I would like to see this game get an update to the D&D next RPG rules set.
4th edition rules was the least favorite rules set to begin with. The next rules set bring back alot of the older rules for spell casters. I have been playtesting the new rules and it is better way better then 4th edition.
After the awful 4e WoC had to come with something more fundamentally sound. Unfortunately i think you are looking at the next video game release to see these rules in action. I for one cant wait, havnt played a D&D video game since NWN2.. long time.
I absolutely wouldn't. It's Champions-Online/Star-Trek-Online wrapped in a fantasy skin. It's basically "Cryptics Generic Combat Engine" with different labels and textures applied.
This, while not familiar with champions online and star trek, i am familiar with all editions of D&D. The engine comes off as very generic and nothing D&D resonates at all.
Um....I think your mixing a bit of information up.
Neveriwnter is a three to one ratio. As in, level 60 is level 20 in pen and paper terms.
This was stated multiple times pre-release.
Furthermore "Paragon Paths" is just a name. It is the equivalent of "Prestige Class" with some minor alterations.
And point blank: Dungeons and Dragons is not a balnaced game.
MMO's need to be balanced. D&D is not. Period. Changes had to happen.
The game is very much based on D&D thorugh and through but no you can't make a direct translation without making a completely broken game. The changes make it easier to balance while still sticking true to the rules of the game. Open up the rule books and compare the powers. The only large deviation is the feats which I'm not really fond of.
Saying because instead of rolling a d20 the roll is a d100 doesn't make it any less of a D&D game.
If that's all you see...well...then you are lost.
Well, ive been a dedicated D&D gamer since the early 80s and i couldnt disagree with you more. "changes HAD to happen" Thats BS sir. Changes were chosen... Not required. The game is not based on D&D through and through. Theres no DM intervention, theres no giant spells lists to choose from, theres no character diversity and everything is balanced, rendering cookie cutter toons that all play the same. In fact it doesnt resemble the game i know in any measure. As far as the D20 system thats only a small part of what has been widely established as D&D fundamentals, which this game has done an awful job of "basing" itself on..
I think if people want to play d&d, gather your friends and go table :P
Always the best and easy way!
Except its not easy, my friends have jobs, kids, wives. Not easy. So need something online, something D&D. An upgraded NWN2.... what many thought this game was gonna be.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Except its not easy, my friends have jobs, kids, wives. Not easy. So need something online, something D&D. An upgraded NWN2.... what many thought this game was gonna be.
Yea. There has been some attempt to make it "online tabletop" but doesn't seem to "kick off" MMO does it better because it allow players to do whatever solo or with friends. The table top require couple of people at least to get it rolling (well technically 2 but that is no fun)
Yeah I know, I'm 30 with a baby coming, I totally understand, but I said that because it's very hard to make a balanced d&d video game with the original rules. I played nwn and nwn2 a lot, and the pvp there was not good because some classes just trample others. Even in pve there were people who tried to play some classes and always got sad because can't match the op ones, like clerics with implosion, wizards with power word death, monks/rogues, even barbarians half-orc.
Hmm, never really paid much attention to the lore & game worlds (Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, etc). We just "played D&D". (This was in grade school and highschool, so it was "blue book" Basic D&D, and 1st Ed AD&D.)
Have played the various computer games in all eras - from the Gold Box SSI games, to the arcade games, to Baldur's Gate, to Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, to NWN, to DDO, to this. Plenty of D&D games, not all of them tried to be strict with the rules, or play like the tabletop game - and that's fine. Trying to make your digital game play like an analog game can frequently lead to silly results.
...gotta say, I miss 1st & 2nd edition. NWN was fine, but playing DDO gave me a really bad impression of 3.5 - way too over-complicated, and waaaaaaay too focused on obsessive min-maxing (but a good bit of that is probably because it's a computer game, and doesn't have a DM to tweak stuff around the players - you gotta min-max in some CRPGs.)
