They don't fix old bugs and reported issues before pushing it out. Hell my bet is that tomorrow if you "decline" a queue because you're afk you'll probably still end up with a leaver penalty. And any of the bugs in the new system (i.e. anyone want to touch on tenebrous or for the love of god the HR set bonus proccing an ungodly amount being 80%+ of their healing...) will probably not be fixed within the next few months, such is the way of neverwinter.
My GWF uses T1 PvP gear cause of the bonus HEALING during unstoppable, which i needed since my GWF is not a regeneration tank with monster HP, and the healing was very important. It gets a brute 50% nerf with healing depression.
My GWF damage relies on criticals and spike damage. Guess what, you're not the only one who went for a critical build for spike damage. 90% of players do that.
I used to use restoring strike cause i liked the power. Wait, it gets a nerf too with healing depression.
I use vorpal which will get a huge nerf, and right now it wil ltake a huge toll on me to build a terror enchant since the way i play (alone, no clan, not much time to play, money spent only for aestethics or respec, no credit card warrior) doesn't make me a AD billionaire and coal wards are at 200k AD now.
And again, i'm not a tank build. I'm not OP, i'm not immortal, i'm not a god in PvP, CWs can take me down if i make mistakes or if they are better than me. I'm a DPS build focused on high spike damage while trying to be more resilient than a Destroyer. Which means, with spike damage nerfed, i'm in the same boat as you, persephone.
I love how people make assumptions about me, that are wrong 99% of the time.
To you too: if you know nothing about someone, and about the build he uses, do not make assumptions.
I will have to heavily change my gear, my focus and the way i play. But i take it as a challenge and as an opportunity to try new stuff.
It's Always funny how this community behave.
They see you in PvP, they assume that since you are a GWF you are a sentinel IV tank. Which means, you've to tank 4-5 enemies or you're weak. But if you take them down, you're just another OP GWF. No matter if your build is not OP at all.
They see you on forums, and if you're a GWF you're for sure just a player who likes to play OP builds and everything you say is seen as an attempt to keep your class OP/ deceive people/ ignore problems.
I really wish people would actually stop making assumptions.
But it's the internetz, so i shouldn't be surprised.
Yeeah same like my sleeping Destroyer, I always had only take down as prone and other was mobility and glass cannon. And vs Sentinel I win if I was first with prone. Yeah Destroyer was really fun and there isn't fake encounters as on this stupid HR that I play at moment.
But I understand you very well. For your enemy you just play GWF...
But you are right we can just to wait and to see what will give to community this new update. This MMO have enough item expansions to be near by to be broken and date 04.04.14 is near
I am really want to stay a bit more here but the time will show me.
I agree with ayroux that CWs should keep their CC. It's their defense. Blink is useful, but right now i would may be give them 1 more teleport, and decrease threat rush range by half. Would help them a ton, along with the cc not being resisted.
I really hope devs will be able to balance every class in both PvP and PvE in a short period of time.
I also think ayroux, being a BiS GWF who tested tenacity a lot, is not wrong when he says no more 3v1-2v1.
I think about GWFs, cause of the IV sentinel tank OPness, things have gone a bit overboard. I often read things that are simply not true, with this kind of "myth" being pumped up. The build is OP, but it's not god mode. The new update will probably cancel the 2-3-4-5v1 issue.
I also agree that soulforged and vorpal are way too overused. Not everyone uses them, but i'ts rare to meet a player who's not using SF. And in PvP i'd say a good 85% of players use vorpal.
Spike damage will still be there, just reduced since, right now, everyone goes for spike damage, fast kills, no strategy. Persephone, i understand that you like a pure spike damage build with soulforged, but as much as sentinel IV tanks are OP, you should understand how the vorpal-soulforged combo, right now, is so far above anything else that almost every PvP player goes for them.
And being able to burn down an enemy in few seconds, alone, is not a funny way to PvP. I agree on the cc issue and CW combo issue, but i do not agree about the rage for spike damage soulforged builds getting less powerful. Right now, they are too powerful and take away strategy from PvP, imho.
Yeeah same like my sleeping Destroyer, I always had only take down as prone and other was mobility and glass cannon. And vs Sentinel I win if I was first with prone. Yeah Destroyer was really fun and there isn't fake encounters as on this stupid HR that I play at moment.
But I understand you very well. For your enemy you just play GWF...
But you are right we can just to wait and to see what will give to community this new update. This MMO have enough item expansions to be near by to be broken and date 04.04.14 is near
I am really want to stay a bit more here but the time will show me.
