I have no desire to meet Drizzt, as he is a Gary Stu if I ever saw one.
Name one major fantasy figure from Elric to Pen Ohmsford that isn't....seriously Mary Sue/Gary stu has become the rallying cry of the hipster. You can place that label on any character in modern fantasy who is on the classic hero's journey, as if the so called "Anti-Heroes" of today's literature are any different.
Really the only way you don't drift into the sea of Mary Sue is for your character to be thoroughly tortured then fail, by nature high fantasy is full of larger than life characters doing impossible things, it shares many of the same characteristics as silver and golden age comics and there is a reason things like that are so popular, yeah they may not be your cup of tea...but yelling Mary Sue is sorta like my Grandfather wandering in my local comic shop and telling people why the Hulk is impossible.
Where exactly is the heroic legendary Drow elf ranger Drizzt Do'Urden the NPC located at in this Neverwinter MMORPG and does it take a very long time to locate him in the game???
Log in on the 5th of December I'm sure you won't be able to get away from him.
Name one major fantasy figure from Elric to Pen Ohmsford that isn't....seriously Mary Sue/Gary stu has become the rallying cry of the hipster. You can place that label on any character in modern fantasy who is on the classic hero's journey, as if the so called "Anti-Heroes" of today's literature are any different.
Really the only way you don't drift into the sea of Mary Sue is for your character to be thoroughly tortured then fail, by nature high fantasy is full of larger than life characters doing impossible things, it shares many of the same characteristics as silver and golden age comics and there is a reason things like that are so popular, yeah they may not be your cup of tea...but yelling Mary Sue is sorta like my Grandfather wandering in my local comic shop and telling people why the Hulk is impossible.
There are quite a few characters that aren't. A character with no outward flaws, outside of his "troubled past" in Drizzt's case he is a Drow therefor he pretty much breaks the meter on troubled past, and being unequalled without potential for failure or you know maybe being average at something, creates a quite bland and uninteresting character. And heroes don't always need to win the day either. And it's often funny when people point out the simple fact the apologists come out of the woodwork to decry it a hipster cry or something.
There are quite a few characters that aren't. A character with no outward flaws, outside of his "troubled past" in Drizzt's case he is a Drow therefor he pretty much breaks the meter on troubled past, and being unequalled without potential for failure or you know maybe being average at something, creates a quite bland and uninteresting character. And heroes don't always need to win the day either. And it's often funny when people point out the simple fact the apologists come out of the woodwork to decry it a hipster cry or something.
Name five...I assure you that an argument can be made for their Mary Sueness, and honestly if you keep up with the Drizzit novels he doesn't always win the day, he has endured through loss that is different whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, while he hasn't suffered the ultimate loss (that of his life) he has pretty much been the whipping boy of Salvatore for 27 years (being well renown and able to kick *** in a fight does not make a good life especially when everyone you love leaves or dies) Also pointing out that calling a fantastical creation Mary sue is superfluous and more than a little silly is hardly being an apologist.
Name five...I assure you that an argument can be made for their Mary Sueness, and honestly if you keep up with the Drizzit novels he doesn't always win the day, he has endured through loss that is different whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, while he hasn't suffered the ultimate loss (that of his life) he has pretty much been the whipping boy of Salvatore for 27 years (being well renown and able to kick *** in a fight does not make a good life especially when everyone you love leaves or dies) Also pointing out that calling a fantastical creation Mary sue is superfluous and more than a little silly is hardly being an apologist.
You are spot on Storm. I am 38 years old and as many others started out with streams of silver when i was in high school because i thought the cover was cool! But those of us who have read ALL the novels over the past 20 years understand what Drizzt has been threw and grown threw. Most of the DRizzt haters just don't like anything that garners so much attention. That makes them feel like there going against the tide and its cool to be different, so they mock what they do not understand I guess?
You are spot on Storm. I am 38 years old and as many others started out with streams of silver when i was in high school because i thought the cover was cool! But those of us who have read ALL the novels over the past 20 years understand what Drizzt has been threw and grown threw. Most of the DRizzt haters just don't like anything that garners so much attention. That makes them feel like there going against the tide and its cool to be different, so they mock what they do not understand I guess?