Yeah I know, I'm 30 with a baby coming, I totally understand, but I said that because it's very hard to make a balanced d&d video game with the original rules. I played nwn and nwn2 a lot, and the pvp there was not good because some classes just trample others. Even in pve there were people who tried to play some classes and always got sad because can't match the op ones, like clerics with implosion, wizards with power word death, monks/rogues, even barbarians half-orc.
First and foremost congrats!
You mention balance. The obsession with class balance is one of the biggest issues. Any D&D game ive ever played tabletop video game or otherwise is not balanced. No form of D&D should ever be balanced or it right there ceases to be D&D. Gotta get this absurd class balancing out to even have a chance at D&D.
. . . . . I started back with the "D&D" Hollow World boxed set, over 20 years ago. Been DMing the Forgotten Realms for almost 20 years now also. 2nd edition is my favorite and remains the edition I DM under for the Rule-set (not lore/timeline). However, I still use the glorious Poison Tables from the original "D&D" DM's guide. It's awesome like that!
I liked 2nd edition for the skills and how they progressed with leveling. 2nd edition you had a more detailed character system. 3.5 was great for the combat system. Both of those and the 1st edition spells magic system was the best. 4th was just to simple a short bus rider could play it. Thats why its a failed system.
Which system had that random table if you mixed 2 potions together.
This always happens to DnD games when making a video game just when the game comes out they are already changing the pen and paper side also.
As others have said, to incorporate the new rules (with drastic changes) we are talking about a major base rule changes i.e. the basic game engine. That would be tough to do unless Neverwinters Online II or something.
Also the popularity of 4e is pretty good. You can go by book sales (how many people bought it vs 3.5 etc) I think it is align with many model type games (hero clix etc) people like visual things. Warhammer have shown that on table top style
I started with D&D basic where Elf was a class
Even the company Wotc does go by book sales. 3.5 rules stuff out sells 4.0 stuff. If 4.0 is so great and out doing the previous edition then why change it back to the more previous edition game style.
You mention balance. The obsession with class balance is one of the biggest issues. Any D&D game ive ever played tabletop video game or otherwise is not balanced. No form of D&D should ever be balanced or it right there ceases to be D&D. Gotta get this absurd class balancing out to even have a chance at D&D.
Amen. Rock, scissors, paper. In order to "balance" pvp combat, every class seems to end up being identical with the only difference being the naming of the attack/power/spell/etc. and the associated animation. It's annoying. If I wanna play a **** rock, let me play the best **** rock I can be. It was (and hopefully never will be) one-vs-one balanced. It's about the apparently lost art of teamwork.
I started D&D with the collector's edition of the original rules before realizing they weren't current and then alternated between AD%D 1st and B&E+. Stopped playing AD&D after 2cd came out (combination of too-little-too-late fixes, annoyance at the removal of 'evil' demons, half orcs etc..., and generally being burnt out on dungeon crawls. All of that said, my only real complaint about NW as D&D is the odd monster progression - orcs at low levels (fine) then devils at mid level... then lizardmen, then goblins? (and I refuse to accept those monstrosities in Karru as being kobolds!) Do wish they had more classic monsters in the game though. Owlbears were big on my want list, but not in the form they got introduced!
As imbalanced as the classes are in this game, it's still better than 1st by a long shot. Magic Users, one shot wonders at first level turning to engines of destruction at high levels. Thieves pretty much weak at all levels. Multi-class characters running the show until they hit arbitrary level caps (except most DMs ended up waiving those)
Which system had that random table if you mixed 2 potions together.
The Potion Miscibility table was in the 1st Ed DMG.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2013
A co-op or single player game can be out of balance and have only minor issues.
MMO's can't be out of balance.
Thus the rule set had to be changed. DDO is a perfect example of how not to make an MMO rule-set IMO. It's stupidly min-maxed due to the third edition ruleset. As much as I love D&D I couldn't care less if the DDO servers caught on fire. I literally hate everything about it because despite it appearing to be more in line with the D&D ruleset it's the perfect example as to why it shouldn't.
MMO's without balance don't create a good gaming experience.
Just read the forums, the main complaints are when things aren't balanced such as Tenebrous.
DDO isn't a direct translation of D&D...but it's still too direct to be a good MMO.
