I am relatively new to my current guild. But I’ve not seen a decrease of groups forming nor seen any recent drop of them being online since going BOP. They are doing twice a week pre-announced dungeon runs, levels based on response and pretty much nightly there are groups made with a simple shout out.
I read the word ‘Veterans’ tossed out a lot. What/who is a Veteran? A special group who has played since day one of closed Beta? Since open Beta? Founders? Certain number of hours IG? I have no idea what or who they are, I wonder who these people are that speak for all Veterans. I’ve played since open Beta, am a Founder and played almost daily since open Beta. But I must not be a veteran because I sure did not give these folks the ok to speak for me and I disagree with a good portion of them.
I see now it just people stuck in the past .Oh I hate it that ones who love this bop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> are on mind set AH=p2w when it not(because some super lazy *** can buy AD with real life money). That not why the AH is there it to SELL your LOOT . My god this is getting old fast.
And OMG! I am one of those lazy*** as fallenhawk calls me because I have traded Zen for ADs. Well take me outside and beat me with a stick will ya. Oh the shame!
You sir or ma’am, do not know the meaning of the word if you call trading Zen for ADs as being a lazy***. I generally stop reading a writer when they show juvenile behavior of playground name calling that should have been left behind with adolescences. This however made me laugh considering Lazy generally means someone who is averse or disinclined to work. Yet working is what gives me a few bucks to toss at game on a regular basis even though it limits my time to ‘be lazy’ sitting around playing a game for hours on in. Learn a word before applying it to people.
Back on topic, I would prefer bound to account. What toon you run in a group varies and you sometimes have to switch to the toon that makes the group dynamics work. Bound to account still keeps farmers at bay, if that was the intent, while allowing players the benefit on running toons which optimize the group for success and hopeful completion. It would also reinforce making ‘the group’ the priority vs. the need of one.
I understand players are upset because it's easy now to hit the 24k daily refine limit.
A few days ago, I created a second character because, to be honest, it's a little boring and sometimes unrewarding to always play my main character, especially after the daily refine limit is reached.
I have been doing low lvl pvp with my new cleric alt. More fun and different (in a good way) than pvp with my lvl 60 CW. Also enjoying running through all the quests again.
If you have reached the daily refine limit, I strongly encourage you to create an alt. Leveling up an alt is a lot of fun. Almost feels like I am playing the game again, for the first time.
I am almost ashamed to post in this thread. For all the words 80% of what I see here sounds like nothing more than self justification and rationalizing by veterans who's only interest is to scalp the noobs and the cash players. I feel like Newt Gingrich at a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> rights seminar.
Funny wasn't it? In just 2 short days when the FOFW dropped ALL of the reasonably priced T2 gear just disappeared from the AH to be replaced by 300k to 500k versions of the same thing. and scalpers say "Oh the devs were concerned about the deflation of T2 prices....yada yada yada..new 60s should be made to earn....yada...yada...yada"
HOCK AND PHOOEY ...Since I've got a CW whose ready to upgrade from 2 and 2 T1 I've been watching High Vizier pieces in the AH for 3 weeks. LOL ..Watching it tick down from 4 days to 3 days to... to.... and then get posted again. I cheer every time a piece times out and loses 30 - 50 K for the scalper that posted it. I would doubt that more than 4 or 5 pieces have actually sold. But its coming down... Oh yeah a lot of it is under 300k now. Does that gold taste good King Midas..... WOOT!!!
Now while you all keep sitting here and patting yourselves on the back you can't ignore the fact that not many people really want or need this gear because the dungeons are mostly empty. Its just not worth my time. I make a better income with crafting, Leadership, and farming boss heavy foundry missions. If I was foolish enough to pay the market price, I could buy two sets of T2,or go get it myself, but I'm allergic to wasting time and money. The que system is a train wreck. The teambuilding proc screws up without a lot of players waiting, so almost none of the new 60s really have a chance to get their feet wet. Nobody in LFT wants them without an 11k gear score. Players like me have better things to do. That doesn't leave you with much of a market.
Now I didn't break the endgame. I'm not happy about the state its in, or the fact that just when new players are getting to the content that should draw them in to stay they are choosing to leave in frustration. Most players don't like the endgame anymore, so they don't play it. So would one or more of you kindly explain to me how you can be so smug about BOP in spite of what it has cost the game.
