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Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Great Weapon Fighter Iron Vanguard Paragon Path

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  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    zacazu wrote: »
    Just to recap, because I'm really worried about the future of the class.

    Beta : had low damage , but good resistance , boundlessness of target speed ( WMS ) and overproduction of ap / slam .

    Module 1 : only left us the strength and speed ( WMS ) , taking in , depending on the build , more than 100 % of the damage output in pve . Nothing was given to us in return.

    Module 2 : are giving good damage related to critical ( and a defensive debuff ) , on the other hand, took the cancellation / wms . In this sense we only have good resistance and good critical damage . A unique feature just left the class , and it was added a new one.

    The current problem is that the class was not designed to have large critical chance , and how it is slow now , the critical mass will be lower . It is extremely important to create ways to exponentially increase the critical chance of the class - at least in pve - otherwise it will become unplayable.

    I'm currently having " lucky " with my critics in the preview . Please do with this " luck " is measured in build .

    A bugfix is not a nerf. A GWF have enough way to gain crit chance. Crit on gear, Crit feat, Crit stat and a crit class feature.
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    yeah crtic chance is easy to stack on gwf i have 47% full stacked with class future,btw i also never seen reason to nerf slam as they did ;/ it had only 5 targets cap and cws the most op daily in game is still not nerfed and have 15 targets
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    warpet wrote: »
    yeah crtic chance is easy to stack on gwf i have 47% full stacked with class future,btw i also never seen reason to nerf slam as they did ;/ it had only 5 targets cap and cws the most op daily in game is still not nerfed and have 15 targets

    Slam has to much utility for bigger damage. Second it has recent good damage.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    the line destroyer not give any increase in critical chance . she is totally focused on contdown / daily .

    let's look at the feats : recovery give armor pen , decrease 25 % of the time contdow 3 encounters ( 2 ancient builders of ap) . to slam the best daily beta , offered 25 % power / reduced countdow after using Advance Savage .


    +10 % damage in the encounter when unstoppable , +10 % damage in the encounter with wms , etc , etc , etc ... just look . nothing about critical chance . all about fast encounter / ap build/daily / recovery .

    now she will only serve to improve the other paths . will not be herself . nor is self sustainable .

    Now that the destroyer is slower , it will take less time to build wm . and the class provides wms / reaping strike , slow atwills . instigator provides wiked strike ( whose speed is good with cancellation) and chance for critical gains combat advantage . the sentinel envisioned +5 % critical chance with sure strike (the fastest currently Atwill ) and provides special bonus for wm (critical feat (based on single target stacks).

    just the facts .
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ladysylvia wrote: »
    Slam has to much utility for bigger damage. Second it has recent good damage.

    and cws sing dose not have to much utily? as for other dailys they are mostly useless in pve i lose more dps then i gain if i use them so slam is still only good daily since have instant cast why gwf cant have fast cast times on daily skill like other classes?
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    warpet wrote: »
    and cws sing dose not have to much utily? as for other dailys they are mostly useless in pve i lose more dps then i gain if i use them so slam is still only good daily since have instant cast why gwf cant have fast cast times on daily skill like other classes?

    What? GWF can't be interrupted for most casting daily. Only spinning strike and maybe AoS is interruptible. Crescendo, Slam and Savage aren't.
    AS don't reduce attackers damage. The slow isn't a real slow due how it work. Slam is a ranged daily, that is for a fighter class extrem without any lock on doing anything!
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ladysylvia wrote: »
    What? GWF can't be interrupted for most casting daily. Only spinning strike and maybe AoS is interruptible. Crescendo, Slam and Savage aren't.
    AS don't reduce attackers damage. The slow isn't a real slow due how it work. Slam is a ranged daily, that is for a fighter class extrem without any lock on doing anything!

    still they do less damage then what would at wills or encounters do in the same time gwf have the worst daily powers in game and the longest cast time on them
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    warpet wrote: »
    still they do less damage then what would at wills or encounters do in the same time gwf have the worst daily powers in game and the longest cast time on them

    Try to launch VM/Terrifying Impact on GF with pushing mobs arround you. Then try it with Crescendo/Slam/Savage. You seem to not have a clue that the GWF has the fastest useable Daily in comparison to other classes.
    And do less damage than At-will? Lol. Encounters? If you compare single Encounter not to the whole damage possibility of the AoE Dailies, then yes have fail comparison and win for the single Encounter. Come again if you have facts, and not a pseudo feeling that something is weak.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Proved my point about the destroyer - i guess - let the great irony :

    When everyone was complaining that they had fallen from first to third place in paingiver and " mysteriously " could no longer use the Dailys , what I did ? I concluded I did not want to depend on daily to do damage , and needed to find another way of " back to top " .