If you're waiting for an MMO to be a direct translation you'll be waiting a long time because players tend to not realze how them enjoying the game can be detrimental to the game's success and enjoyment for the player base at large.
Third Edition as a player: super fun.
Third Edition as a DM: Kill me now please.
I played nwn and nwn2 a lot, and the pvp there was not good because some classes just trample others. Even in pve there were people who tried to play some classes and always got sad because can't match the op ones, like clerics with implosion, wizards with power word death, monks/rogues, even barbarians half-orc.
You didn't even touch on the more serious cases that I ran into.
My uncles cleric didn't use implosion but it could solo anything the game developers threw at it. He would literally act as a one man party and solo group content. If he was feeling nice he would let people follow but tell them not to interfere because more often than not people would end up getting themselves and/or him killed.
But the biggest example, to me, of an overpowered class was the shadowdancer. Stealth, crit sneak attack for hundreds of damage, rinse and repeat. That class caused DM's to put true seeing on so many more monsters than they normally would have just to apply some form of challenge.
As a player it was great fun. As somebody trying to make an enjoyable game for everybody it was a nightmare because now the creator has to decide whether to balance the game for the non-op, non-min-maxed characters and allow the content to be trivial for somebody like the shadowdancer or to balance the game for the shadowdancer or other OP characters while potentially making the game too difficult for the other players.
That's what D&D rules are. In PnP or small co-ops that can fly to some extent but in an MMO that wouldn't last. Notice how DDO doesn't allow players to be shadowdancers? I couldn't imagine why they haven't added that class...
lurksnomoreMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited October 2013
I started with BECMI D&D back in the late eighties, and have played all the versions of (A)D&D since that - 2e AD&D, 3.0/3.5e, and 4e.
Personally, I think that the claims how 4e "dumbed down" things are at best ignorant and at worst show an unpleasant elitism and snobbery. I loved 3e, don't mistake me - played two multi-year campaigns to epic levels, as well as numerous short campaigns and one-shots - but the game had some very, very big flaws that only grew more visible and troublesome as it matured. 4e got rid of the worst imbalances that 3e introduced, while keeping the best ideas from that era (unified progression, universal core mechanic, streamlined saves/defenses, etc.), and is currently my favorite edition. 5e playtest has been underwhelming and frustrating for me so far; for every good idea they have, they seem to bring back one old bad idea that was gotten rid for good reasons.
But the biggest example, to me, of an overpowered class was the shadowdancer. Stealth, crit sneak attack for hundreds of damage, rinse and repeat. That class caused DM's to put true seeing on so many more monsters than they normally would have just to apply some form of challenge.
Ironically, shadowdancers are arguably underpowered in the tabletop 3e D&D! Goes on to show how much things can differ.
Regardless of how popular 4e is or not, the game barely follows the PnP RPG rules outside of some names and and very basic concept anyhow so I'd hesitate to really call it a "4e game" to begin with.
I have to say I agree with enixonbb. This game barely touches the finer points of the D&D rules (the mathematical side of things), because you always appear to perform an action immediately after pressing the corresponding button. The only apparent 4e trait is in the cosmetic side of things. Otherwise even if it was based on AD&D 2e rules, the game would still feel exactly the same.
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arontimesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Have you folks read the D&D Next rules? It reads like D&D 3.5 but it feels like a combination of 2e and 4e when you actually sit down and play it. It has the balance of 4e and the more free-form fantasy feel of 2e that got lost in the transition to 3e (it tried to have rules for everything, which really restricted what you could or couldn't do.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited October 2013
. . . . . It's not the Rule-set that makes D&D. It is the Players, the DM, the Lore, the Story, the Role-playing, and the Adventure. The Rule-sets are adjustable, optional, and interchange-able at the DM's will.
Have you folks read the D&D Next rules? It reads like D&D 3.5 but it feels like a combination of 2e and 4e when you actually sit down and play it. It has the balance of 4e and the more free-form fantasy feel of 2e that got lost in the
transition to 3e (it tried to have rules for everything, which really restricted what you could or couldn't do.