Maybe I'd better go put my knee boots on, its fixin to get deep.
Ditto on watching AH, did the same thing.
As far as the dungeon queues I can only speak of my experience and they are working the same now as they were before the BOP. It was not uncommon to sit in a queue through the entire DD timer. I learned in leveling the harder the dungeon/fight the less you see in loot. Sometimes the end chest doesn’t pop at all and I don’t recall a single piece of loot that made me think the loot was worth another visit let alone ever made me giddy. I am not talking T2 dungeons (they at least ‘might’ drop something to make you giddy) but all the dungeons. You have to run them for only the learning factor or for the simple fun of em, expect no worth wild reward. That’s not appealing for long term and a bad marketing plan for generating traffic IMO.
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nearlydiamondMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 105Bounty Hunter
edited September 2013
Sorry but the sudden switch to BoP was stupid. The simplest approach would simply have been to have accepted the emergent gaming that happened and implemented more stringent policies for T3 or the newer ares. This would have preserved the true value of a product which is the player base who were in there running stuff and having fun, and despite flooding the market with items for sale, made the game accessible to new players and also offered viable alternatives to tring out new armour combinations and varying your character rather than all the hideously expensive real-life money options that cryptic offer. All that is needed is a couple more tiers of gear that require at least T2 to access or upgrade from and this would have provided a novel solution that built upon the 2 million or so players they got who were having fun. The BoP option instead alienated their most loyal fans and we now have ghost ship of a guild again and it's pathetic. Overnight cryptic shat on the chance to do something different instead of something fresh and exciting and now instead of this being the game that everyone is talking about it's the holding one we're playing while we hope that others like Elder scrolls does the job better.
Without the option to exploit, and push what's there in game to do things that perhaps weren't intended, but which were great fun and created a new emergent, boundary pushing state of gameplay that rewarded with a real sense of achievement and the loot, the lack of imagination and variety in the content is exposed. In essence the changes to BoP amongst other late tweaks are forcing the play base to have fun only in the way that cryptic want and it's ignoring the beauty of what was happening. You can't alienate your player base and expect nothing to happen. This was a pathetic money grabbing decision. Blue skies thinking would have built on it. This is a missed opportunity.
I have no problem with some gear being bop, but what happened was overkill.
Not being able to give gear to your alts for example.
The main impact of this, as has been covered above, is that beta, open beta and launch pre bop patch it was gear free for all.
New players have a huge mountain to climb. People already fully geared are obviously not going to have a problem with bop.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited September 2013
My personal opinion is that (after the shard merge, after some kind of shared bank is implemented to allow sharing such items) account-bound items would be a sensible compromise. It would allow more flexibility in deciding what to do with your loot without re-flooding the market.
I have no problem with some gear being bop, but what happened was overkill.
Not being able to give gear to your alts for example.
The main impact of this, as has been covered above, is that beta, open beta and launch pre bop patch it was gear free for all.
New players have a huge mountain to climb. People already fully geared are obviously not going to have a problem with bop.
And yet people constantly complained that it was too easy to get end game gear. And, it was.
There are still plenty of cheap purples on the AH that can be used to run T2s. It's more about teamwork and skill than phat gearz0rz. It can still be done just fine. Especially if you join a decent guild.
I have no problem with some gear being bop, but what happened was overkill.
Not being able to give gear to your alts for example.
The main impact of this, as has been covered above, is that beta, open beta and launch pre bop patch it was gear free for all.
New players have a huge mountain to climb. People already fully geared are obviously not going to have a problem with bop.
Bingo.
Also since Cryptic does not plan to release new level caps during MOD2 or MOD3 this won't change. Players that are well geared will continue to have a massive advantage to newer players attempting to gear up unable to make the 10's of millions of AD necessary to get enchants.
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taurnilelensarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The simple reason why BOP just had to be implemented was the massive and continued deflation of purple quality loot items.
.I definitely notice a massive drop in people playing and my guild for example has gone from between 20 to 30 people online at all times to between 1 and 3.
I don't know what shard you play on but the one I am on I've seen prices on T1 and T2 gears go up 10 fold, with a few exceptions.
Yes there has been a drop off on the player base, that has nothing to do with delvs and BOP.