I wouldn't call myself a "Drizzt' hater" but what you said is kinda close though not quite on he head of the nail.
I've been hearing about the guy NON-STOP for so long that I don't like him on principal of "This **** is getting old".
It's like listening to the same song over and over for days/weeks/months straight. how long before you start to hate that song?
or when you have that friend that did this cool thing this one time and they just keep repeating it over and over and you just want to slap them and be like "SHUT UP!".
I wouldn't call myself a "Drizzt' hater" but what you said is kinda close though not quite on he head of the nail.
I've been hearing about the guy NON-STOP for so long that I don't like him on principal of "This **** is getting old".
It's like listening to the same song over and over for days/weeks/months straight. how long before you start to hate that song?
or when you have that friend that did this cool thing this one time and they just keep repeating it over and over and you just want to slap them and be like "SHUT UP!".
I get what your'e saying honestly but with that premise every single Fantasy character needs to Shut the hell up and go away, how many years have we been hearing about Superman , or Luke blowing up the Deathstar, or that know it all Brit in the Deerstalker hat? It's kinda human nature to keep harping on these things because we more or less have seven to ten original stories and everything else is a variation on that, humanity for good or bad is compelled to keep telling these stories and you really can't pick and choose if you shut up one you need to shut up the rest.
one of the things I have found interesting especially when I played WoW was most of the hate surrounding so called "Mary Sues" was after you did a bit of digging was basically those characters were more powerful than the complainers player character...I found that fascinating, and am sure there is a doctoral thesis that could be written on the deep seated insecurities and narcissism that evokes such feelings and I'm quite sure that it is a product of the twenty first century.
Anywho I think that Cryptic was smart in not placing major Realms characters in if for no other reason than a lot of people who play have an atavistic need for their character to be the end all be all...if they do introduce such characters going forward, they should do it sparingly.
You are spot on Storm. I am 38 years old and as many others started out with streams of silver when i was in high school because i thought the cover was cool! But those of us who have read ALL the novels over the past 20 years understand what Drizzt has been threw and grown threw. Most of the DRizzt haters just don't like anything that garners so much attention. That makes them feel like there going against the tide and its cool to be different, so they mock what they do not understand I guess?
You seem to be under some fallacy that I haven't read anything, or haven't seen him for the past 20 years. But considering the Drow were originally created as the ultimate big breasted, dark skinned, lithe race of overpowered, godly dream women any man could hope for, excuse me while I sit there and just chuckle at how much bias people have towards their favorite character and how far they will go to defend them. It's the same case with any genre, Star Wars, Star Trek, or even My Little Pony; personal bias always gets in the way. I certainly don't care about the attention he gets, but let's face fact and point out the obvious face side of the coin; Drizzt lovers can't stand the idea that someone out there doesn't like the character, because again personal bias. And trying to say mocking what people don't understand is the shallowest attempt at wit I've ever seen, it doesn't take much to understand.
I get what your'e saying honestly but with that premise every single Fantasy character needs to Shut the hell up and go away, how many years have we been hearing about Superman , or Luke blowing up the Deathstar, or that know it all Brit in the Deerstalker hat? It's kinda human nature to keep harping on these things because we more or less have seven to ten original stories and everything else is a variation on that, humanity for good or bad is compelled to keep telling these stories and you really can't pick and choose if you shut up one you need to shut up the rest.
Well if you use that example from my last post Superman and Luke skywalker are the songs i hear occasionally on the radio, but
according to your logic if we don't like one song we should ban all music. All music has notes right?
I get what you are saying but my friends and I are D&D nerds, not comic book nerds & not Star Wars nerd, heck I don't even know what Brit in a Deerstalker hat you're talking about... the reason I point his out is because I'm talking about the reason I don't care for Drizzt'.