The only part that really feels "4e" to me are the caster attack at-will cantrips. Everything else feels like a mix of mostly 2e, with some 3e thrown on top of it. Inspiration seems to mostly be drawn from 2e than anything else.
Their current playtest for the multiclassing rules are straight up 3e, though, and is currently sort of problematic. Same problems as early 3e when classes were frontloaded and a ton of people dipped that single level. I'd rather not have them gut the earlier levels just to make multiclassing work. Single-class really needs to be the default assumption.
A co-op or single player game can be out of balance and have only minor issues.
MMO's can't be out of balance.
Thus the rule set had to be changed. DDO is a perfect example of how not to make an MMO rule-set IMO. It's stupidly min-maxed due to the third edition ruleset. As much as I love D&D I couldn't care less if the DDO servers caught on fire. I literally hate everything about it because despite it appearing to be more in line with the D&D ruleset it's the perfect example as to why it shouldn't.
MMO's without balance don't create a good gaming experience.
Just read the forums, the main complaints are when things aren't balanced such as Tenebrous.
DDO isn't a direct translation of D&D...but it's still too direct to be a good MMO.
If you're waiting for an MMO to be a direct translation you'll be waiting a long time because players tend to not realze how them enjoying the game can be detrimental to the game's success and enjoyment for the player base at large.
Third Edition as a player: super fun.
Third Edition as a DM: Kill me now please.
Well, we are all players. Can we have super fun now? Since there is no DM interaction?
Your right, if D&D is never balanced, and it isnt. And mmo's must be balanced. Then mmo's can never be D&D yes?
. . . . . It's not the Rule-set that makes D&D. It is the Players, the DM, the Lore, the Story, the Role-playing, and the Adventure. The Rule-sets are adjustable, optional, and interchange-able at the DM's will.
Amen.
(Reminds me of the Shadowrun campaign I played in during undergrad.... we used the Shadowrun sourcebooks & modules, but the Rolemaster/Spacemaster mechanics. Not that Rolemaster didn't need a lot of GM fudging to keep up a playable pace )
Their current playtest for the multiclassing rules are straight up 3e, and is currently sort of problematic. Same problems as early 3e when classes were frontloaded and a ton of people dipped that single level. I'd rather not have them gut the earlier levels just to make multiclassing work. Single-class really needs to be the default assumption.
Yeah, that really surprised me, when I tried DDO - multiclassing was everywhere! Back when I played tabletop (1st & 2nd ed), multiclassing was rare. At least for the people I played with. /shrug
. . . . . It's not the Rule-set that makes D&D. It is the Players, the DM, the Lore, the Story, the Role-playing, and the Adventure. The Rule-sets are adjustable, optional, and interchange-able at the DM's will.
Agree, as long as the RP sets up the adventures...and the players are team oriented, and a DM exists.
I maintain an eye in the sky in game DM would open this game up to everything, with a live DM(s) use any rules you want. RP now has some semblance of control. No DMs no agree with you.:)
I started at the tail end of second edition and still prefer that one.
Thing is it seems like most of the people who started with video games such as NWN and DDO seem to think Third Edition is the only edition and like to claim D&D is _____ or _____ requiring a good foot in mouth because first and second edition were vastly different from third edition.
All in all I reference what is pertinent to the discussion. However if I reference what I enjoyed the most it would be second edition. I actually have a love hate relationship with third edition because as fun as it is as far as I am concerned it's the most imbalanced game rule-set ever created.
D&D is not a rule set. It is a Role Playing Game with DM interaction and unbalanced character diversity.... This stuff isnt offered in the neverwinter mmo D&D game... and of course this is the argument. When will this game stop falsely advertising its self as a Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game??
In any D&D game the players have control, through there RP, or through the base rules, or both. One way or another players must have some semblance of control. Thats a backbone characteristic of all forms, formats, and rulesets of the ancient D&D game. Players must have some control. Theres no way to avoid this.
