Female GWF and weapon scaling?

kap273

Just made a female GWF and so far the weapon scaling is silly to put it mildly. I understand they're supposed to wielding a massive two hander but the sword is just way too big for the character model. Does this get better later on in the game or just I just try to ignore it? Thanks!

abell39

Honestly the GWF weapon scaling is silly unless you make your character huge and muscular. I hear there are polearms and greataxes later on, so you'll have choices that aren't just Really Huge Swords.

morrisao

Hey, I LOVE my Really Huge Sword (TM).

Knocking mobs an unrealstic distance into the air? What's not to like?

After a bad day at the office it does me a world of good.. :D

ghoulz66

I transmuted my epic low level sword for my puny girl into a reasonable axe.

But then comes the silliness all over again. Killing enemies afar from my axe blowing wind in their face.

vortix44

Maybe it's more the race than the gender. My half-orc female gwf is nearly as tall as a male gwf, there is no issue with the sword. The blade is not clipping into the ground when in non-combat stance.
If the length of the sword scales, will that not create other issues? Like the foes being hit by the sword despite being, visually speaking, out of range.

tharkan

The only problem I have with weapon scaling right now is how the blade seems to change position. It looks normal when the weapon is unsheathed, but sheathed the blade shifts to the right, making it look off.

ladymythos

Actually, how well do you know real medieval weaponry? There were not only two-handed weapons (like swords and axes), but the weapons in the game is really not all that oversized. Put it this way: If you had a real, two-handed sword, you wouldn't be able to lift it. But that was the entire point. Two-handed swords, and especially axes, were meant to cause as much damage as possible. A full set of armor can easily withstand the blow of a normal sword, but a two-handed sword? Not a chance.

fondlez

ladymythos wrote: »

Actually, how well do you know real medieval weaponry? There were not only two-handed weapons (like swords and axes), but the weapons in the game is really not all that oversized. Put it this way: If you had a real, two-handed sword, you wouldn't be able to lift it. But that was the entire point. Two-handed swords, and especially axes, were meant to cause as much damage as possible. A full set of armor can easily withstand the blow of a normal sword, but a two-handed sword? Not a chance.

Rubbish. Real two-handed swords, as in not created for museum-pieces or ceremonial/parade pieces, have always weighed less than 8 lbs (3.6kg) and more often than not considerably less than that. If you cannot lift 3.6kg, you are either a toddler or have no business being anywhere near a melee weapon.

And, yes, if you are going for consistent looks in this game, the weapon size scaling seems to be tuned for the tallest possible characters, on which they can look fantastic!

For example, this one is male, unfortunately, but check out currently the top end GWF sword (not my pics):

angrysprite

Of all the character class weapons: Great Weapon Fighters ALWAYS make me laugh; seriously: the gigantic sword is an absolute joke; completely laughable. It's the one thing I see everywhere that totally breaks immersion for me: that dude or dame from Bugs Bunny Cartoons called the Great Weapon Fighter.

Especially if the race is elf or... wait for it... waaaiiittttt....... a HALFLING! HAHAHAHAHA.

Really, Cryptic, you can do much better. I suspect those swords were created by the unpaid modeling intern who was working for college credits or something.

I like the GWF class... but I only run around in "Fashion" mode because that stupid sword just looks so... stupid.

jenisyde

I personally love my new GWF Halfling with a giant sword. While cartoony and outlandish, it's fitting for the class

fondlez

angrysprite wrote: »

I like the GWF class... but I only run around in "Fashion" mode because that stupid sword just looks so... stupid.

I am a Halfling, so I do the same, but only because almost all GWF weapons clip through the ground on a Halfling and therefore looks silly/distracting. Plus the combination gives a minor psychological and anti-targetting edge in PvP.

angrysprite

fondlez wrote: »

I am a Halfling, so I do the same, but only because almost all GWF weapons clip through the ground on a Halfling and therefore looks silly/distracting. Plus the combination gives a minor psychological and anti-targetting edge in PvP.

Yes, this is the primary problem (ground-clipping) - and where the "outlandish" word applies (as mentioned by @jeniside <-awesome name, BTW)

werealchemist

I don't understand what the deal with people complaining about sword size is, I imagine it's that most people don't know what to actually expect when it comes to the weight of a sword.