Yeah same with me. I've had 2 GWF's and neither of them has ever been sentinel. I've had an established playstyle for them both before people started flooding to the Sentinel build GWFs.
And this is what I ment when they first started talking about this tenacity and healing depression. Its going to start funneling people to the same cookie cutter builds and playstyles. To the point where basically every X class will be the same when encountered in pvp.
This is all going to bring more problems and complications than it solves. Just wait and see.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Spike damage will still be there, just reduced since, right now, everyone goes for spike damage, fast kills, no strategy. Persephone, i understand that you like a pure spike damage build with soulforged, but as much as sentinel IV tanks are OP, you should understand how the vorpal-soulforged combo, right now, is so far above anything else that almost every PvP player goes for them.
And being able to burn down an enemy in few seconds, alone, is not a funny way to PvP. I agree on the cc issue and CW combo issue, but i do not agree about the rage for spike damage soulforged builds getting less powerful. Right now, they are too powerful and take away strategy from PvP, imho.
Not true.
There's a LOT of strategy in high end matches, including debuffing, CCing, chain prones and target focusing etc. You're extremely wrong here. In organized PvP, where everybody has lots of HP and PvP build, things are balanced and spike damage is needed.
If you get focused, by 2-3 other players... you should go down.
Also I'm not a pure spike damage build by any means. I have a 33K hp CW with just 2K ArP. I have fellow CWs in guild that deal more damage and end up with more kills. I'm more of a CW that tries to survive as long as possible to offer support as long as possible.
If players are built correctly for PvP, with lots of HP, they don't die in one rotation (only if it all crits). If I understand this as a squish CW, not sure why it's harder to understand for GWF.
To be honest, I would rather take the currently OP IV sent that we have now any day over the incoming changes.
At least they can be brought down easily when focused properly while prone.
The main problem with Sentinel always is that Sentinel have high survivability and damage. If Cryptic fix second part all will be ok. And as Pando said in one other threat this is so simple and can be done really fast.
With good team HR + any other class can kill Sentinel at moment really easy and fast. If Cryptic fix Sentinel DMG all will be OK. At moment is not fair against Destroyer / Instigator because Sentinel have too much DMG. Because that ppl made prefer Sentinel. Fix on Sentinel DMG will fix both PVE and PVP. At moment there is no point to make other 2 because they can die easy for a bit more DPS which one is nonsense.
As I hear in incoming update Cryptic will fix prone chain and we will see can this fix the PVP problem or no.
Not true.
There's a LOT of strategy in high end matches, including debuffing, CCing, chain prones and target focusing etc. You're extremely wrong here. In organized PvP, where everybody has lots of HP and PvP build, things are balanced and spike damage is needed.
If you get focused, by 2-3 other players... you should go down.
Also I'm not a pure spike damage build by any means. I have a 33K hp CW with just 2K ArP. I have fellow CWs in guild that deal more damage and end up with more kills. I'm more of a CW that tries to survive as long as possible to offer support as long as possible.
If players are built correctly for PvP, with lots of HP, they don't die in one rotation (only if it all crits). If I understand this as a squish CW, not sure why it's harder to understand for GWF.
To be honest, I would rather take the currently OP IV sent that we have now any day over the incoming changes.
At least they can be brought down easily when focused properly while prone.
Exactly here. Red part. I know very well how to build a char for PvP. But as you say, right now, you've to go high HP to be viable in PvP. And that's why we have, talking about dedicated PvPers, only sentinel tanks, only tank builds or, at best, for some classes, half tank builds. Cause it's the only way to play PvP. Else, you don't even have time to react.
What tenacity could bring, once balanced correctly, is a way, along with PvP-specific gear, to create a PvP where not only high HP builds are viable. You obviously gear for PvP differently (PvP sets), but you don't need to be a 33k CW or a 40k hp GWF to be able to fight and put some strategy in your PvP.
Obviously it must be tweaked and balanced, but i'd say it's way better a system where you achieve a more tactical PvP through specific gear and stats, rather than a system where you either go high HP for PvP or normal HP for PvE.
Right now, you almost only see high HP, high regeneration, soulforged+vorpal toons in "high end PvP". Some TRs and few CWs i see using barkshield. But almost any class go high HP, high regeneration, cause, as you said, that's the only way you can play PvP.
