows again.
A GWF does not have a "magic wand" to counter this, you know. GWFs have the tankiness and unstoppable to take the beating while trying to catch the TR. Threat rush, if the TR is good, is not that useful against this build, cause these TRs usually fade into stealth as soon as they get our of ITC, and TR animation can't keep up with the move (dodge roll away into stealth, dodge roll again to evade, hide). The best bet for a GWF are frontline or roar, with perfect timing. Perfect timing means you have to predict where he will roll, and be ready to stunn/ prone the TR in place, then sprint to him and takedown. You think it is that easy? It is not, if the TR knows what he's doing ad times his powers correctly. Plus, with cc reduced now, by the time you run where the TR is, he will probably be up again and ready to dodge. Also: such TR build can use barkshield more effectively. A GWF using barkshield can have the enchant cancelled by 3 at-will hits. A TR with hybrid build usually can be DPSed fast only for a brief period of time, which means your barkshield will absorb a part of the GWF encounters. So playing as a GWF against such TRs, is not thank to some "OP stuff" we have, since such TRs have all the weapons to counter our threat rush, frontline and tankiness.
Where IV GWF tanks put TRs under pressure is AFTER they manage to catch them. Cause after that they can mark them, threat rush and reduce their stealth thanks to deep gash damage. Still, the TR can go ITC again and restart.
I mean really, TRs have monster evading abilities, the best among all classes to avoid damage (aka avoid healing depression). Crits were nerfed, but you still have that shocking execution move that hits even tanks for 16-19k and cannot be dodged by GWFs. And tons of survivability with a proper build. I really love hybrid TRs, cause even when they kick your ***, it feels like they did it with skills. It's their ability to time and switch from ITC-dodge roll immunity-stealth-evade, vs your ability to catch them in that tiny millisecond when they are not immune to damage or hiding in the shadows. And, also, their ability to evade during stealth vs my ability to guess where they are hiding and sprint to them (which is easy when fighting on a point, even though i met strong TRs who could outthink me pretty well. Much harder when fighting off node, but i usually avoid such fights).
Among all classes, TRs to me look like the only ones that could keep up with GWFs in module 2. That's why i don't understand all the massive whine going on in the TR community since module 2 release. They are now where they need to be. GWFs need some more fixes such as threat rush range reduced, unstoppable from % of HP loss to make it the same on regular builds and high HP builds, and may be ArP moved to STR from CON, to force tradeoff between defense and attack in PvP.
Also, keep in mind that GWFs are easy to use at a basic level. But if you want to go above that level, they are hard to master. Above that level means being able to time your unstoppable and not just pop it as soon as you have it available, being able to catch a hybrid TR like i said above, and the ability to use your sprint and footwork at its full potential to dodge other GWF/GFs prones and Attacks, and not just to run away when you're in a pinch.
For example, when i face sentinel tanks that are stronger than me at facetanking, to win i try to fool them, which means not just running away from them after i finish my combo and they can go unstoppable, but also, for example, sprint suddenly in the opposite direction, make them believe you will move in a circle, then suddenly sprint past them when they think they got you, then change direction again, force them not just to chase you, but also to turn often to follow your movements. It's not that easy, to make a GWF/GF waste even 1 or 2 of their frontline or prones using sprint.
I don't know if CWs can do what your mate do. I hope they can, cause it would give them something to work on and hope, and would prove, if only a bit, that adapting to the changes can make you improve (still think some classes need LOVE in PvP. And some need love in PvE too, like GFs).
First off sir, you need to get your facts straight
Perm stealth isn't a cheat it's obtained through a very specific build, and even then you can die from boss AoE in PVE, nor is it even a legitimately viable PvP build atthe current time,and the current build people refer to incorrectly as "Permstealth" Is actually a hybrid that runs SS and ITC, coming out of stealth only to ITC ad stealth up again
Either you confuse many things, either you do not know what your classes. The debate is not about stealth, but the Perma stealth / immune.