You seem to be under some fallacy that I haven't read anything, or haven't seen him for the past 20 years. But considering the Drow were originally created as the ultimate big breasted, dark skinned, lithe race of overpowered, godly dream women any man could hope for
/Boggel Not really sure where you are getting this nonsense from. From my first Monster Manual (1st edition) This is what it says about Drow:
The 'Black Elves,' or drow, are only legend." No statistics are given for the drow in this book, apart from the statistics for normal elves, and only a single paragraph is written about them. The drow are described here as purportedly dwelling deep beneath the surface world, in strange subterranean realms. They are said to be evil, "as dark as faeries are bright", and pictured in tales as poor fighters but strong magic-users.
Not seeing any mention of the proportion of their mammary glads or that they are overpowered, unless you considering any race who is adapt at magic being overpowered. Point of fact Drow females at least in D&D are rarely portrayed as godly dream women unless you dream about being tortured by some Machiavellian HAMSTER.
If you are speaking of the Scandinavian legends of the Trow (Pronounced "Dro" ) Those are hairy Troll like folk, which really doesn't have one whit to do with the matriarchal Drow of D&D.
excuse me while I sit there and just chuckle at how much bias people have towards their favorite character and how far they will go to defend them.
Actually what I find just as amusing is how people will try to defend their position with hyperbole, I'm not here to defend or critique anything, I'm just pointing out that Mary Sue calling has become a bit trite and predictable among the hip and trendy.
It's the same case with any genre, Star Wars, Star Trek, or even My Little Pony; personal bias always gets in the way. I certainly don't care about the attention he gets, but let's face fact and point out the obvious face side of the coin; Drizzt lovers can't stand the idea that someone out there doesn't like the character, because again personal bias. And trying to say mocking what people don't understand is the shallowest attempt at wit I've ever seen, it doesn't take much to understand.
So you basically don't care for fandom, I can respect that, but fandom isn't a character flaw, or even a bad thing, it's what some people are into is all and sitting back chuckling about it like your'e all superior especially on a MMO site might be perceived as toolish.
You seem to be under some fallacy that I haven't read anything, or haven't seen him for the past 20 years. But considering the Drow were originally created as the ultimate big breasted, dark skinned, lithe race of overpowered, godly dream women any man could hope for, excuse me while I sit there and just chuckle at how much bias people have towards their favorite character and how far they will go to defend them.
. . . . . . Drow were not created as such. Not sure what you're reading but you're totally off-base on the origins of the Drow in the Forgotten Realms. Most drow females were not very beautiful by human standards. Take a look back at the earliest depictions of them, seriously. Perhaps you're confusing them with anime dark elves? Drow females were a terror to behold, not because of their looks, but because of their ambition, cruel and twisted nature.
. . . . . . Sure, there were or are some who are quite the beauty to behold, like Qilue Veladorn, but the truth is that "gorgeous" drow females were rare and were usually ones with blue or green eyes, meaning they had traces of surface elven blood in them and were either slain at birth or fled the Underdark. These usually found their way to worshiping the now-deceased goddess Eilistrasee, the daughter of Corellon Larethian, who was a very beautiful drow goddess of good drow.
. . . . . . The fact of the matter is that the Forgotten Realms drow are cursed dark elves, driven underground when the Goddess of All Elves, Araushnee, betrayed her consort, the God of All Elves, Corellon Larethian. She was twisted into a half-spider/half-drow demon-like being and thrown in the Abyss and became Lolth. Dark Elves do exist now once again in the Realms however, as the drow still faithful to Eilistrasee at the time of her death, had their curse lifted from them by Corellon in a moment known as "Eilistrasee's Sacrifice," while the rest remain cursed.
If memory serves, they were often portrayed as being fairly sexual in nature, at least in the older modules...
Often had kind of a "Dragonlady" sort of stereotype attached to them.
. . . . . It was the leaders (matrons) or priestesses who were sometimes (not often) portrayed in such a fashion, general populace however - no. Some of the earliest house matrons were not a sight for sore eyes. It is human nature to make powerful women more beautiful however, which will undoubtedly skew the outlook on such things.