Instead of being forced to go high HP, you get specific PvP gear that allows players to reduce spike damage and have more time to think/ react, even if they don't have high HP. Healing depression takes care of the tanks (GWFs or DCs) self healing like a machine after taking a beating.
I hope when things get fixed and balanced, we could se a use for DPS builds, destroyers, exc...
The main problem with Sentinel always is that Sentinel have high survivability and damage. If Cryptic fix second part all will be ok. And as Pando said in one other threat this is so simple and can be done really fast.
With good team HR + any other class can kill Sentinel at moment really easy and fast. If Cryptic fix Sentinel DMG all will be OK. At moment is not fair against Destroyer / Instigator because Sentinel have too much DMG. Because that ppl made prefer Sentinel. Fix on Sentinel DMG will fix both PVE and PVP. At moment there is no point to make other 2 because they can die easy for a bit more DPS which one is nonsense.
As I hear in incoming update Cryptic will fix prone chain and we will see can this fix the PVP problem or no.
I still think that moving ArP to STR and DoT resistance to CON would help a ton. Sentinels going STR-CON would lose crit and deflection.
Destroyers would get a serious buff in PvP damage over a CON-DEX sentinel.
Would force tradeoff between attack and defense in PvP to some degree.
STR best attribute for attack, since ArP is the best offensive stat for PvP.
CON best attribute for defense (high HP, DoT resistance)
DEX as a "support" attribute for defense (deflection) and attack (crit), since tenacity will reduce the importance of crit in PvP.
Right now, you con full CON, you get, for PvP, better damage than a STR build. Cause you get both best defensive attribute (HP) and offensive stat (ArP). No need for STR.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Exactly here. Red part. I know very well how to build a char for PvP. But as you say, right now, you've to go high HP to be viable in PvP. And that's why we have, talking about dedicated PvPers, only sentinel tanks, only tank builds or, at best, for some classes, half tank builds. Cause it's the only way to play PvP. Else, you don't even have time to react.
I hope when things get fixed and balanced, we could se a use for DPS builds, destroyers, exc...
If you think I wanna play tanky wizard you're wrong, I love squishy chars. I was just forced into this HP/Regen thing by how the game plays.
As for your hopes, sadly I think you will be extremely disappointed - from my tests. Some of the GWFs I know are significantly above 40K HP. Even CW with Tenacity set/jewelry is 29-35K HP or so, depending on set, Con and radiant enchants rank.
If you think people would give up on that HP for damage?
I know nobody that plans to do so.
HP is still king. DPS builds have almost no use, because of overall low damage, low survivability and crit nerf.
I still think that moving ArP to STR and DoT resistance to CON would help a ton. Sentinels going STR-CON would lose crit and deflection.
Destroyers would get a serious buff in PvP damage over a CON-DEX sentinel.
Would force tradeoff between attack and defense in PvP to some degree.
STR best attribute for attack, since ArP is the best offensive stat for PvP.
CON best attribute for defense (high HP, DoT resistance)
DEX as a "support" attribute for defense (deflection) and attack (crit), since tenacity will reduce the importance of crit in PvP.
Right now, you con full CON, you get, for PvP, better damage than a STR build. Cause you get both best defensive attribute (HP) and offensive stat (ArP). No need for STR.
they need to change feat who gives 15% damage on marked tragets to thread to
Tried the stuff finally. Took more time, around 10 minutes, to get into a match. Which sucked BBCs a bit. But i hope it will improve once the new matchmaking starts to crunch numbers.
In game: match was fun, balanced, head to head till 600-500, then we took the lead and won 1000-600 or so. No one left. 5v5 all the time.
We got me (GWF), 2 TRs, 2HRs.
Enemy: 1TR, 1GF, 1GWF, 1DC, 1HR
The TR was able to stall 2-3 of my team mates, tanking through the usual ITC-->dodge immunity-->stealth rotation.
I die much faster 2v1 or 3-4-5v1. I mean, really fast. Which is good.
Spike damage was still high, but might be cause enemies didn't have PvP sets yet, while i already had my old PvP set.
Can't say about other classes. Prones and chain prones are reduced a lot. Can still land my rotation, but needs to be REALLY fast, people get up in no time.
The DC felt like he needed some buff. Could still tank more then the HR, but behind the TR, the GF and the GWF. Not really enough. Needs more survivability/ more healing.
GF and GWF could tank my single target damage quite well.
Looks promising, but need a ton of work to balance stuff.