To put it into perspective We'll use a popular massive sword for comparison, Clouds Buster Sword, That "massive" chunk of metal weighs only 20 LBS. to put that into perspective

Here are some other things that weigh 20 LBS
• A car tire
• 2 gallons of Water
• a bag of dog food
• my cat
• A toddler

and as for size some of the largest real swords used in combat were during the Renaissance period
and they were called the Bidenhander (or Dopplehander) were 78 inches (198.1 cm) long. (that's 6 and a half feet long!)

TBH if you know swords these are actually believable sized swords.

As for scaling I don't believe that the size of the sword should change because a person is 4 inches shorter than the next. That just Isn't how things work, however they shouldn't be scaled to the largest possible characters. (exception being small races they should be 1 size category smaller than medium size races)

whitupiggu

werealchemist wrote: »

I don't understand what the deal with people complaining about sword size is, I imagine it's that most people don't know what to actually expect when it comes to the weight of a sword.

To put it into perspective We'll use a popular massive sword for comparison, Clouds Buster Sword, That "massive" chunk of metal weighs only 20 LBS. to put that into perspective

Here are some other things that weigh 20 LBS
• A car tire
• 2 gallons of Water
• a bag of dog food
• my cat
• A toddler

and as for size some of the largest real swords used in combat were during the Renaissance period
and they were called the Bidenhander (or Dopplehander) were 78 inches (198.1 cm) long. (that's 6 and a half feet long!)

TBH if you know swords these are actually believable sized swords.

As for scaling I don't believe that the size of the sword should change because a person is 4 inches shorter than the next. That just Isn't how things work, however they shouldn't be scaled to the largest possible characters. (exception being small races they should be 1 size category smaller than medium size races)

If you knew swords you'd know they are nowhere near the size of the swords ingame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mSB_IOEUg

xelliz

whitupiggu wrote: »

If you knew swords you'd know they are nowhere near the size of the swords ingame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mSB_IOEUg

Very nice post. While great swords are indeed large compared to their smaller brethren, they are nowhere near the size of items found in most games.

That being said...I think its pretty hilarious that my gf's petite human female is running around in a wedding dress, but has this insanely big axe.

whitupiggu

xelliz wrote: »

Very nice post. While great swords are indeed large compared to their smaller brethren, they are nowhere near the size of items found in most games.

That being said...I think its pretty hilarious that my gf's petite human female is running around in a wedding dress, but has this insanely big axe.

We should consider ourselves lucky that most of the armor isn't completely ridiculous in this game.

beckylunatic

The only thing that bugs me about it is the fact that the tip of the sword blade clips into the ground when at rest. I'm hoping for the Thayan Zealot drop for my female GWF, as it should actually be an upgrade over what she's got now, and I always liked how she looked better with an axe anyway (sans broken graphics).

As to whether or not weapons should have a greater degree of scaling to match the size of the wielder... maybe it doesn't make sense that the sword you got out of that dungeon is just your exact size (how do we explain the armour?), but I don't see why a smithed sword shouldn't be the exact right length.

Really, I just don't want to see this ridiculous ground-clipping.

thebriman

beckylunatic wrote: »

I'm hoping for the Thayan Zealot drop for my female GWF, as it should actually be an upgrade over what she's got now, and I always liked how she looked better with an axe anyway (sans broken graphics).

I just got this weapon over the weekend on my GWF, and it definitely doesn't clip the ground for me (my GWF is a half orc though). My one complaint, however, is that it clips with the skirt part of my Scale of the Dragonslayer. Looks great when I'm swinging it, but when I stand still the axe head partially disappears into my back side. Let's just say, it doesn't look comfortable.

mithrosnomore

werealchemist wrote: »

I don't understand what the deal with people complaining about sword size is, I imagine it's that most people don't know what to actually expect when it comes to the weight of a sword.

To put it into perspective We'll use a popular massive sword for comparison, Clouds Buster Sword, That "massive" chunk of metal weighs only 20 LBS. to put that into perspective

Here are some other things that weigh 20 LBS
• A car tire
• 2 gallons of Water
• a bag of dog food
• my cat
• A toddler

and as for size some of the largest real swords used in combat were during the Renaissance period
and they were called the Bidenhander (or Dopplehander) were 78 inches (198.1 cm) long. (that's 6 and a half feet long!)

TBH if you know swords these are actually believable sized swords.

As for scaling I don't believe that the size of the sword should change because a person is 4 inches shorter than the next. That just Isn't how things work, however they shouldn't be scaled to the largest possible characters. (exception being small races they should be 1 size category smaller than medium size races)

As already shown, you are way off-base with the notion that the game swords are realistic.