I really think the fact that this game is an action-mmo doesn't exclude de fact that it's a d&d game. D&D tactics have the ruleset of d&d, but don't have any dm interaction or nothing of RP, but still a d&d game. Imo a d&d game don't need to be like a table top, you can perfect create your personal engine, theme it with d&d worlds, and thats fine. One time ago I even play a Gurps campaign (urgh) in forgotten realms! lol
But the fact is that d&d table is for co-op, pve. If you pick those rules to make a MMO, you can't have pvp. I really prefer a game like NW with pvp (hope they balance more the enchants though) then a game with d&d rules with no pvp (as I love pvp at the same level of pve).
But it's not a problem, really. The important is that the game is fun to play. I bring to NW 8 friends of mine, all of them d&d table top lovers, and you know why they come? Because they loved the action gameplay, they as me are tired of tradicional mmo gameplay (wow style), and when a differente game appears, with forgotten realms and neverwinter lore, they like me just go crazy (this before playing, we all stay a little concerned first).
Now think about the people who never played d&d, the rulesets are very non attractive at all, thinking that they will never play NW, we problaby will have a little player base, and it does not keep servers up
Just my thoughts guys, hope you understand my opinion as english is not my language
I really think the fact that this game is an action-mmo doesn't exclude de fact that it's a d&d game. D&D tactics have the ruleset of d&d, but don't have any dm interaction or nothing of RP, but still a d&d game. Imo a d&d game don't need to be like a table top, you can perfect create your personal engine, theme it with d&d worlds, and thats fine. One time ago I even play a Gurps campaign (urgh) in forgotten realms! lol
But the fact is that d&d table is for co-op, pve. If you pick those rules to make a MMO, you can't have pvp. I really prefer a game like NW with pvp (hope they balance more the enchants though) then a game with d&d rules with no pvp (as I love pvp at the same level of pve).
But it's not a problem, really. The important is that the game is fun to play. I bring to NW 8 friends of mine, all of them d&d table top lovers, and you know why they come? Because they loved the action gameplay, they as me are tired of tradicional mmo gameplay (wow style), and when a differente game appears, with forgotten realms and neverwinter lore, they like me just go crazy (this before playing, we all stay a little concerned first).
Now think about the people who never played d&d, the rulesets are very non attractive at all, thinking that they will never play NW, we problaby will have a little player base, and it does not keep servers up
Just my thoughts guys, hope you understand my opinion as english is not my language
PS: Thanks bracer2! A new d&d players is coming
*smirks* well, the FR and NW lore you refer too is awesome.. if and only if we can interact with it and the lore and setting offered functionality. These are just terms with zero in game functionality.
My same experience, brought in 5 of my buddies during CB, one remains... the lack of RP, and character diversity turned them off.
As far as PvP, i cant understand why its not open world. The idea that you have to remove yourself from the main game into a sub game with limitations and requirements baffles me. Open world pvp, done.
Comments
After the awful 4e WoC had to come with something more fundamentally sound. Unfortunately i think you are looking at the next video game release to see these rules in action. I for one cant wait, havnt played a D&D video game since NWN2.. long time.
This, while not familiar with champions online and star trek, i am familiar with all editions of D&D. The engine comes off as very generic and nothing D&D resonates at all.
Well, ive been a dedicated D&D gamer since the early 80s and i couldnt disagree with you more. "changes HAD to happen" Thats BS sir. Changes were chosen... Not required. The game is not based on D&D through and through. Theres no DM intervention, theres no giant spells lists to choose from, theres no character diversity and everything is balanced, rendering cookie cutter toons that all play the same. In fact it doesnt resemble the game i know in any measure. As far as the D20 system thats only a small part of what has been widely established as D&D fundamentals, which this game has done an awful job of "basing" itself on..
Always the best and easy way!
Except its not easy, my friends have jobs, kids, wives. Not easy. So need something online, something D&D. An upgraded NWN2.... what many thought this game was gonna be.