Everyone leveled up to 60 way to fast, realized that to be on top you got to throw serious amounts of real money at the game.
All the little bugs that has not been fixed and continue to plague the game some of them from before launch. It give the game a cheap feel to it. Every time they declare they are fixing bugs. New ones pop up and old ones come back. Boss Splats bigger than what is visually there best example of that. Everytime they say they are fixing PvP the Nerf Ax comes out on the PvE side. The guild I'm with has went from 70 online everyday, we are multinational, to about 12 to 15 on a good day 8 on a bad day.
If anyone on TV tells you they can make life fair they are liars!! :rolleyes:
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
In essence, Bop killed the difficulty slider. Before everyone could earn ad and with a little focus, could buy gear to enable them to complete t1/t2 dungeons, ie they could use gear to compensate for poor skill or lack of experience. People think buying cheap t1/t2 gear eliminated the end game? It enabled players to participate in it. Everyone ran dungeons (vets and newbs) especially during dd, and everyone was earning 10-30k a day, and if you were lucky and got a good drop, maybe 100-200k for a t2 piece. New players learned from vets while making ad to buy the gear they wanted (by selling the gear they didnt want). Everything cost less but everyone was earning ad, and the goal posts for new characters to gear up were much easier to reach.
With bop experienced players no longer run t1/t2 dungeons. Your best hope is to end up in a party full of vets running on their alts, so while the gs isnt there the experience still is. 99% of the time its just a bunch of new players who lack both exp and gear. Amd the dungeons are too hard for them to complete. There is no longer a difficulty slider of accessable gear or veteran players showing them the ropes.
24k / day isnt new, it has always been the controlling factor to how much ad is generated in the economy. The only difference from before patch and now is that ad is worth less. So your making twice as much ad now as you were before? Ok but everything in the ah costs 10x as much so how are you benefitting?
also for the half a dozen people in this thread arguing that bop change as implemented was a good thing, i'm sure 6-7 peoples opinion trumps the 65-70% of the playerbase who quit playing because of it (and the ramifications caused by it).
I don't know what shard you play on but the one I am on I've seen prices on T1 and T2 gears go up 10 fold, with a few exceptions.
You either do not understand the meaning of something phrased in the passed tense in regard to a present tense event or do not understand what deflation means.
I meant that prices deflated(went down) BEFORE the BOP changes, resulting in BOP being implemented as a quick fix to make them rise. The fact that they are now as you say up to 10 times more expensive than before the changes was the entire point I was trying to make and just a reiteration of what I said.
I would hope that someone who spends time to make a quoted response would actually understand or take equal time to read what he is responding to.
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gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You either do not understand the meaning of something phrased in the passed tense in regard to a present tense event or do not understand what deflation means.
I meant that prices deflated(went down) BEFORE the BOP changes, resulting in BOP being implemented as a quick fix to make them rise. The fact that they are now as you say up to 10 times more expensive than before the changes was the entire point I was trying to make and just a reiteration of what I said.
I would hope that someone who spends time to make a quoted response would actually understand or take equal time to read what he is responding to.
Maybe people would read your posts more carefully if what you said matters as much as this:
Right NOW , one of the prime game hours, there are a mere 869 players in Dragon PE. a month ago there would be nearly 3000 at this hour, even on a weeknight.
I have been logged in for an hour and scrolling back through chat even have seen ZERO prize drop messages.
We all know what this means. And its the only reason that counts. Scalpers greed looks to be running second place to consumer choice here. So are ya'll gonna peel off some of that cyber loot to help the game company pay the bills ?
The fact that there are less players running dungeons now and that maybe many have left the game does not indicate that BoP was a bad idea. It only shows that many players are unwilling or unable to adapt to this change. And there might be other reasons for a drop in the player base. At least if you put any value to the crying that happened because of the nerfs to the classes, many players might have left or are playing less because of that.
But back to the dungeons and BoP:
To be honest, people who say that they stoped running T2 dungeons after the patch because it is not worth their time, just don't know what they are talking about because dungeons still offer a great opportunity to make a lot of AD. I, and it seems many other players, make at least as much, if not more AD since the change. And there is no trick or ancient voodoo behind it.
