It's not entirely clear what you're talking about, and it's possible that you're shaky on it too. The ability to enter a room ahead of your party, pull all the mobs, group them on you, and whack them with a sword until they die, with very little damage on the party is close enough to tanking for me, as it was in the various other MMOs in which I have tanked. However, thank you so much for playing, I hope your class becomes in some way relevant again in future.
no, sir, it makes you well equipped kamikase that benefits from a bug. you pull the enemies approaching them - pff - groups them on the basis of kitte, and secure the threat by having high and constant damage accumulating just an attribute and a feat (I think sad, this I agree.).
create a dc, and run with a pug - nothing cw with perfect vorpal - and see how depressing an average gwf trying to do the same or defend the party, facing group by group (and do not get me wrong, I'm not complaining so be it).
... Which brings us to the module 1 when NOBODY wanted a gwf. but this does not imply also to say that at this time the gf was the king of popularity ... he was not nobody cared. Much less with gwf
now everyone is so engaged; boring is that always begins with: "The problem of gf is the gwf damage "...
I will repeat again, for the umpteenth time in thousandths topic: the gwf is not internally cohesive, and between us, iv closed the possibility of plenty of rebalancing, but any argument saying that gwf is somehow the problem is the pve thing for those who arrived yesterday or you're lying.
I will always remember the moment I read a guy saying that he longed to see the gwf again have 20% cw damage. and this is enough for me.
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willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited March 2014
Meanwhile, nerfing the AoE of CW
So, you're saying having a control class control instead of control AND DPS would hurt the game? HR can pick up the AOE DPS or GWF. CW should control, having more than you need to control mobs should slow the party down with lower DPS. How pretty much any game with DPS, Control, Heal, Tank works.
By your logic to even things out we should give HRs singularity, so they can AOE DPS and control. Why not?
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited March 2014
Guys, seriously, this topic has been burned to the ground...
You can clear just about any dungeon with any class composition, providing people:
1) geared intelligently
2) speced intelligently
3) play intelligently
4) work together.
Often times people will overgear offense and undergear defense - so it's no shock they die all the time. Sometimes people have specs that are just not any good and make no sense, so of course they dont' do as well. Sometimes People do really dumb things (see mob, walk up, OH THIS BIG SLOW RED CIRCLE HERE, I SHOULD STAND IN IT) and die, and so many times, so often i see people who are good individuals who are poor team players, at least, most times i play outside of guild and/or legit - all these things are easily fixed for a small amount of AD. Considering there are several good guides for every class and lots of people who are helpful here, people can fix problems 1 and 2 without much effort.
It's not a question right now CW is the best class for CN, but why? Because now we are overgeared and we pull 3-4 encounters at a time. Against 20+ mobs CW and GWF are best because they AoE well.
But do you guys remember the day when we _weren't_ overgeared? I remember doing SP with like, 9k GS on TR (back when TR was good), or CW, or even my first day as a DC, i cleared spellplague, maybe i had 10 or 11k then because I bought up some gear and enchants, but way back before boons and artifacts, we were clearing things no problem.
But back then we needed TR to burn bosses and elites, we needed DC, and for my groups at least, GWF would tank, but i used to know a lot of GF that would tank and play great.
What happened now is everyone is obsessed with speed. I get called a bad player because my play style makes a run 2-3 minutes shorter - therefore i'm bad? I just 3-manned CN, using 0 potions and my SF didn't go off once? what planet are these people on?
So when people say they want GWF/DC/CW they say "i want this fast and easy," but bring the other classes it's not that different, maybe a little slower, a little harder, but honestly if you CW is _actually_ good, you only need one.
So really a lot of it is more culture than anything. Grab 5 guys and go, work together and win. Who cares if it's a 25 minute or 30 minute clear? Is it that important? Enjoy yourselves guys.
* * * * * * * * * *
This is not to say other classes don't need help. I can really carry a poor group on CW, but i couldn't on any other class.
Many of us (myself included) played TR first, eventually rolled a CW, and now our TR is on the shelf (I have a 15k TR i never play). Now with tenacity, TR is a permastealth, bilethorn, backcapper for PvP - which is annoying and I don't want to play that way.