Yea. There has been some attempt to make it "online tabletop" but doesn't seem to "kick off" MMO does it better because it allow players to do whatever solo or with friends. The table top require couple of people at least to get it rolling (well technically 2 but that is no fun)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Have played the various computer games in all eras - from the Gold Box SSI games, to the arcade games, to Baldur's Gate, to Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, to NWN, to DDO, to this. Plenty of D&D games, not all of them tried to be strict with the rules, or play like the tabletop game - and that's fine. Trying to make your digital game play like an analog game can frequently lead to silly results.
...gotta say, I miss 1st & 2nd edition. NWN was fine, but playing DDO gave me a really bad impression of 3.5 - way too over-complicated, and waaaaaaay too focused on obsessive min-maxing (but a good bit of that is probably because it's a computer game, and doesn't have a DM to tweak stuff around the players - you gotta min-max in some CRPGs.)
First and foremost congrats!
You mention balance. The obsession with class balance is one of the biggest issues. Any D&D game ive ever played tabletop video game or otherwise is not balanced. No form of D&D should ever be balanced or it right there ceases to be D&D. Gotta get this absurd class balancing out to even have a chance at D&D.
I liked 2nd edition for the skills and how they progressed with leveling. 2nd edition you had a more detailed character system. 3.5 was great for the combat system. Both of those and the 1st edition spells magic system was the best. 4th was just to simple a short bus rider could play it. Thats why its a failed system.
Which system had that random table if you mixed 2 potions together.
This always happens to DnD games when making a video game just when the game comes out they are already changing the pen and paper side also.
Even the company Wotc does go by book sales. 3.5 rules stuff out sells 4.0 stuff. If 4.0 is so great and out doing the previous edition then why change it back to the more previous edition game style.
Amen. Rock, scissors, paper. In order to "balance" pvp combat, every class seems to end up being identical with the only difference being the naming of the attack/power/spell/etc. and the associated animation. It's annoying. If I wanna play a **** rock, let me play the best **** rock I can be. It was (and hopefully never will be) one-vs-one balanced. It's about the apparently lost art of teamwork.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
As imbalanced as the classes are in this game, it's still better than 1st by a long shot. Magic Users, one shot wonders at first level turning to engines of destruction at high levels. Thieves pretty much weak at all levels. Multi-class characters running the show until they hit arbitrary level caps (except most DMs ended up waiving those)
The Potion Miscibility table was in the 1st Ed DMG.
MMO's can't be out of balance.
Thus the rule set had to be changed. DDO is a perfect example of how not to make an MMO rule-set IMO. It's stupidly min-maxed due to the third edition ruleset. As much as I love D&D I couldn't care less if the DDO servers caught on fire. I literally hate everything about it because despite it appearing to be more in line with the D&D ruleset it's the perfect example as to why it shouldn't.
MMO's without balance don't create a good gaming experience.
Just read the forums, the main complaints are when things aren't balanced such as Tenebrous.
DDO isn't a direct translation of D&D...but it's still too direct to be a good MMO.
If you're waiting for an MMO to be a direct translation you'll be waiting a long time because players tend to not realze how them enjoying the game can be detrimental to the game's success and enjoyment for the player base at large.
Third Edition as a player: super fun.
Third Edition as a DM: Kill me now please.
You didn't even touch on the more serious cases that I ran into.
My uncles cleric didn't use implosion but it could solo anything the game developers threw at it. He would literally act as a one man party and solo group content. If he was feeling nice he would let people follow but tell them not to interfere because more often than not people would end up getting themselves and/or him killed.
But the biggest example, to me, of an overpowered class was the shadowdancer. Stealth, crit sneak attack for hundreds of damage, rinse and repeat. That class caused DM's to put true seeing on so many more monsters than they normally would have just to apply some form of challenge.
As a player it was great fun. As somebody trying to make an enjoyable game for everybody it was a nightmare because now the creator has to decide whether to balance the game for the non-op, non-min-maxed characters and allow the content to be trivial for somebody like the shadowdancer or to balance the game for the shadowdancer or other OP characters while potentially making the game too difficult for the other players.
That's what D&D rules are. In PnP or small co-ops that can fly to some extent but in an MMO that wouldn't last. Notice how DDO doesn't allow players to be shadowdancers? I couldn't imagine why they haven't added that class...