Immune = invulnerable controls + very high protection to damage. Otherwise, a rogue could not kill a boss T2 alone.
Finally, just because a small % of the TR population uses the REAL PERMANENT stealth build dosen't mean we have to go ahead and nerf the stats into oblivion and make our last viable Burst damage encounter do less damage then our utility encounters. All the while we weren't the true issue, neither was the survivability of your typical player
You play this game really? I think not! I just play 10 bg, there is almost that and the nerve was useless, I can confirm. This is equivalent to the cheat specialization existed since the release of the game, it's amazing that players still pretend to ignore what is really happening in the game.
There is no possible fight against, this is not pvp. This specialization and the gwf are cancers for this game.
Then you've self-gimped your damage by trying to make a tank out of a melee-DPS. Afterall, that's what every MI build TR has been trying to follow blindly without ever considering its consequences. Going perma or semi-perma was a conscious choice of yours, was it not? Relatively low damage, huge HP pool, invest everything into stealth and recharge... and what, you frickin' expect to be able to do hefty spike damage to kill stuff on top of that?
Sure, that was possible before the changes. But it's no more. You going to keep crying over spilt milk?
* Assuming your last shot landed a 621, with that damage your initial shot would be 1863.
* De-apply the Tenacity DamRes at 20% and your original damage of IS is 2328.
* De-apply the Tenacity CritRes at 20% and your original damage of IS is 2910
Since you're holding back on exact parameters and conditions of that how that hit transpired, there could be any number of reasons as to how you can score a 3k crit hit with IS... including "your stats/spec sucked even before the patch" and/or "you simply misidentifed a deflected hit and saw things wrong".
I've already been doing fine without ITC, without +30k HP, without IS, without DF, without high INT/recharge long before the patch... so tell me how some people using PoB is going to make me "Q.Q.". The only people I see QQing in this thread are the TRs that seems to imply they need that one-button mashing, quadruple 8k hits to kill anything, or else the world is going to come to an end.
Wo-ho! Coming from people who are making 8-page pile of QQ posts, and I'm the one 'not built for PvP'? Real PvPers simply adapt, bro. True story. Only the wannabes cry over every single bit of change that might force them to learn new things.
The story of the Impact Shot was simply to demonstrate just how skewed and warped views some TRs have on the reality of balance. If they can be so much biased about IS and what it should do, no reason to believe that their views on stats or PvP may not be equally thrown-off the center.
Is it me, or is someone feeling so very defensive? Suddenly, this is about me? I am destined to suck and "fall behind"... ROFL.
Tough words, coming from a QQer.
Tell you what. Keep the soap opera going. Maybe they'll take pity on you and bring IS back to all its one-button mashing glory. I'll make sure to think about all you drama queens and doomsayers as I enjoy myself thoroughly in many PvP matches to come. So some versions my class is strong, sometimes not. Big deal.
Evolve, my friend, evolve.
And on note of the impact shot, last patch my typical non crit was about 3000-3500
the math your saying truly dosent work out because you left out the crucial fact that Impact shot recieved an additional 33% nerf and TBH, I could care less about any math you post about defenseless pugs
I've been using a TR since beta, I know every build.I've been there for the glass cannon teneborus and helped pioneer the current Bilethorn recovery TR
And I can tell you that unless they release a new encounter power, the only thing left to evolve to is PoB, which is an unfun, unfair alternative
Also, please don't directly attack me on the forums, It's a violation of the rules, Keep all posts constructive to the thread
Really now, I'm the wanna be and I'm gimping my damage eh? Okay, how about we have some 1v1's to compare builds and such, I'm sure it would be very educational I'm around Every day from 6 PM server time till 12 PM and on occasion in between the off hours.
With the state of the new que system and how it is totally random
that match might take a year to align with the moon and the stars and then you still have to get the other 8 players to not play.
