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Rethink the rationality of "Life Steal" being one of character stat
ianthewizard2012
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
(Note: While I am bringing up the question of the rationality of Life Steal being one of character stats, many of you may think why I do not also bring up the question of the rationality of killing mobs or taking loot. I am willing to discuss them in another thread if anyone has interests in them. But in this thread, let us focus on one thing, that is, Life Steal.)
Hi devs and all players,
Here I would like to call attention to this issue again. That the appropriateness and rationality of Life Steal being one of character stats need to be reevaluated.
Because we already had some discussion in the previous thread, I will not explain this issue in detail. And I really appreciate all forum members who tried to help me overcome this issue. Yet I don't know what the cause is exactly, but I still cannot simply rationalize it. The more I think about it, the more I find it is irrational.
All of us agree that other character stats were named perfectly unprejuced, and I believe nobody will say Life Steal is as well.
As its name suggests, Life Steal is apparently something vampiric, which is dark-ish. At least it is not positive.
I am not sure who decided to add this stat into the game. It might be Wizards of the Coast or our game designer. But I must say, that the decision is not a good one. I know that's harsh, but please try to accept the truth.
Assuming all players like to perform vampiric behaviors and then giving everyone a character stat which steals life is unbelievable and ridiculous in a role playing game. And I was under the impression that nobody even pointed out this obvious role playing issue.
Although role players who do not like to perform vampiric behaviors can choose to not using it, sometimes we are still forced to use it. For example, the Righteous Boon we get by invoking. And stealing life really should not be considered righteous.
And there are many equipments which are supposed to be good-aligned, provide Life Steal bonus. That caused role playing issue, too. For example, holy clerics' armors have this unholy stat; Eye of Lathander artifact, which is named after a good-aligned god Lathander, has this ungood stat.
With more and more equipments and boons which might have this stat being introduced in the future, role players who do not want to perform vampiric behaviors will have less choices compare to other players.
So my suggestions for this issue are still the same:
For introducing a same-effect and opposite-concept counterpart stat, we can have a new stat called "Holy Cure", "Divine Cure", "Divine Vitality" (yeah, borrowed from somewhere else), or similar names. Its concept can be describe as something like this: By fighting foes, your deity award your braveness. Every time you hit your foes, your deity replenish some of your hit points. With this counterpart stat being introduced, things become fair. Alternatively, it can just replace Life Steal. Since everyone in the game has a deity, why not just let our deities heal us?
This is the first time I reiterate this issue, and is probably also the last time. I really hope it can get more attention and be solved appropriately.
If this issue is solved, personally I will be happily to see this game does care about players' feelings and make a great advancement toward an excellent D&D role playing game; if it decides to let this issue remain, okay, I will try to find a solution for myself but will be disappointed that it does not want to better itself.
Thanks all for reading.
Sincerely,
A role player
Hi devs and all players,
Here I would like to call attention to this issue again. That the appropriateness and rationality of Life Steal being one of character stats need to be reevaluated.
Because we already had some discussion in the previous thread, I will not explain this issue in detail. And I really appreciate all forum members who tried to help me overcome this issue. Yet I don't know what the cause is exactly, but I still cannot simply rationalize it. The more I think about it, the more I find it is irrational.
All of us agree that other character stats were named perfectly unprejuced, and I believe nobody will say Life Steal is as well.
As its name suggests, Life Steal is apparently something vampiric, which is dark-ish. At least it is not positive.
I am not sure who decided to add this stat into the game. It might be Wizards of the Coast or our game designer. But I must say, that the decision is not a good one. I know that's harsh, but please try to accept the truth.
Assuming all players like to perform vampiric behaviors and then giving everyone a character stat which steals life is unbelievable and ridiculous in a role playing game. And I was under the impression that nobody even pointed out this obvious role playing issue.
Although role players who do not like to perform vampiric behaviors can choose to not using it, sometimes we are still forced to use it. For example, the Righteous Boon we get by invoking. And stealing life really should not be considered righteous.
And there are many equipments which are supposed to be good-aligned, provide Life Steal bonus. That caused role playing issue, too. For example, holy clerics' armors have this unholy stat; Eye of Lathander artifact, which is named after a good-aligned god Lathander, has this ungood stat.
With more and more equipments and boons which might have this stat being introduced in the future, role players who do not want to perform vampiric behaviors will have less choices compare to other players.
So my suggestions for this issue are still the same:
- Rename this stat. or
- Introduce a good-ish counterpart stat which has the same effect but opposite concept, for the sake of being fair.
For introducing a same-effect and opposite-concept counterpart stat, we can have a new stat called "Holy Cure", "Divine Cure", "Divine Vitality" (yeah, borrowed from somewhere else), or similar names. Its concept can be describe as something like this: By fighting foes, your deity award your braveness. Every time you hit your foes, your deity replenish some of your hit points. With this counterpart stat being introduced, things become fair. Alternatively, it can just replace Life Steal. Since everyone in the game has a deity, why not just let our deities heal us?
This is the first time I reiterate this issue, and is probably also the last time. I really hope it can get more attention and be solved appropriately.
If this issue is solved, personally I will be happily to see this game does care about players' feelings and make a great advancement toward an excellent D&D role playing game; if it decides to let this issue remain, okay, I will try to find a solution for myself but will be disappointed that it does not want to better itself.
Thanks all for reading.
Sincerely,
A role player
Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
1
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
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They could call it a lot of things, but life steal is what it does; It converts some amount of the damage that your character deals into a heal effect for your character.
You steal some of their life and take it for your own.
They could call it 'battle heal', maybe, but it would do the exact same thing, so does it matter?