The FR wiki places the Shadow war and activation of the dread ring circa 1480. This seems accurate as the nasher uprising an protectors law had occurred by 1478. I think its safe to assume that we will not see Drizzt any time soon based off of this, as it is not yet in game timeline the year of awakening.
<Unnecessary slander removed. please keep things respectful.>
as it is not yet in game timeline the year of awakening.
Numerous guild members of mine claimed to receive the "Witness to Mask" achievement during the Masquerade. This occurred when the avatar of Mask, which looked similar to the Masquerade Lore Master appeared instead of a monster but only remained for a short period of time (a matter of a few seconds)
This would place the timeline at 1484, The Year of Awakened Sleepers, or later.
Comments
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Name one major fantasy figure from Elric to Pen Ohmsford that isn't....seriously Mary Sue/Gary stu has become the rallying cry of the hipster. You can place that label on any character in modern fantasy who is on the classic hero's journey, as if the so called "Anti-Heroes" of today's literature are any different.
Really the only way you don't drift into the sea of Mary Sue is for your character to be thoroughly tortured then fail, by nature high fantasy is full of larger than life characters doing impossible things, it shares many of the same characteristics as silver and golden age comics and there is a reason things like that are so popular, yeah they may not be your cup of tea...but yelling Mary Sue is sorta like my Grandfather wandering in my local comic shop and telling people why the Hulk is impossible.
Log in on the 5th of December I'm sure you won't be able to get away from him.
There are quite a few characters that aren't. A character with no outward flaws, outside of his "troubled past" in Drizzt's case he is a Drow therefor he pretty much breaks the meter on troubled past, and being unequalled without potential for failure or you know maybe being average at something, creates a quite bland and uninteresting character. And heroes don't always need to win the day either. And it's often funny when people point out the simple fact the apologists come out of the woodwork to decry it a hipster cry or something.
Name five...I assure you that an argument can be made for their Mary Sueness, and honestly if you keep up with the Drizzit novels he doesn't always win the day, he has endured through loss that is different whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, while he hasn't suffered the ultimate loss (that of his life) he has pretty much been the whipping boy of Salvatore for 27 years (being well renown and able to kick *** in a fight does not make a good life especially when everyone you love leaves or dies) Also pointing out that calling a fantastical creation Mary sue is superfluous and more than a little silly is hardly being an apologist.
You are spot on Storm. I am 38 years old and as many others started out with streams of silver when i was in high school because i thought the cover was cool! But those of us who have read ALL the novels over the past 20 years understand what Drizzt has been threw and grown threw. Most of the DRizzt haters just don't like anything that garners so much attention. That makes them feel like there going against the tide and its cool to be different, so they mock what they do not understand I guess?
Loved that about Baldur's Gate. Kill Drizzt? Hells Yes!
I wouldn't call myself a "Drizzt' hater" but what you said is kinda close though not quite on he head of the nail.
I've been hearing about the guy NON-STOP for so long that I don't like him on principal of "This **** is getting old".
It's like listening to the same song over and over for days/weeks/months straight. how long before you start to hate that song?
or when you have that friend that did this cool thing this one time and they just keep repeating it over and over and you just want to slap them and be like "SHUT UP!".
I get what your'e saying honestly but with that premise every single Fantasy character needs to Shut the hell up and go away, how many years have we been hearing about Superman , or Luke blowing up the Deathstar, or that know it all Brit in the Deerstalker hat? It's kinda human nature to keep harping on these things because we more or less have seven to ten original stories and everything else is a variation on that, humanity for good or bad is compelled to keep telling these stories and you really can't pick and choose if you shut up one you need to shut up the rest.
one of the things I have found interesting especially when I played WoW was most of the hate surrounding so called "Mary Sues" was after you did a bit of digging was basically those characters were more powerful than the complainers player character...I found that fascinating, and am sure there is a doctoral thesis that could be written on the deep seated insecurities and narcissism that evokes such feelings and I'm quite sure that it is a product of the twenty first century.