    Despite not having high critical chance , I kept destroyer solely because of the " executioner style" that gave +25 % damage single target with reaping strike . Facing the possibility , sacrificed defense / recovery , increased my critical chance , put a vorpal and I started using this Atwill . Wm was building rapidly with wms and had a "complete Atwill " ; major damage aoe / single possible . Dailys used for aesthetics.

    Now what they did? Improved the overall damage Atwill for everyone, and changed the executioner style by , guess what , ANOTHER AP CONSTRUCTOR.

    Does it make sense ? Certainly not .

    I was amazed to see the changes that the critical rate in the preview is upregulated in relation to live . It's that simple my indignation .

    ps:when I told the class, the context of "ps", I meant the destroyer.

    not have any sympathy for sentinel because most class players - explain my reasons would lead to fights - and simply do not understand the instigator.
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ladysylvia wrote: »
    Try to launch VM/Terrifying Impact on GF with pushing mobs arround you. Then try it with Crescendo/Slam/Savage. You seem to not have a clue that the GWF has the fastest useable Daily in comparison to other classes.
    And do less damage than At-will? Lol. Encounters? If you compare single Encounter not to the whole damage possibility of the AoE Dailies, then yes have fail comparison and win for the single Encounter. Come again if you have facts, and not a pseudo feeling that something is weak.

    btw cresendo get interupted in pve all time so dose spining strike ,Avalanche of Steel have over 4 sec cast and dose 4k damage,savage dose only 5k this makes our dailys totaly useless in pve only good daily is slam and it dose 400 dps.
    wicked or weapon master strike will do more aoe damage in the same time then spining or Avalanche of Steel u do not need to be genius to do the math
  • cyanbluestone007cyanbluestone007 Member Posts: 104 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    ladysylvia wrote: »
    Try to launch VM/Terrifying Impact on GF with pushing mobs arround you. Then try it with Crescendo/Slam/Savage. You seem to not have a clue that the GWF has the fastest useable Daily in comparison to other classes.
    And do less damage than At-will? Lol. Encounters? If you compare single Encounter not to the whole damage possibility of the AoE Dailies, then yes have fail comparison and win for the single Encounter. Come again if you have facts, and not a pseudo feeling that something is weak.

    Wow you really know nothing about GWF if you think the GWF's dailies do more damage than there At-wills. Spinning strike started out as absolutely horrible daily that rooted you into a spin for far too long doing pitiful damage. The buff this move got only put the damage done on par with your at will spam. Menaing using this is jsut a waste of action points. Avalanche of steel is by far the worst offender of GWF dailies. It is weaker than the CW encounter Shard of Endless Avalanche in every way. Damage, speed and the CW version does not stop the CW from using other moves before the move is discharged. The only good thing for Avalanche of steel is that it lets the GWF escape battle for 4 secodns and recover his potion cooldwon without taking damage. Oddly enough you can still be affected by knock powers while jumping.

    And as for Savage this move is horrible I have never seen a GWF employ it once in PVE, I've seen it used once in PVP. The damage is far too low it pales in comparison to crescendo, and is weaker in every way to indomitable strength. for control and knock. There is no reason to ever uses this move that knocks back so many targets GWF want as many targets around them as possible at all times. The move is pointless.

    I use Terryfing Impact all the time on my GF, It is lightning fast compared to Avalanche of steel. it is easy to hit 5 targets with Terryfying impact. If you have threat take 3 steps back and unleash all the mobs you have threat chase you and form a nice line. Bam you win.

    Even Slam is slow, sure its "Activation" is Fast but it takes 10 secodns for you to deal the moves full damage. And CW's can blast appart pulls in 5 seconds. You will never get the full damage of Slam on 5 Targets unless your group is really really slow at killing things. But since it does not lock you into an endless animation Slam is by far the best GWF daily. And it is still glitched and cannot crit and cannot trigger weapon procs. Unlike CW's and DC's you got there dailies Arcane Singularity and Flame strike to crit properly. GWF as always is left in the dust.