I admit, neither before nor after the patch did i farm dungeons like a madman. I never exploited my way through 12 dungeons a day and i guess people who "played" like this got maybe hit hard by the change. But if you are running maybe 2 or 3 dungeons a day, mostly when you fancy it, it is still very much worth it.
Prices for pretty much every purple item went up quite a bit (a good thing inho), in many cases the price for salvaging is higher then the price you got in the AH before. Many drops weren't even worth it to put in the AH before and went straight to the vendor. Hardly any drop from a boss (unless it's blue but this is a seperate problem) sells for less than 10000 ad, many for more then 50000 and a few (set pieces) for really high prices. Lets say that each dungeon drops 3 purples from the 3 bosses. Running 10 dungeons will give you on average 6 items to sell (on top maybe set items from the chest that you need or stuff from the chest to salvage).
Even if you have bad luck with the loot, the 6 purples you will get you a pretty nice income because the worthless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is gone. To make 500k in a week without even farming, just by doing a few dungeons a day, is no problem. Before people did multiple dungeons a day and many runs were worthless. The moment you got just a belt from the chest the income wouldn't even compensate for the lost pots and kits. To get a set piece (before patch) would take multiple runs and even some set pieces (the less desireable ones) wouldn't be worth much. Each class had pretty much one set that was really worth something and the chance to get that set piece was very slim and the vast majority of the other loot was hardly worth it to pick up.
Now pretty much everything is worth something and there is plenty to sell if you keep running dungeons. Enough income to be able to afford most of the things you want.
To make a long story short, just stop crying and adapt. Just run dungeons, sell loot and be happy. The lack of opportunity to make AD is just percieved, not real.
BTW: I would also prefer a BoA change, mainly because ofte a group setup requires a certain class and it would be nice to be able to help out your own chars. On top, the transition would have been easier for a lot of people who can't seem to handle this change.
Yes, every item in this game should be bind to account, with a massive personal account bank that can be upgraded and an even more massive guild bank that can be ultra upgraded.
Why in Sune are you ignoring the needs of your players? No one enjoys mailing shards and things around to a shard mule etc...
You can make every item bind on pickup if you make everything also bound to account, I think the game would survive.
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gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The fact that there are less players running dungeons now and that maybe many have left the game does not indicate that BoP was a bad idea.
yada yada yada
To make a long story short, just stop crying and adapt. Just run dungeons, sell loot and be happy. The lack of opportunity to make AD is just percieved, not real.
There. I just cut out all the bulky text here because it supports neither the premise or conclusion, which was all I left. The rest was just you preaching to the choir. Hmmm.. Not enough people left in game for a choir, how about a barbershop quartet... 1...2.... Oh well.... Do people preach to barbershop quartets? But you get my drift, yes?
Maybe you like the fact that this last update is running off players, but I ask you to pardon much of the rest of the player base, and hopefully someone in the PWE/Cryptic business office, for not agreeing with you. FTP is all well an good but it isn't charity and someone has to pay the bills.
But since you have postulated that it is not bad, then everyone who doesn't agree with you should just shut up sit down and run dungeons, just like you do.... So :
NO... I refuse. This is a game. A leisure time activity. And you will not sit there and tell me how to spend my time in it, no matter how much money you and the scalpers could make from me. Many others feel the same as myself, or I wouldn't be in here on my soapbox talking.
BOP is just another brick in the wall preventing player choice in NWO. Its part of the whole FOFW package that has displeased so many players. The content itself wasn't so bad, but the stuff that came with it has wreaked havoc. Happy players stay, unhappy players leave. Good for you and a some other players, because it suits your play style ..... bad for business.
There is far too much diversity of player style and activity in this game to restrict myself to your very narrow view. I find it just as satisfying to marshal material and assets for crafting, schedule Leadership runs, explore some of the great foundry content, and keep one sharp eye on the markets for opportunities there. I have actually had a very good week profit wise.. seems there are a lot of absentee auctioneers out there right now and the smart buyer can make a tidy profit. Yeah the T2 gear would be nice, but I'm not gonna let changes in the rather boring endgame content here ruin my day. Not everyone feels the same, though and its hurting the whole game.
Wake up. Look around you. Get your head out of the dungeon and maybe you will change your view.
There are still plenty of cheap purples on the AH that can be used to run T2s.