Anywho I think that Cryptic was smart in not placing major Realms characters in if for no other reason than a lot of people who play have an atavistic need for their character to be the end all be all...if they do introduce such characters going forward, they should do it sparingly.
You seem to be under some fallacy that I haven't read anything, or haven't seen him for the past 20 years. But considering the Drow were originally created as the ultimate big breasted, dark skinned, lithe race of overpowered, godly dream women any man could hope for, excuse me while I sit there and just chuckle at how much bias people have towards their favorite character and how far they will go to defend them. It's the same case with any genre, Star Wars, Star Trek, or even My Little Pony; personal bias always gets in the way. I certainly don't care about the attention he gets, but let's face fact and point out the obvious face side of the coin; Drizzt lovers can't stand the idea that someone out there doesn't like the character, because again personal bias. And trying to say mocking what people don't understand is the shallowest attempt at wit I've ever seen, it doesn't take much to understand.
Well if you use that example from my last post Superman and Luke skywalker are the songs i hear occasionally on the radio, but
according to your logic if we don't like one song we should ban all music. All music has notes right?
I get what you are saying but my friends and I are D&D nerds, not comic book nerds & not Star Wars nerd, heck I don't even know what Brit in a Deerstalker hat you're talking about... the reason I point his out is because I'm talking about the reason I don't care for Drizzt'.
/Boggel Not really sure where you are getting this nonsense from. From my first Monster Manual (1st edition) This is what it says about Drow:
The 'Black Elves,' or drow, are only legend." No statistics are given for the drow in this book, apart from the statistics for normal elves, and only a single paragraph is written about them. The drow are described here as purportedly dwelling deep beneath the surface world, in strange subterranean realms. They are said to be evil, "as dark as faeries are bright", and pictured in tales as poor fighters but strong magic-users.
Not seeing any mention of the proportion of their mammary glads or that they are overpowered, unless you considering any race who is adapt at magic being overpowered. Point of fact Drow females at least in D&D are rarely portrayed as godly dream women unless you dream about being tortured by some Machiavellian HAMSTER.
If you are speaking of the Scandinavian legends of the Trow (Pronounced "Dro" ) Those are hairy Troll like folk, which really doesn't have one whit to do with the matriarchal Drow of D&D.
Actually what I find just as amusing is how people will try to defend their position with hyperbole, I'm not here to defend or critique anything, I'm just pointing out that Mary Sue calling has become a bit trite and predictable among the hip and trendy.
So you basically don't care for fandom, I can respect that, but fandom isn't a character flaw, or even a bad thing, it's what some people are into is all and sitting back chuckling about it like your'e all superior especially on a MMO site might be perceived as toolish.
I would assume Sherlock Holmes.
. . . . . . Sure, there were or are some who are quite the beauty to behold, like Qilue Veladorn, but the truth is that "gorgeous" drow females were rare and were usually ones with blue or green eyes, meaning they had traces of surface elven blood in them and were either slain at birth or fled the Underdark. These usually found their way to worshiping the now-deceased goddess Eilistrasee, the daughter of Corellon Larethian, who was a very beautiful drow goddess of good drow.
. . . . . . The fact of the matter is that the Forgotten Realms drow are cursed dark elves, driven underground when the Goddess of All Elves, Araushnee, betrayed her consort, the God of All Elves, Corellon Larethian. She was twisted into a half-spider/half-drow demon-like being and thrown in the Abyss and became Lolth. Dark Elves do exist now once again in the Realms however, as the drow still faithful to Eilistrasee at the time of her death, had their curse lifted from them by Corellon in a moment known as "Eilistrasee's Sacrifice," while the rest remain cursed.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Often had kind of a "Dragonlady" sort of stereotype attached to them.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
<Unnecessary slander removed. please keep things respectful.>
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Numerous guild members of mine claimed to receive the "Witness to Mask" achievement during the Masquerade. This occurred when the avatar of Mask, which looked similar to the Masquerade Lore Master appeared instead of a monster but only remained for a short period of time (a matter of a few seconds)
This would place the timeline at 1484, The Year of Awakened Sleepers, or later.