    So yeah there are your facts buddy GWF suck, GF pwn and the devs keep blasting the class so I will never invite them to groups. I only group with my few good GWF who are telling me they are quitting because of the loss of animation cancel. They resent me for my damage and hate the fact they can barely beat me in damage if they beat my numbers at all.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Ever since slam was severely nerfed, the skill became irrellevant for pve aswell as pvp. The skill used to be our main source of aoe dmg. It was not overpowered in any way and is now way too underpowered for a daily. The excuse was "We wanted to give the skill more utility" etc. but i think, adding an interrupt to the -> initial <- hit has not accomplished that. If every tick would interrupt or at least have a chance of interrupting it would be a complete different story. The new skill addon (dmg reduction, i think) also seems like a bad decision and in fact does not provide anything good for our class, at all since the slam duration was severly nerfed aswell. The entire dmg cycle of slam deals damage like a lvl 20 CW using at wills nowadays.

    The devs should really consider to rework slam, to make it become more useful again.
    (note for the devs: adding utility effect over utility effect, does/can/will never compensate what you guys have done to the skill's damage output.)

  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Wow you really know nothing about GWF if you think the GWF's dailies do more damage than there At-wills. Spinning strike started out as absolutely horrible daily that rooted you into a spin for far too long doing pitiful damage. The buff this move got only put the damage done on par with your at will spam. Menaing using this is jsut a waste of action points. Avalanche of steel is by far the worst offender of GWF dailies. It is weaker than the CW encounter Shard of Endless Avalanche in every way. Damage, speed and the CW version does not stop the CW from using other moves before the move is discharged. The only good thing for Avalanche of steel is that it lets the GWF escape battle for 4 secodns and recover his potion cooldwon without taking damage. Oddly enough you can still be affected by knock powers while jumping.

    yeah but formus are full of ppl like him who never played gwf at all just look number of ppl calaim that dps gwf is harder to kill then gf or it can tank better and one of most funy one is that gwf encounters do a lot more damage then gf...
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Avalanch of steel is another daily potentially excellent for damage, but it makes the list of "useless" because of the problem of the mechanics of the class.

    You have an initial animation of 1 second + more hop 4. Total = 5 seconds.
    In the meantime you lost your bonus critic / destroyer that are equal to = 3 sec during periods of inactivity.
    If time were larger, we would not crit 7/8k boundless target. Since we have a time limit of 3 sec, stayed in 5/6 k. which is poor for a dps class daily.

    and certain things that should work well in practice, but only work on the theory that simple changes like nerf on a slam/ wms cause much trouble.

    Will the well reasoned feedback work?


    this is the future of the class: someone will abuse the any class mechanic , and mechanics will be changed this will be released, destroying the class as a whole. why? why the "whole" class not working.
  • vortix44vortix44 Member Posts: 680 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    The entire dmg cycle of slam deals damage like a lvl 20 CW using at wills .

    The devs should really consider to rework slam

    Or they should at least be coherent and rename it into "scam". No damage, no cc, no duration, an alleged bonus (dmg reduction? That goes against the very idea of the gwf. Higher damage conversion into AD, yes that would be an actual bonus.)
    English is not my first language.
  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I'll just leave this here.
    http://i.imgur.com/amtlxui.png
    http://i.imgur.com/UIBNvLg.png
    Do you seriously think the tiny damage buffs to some powers will offset this difference?
    Wicked Strike is bad and you should feel bad.
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    I'll just leave this here.
    http://i.imgur.com/amtlxui.png
    http://i.imgur.com/UIBNvLg.png
    Do you seriously think the tiny damage buffs to some powers will offset this difference?
    Wicked Strike is bad and you should feel bad.

    If you think WMS was better as WS, than you was in an exploiter mentality. That was clear for me since month, that WMS is worser than WS. And only the exploiter say that WMS is better WS. And the numbers don't say that's a bad power(36% of your damage come from an at-will!).
    zacazu wrote: »
    Avalanch of steel is another daily potentially excellent for damage, but it makes the list of "useless" because of the problem of the mechanics of the class.

    You have an initial animation of 1 second + more hop 4. Total = 5 seconds.
    In the meantime you lost your bonus critic / destroyer that are equal to = 3 sec during periods of inactivity.
    If time were larger, we would not crit 7/8k boundless target. Since we have a time limit of 3 sec, stayed in 5/6 k. which is poor for a dps class daily.

    and certain things that should work well in practice, but only work on the theory that simple changes like nerf on a slam/ wms cause much trouble.

    Will the well reasoned feedback work?


    this is the future of the class: someone will abuse the any class mechanic , and mechanics will be changed this will be released, destroying the class as a whole. why? why the "whole" class not working.