With the state of the new que system and how it is totally random
that match might take a year to align with the moon and the stars and then you still have to get the other 8 players to not play.
It's not necessarily a challenge, he claims to know a very good viable build, If so I want to see it and compare it for the sake of the community, that is all :rolleyes:
Because I can't really comprehend any decent build being made the day of release on top of the fact that the Options for TR gear is DEPLORABLE
It's not necessarily a challenge, he claims to know a very good viable build, If so I want to see it and compare it for the sake of the community, that is all :rolleyes:
Because I can't really comprehend any decent build being made the day of release on top of the fact that the Options for TR gear is DEPLORABLE
The build is awesome! The secret is whisperknife! /sarcasm
All joke aside, lets get back to the foundation. This made the TR role on a premade level linear and one sided. Even though its still possible to be affective, the once many ways of doing so have dwindled to only a few viable paths, and the lack of varying stat allocations on our set make this ever more so harder to achieve. The fundemental issue with everyone using the same build is predictability and over all boredum of both the rogue and opposing gameplay in its entirety
As of last patch the TR has become ever more so linear, our capabilities in a real top gear premade slowly dwindling. And with fully geared 40k HP, will one rotation you if you give them the chance CW's roaming around with the additional set back that DC's couldnt heal even mr regen happy wolverine, The options of what we can do verse classes of = skill and gear have depleted.
At the core, we need the reinstitution of a Profound battlefield skulker stat allocation, and buffs to once viable damage encounters that have frankly become useless
It was about time, i am glad the developers have now started to drag the TR back down to earth. Ok, they can still solo bosses and exploit terrain glitches by jump+dodge at once but hopefully not for too long anymore. I can't wait for the stealth - mechanic changes to go live. It would most likely put a stop to the constant exploiting and since exploiting is bad and we all like to play a nice and clean game... 1+1=2
It would be great, if they fixed jumping + dodging terrain exploits next, by just disabling dodging during a jump since no other class can do it TR's should not be able to do it, either.
Good job devs.
YES!!!! Lets became skilless button mashing cave man that dont get out of the way of damage or hide behind terrain and use it to their advantage it makes perfet sense!!!!
Wow, lots of hate in all directions in this thread, try to keep it civil guys, many of us are not interested in seeing pages of useless fighting.
I'm also worried about DF not giving CC inmunity anymore, but so far it seems like it could be a bug, we'll have to see about that. because I use a lot in PVE and with lots of enemies that would suck...
Not too fond of the new armor stats either, but it looks like we're not the only class that's suffering with it.
About IS, well, if it was so powerful before, then it's weird that I've seen hardly any TR's using it later, I never used it because I thought it wasn't very good, and I think Iv'e seen others use it on my just a couple of times before, if it was such a monster before why didn't more peple use it?
I'm also worried about the TR slowly turning into a 1 valid build class.
Well I finally managed a match with my Scoundrel TR, and I have to say I don't feel gimped. But then I'm low GS and not particularly skilled so my expectations are rather low.
Got a decent number of kills and finished 4th on the winning team in a close match that finished 5v4 so I'm a happy camper.
finally got to test pvp and feels like nothing changed except i am tankier than everyone else lol. duelist flurry gave me immunity as usual so not sure if that is bugged or not.
fights end just as quick as b4 except all the squishies may live like 2-3 seconds longer while i can live for potentially 10-20 seconds longer without heals if i am not focus fired down. guardians/gwf's seem even easier to kill after this update although i have yet to fight the good gwf's *shudders*
loving how gwf combos don't hit as hard anymore as it allows me to fight them easier.
dropped impact shot and swapped back in impossible to catch as cc is still as prevalent as ever although i did try dazing strike for a bit b4 deciding that it is still pathetic to use on anyone that isn't a guardian. still love my lashing/deft strike combo as it's my middle finger to all hunters/wizards. never been a fan of path of blades so i will leave that unused unless i feel like playing different one day xD.
shocking execution hits the same so that's nice
1 good change is that there are less leavers, but meh...... 5 vs 4 is nearly guaranteed anyways.