GF is nice, but even played well, the buff/debuff is weak unless gimicky SM/tact/KC build, and the DPS is very sad. I have to try post patch though, i'm looking forward to it. (17.5-19k GF I never play)
GWF - Even to a primary CW player, this seems easymode. Do all my DPS and not have to dodge :S :S :S (15.7k GWF I never play)
DC - The adjustment is that lower end parties need more heals, and higher end parties need more buff/debuff. A good DC makes run so smooth and I like taking them, that said (OMG) a DC instead of a CW makes the run 3 minutes slower! We can't lose 3 minutes!
HR - this class is popular but ultimately poorly done. They are not very good PvE (AOE DPS with no CC), and they are super annoying as anything PvP (constricting arrow makes me want to break my PC). A side note is that this moment, I know THREE excellent HR on this server. The good HR in my guild ends every run with "i wish i played CW so I could be more help."
So much of it is design (too many adds), and geared (we actually CAN pull 30 mobs and be ok). If they make T3 dungeons, with less little adds and more big adds (say like MC), where we can't pull 30 mobs and be ok, then i think this problem goes away. It drives me crazy that CN is the one and only profitable dungeon.
easy fix would be nerf on sing target caps and aditional ap gain nerf of cw so no loonger super easy cc lock from sing if 3x cw in team,gf should have improved last feat of tank build to give him 25% cc resist,guard should be time based so it can tank trash not to lose shield also it would not hurt to buff itf and some other his skills ,tr need more utily for team,gwf is atm fine if they plan to ever nerf eye of storm on spell storm cw then deep gash should be reduced and dc needs a bit stronger heals or buffs and hrs buffs need buuf up with this changes i realy do think more classes would be wanted atm spell storm cw is just to op while mof is ok so if they nerf eye on spell storm and reduce ap gain should be fine also feat who give 15% damage boost to whole team should be changed to can work only from 1 cw
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited March 2014
If sing target cap is lowered... (already too low in most situations) enjoy getting face smashed by zombies, skeletons, and archers. Do a run and ask the CW no sing, no OF, see what happens. I suspect everyone will be unhappy.
If sing target cap is lowered... (already too low in most situations) enjoy getting face smashed by zombies, skeletons, and archers. Do a run and ask the CW no sing, no OF, see what happens. I suspect everyone will be unhappy.
we at least wont be able to speed run half dungeon since we got cc locks on trash from sing and would also make gf more wanted look just at fh where is sing useless on last boss ppl want gf for it fh is only dungeon where we are not forced to have cw and his cc locks from sing to finish
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Yup, sing is bad, let's not forget about Eye of the Storm either
Nerf them.
I will repeat again, for the umpteenth time in thousandths topic: the gwf is not internally cohesive, and between us, iv closed the possibility of plenty of rebalancing, but any argument saying that gwf is somehow the problem is the pve thing for those who arrived yesterday or you're lying.
OK, I have read and re-read this and it simply does not parse, so I'm giving you up as a bad job, sorry.
Comments
no, sir, it makes you well equipped kamikase that benefits from a bug. you pull the enemies approaching them - pff - groups them on the basis of kitte, and secure the threat by having high and constant damage accumulating just an attribute and a feat (I think sad, this I agree.).
create a dc, and run with a pug - nothing cw with perfect vorpal - and see how depressing an average gwf trying to do the same or defend the party, facing group by group (and do not get me wrong, I'm not complaining so be it).
... Which brings us to the module 1 when NOBODY wanted a gwf. but this does not imply also to say that at this time the gf was the king of popularity ... he was not nobody cared. Much less with gwf
now everyone is so engaged; boring is that always begins with: "The problem of gf is the gwf damage "...
I will repeat again, for the umpteenth time in thousandths topic: the gwf is not internally cohesive, and between us, iv closed the possibility of plenty of rebalancing, but any argument saying that gwf is somehow the problem is the pve thing for those who arrived yesterday or you're lying.
I will always remember the moment I read a guy saying that he longed to see the gwf again have 20% cw damage. and this is enough for me.