And while 20 pounds may not be a lot to lift or carry, it's an insane amount of weight to swing around as a weapon in a prolonged fight.

I do not have a big problem with some of these weapons being such an absurd size, but I would like to see a few more "realistic" options as well, for those that want them; A couple of swords, a couple more axe models, then at least one hammer and club to go along with the more fantastic skins.

==============

Seems like the game should be able to adjust weapons for character size.

But given the amount of clipping with weapons and characters and cloaks and armor, a little ground clipping doesn't seem like a deal-breaker to me.

I need to make another GWF.... I was just getting used to playing as one when the hunter ranger came out and I deleted the one that I had.

abell39

mithrosnomore wrote: »

I do not have a big problem with some of these weapons being such an absurd size, but I would like to see a few more "realistic" options as well, for those that want them; A couple of swords, a couple more axe models, then at least one hammer and club to go along with the more fantastic skins.

For that matter, there's a bunch of more "exotic" yet realistic polearms that would work pretty well with GWF attack animations -- the guan dao, glaive, naginata, and scythe/sickle, to name a few. I'd love to see any or all of those as options for a GWF; mine just doesn't rock the greatsword that well and would love a polearm instead. (Do we have scythes? I swear I've seen one but could be wrong.)

lobo0084

Personally, I'd prefer if the weapons scaled due to character race and sex, to be honest. So that haflings are weilding more of a ******* sword, and half-orcs weilding what we currently have.

Clipping weapons dragging through the ground is my biggest complaint. It's also why I refuse to make a dwarf or halfling GWF (unless I'm going to give them an axe far later).

werealchemist

mithrosnomore wrote: »

As already shown, you are way off-base with the notion that the game swords are realistic.

And while 20 pounds may not be a lot to lift or carry, it's an insane amount of weight to swing around as a weapon in a prolonged fight.

I do not have a big problem with some of these weapons being such an absurd size, but I would like to see a few more "realistic" options as well, for those that want them; A couple of swords, a couple more axe models, then at least one hammer and club to go along with the more fantastic skins.
.

I believe that My statements may have been misinterpreted, I never said they were realistic, I said they are believable as in "I believe that a sword like this could be made and still be functional"(in weight) I even used a fictional sword as a reference to convey this.

Let's be honest now If a (physically fit) person had trained with it long enough they could become adept at using it.
I mean sure for the first few months I'd be sore as hell after trying to swing one of those around but after a while I'd get stronger and be able to swing it better and use it more efficiently, sort of like... Oh yeah, LEVELING!
(and considering that's about all your character can do I'd expect them to be damned good at it by level 60 am i right?)

sirjesto

Anyways...... the weapons should scale by race and/or sex. Even if this isn't believable, at least it would help eliminate annoying, immersion breaking clipping.

snotty

this thread makes me laugh, you need the weapon to be believable even though its being use by unbelievable races. Sure, if you're playing as a human you might have room to argue but otherwise....

mithrosnomore

werealchemist wrote: »

I believe that My statements may have been misinterpreted, I never said they were realistic, I said they are believable as in "I believe that a sword like this could be made and still be functional"(in weight) I even used a fictional sword as a reference to convey this.

Let's be honest now If a (physically fit) person had trained with it long enough they could become adept at using it.
I mean sure for the first few months I'd be sore as hell after trying to swing one of those around but after a while I'd get stronger and be able to swing it better and use it more efficiently, sort of like... Oh yeah, LEVELING!
(and considering that's about all your character can do I'd expect them to be damned good at it by level 60 am i right?)

Fair enough, but I wouldn't bet on it. A person can only do so much. The people with the "normal" weapons would be able to fight better for longer, and that, to me, is the point.

I can not imagine that in the history of humankind if a mace or morningstar with a 20 pound head was an effective weapon that there wouldn't be hundreds of examples to be found; That if 20 pound swords and axes were effective weapons that they wouldn't be found all over Europe and Asia.

Maybe someone could use one, they just wouldn't be able to use it very well.

Again, though, I have no problem with the skins that are in the game. I would support more options, though, and think that more 'realistic' skins would be an effective choice.

snotty wrote: »

this thread makes me laugh, you need the weapon to be believable even though its being use by unbelievable races. Sure, if you're playing as a human you might have room to argue but otherwise....

I don't think that anyone is making that argument.