GWFs seem to still dominate, even if they can be taken down more easily now. DR from tenacity do not really compensate the monster loss in regenerating power. Which is good. Still need to fix the fact that they can go full tank and keep high spike damage.
More tests Tomorrow. Need to go sleep now.
Really hope things will improve and everyone gets to enjoy PvP again...
I still think that moving ArP to STR and DoT resistance to CON would help a ton. Sentinels going STR-CON would lose crit and deflection.
Destroyers would get a serious buff in PvP damage over a CON-DEX sentinel.
Would force tradeoff between attack and defense in PvP to some degree.
STR best attribute for attack, since ArP is the best offensive stat for PvP.
CON best attribute for defense (high HP, DoT resistance)
DEX as a "support" attribute for defense (deflection) and attack (crit), since tenacity will reduce the importance of crit in PvP.
Right now, you con full CON, you get, for PvP, better damage than a STR build. Cause you get both best defensive attribute (HP) and offensive stat (ArP). No need for STR.
I agree with this. I proposed just that a long time ago.
And they should have made wisdom give more control resist. Everything they have did they did not have to do. They could had worked everything Tenacity does into existing things already without damaging anything.
could have given everyone a straight % damage resistance in pvp zones.
Comments
Yeeah same like my sleeping Destroyer, I always had only take down as prone and other was mobility and glass cannon. And vs Sentinel I win if I was first with prone. Yeah Destroyer was really fun and there isn't fake encounters as on this stupid HR that I play at moment.
But I understand you very well. For your enemy you just play GWF...
But you are right we can just to wait and to see what will give to community this new update. This MMO have enough item expansions to be near by to be broken and date 04.04.14 is near
I am really want to stay a bit more here but the time will show me.
I really hope devs will be able to balance every class in both PvP and PvE in a short period of time.
I also think ayroux, being a BiS GWF who tested tenacity a lot, is not wrong when he says no more 3v1-2v1.
I think about GWFs, cause of the IV sentinel tank OPness, things have gone a bit overboard. I often read things that are simply not true, with this kind of "myth" being pumped up. The build is OP, but it's not god mode. The new update will probably cancel the 2-3-4-5v1 issue.
I also agree that soulforged and vorpal are way too overused. Not everyone uses them, but i'ts rare to meet a player who's not using SF. And in PvP i'd say a good 85% of players use vorpal.
Spike damage will still be there, just reduced since, right now, everyone goes for spike damage, fast kills, no strategy. Persephone, i understand that you like a pure spike damage build with soulforged, but as much as sentinel IV tanks are OP, you should understand how the vorpal-soulforged combo, right now, is so far above anything else that almost every PvP player goes for them.
And being able to burn down an enemy in few seconds, alone, is not a funny way to PvP. I agree on the cc issue and CW combo issue, but i do not agree about the rage for spike damage soulforged builds getting less powerful. Right now, they are too powerful and take away strategy from PvP, imho.
Yeah same with me. I've had 2 GWF's and neither of them has ever been sentinel. I've had an established playstyle for them both before people started flooding to the Sentinel build GWFs.
And this is what I ment when they first started talking about this tenacity and healing depression. Its going to start funneling people to the same cookie cutter builds and playstyles. To the point where basically every X class will be the same when encountered in pvp.
This is all going to bring more problems and complications than it solves. Just wait and see.
Not true.
There's a LOT of strategy in high end matches, including debuffing, CCing, chain prones and target focusing etc. You're extremely wrong here. In organized PvP, where everybody has lots of HP and PvP build, things are balanced and spike damage is needed.
If you get focused, by 2-3 other players... you should go down.
Also I'm not a pure spike damage build by any means. I have a 33K hp CW with just 2K ArP. I have fellow CWs in guild that deal more damage and end up with more kills. I'm more of a CW that tries to survive as long as possible to offer support as long as possible.
If players are built correctly for PvP, with lots of HP, they don't die in one rotation (only if it all crits). If I understand this as a squish CW, not sure why it's harder to understand for GWF.
To be honest, I would rather take the currently OP IV sent that we have now any day over the incoming changes.
At least they can be brought down easily when focused properly while prone.
With good team HR + any other class can kill Sentinel at moment really easy and fast. If Cryptic fix Sentinel DMG all will be OK. At moment is not fair against Destroyer / Instigator because Sentinel have too much DMG. Because that ppl made prefer Sentinel. Fix on Sentinel DMG will fix both PVE and PVP. At moment there is no point to make other 2 because they can die easy for a bit more DPS which one is nonsense.