So, you're saying having a control class control instead of control AND DPS would hurt the game? HR can pick up the AOE DPS or GWF. CW should control, having more than you need to control mobs should slow the party down with lower DPS. How pretty much any game with DPS, Control, Heal, Tank works.
By your logic to even things out we should give HRs singularity, so they can AOE DPS and control. Why not?
You can clear just about any dungeon with any class composition, providing people:
1) geared intelligently
2) speced intelligently
3) play intelligently
4) work together.
Often times people will overgear offense and undergear defense - so it's no shock they die all the time. Sometimes people have specs that are just not any good and make no sense, so of course they dont' do as well. Sometimes People do really dumb things (see mob, walk up, OH THIS BIG SLOW RED CIRCLE HERE, I SHOULD STAND IN IT) and die, and so many times, so often i see people who are good individuals who are poor team players, at least, most times i play outside of guild and/or legit - all these things are easily fixed for a small amount of AD. Considering there are several good guides for every class and lots of people who are helpful here, people can fix problems 1 and 2 without much effort.
It's not a question right now CW is the best class for CN, but why? Because now we are overgeared and we pull 3-4 encounters at a time. Against 20+ mobs CW and GWF are best because they AoE well.
But do you guys remember the day when we _weren't_ overgeared? I remember doing SP with like, 9k GS on TR (back when TR was good), or CW, or even my first day as a DC, i cleared spellplague, maybe i had 10 or 11k then because I bought up some gear and enchants, but way back before boons and artifacts, we were clearing things no problem.
But back then we needed TR to burn bosses and elites, we needed DC, and for my groups at least, GWF would tank, but i used to know a lot of GF that would tank and play great.
What happened now is everyone is obsessed with speed. I get called a bad player because my play style makes a run 2-3 minutes shorter - therefore i'm bad? I just 3-manned CN, using 0 potions and my SF didn't go off once? what planet are these people on?
So when people say they want GWF/DC/CW they say "i want this fast and easy," but bring the other classes it's not that different, maybe a little slower, a little harder, but honestly if you CW is _actually_ good, you only need one.
So really a lot of it is more culture than anything. Grab 5 guys and go, work together and win. Who cares if it's a 25 minute or 30 minute clear? Is it that important? Enjoy yourselves guys.
* * * * * * * * * *
This is not to say other classes don't need help. I can really carry a poor group on CW, but i couldn't on any other class.
Many of us (myself included) played TR first, eventually rolled a CW, and now our TR is on the shelf (I have a 15k TR i never play). Now with tenacity, TR is a permastealth, bilethorn, backcapper for PvP - which is annoying and I don't want to play that way.
GF is nice, but even played well, the buff/debuff is weak unless gimicky SM/tact/KC build, and the DPS is very sad. I have to try post patch though, i'm looking forward to it. (17.5-19k GF I never play)
GWF - Even to a primary CW player, this seems easymode. Do all my DPS and not have to dodge :S :S :S (15.7k GWF I never play)
DC - The adjustment is that lower end parties need more heals, and higher end parties need more buff/debuff. A good DC makes run so smooth and I like taking them, that said (OMG) a DC instead of a CW makes the run 3 minutes slower! We can't lose 3 minutes!
HR - this class is popular but ultimately poorly done. They are not very good PvE (AOE DPS with no CC), and they are super annoying as anything PvP (constricting arrow makes me want to break my PC). A side note is that this moment, I know THREE excellent HR on this server. The good HR in my guild ends every run with "i wish i played CW so I could be more help."
So much of it is design (too many adds), and geared (we actually CAN pull 30 mobs and be ok). If they make T3 dungeons, with less little adds and more big adds (say like MC), where we can't pull 30 mobs and be ok, then i think this problem goes away. It drives me crazy that CN is the one and only profitable dungeon.
Sorry for rant, i'm hungry
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
we at least wont be able to speed run half dungeon since we got cc locks on trash from sing and would also make gf more wanted look just at fh where is sing useless on last boss ppl want gf for it fh is only dungeon where we are not forced to have cw and his cc locks from sing to finish
Nerf them.
nerf of sing and eye would bring so much harder cotent to
OK, I have read and re-read this and it simply does not parse, so I'm giving you up as a bad job, sorry.