Comments
I had very similar overall impressions from my short experience in PvP today as well.
On my GF I had a very hard time chaining CC. Terrifying Menace is pretty useless in PvP now because of its activation time. I can also add that the one Cleric I encountered was amazing. Those people we whittled down to 25%? He had plenty of time to skirt from one base to another bringing them all back up to full and could survive long enough to receive assistance when we started targeting him. Ended up with the high score of the match from being on every cap when it was taken and having so many assists.
Mostly I'm excited to see the matchmaking system in action. One of my matches was 1000 to zero. Really hoping that we won't be seeing a lot of matches like that anymore as soon as people develop their ELO scores.
There wasn't a single leaver or AFKer in any of the matches I played. Everyone fought to the end. That alone is worth a 20 minute queue time.
The rogues permacheat who kill solo first boss on CN are those who walk it in pvp and Gauntlgrym against several players, do not forget.
Exactly. that's why i wrote about mixing sets but still there are two sets power/crit and none crit/arm_pen.
Gear will always have drawbacks. You always have to give up one stat to make room for another. Lots of people have lots of different builds - there will never (and should never) be one set that is so good it's perfect for everyone.
There's no GF set with HP and regen on it. In fact the only regen set has NO power on it.
Stat allocation is an integral part of character building. You will never be offered the perfect, catch all set.
First off sir, you need to get your facts straight
Perm stealth isn't a cheat it's obtained through a very specific build, and even then you can die from boss AoE in PVE, nor is it even a legitimately viable PvP build atthe current time,and the current build people refer to incorrectly as "Permstealth" Is actually a hybrid that runs SS and ITC, coming out of stealth only to ITC ad stealth up again
Second
Master infiltrator
Whisper Knife
IT is a rogues Job to Stealth past several people and cap a point, it's in our names
Thirdly, As stated before our first intended roll was to have the highest single target DPS, but now we probably have the worst above DC
Finally, just because a small % of the TR population uses the REAL PERMANENT stealth build dosen't mean we have to go ahead and nerf the stats into oblivion and make our last viable Burst damage encounter do less damage then our utility encounters. All the while we weren't the true issue, neither was the survivability of your typical player
the only true issue we had about pvp last patch was GWF's damage with a basically god mode status
TR got slapped and I don't even think it was intended...
R.I.P
Now you TR can experience the pain all the GF players have felt. No worry, the justice would come for the mighty GWFs one day, just not today, not this patch :P
Jesus Christ, dersi, enough is enough, and that goes as well for every single TR boarding the whiney QQ train here.
...
You want to talk about Impact Shot?
Previously an encounter that has 3 set charges with 0 delay in between shots, a single shot capable of landing anywhere between 6k~8k damage on crits, amounting up to 4 consecutive shots starting from stealth and easily capable of racking over 20k damage in such a short time frame. If you get hit with unlucky timing, with that positioning jerking caused by the repel you can't even enter dodge.
It doesn't matter if you catch a TR who leaves himself wide-open for your attack combo. Even if you successfully knock him down to half-HP, there comes the IS-IS-IS spam and BAM!, now he has higher HP.
Easily higher damage in total when compared to LB, yet many more times easier to land since its just point-and-click ranged power. You don't even need the risk of going in close to melee range. That's how stupidly no-brainer easy mode this power was.
Its a frickin' hypocrisy coming from TRs using IS spamming, when they complain about GWFs or GFs chain-proning combos, because in any other squishy's shoes (HRs or CWs) its just as bullshi* chain proning when the IS spamming starts. Get puckered all over from knives from stealth, and at the last moment the TR pops out with an IS, *BooM!*, 8k gone and stunned, *BooM!* another guranteed 7k strike to your HP right there, and that alone's 15k HP gone in 2 seconds, the worst part being 2 more IS shots are coming sometime within the next 5 seconds.