As I hear in incoming update Cryptic will fix prone chain and we will see can this fix the PVP problem or no.
Exactly here. Red part. I know very well how to build a char for PvP. But as you say, right now, you've to go high HP to be viable in PvP. And that's why we have, talking about dedicated PvPers, only sentinel tanks, only tank builds or, at best, for some classes, half tank builds. Cause it's the only way to play PvP. Else, you don't even have time to react.
What tenacity could bring, once balanced correctly, is a way, along with PvP-specific gear, to create a PvP where not only high HP builds are viable. You obviously gear for PvP differently (PvP sets), but you don't need to be a 33k CW or a 40k hp GWF to be able to fight and put some strategy in your PvP.
Obviously it must be tweaked and balanced, but i'd say it's way better a system where you achieve a more tactical PvP through specific gear and stats, rather than a system where you either go high HP for PvP or normal HP for PvE.
Right now, you almost only see high HP, high regeneration, soulforged+vorpal toons in "high end PvP". Some TRs and few CWs i see using barkshield. But almost any class go high HP, high regeneration, cause, as you said, that's the only way you can play PvP.
Instead of being forced to go high HP, you get specific PvP gear that allows players to reduce spike damage and have more time to think/ react, even if they don't have high HP. Healing depression takes care of the tanks (GWFs or DCs) self healing like a machine after taking a beating.
I hope when things get fixed and balanced, we could se a use for DPS builds, destroyers, exc...
I still think that moving ArP to STR and DoT resistance to CON would help a ton. Sentinels going STR-CON would lose crit and deflection.
Destroyers would get a serious buff in PvP damage over a CON-DEX sentinel.
Would force tradeoff between attack and defense in PvP to some degree.
STR best attribute for attack, since ArP is the best offensive stat for PvP.
CON best attribute for defense (high HP, DoT resistance)
DEX as a "support" attribute for defense (deflection) and attack (crit), since tenacity will reduce the importance of crit in PvP.
Right now, you con full CON, you get, for PvP, better damage than a STR build. Cause you get both best defensive attribute (HP) and offensive stat (ArP). No need for STR.
If you think I wanna play tanky wizard you're wrong, I love squishy chars. I was just forced into this HP/Regen thing by how the game plays.
As for your hopes, sadly I think you will be extremely disappointed - from my tests. Some of the GWFs I know are significantly above 40K HP. Even CW with Tenacity set/jewelry is 29-35K HP or so, depending on set, Con and radiant enchants rank.
If you think people would give up on that HP for damage?
I know nobody that plans to do so.
HP is still king. DPS builds have almost no use, because of overall low damage, low survivability and crit nerf.
they need to change feat who gives 15% damage on marked tragets to thread to
Poor poor <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. No-one wins......
GG for releasing content everybody enjoys, thank you all for participating in this useless topic.
Next time, my feedback will be directed to people that read&answer to it.
OK, now everybody back to enjoying queueing repeatedly for hours without any PvP.
In game: match was fun, balanced, head to head till 600-500, then we took the lead and won 1000-600 or so. No one left. 5v5 all the time.
We got me (GWF), 2 TRs, 2HRs.
Enemy: 1TR, 1GF, 1GWF, 1DC, 1HR
The TR was able to stall 2-3 of my team mates, tanking through the usual ITC-->dodge immunity-->stealth rotation.
I die much faster 2v1 or 3-4-5v1. I mean, really fast. Which is good.
Spike damage was still high, but might be cause enemies didn't have PvP sets yet, while i already had my old PvP set.
Can't say about other classes. Prones and chain prones are reduced a lot. Can still land my rotation, but needs to be REALLY fast, people get up in no time.
The DC felt like he needed some buff. Could still tank more then the HR, but behind the TR, the GF and the GWF. Not really enough. Needs more survivability/ more healing.
GF and GWF could tank my single target damage quite well.
Looks promising, but need a ton of work to balance stuff.
GWFs seem to still dominate, even if they can be taken down more easily now. DR from tenacity do not really compensate the monster loss in regenerating power. Which is good. Still need to fix the fact that they can go full tank and keep high spike damage.
More tests Tomorrow. Need to go sleep now.
Really hope things will improve and everyone gets to enjoy PvP again...
I agree with this. I proposed just that a long time ago.
And they should have made wisdom give more control resist. Everything they have did they did not have to do. They could had worked everything Tenacity does into existing things already without damaging anything.
could have given everyone a straight % damage resistance in pvp zones.