I think that there are people saying that the weapon skins in the game are not realistic, and I am in that group, but that is not a problem to me.

There are people that might want some more realistic skins for the weapons as options, and I am in that group as well. But that still isn't an outcry against 'unrealistic' weapon skins. It's just an appeal for more options.

The thread itself started out as a complaint about clipping issues.

So yeah... Not seeing the outrage against "unrealistic". That is just a minor side-discussion.

Realistic and unrealistic can peacefully coexist.

abell39 wrote: »

For that matter, there's a bunch of more "exotic" yet realistic polearms that would work pretty well with GWF attack animations -- the guan dao, glaive, naginata, and scythe/sickle, to name a few. I'd love to see any or all of those as options for a GWF; mine just doesn't rock the greatsword that well and would love a polearm instead. (Do we have scythes? I swear I've seen one but could be wrong.)

I'd be okay with that, too.

I just went with models that I know are out there now, and in time, as they release new classes, there will be the possibility of introducing new weapons that are animated to work with them.

Say, for example, they decide that the warlord class will be a polearm using class.

Not saying that I wouldn't welcome more weapons for this or that class, but limiting certain weapons to certain classes is an easy way to give different classes some distinctive appearance options.

ordensmarschall

The ground clipping issue for the twohanded swords I agree with, but not the scaling issue. In order to do the damage that the these large swords do(minus magical enhancements) they need to be large. If you scale down a twohanded sword for a halfling it would about the size of a longsword and should therefore do that amount of damage. Contemporary drawings and paintings from middle ages of German mercenaries(landknechten) show that many of them actually carried their doppelhander (twohanded) on their shoulders like a pole, and some strapped them to donkeys between fights. Very few are depicted wearing twohanded swords on their back.

xpu117

kap273 wrote: »

Just made a female GWF and so far the weapon scaling is silly to put it mildly. I understand they're supposed to wielding a massive two hander but the sword is just way too big for the character model. Does this get better later on in the game or just I just try to ignore it? Thanks!

At least female GWFs don't have the clipping issues the male version does... Our weapons glitch right through us while standing still.

sirjesto

ordensmarschall wrote: »

The ground clipping issue for the twohanded swords I agree with, but not the scaling issue. In order to do the damage that the these large swords do(minus magical enhancements) they need to be large. If you scale down a twohanded sword for a halfling it would about the size of a longsword and should therefore do that amount of damage. Contemporary drawings and paintings from middle ages of German mercenaries(landknechten) show that many of them actually carried their doppelhander (twohanded) on their shoulders like a pole, and some strapped them to donkeys between fights. Very few are depicted wearing twohanded swords on their back.

Because you couldn't.

werealchemist

mithrosnomore wrote: »

Fair enough, but I wouldn't bet on it. A person can only do so much. The people with the "normal" weapons would be able to fight better for longer, and that, to me, is the point.

I can not imagine that in the history of humankind if a mace or morningstar with a 20 pound head was an effective weapon that there wouldn't be hundreds of examples to be found; That if 20 pound swords and axes were effective weapons that they wouldn't be found all over Europe and Asia.

True, if everybody swung 20 pound swords they'd all look like these guys lol
<< youtube link removed >>

lobo0084

I think history has already proven that the great two-handed swords we've read about were much more conservative in reality than many thought. The average claymore was only about five pounds, and it was considered immense and unwieldy by all but the strongest warriors.

Modern anime has had more to do with the impression of sword size than anything else, really. Those into the more realistic recognize the absurdity of these weapons for what they are: high-fantasy with little basis in reality.

Which means that the options should be opened more from here. If we're stepping away from any tie with reality, than it's reasonable for a halfling to carry a seven foot sword, or for their modest four foot sword to do as much damage as the larger variants.

Giving the player the option, at the very least, to scale their weapon to fit would be a nice addition.

khimera906

My GWF is a tall, muscular Half-Orc who smashes people with a huge hammer. The Half-Orc seemed like the best choice for a GWF, but to be honest, I like the looks of the Human, Elf, Half-Elf, Dwarf and Tiefling GWFs a lot. On the other hand, the Halflings look kinda silly, and if I remember correctly in D&D Halflings can't even wield great weapons without talking special feats - they normally use two hands to wield long swords. If you reduce the size of the weapons too much, it couldn't even count as a great weapon. Maybe Halflings should have a restriction for the GWF class. Just a thought, please don't lynch me .