Sure, the people who use this loves it. Anyone can see why. But try actually looking at it frome the whole perspective that includes all classes, and there's no way Impact Shot was going to remain as it was. I've long ago warned about this; that IS is too powerful, something's going to be done about it, and people should start learn to throw the easy-mode crutches away and find alternative options. A classic "I told you so" moment for me right here.
The developers could have easily just chopped off 30~40% damage from the top as a whole, but no. They actually gave us an option and a choice. Don't spam IS and use it in steady intervals, or spam it for extra damage/interrupt duration at the price of diminishing damage level.
Assuming someone has almost full Tenacity set, that's 20% flat DR. Your 8k IS will be hitting for 6.4k through the 20% Ten.filter, your next spam will hit for 4.2k, and your final shot for 2.1k. If you start from stealth, that's a 2-charge level free IS which would be another 4.2k. Four consecutive crits will still land you around 17k damage in total. Sure, it's not the theoretical 32k damage you could have expected before, but don't you think that was simply OP?
As a TR I've stopped using IS a long time ago because it was simply lame as hell, easy-mode crutch power that you could faceroll the keyboard with and still land you a win in many cases -- provided you start spamming it at the right timing. From where I stand, frankly you guys look like a bunch of addicts preaching how getting rid of cocaine from your system is so lame and unfair.
Geez, enough with the melodrama. Learn to adapt. Its not as if the world is ending or something. Use IS in set intervals, if that's not enough spiking think of some other way to increase the damage output by using some other skill or something. Isn't that thinking, researching, experimenting to find new ways and methods the whole point of PvP??
Sheeeeesh.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Firstly, The TR's your talking about with that type of damage typically have very low HP and therefore die very fast
and how do those #'s even matter when Impact shot crits for as low as 623 now
your crying that It deserved a nerf eh? Lets see how much you Q.Q when everyone finds out how OP the new skill-less monster of PoB is.
and if the stun affected you that much, you weren't built right for pvp
Also this patch isnt about Impact shot, Impact shot is a minor issue in the grand scheme of this thread. This thread is about all the new found issues with TR from things such as IS, to things such as the terrible new stat allocation
Furthermore, I have already done research and have a new build planned. But just because I know how to work with bullcrap dosent mean the majority of the TR's do. Because quite frankly, unless your using a build similar to what I have plan, your TR will be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and your TR will fall behind. To make matters worse, the build I have planned is worse then things that were once achievable due to proper gear
Next time please formulate your thread response to account for end level PvP with fair gear in and skill level, because frankly, I haven't been combo'd to death by 8k+ Impact shots once.
In PvP, i see them still strong, moreover now that we have healing depression and these "hybrid builds" pretty much can avoid damage a lot. They need some buff in PvE though. And a change in dungeon design to make their single target DPS shine.
Talking about getting facts straight...
GWF have many builds. You're talking about Iron Vanguard sentinel regeneration tanks (just a note, since it seems important to you to note how builds must be specified). And, while it is OP (much less now with new changes, can be taken down much faster 2v1), it is not god mode. Good players can easily take them down 2v1. Stated several times by top PvPers too.
There are issues and OPness. Still something left to fix. But right now GWFs, with healing depression, go down pretty easily 2v1. Which is good. But no god mode, if you know how to face them.
I was proving a point
My TR was known for taking down Senti Gwf's 1v1, but that still dosen't mean I had the advantage, nor that they didnt have some pretty OP qualities to them
It was basically Hit them over and over again for about 3 minutes without getting caught in more then 2 rotations by them
Now they really aren't an issue, I'm more concerned now about CW's
A CW in my guild can currently 1 rotation any class atm, and He has 40k HP with 2.4k crit and 2.5k armor penetration
not saying they need a nerf but its pretty scary
and what class was CW's natrual predator....? TR!