    It would help if the destroyer stacks freeze until you land. The extra crits would help to compensate the lower damage.
    Wow you really know nothing about GWF if you think the GWF's dailies do more damage than there At-wills. Spinning strike started out as absolutely horrible daily that rooted you into a spin for far too long doing pitiful damage. The buff this move got only put the damage done on par with your at will spam. Menaing using this is jsut a waste of action points. Avalanche of steel is by far the worst offender of GWF dailies. It is weaker than the CW encounter Shard of Endless Avalanche in every way. Damage, speed and the CW version does not stop the CW from using other moves before the move is discharged. The only good thing for Avalanche of steel is that it lets the GWF escape battle for 4 secodns and recover his potion cooldwon without taking damage. Oddly enough you can still be affected by knock powers while jumping.

    And as for Savage this move is horrible I have never seen a GWF employ it once in PVE, I've seen it used once in PVP. The damage is far too low it pales in comparison to crescendo, and is weaker in every way to indomitable strength. for control and knock. There is no reason to ever uses this move that knocks back so many targets GWF want as many targets around them as possible at all times. The move is pointless.

    I use Terryfing Impact all the time on my GF, It is lightning fast compared to Avalanche of steel. it is easy to hit 5 targets with Terryfying impact. If you have threat take 3 steps back and unleash all the mobs you have threat chase you and form a nice line. Bam you win.

    Even Slam is slow, sure its "Activation" is Fast but it takes 10 secodns for you to deal the moves full damage. And CW's can blast appart pulls in 5 seconds. You will never get the full damage of Slam on 5 Targets unless your group is really really slow at killing things. But since it does not lock you into an endless animation Slam is by far the best GWF daily. And it is still glitched and cannot crit and cannot trigger weapon procs. Unlike CW's and DC's you got there dailies Arcane Singularity and Flame strike to crit properly. GWF as always is left in the dust.

    So yeah there are your facts buddy GWF suck, GF pwn and the devs keep blasting the class so I will never invite them to groups. I only group with my few good GWF who are telling me they are quitting because of the loss of animation cancel. They resent me for my damage and hate the fact they can barely beat me in damage if they beat my numbers at all.

    You don't understand was a daily is or? Daily aren't atomic bomb skills that can you throw out every 5 minutes. One cleave hit do more than indomitable strength and? That mean that IS is the worst **** ever? IS has another usefulness as cleave has.

    And you have to learn to differ between casting, duration/length and utility. If you use dailies properly they add more damage/utility as you think. Using crescendo against a weak target, that get overkilled by this, instead of WS unstoppable against a group of mobs, then it's your fail. AoS activation if you know that the mobs don't last long enough or the group of them is too small = fail thinking. Slam. Why you think it's important to use this against a group of fast dying mobs? Again a mindfail! It has it's use for example in pvp. It SLOW down your opponent and he can do less damage too. So a CW/TR and especially a GF can't run away from you. If they dodge = sprint to them. And that's for 10s! How many hits you miss with a failed encounter/at-will because you can't outrun your opponent?
    Spinning strike has it's utility in CC-immunity(if it doesn't bug out), mobility and deflection rate with additionally group dps. If you time it correct after an unstoppable phase against a group it do lot more dps as you can do with slow WS/WMS. But what i explain to the 'master' of the 'master'? You all know it so much better as other... Dps is the only that count. Because of this GF and DC are useless teamslot waster...
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    But this illustrates the point of cyan. All our Dailys are utilities, either to the group, either for ourselves. We have no "atomic bomb," no time in the gwf say to yourself "now feel my power." Spinning strike is a joke, both in terms of damage and aesthetically. I have a giant sword to be spinning like a ballerina! wow, very cool ...

    I hate doing pvp with gwf, but I always see the class currently taking beatings, and cw / rogue on top, then ... what is the reason of not having a massive daily damage now? Why not give the avalanch of steel 60% damage we have lost the old slam?

    and most importantly, not that I have no hope of any change in this regard. why unstoppable destroyer, instead of giving 10% damage to encounter - as if we were a class of powerful encounters - not give critical chance? I'm unstoppable+larger critical chance+ bleed = destroyer updated for the changes made ​​to the game. simple and actual.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    My spinning strike tested on dummies hit for 30-35k overall. I don't think it's that bad.
    More than any other daily when you hit 3+ targets.

    I agree that Slam should interrupt with every tick. However, consider that you're able to use your encounters and at-wills for the entire duration of the daily. It's ok if it is a utility daily, but i agree that it needs more utility :P
  • monteiroxmonteirox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    U guys make the GWF OP now they have damage and survival that is a big error u even need a good set for that build, think about balance class !!!!!
This discussion has been closed.