IMO the biggest problem with this (very few defenders of BOP seem to mention this) is that a new player will still have to enchant that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear before they can even try to get your tier gear. Then they have to enchant their new gear with new enchants because it is too costly to reuse the ones they have. That is not cheap. Granted, they do not have to go nuts on the enchants for the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, but they do have to at least put something half decent into it. That is a loss of money. In all reality a new player will be stuck funneling all of their AD into armor for quite a while.
Another thing very few defenders of BOP seem to mention is that a new player trying to gear up will not be making a fortune selling drops until they have the gear themselves. Granted, you don't NEED T2 gear to run T2 dungeons, but it will be hard to put a T2 dungeon on farm status when you are wearing crappy purples and slotting even crappier enchants.
A better way to control the amount of Tier gear hitting the AH would have been to limit the number of times a player can open a DD chest in a day/DD event. They could have implemented keys like they use in Feywild and each character could get one or two a day(or one per DD event). They could have even sold extra keys. Make it so free keys must be used that day (or during that DD event if you get 1 key per event) and then more people would be running dungeons during every DD event. The prices would automatically go up because there would be a lot less of each item in circulation. And anyone who wants to farm can still run dungeons anytime they want and shoot for boss drops or buy more keys.
Im reading this topic and sometimes im really surprised how much some (advanced i suppose) players are fixed on their point of view.
For me - newbie lvl 60 cleric BoP was real disaster, and it came in really bad moment. Right now im trying to run my first epic dungeons, and you know what ? Its fail after fail. I have family, life, work and duties, i CANNOT spend all day playing, one hour max two - its all what i can do per day in my free time. This is also reason why i wont join any guild, im casual player and sometimes dont play for even week or so, in such situation i have no other choice than dungeons in PUG's. How such tries end - read couple lines above. Each time random team is filled with pretty newbie players, undergeared, rushing alone in pack of mobs where they die (and complain why cleric wasnt able to refill their health vanishing in 2 or 3 seconds) or zerging bosses as their most advanced strategy. Generally players who dont know what to do or either dont know how to play their own char, but i dont blame them, maybe they are also just casuals plaing for fun with one difference - i think they generall dont give s.it about learning to be more effective and dont communicate at all. We DONT have veterans in pugs in T1, no anybody who know what to do, how to use some more advanced tactics or how teamplay looks like. Just think what it does mean for squishy class like cleric or wizard. You say "adapt" ? Adapt to to WHAT ? I tried to run Epic Mad dragon 12 times already to get one purple piece of BASIC T1 SET, 9 times pug's wasnt able to defeat even first boss because lack of skill, gear tactics or/and teamplay, and none of those 12 runs was finished with success. It is what i have to adapt for ? I think you - well geared and advanced players have no idea what is going on now in low level gameplay..
Now look at prices in AH right now, you say "cheap purple gear" ? look how much i need to pay for "cheap" purple what is just little better than utter garbage. Check how much i need to pay for half descent enchants. How poor geared lvl60 have to earn this amount of AD if its not possible to successful run even simple dungeon and income in this case = 0 ?
Maybe for some of you BoP was real gift of the heavens, but for me - casual player who is making first steps as lvl 60 its like kick directly in face. I really liked this game, i just loved dungeons, but right now i feel like trying to smash a wall with my head. I cannot get purples from dungeons because my pugs are getting masssacred each time, and i cannot buy purples instead to have better chances because - quess what, i cannot earn so much Ad if im not able to run dungeons !
So please - you advanced well geared players, try to see also our point of view before you say how great is Bop and all what came with it.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Right NOW , one of the prime game hours, there are a mere 869 players in Dragon PE. a month ago there would be nearly 3000 at this hour, even on a weeknight.
That's probably because most are out doing dailies in Sharandar or Festival, lol. I don't even bother going to PE these days unless I have to.
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gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Maybe for some of you BoP was real gift of the heavens, but for me - casual player who is making first steps as lvl 60 its like kick directly in face. I really liked this game, i just loved dungeons, but right now i feel like trying to smash a wall with my head. I cannot get purples from dungeons because my pugs are getting masssacred each time, and i cannot buy purples instead to have better chances because - quess what, i cannot earn so much Ad if im not able to run dungeons !
So please - you advanced well geared players, try to see also our point of view before you say how great is Bop and all what came with it.