And what class got nerfed into oblivion again...? TR!
And what class became super OP the last time they Nerfed TR!? GWF!
TR has been the balance class, keeping other classes inline since open beta
but at some point there won't be anything left to nerf
What are rogues supposed to do? We're extremely squishy, we have very few control effects, good consistent damage, but very little burst damage. If I were a TR going for a damage build previously, I'd have had Lashing Blade, Impact Shot, and something else. To deal with this change, I can just swap out Impact shot for Shadow Strike or Impossible to Catch, and get a few more at wills in to make up the damage.
How powerful rogues are hasn't changed with this nerf. Lots of perma stealth builds didn't use Impact Shot before. What's changed is that the options when maximizing a TR are much much narrower.
Then you've self-gimped your damage by trying to make a tank out of a melee-DPS. Afterall, that's what every MI build TR has been trying to follow blindly without ever considering its consequences. Going perma or semi-perma was a conscious choice of yours, was it not? Relatively low damage, huge HP pool, invest everything into stealth and recharge... and what, you frickin' expect to be able to do hefty spike damage to kill stuff on top of that?
Sure, that was possible before the changes. But it's no more. You going to keep crying over spilt milk?
* Assuming your last shot landed a 621, with that damage your initial shot would be 1863.
* De-apply the Tenacity DamRes at 20% and your original damage of IS is 2328.
* De-apply the Tenacity CritRes at 20% and your original damage of IS is 2910
Since you're holding back on exact parameters and conditions of that how that hit transpired, there could be any number of reasons as to how you can score a 3k crit hit with IS... including "your stats/spec sucked even before the patch" and/or "you simply misidentifed a deflected hit and saw things wrong".
I've already been doing fine without ITC, without +30k HP, without IS, without DF, without high INT/recharge long before the patch... so tell me how some people using PoB is going to make me "Q.Q.". The only people I see QQing in this thread are the TRs that seems to imply they need that one-button mashing, quadruple 8k hits to kill anything, or else the world is going to come to an end.
Wo-ho! Coming from people who are making 8-page pile of QQ posts, and I'm the one 'not built for PvP'?
The story of the Impact Shot was simply to demonstrate just how skewed and warped views some TRs have on the reality of balance. If they can be so much biased about IS and what it should do, no reason to believe that their views on stats or PvP may not be equally thrown-off the center.
Is it me, or is someone feeling so very defensive? Suddenly, this is about me? I am destined to suck and "fall behind"... ROFL.
Tough words, coming from a QQer.
Tell you what. Keep the soap opera going. Maybe they'll take pity on you and bring IS back to all its one-button mashing glory. I'll make sure to think about all you drama queens and doomsayers as I enjoy myself thoroughly in many PvP matches to come. So some versions my class is strong, sometimes not. Big deal.
Evolve, my friend, evolve.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Also many CW spells are broken and don't profit from ArP, and 2.5K ArP is nothing to write home about, R10 CWs from your guild had 2400-2700 ArP before the update already.
I have no reasons to not believe you when you say 1 rotation (with daily?) is enough, yet I would still want to see it with my own eyes, I assume I will soon do.
I'm curious however, is this 1 rotation CW kill include geared GWFs at 40K+ HP?
Amen to that
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
On topic, the new sets are pretty bad and give no direction to TRs. I will wait to see how other classes develop and build in response. My rogues will be taken off the selves only for minimum daily farming at best. With the rumors of stealth rework and the last round of nerfs, it is simply not worth investing in playtesting builds at the moment.
Look: on your first lines, you basically say "i was able to kite and DPS down sentinel GWFs, but it was cause i was good while they are OP". That's something i read often. I take down a sentinel GWF tank (or, more often, a generic GWF, since people believe they are all OP), i am a pro. They take me down/ can counter me, well, it's obviously cause they are OP.