Personally, I think that the claims how 4e "dumbed down" things are at best ignorant and at worst show an unpleasant elitism and snobbery. I loved 3e, don't mistake me - played two multi-year campaigns to epic levels, as well as numerous short campaigns and one-shots - but the game had some very, very big flaws that only grew more visible and troublesome as it matured. 4e got rid of the worst imbalances that 3e introduced, while keeping the best ideas from that era (unified progression, universal core mechanic, streamlined saves/defenses, etc.), and is currently my favorite edition. 5e playtest has been underwhelming and frustrating for me so far; for every good idea they have, they seem to bring back one old bad idea that was gotten rid for good reasons.
Ironically, shadowdancers are arguably underpowered in the tabletop 3e D&D! Goes on to show how much things can differ.
I have to say I agree with enixonbb. This game barely touches the finer points of the D&D rules (the mathematical side of things), because you always appear to perform an action immediately after pressing the corresponding button. The only apparent 4e trait is in the cosmetic side of things. Otherwise even if it was based on AD&D 2e rules, the game would still feel exactly the same.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
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Again, currently. Not "of all time."
The only part that really feels "4e" to me are the caster attack at-will cantrips. Everything else feels like a mix of mostly 2e, with some 3e thrown on top of it. Inspiration seems to mostly be drawn from 2e than anything else.
Their current playtest for the multiclassing rules are straight up 3e, though, and is currently sort of problematic. Same problems as early 3e when classes were frontloaded and a ton of people dipped that single level. I'd rather not have them gut the earlier levels just to make multiclassing work. Single-class really needs to be the default assumption.
Well, we are all players. Can we have super fun now? Since there is no DM interaction?
Your right, if D&D is never balanced, and it isnt. And mmo's must be balanced. Then mmo's can never be D&D yes?
Lets get to the super fun soon plz.
Amen.
(Reminds me of the Shadowrun campaign I played in during undergrad.... we used the Shadowrun sourcebooks & modules, but the Rolemaster/Spacemaster mechanics. Not that Rolemaster didn't need a lot of GM fudging to keep up a playable pace
Yeah, that really surprised me, when I tried DDO - multiclassing was everywhere! Back when I played tabletop (1st & 2nd ed), multiclassing was rare. At least for the people I played with. /shrug
Agree, as long as the RP sets up the adventures...and the players are team oriented, and a DM exists.
I maintain an eye in the sky in game DM would open this game up to everything, with a live DM(s) use any rules you want. RP now has some semblance of control. No DMs no agree with you.:)
D&D is not a rule set. It is a Role Playing Game with DM interaction and unbalanced character diversity.... This stuff isnt offered in the neverwinter mmo D&D game... and of course this is the argument. When will this game stop falsely advertising its self as a Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game??
But the fact is that d&d table is for co-op, pve. If you pick those rules to make a MMO, you can't have pvp. I really prefer a game like NW with pvp (hope they balance more the enchants though) then a game with d&d rules with no pvp (as I love pvp at the same level of pve).
But it's not a problem, really. The important is that the game is fun to play. I bring to NW 8 friends of mine, all of them d&d table top lovers, and you know why they come? Because they loved the action gameplay, they as me are tired of tradicional mmo gameplay (wow style), and when a differente game appears, with forgotten realms and neverwinter lore, they like me just go crazy (this before playing, we all stay a little concerned first).
Now think about the people who never played d&d, the rulesets are very non attractive at all, thinking that they will never play NW, we problaby will have a little player base, and it does not keep servers up
Just my thoughts guys, hope you understand my opinion as english is not my language
PS: Thanks bracer2! A new d&d players is coming
*smirks* well, the FR and NW lore you refer too is awesome.. if and only if we can interact with it and the lore and setting offered functionality. These are just terms with zero in game functionality.
My same experience, brought in 5 of my buddies during CB, one remains... the lack of RP, and character diversity turned them off.
As far as PvP, i cant understand why its not open world. The idea that you have to remove yourself from the main game into a sub game with limitations and requirements baffles me. Open world pvp, done.