Did you ever play PnP D&D? Did you never come across a weapon with life stealing properties? If so, did anyone that used such a weapon suddenly become a vampire?
Elric was certainly not a vampire. Not in any classic sense, anyway, and once you move beyond the classic vampire, the argument doesn't matter anymore.
This is all attached to gear. Nowhere does your character just get to drain life. You don't go around biting people in the neck.
If it is such an issue for you then do not slot any life stealing gear.
I would also advise against inspecting anyone.
Wow, nothing like holding Cryptic to a totally unfair standard.
They have proven time and time again, they do listen to the player base. They have, in many cases, changed or altered plans that the community has been unhappy with. However, one singular poster is not a community. There has been no one else rallying for these changes you keep proposing. You have been alone in this.
So to even imply they have no desire to better their game, simply because they wont listen to one single poster is both unfair and unreasonable.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?430621-Make-controversial-quests-optional
Curious attempt to continue the flogging of a deceased equine.. I see a bit of a pattern forming, oh Tim the Enchanter
This is also how (false) power and actual irrationality quickly spreads (oh the irony, given the OP's post).
Oh, wow... That's even worse than this thread.
Where do some people get there ego. I like RP as much as the next person, but this is borderline obsession.
I must deeply protest this particular protest! I play a rogue for a reason, if it was possible I would steal time from them as well! If you take yet another way for me to rob people other than killing them to make them pop gold into the air I will be most distressed! Please do not follow the pretentious words of the leading protester here! I am a rogue. I steal your life.
Thank you.
As a role player, enjoy role-playing. But since you're not role-playing Ao, his boss, or even his underlings the various gods of Faerun, you're not able to wholly reshape reality to suit your needs. If you don't like the stat, don't use it and I fully support your refusal to use any and all gear that has life stealing/vampirism/health redistribution/life socialism/devouring-enemy's-health-for-own-benefit/forced empathic touch (choose your own flavor) on it. I also appreciate how you recognize that you're not being rational about this, since clearly Lathandar (by which you really mean Amauntor) is perfectly fine with you committing mass murder of other sentient beings (because clearly they're evil) and taking their stuff but you're going to draw the line at using their life force.
So as a role-player, I will suggest that you either a) find a way to role-play this into rationality and live with it or b) simply never use anything with life steal on it. Either way, it's your call and will only affect you.
Ian's problem is that if it says "steal" on his screen, he refuses to imagine it says something more to his liking while keeping the same effect. No problem imagining that you have an alignment, which it doesn't say on your screen, and which the ruleset we're using doesn't really have, I believe I've read.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
And now as we touched RP concept - pfff! The word "good-ish"! Why don't they add something that is Evil in Neverwinter?
Really, I am **** "tired of being a hero". I've never been evil character in DnD universy but I wasn't good one either!
Have seen so many people complaining about only good deities being available also...
WTB Class Reroll please
Try the Foundry module "Tired Of Being the Hero."
There are more RP problems that are really important. Like for example that I have to use a cross-shaped symbol as a DC in battle and can't use a hammer and a shield. That's the real outrageous problem!
I can see why they stayed away from alignment now. Although it would be neat to have alignment bonus stats or features, it would be touchy to deal with and players might start screaming alignment unbalance like they do with classes. IMO if a class or feature is what you feel overpowered then roll that class and use it,everyone has the same option to use classes that are overpowered... it is just the people that are stuck using only class well that complain anyways. Although making this feature with alignment bonuses would be a good way to make Zen purchases happen for "alignment respec"
A good player can use all classes and can adapt for the purpose of understanding said classes and how they work....to go off topic for a bit.
But if you were to change the words to fit the same meaning what would you call it to make it sound nice for people that are Lawful good?
Taken from George Carlin:
"...crippled people are crippled, they're not differently-abled. If you insist on using tortured language like differently-abled, then you must include all of us. We're all differently-abled. I can pick my nose with my thumb and I can switch hands while masturbating and gain a stroke. We're all differently-abled. Crippled people are simply crippled. It's a perfectly honorable word. There's no shame in it."
Life drinking is simply that: STEALING LIFE FROM YOUR ENEMY.
Deal with it.
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I for one find the whole stance a bit silly. I'm a grown man (40) and do not find it any different than the leech life, vampiric drain, etc from years of play MMOs and even FPSes. It's a term to describe an action, not an association with good or evil.
I hope Cryptic completely ignores you. For this goes down the path of "over-rating", where real life morality starts interfering with harmless fantasy... all of which this game is based around good characters.. Simply choose not to play something you can't get behind. I do not share your views as I'm sure many don't. Please stop trying to make us cult to your mind-set when you have the option of not playing.
Lawful good people would not get "life steal" they would get "sleep drain" or "heal enemy" (because they are so nice)
I do have to say with DnD, alot of it had to do with the alignment system when I played it pencil and paper style... If I remember that far back...lol. I don't see it here in this online version of DnD though.
I think they are missing out of some fun content that may keep people in the game more and push towards more of a role-play type of feel. Dunno...but would be neat to see.
i think you must have not understood my post because we are in agreement.
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To the OP: I am sorry that your requested change is (extremely) unlikely to be instituted. However, you must admit that you appear to be in the extreme minority on this issue. (possibly the only one, as a matter of fact) As it stands, I am afraid that you have only 2 options: One, find a suitable role-play reason/rational to explain away your "life steal" stat, or two, leave the game entirely.
I am not trying to be rude, just attempting to place your choices in stark relief. I hope that you do not choose to leave the game over something that is considered a non-issue by the majority of the player base, but if you do leave because of it I will admit that you are a person that stands by his principles honestly, and to a greater degree than most.
Good luck in whichever path you choose.