Now, while IV sentinel tanks are OP compared to some other classes (my opinion), TRs are NOT one of these poor classes that need a buff. That hybrid TR build is a very good way to play a TR and requires skill. But it is strong also cause TRs have all the weapons they need: they have ITC, they have dodge roll immunity, they have stealth, and can combine all this stuff and even more, to be a ghost that comes out of the shadows, hits you, face you briefly, and fades into the shadows again.
A GWF does not have a "magic wand" to counter this, you know. GWFs have the tankiness and unstoppable to take the beating while trying to catch the TR. Threat rush, if the TR is good, is not that useful against this build, cause these TRs usually fade into stealth as soon as they get our of ITC, and TR animation can't keep up with the move (dodge roll away into stealth, dodge roll again to evade, hide). The best bet for a GWF are frontline or roar, with perfect timing. Perfect timing means you have to predict where he will roll, and be ready to stunn/ prone the TR in place, then sprint to him and takedown. You think it is that easy? It is not, if the TR knows what he's doing ad times his powers correctly. Plus, with cc reduced now, by the time you run where the TR is, he will probably be up again and ready to dodge. Also: such TR build can use barkshield more effectively. A GWF using barkshield can have the enchant cancelled by 3 at-will hits. A TR with hybrid build usually can be DPSed fast only for a brief period of time, which means your barkshield will absorb a part of the GWF encounters. So playing as a GWF against such TRs, is not thank to some "OP stuff" we have, since such TRs have all the weapons to counter our threat rush, frontline and tankiness.
Where IV GWF tanks put TRs under pressure is AFTER they manage to catch them. Cause after that they can mark them, threat rush and reduce their stealth thanks to deep gash damage. Still, the TR can go ITC again and restart.
I mean really, TRs have monster evading abilities, the best among all classes to avoid damage (aka avoid healing depression). Crits were nerfed, but you still have that shocking execution move that hits even tanks for 16-19k and cannot be dodged by GWFs. And tons of survivability with a proper build. I really love hybrid TRs, cause even when they kick your ***, it feels like they did it with skills. It's their ability to time and switch from ITC-dodge roll immunity-stealth-evade, vs your ability to catch them in that tiny millisecond when they are not immune to damage or hiding in the shadows. And, also, their ability to evade during stealth vs my ability to guess where they are hiding and sprint to them (which is easy when fighting on a point, even though i met strong TRs who could outthink me pretty well. Much harder when fighting off node, but i usually avoid such fights).
Among all classes, TRs to me look like the only ones that could keep up with GWFs in module 2. That's why i don't understand all the massive whine going on in the TR community since module 2 release. They are now where they need to be. GWFs need some more fixes such as threat rush range reduced, unstoppable from % of HP loss to make it the same on regular builds and high HP builds, and may be ArP moved to STR from CON, to force tradeoff between defense and attack in PvP.
Also, keep in mind that GWFs are easy to use at a basic level. But if you want to go above that level, they are hard to master. Above that level means being able to time your unstoppable and not just pop it as soon as you have it available, being able to catch a hybrid TR like i said above, and the ability to use your sprint and footwork at its full potential to dodge other GWF/GFs prones and Attacks, and not just to run away when you're in a pinch.
For example, when i face sentinel tanks that are stronger than me at facetanking, to win i try to fool them, which means not just running away from them after i finish my combo and they can go unstoppable, but also, for example, sprint suddenly in the opposite direction, make them believe you will move in a circle, then suddenly sprint past them when they think they got you, then change direction again, force them not just to chase you, but also to turn often to follow your movements. It's not that easy, to make a GWF/GF waste even 1 or 2 of their frontline or prones using sprint.
I don't know if CWs can do what your mate do. I hope they can, cause it would give them something to work on and hope, and would prove, if only a bit, that adapting to the changes can make you improve (still think some classes need LOVE in PvP. And some need love in PvE too, like GFs).
Immune = invulnerable controls + very high protection to damage. Otherwise, a rogue could not kill a boss T2 alone.
You play this game really? I think not! I just play 10 bg, there is almost that and the nerve was useless, I can confirm. This is equivalent to the cheat specialization existed since the release of the game, it's amazing that players still pretend to ignore what is really happening in the game.
There is no possible fight against, this is not pvp. This specialization and the gwf are cancers for this game.
And on note of the impact shot, last patch my typical non crit was about 3000-3500
the math your saying truly dosent work out because you left out the crucial fact that Impact shot recieved an additional 33% nerf and TBH, I could care less about any math you post about defenseless pugs
I've been using a TR since beta, I know every build.I've been there for the glass cannon teneborus and helped pioneer the current Bilethorn recovery TR
And I can tell you that unless they release a new encounter power, the only thing left to evolve to is PoB, which is an unfun, unfair alternative
Also, please don't directly attack me on the forums, It's a violation of the rules, Keep all posts constructive to the thread
Really now, I'm the wanna be and I'm gimping my damage eh? Okay, how about we have some 1v1's to compare builds and such, I'm sure it would be very educational I'm around Every day from 6 PM server time till 12 PM and on occasion in between the off hours.
Please stay on point and Keep all issues related to TR on a PvP Basis
With the state of the new que system and how it is totally random
that match might take a year to align with the moon and the stars and then you still have to get the other 8 players to not play.
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
It's not necessarily a challenge, he claims to know a very good viable build, If so I want to see it and compare it for the sake of the community, that is all :rolleyes:
Because I can't really comprehend any decent build being made the day of release on top of the fact that the Options for TR gear is DEPLORABLE
The build is awesome! The secret is whisperknife!
As of last patch the TR has become ever more so linear, our capabilities in a real top gear premade slowly dwindling. And with fully geared 40k HP, will one rotation you if you give them the chance CW's roaming around with the additional set back that DC's couldnt heal even mr regen happy wolverine, The options of what we can do verse classes of = skill and gear have depleted.
At the core, we need the reinstitution of a Profound battlefield skulker stat allocation, and buffs to once viable damage encounters that have frankly become useless
YES!!!! Lets became skilless button mashing cave man that dont get out of the way of damage or hide behind terrain and use it to their advantage it makes perfet sense!!!!
I'm also worried about DF not giving CC inmunity anymore, but so far it seems like it could be a bug, we'll have to see about that. because I use a lot in PVE and with lots of enemies that would suck...
Not too fond of the new armor stats either, but it looks like we're not the only class that's suffering with it.
About IS, well, if it was so powerful before, then it's weird that I've seen hardly any TR's using it later, I never used it because I thought it wasn't very good, and I think Iv'e seen others use it on my just a couple of times before, if it was such a monster before why didn't more peple use it?
I'm also worried about the TR slowly turning into a 1 valid build class.
Got a decent number of kills and finished 4th on the winning team in a close match that finished 5v4 so I'm a happy camper.
Oh - and PoB appears to be a beast now. Who knew?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
fights end just as quick as b4 except all the squishies may live like 2-3 seconds longer while i can live for potentially 10-20 seconds longer without heals if i am not focus fired down. guardians/gwf's seem even easier to kill after this update although i have yet to fight the good gwf's *shudders*
loving how gwf combos don't hit as hard anymore as it allows me to fight them easier.
dropped impact shot and swapped back in impossible to catch as cc is still as prevalent as ever although i did try dazing strike for a bit b4 deciding that it is still pathetic to use on anyone that isn't a guardian. still love my lashing/deft strike combo as it's my middle finger to all hunters/wizards. never been a fan of path of blades so i will leave that unused unless i feel like playing different one day xD.
shocking execution hits the same so that's nice
1 good change is that there are less leavers, but meh...... 5 vs 4 is nearly guaranteed anyways.