Players like you are why I am posting in this thread. I can't fix the DDs, I don't know what's gonna come down in todays patch. But I do know ways that LVL 60 cleric at your gear level can make money, because I've been where you are.
If you look on the AH, you will quickly notice that LVL 6 enhancements sell for between 10k and 40k ADs. Now these don't drop in missions, but at your level many 4s DO drop. It takes ay least 16 4's to make a 6. You will get mixed results.. more silveries than darks, but they add up.
Go to the Foundry. keyboard 'L' will take you to the headline page. click on catalog. Look to see how the missions are rated and note the ones with the most reviews and times run. There is some very good content here, and most of these missions you can run in a single play session like you described. You will get better drops (more lvl4 enhancements) from boss heavy missions. Since you are playing a DC, you will farm slower than many players and will get killed a few times trying. You will average 4 to 8 enhancement drops on the better missions
When you get useful blue drops, and there is NO LOOT ROLE since you are solo, or can pick up less expensive purple on the AH use them.. with some of the lvl4 enhancements that you farm, but keep most of them. Combine them when you can.. be prepared for fusion failures. I don't waste wards on anything under a level 6 fusion. But usually, on average you will get a lvl6 enhancement for every 20 to 25 4's
I think that you will find this much more rewarding than the DDs - I know I do. You can still team on the skirmishes when you want to. Teams are better, fewer faceplants, and when they happen they are funny. Do your Sharandar basic mishes so you can get to the Master of the Hunt Skirmish. Its always busy. and your team Is much less likely to let you down.
I know its sort of a baby step approach, but once you find which Foundry missions you like best I think you will stop spinning your wheels and have fun. You can always come back to DDs later once you gear up and the content isn't as broken as it is now. I'll bet within a month you are ready to move on. And I'll also bet that you will STILL come back to these missions. I'm not going to tell you my favorite Foundry content. You will find your own. You will also hit some turkeys just keep truckin.
GL.....Don't pay these F N scalpers more than 50k for T1 or 200k for T2.
GL
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gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Lol sounds like someone is just bad... How do you think the first players to run T2's did it? was it "impossible" for them to do without already have T2 lol? T1 is more than sufficient to run a T2 dungeon, player skill is the only problem as a large portion of players seem to be terrible.
I have run 4 DD's since patch and 2 out of 4 gave me the exact T2 piece I needed, if you still have characters to gear and don't want to just buy it off the AH this saves huge time. Vigilant boots = 575k, 2nd FH I got them.
Yes prices are high, but they are just as high when you're on the selling end. When you run a T2 and get even a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> drop from 1st 2 bosses it can be worth as much as 100k, while T2 is around 500k+. So it doesn't take any longer to make the same amount of AD, it's just that prices are inflated right now.
Not to mention enchant/ward prices have pretty much stayed the same so if you already have your armor and just need enchants its 3x easier to make enough money for enchants.
Lol sounds like someone is just bad... How do you think the first players to run T2's did it? was it "impossible" for them to do without already have T2 lol? T1 is more than sufficient to run a T2 dungeon, player skill is the only problem as a large portion of players seem to be terrible.
I'm sorry that you have missed the patch notes over these few months. The first players to run T2 dungeons had an easier time of it. I am not saying they weren't skilled, they had to find where to toss adds, exploits, and basically explore, but Cryptic has steadily made the dungeons more difficult, adding more adds, buffing adds, putting up walls etc. I am mostly geared now and find the dungeons a lot easier, but I had a lot of difficulty before i was able to BUY my gear.
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited September 2013
Sorry, but I don't think fewer people are in game because BoP was implemented. I think it has more to do with Fury of Feywild being so limited in scope. Some folks log in and spend about 20 minutes doing what they can to advance through Sharandar, then log off now. What BoP did was keep people from cheaply gearing up their alts. Whether this is a good or bad thing for your is dependent on your point of view so there will be differing opinions. Purple items increased in the AH because supply is lower, and people have to increase prices on some of the lesser items to make it worth not salvaging. But that isn't the end of the world.
If you are recently 60 and are having trouble running dungeons, then here is my tip to gear up. Play pvp and get a full set of t1 purple gear in about a hardcore day of playing, or maybe 2-3 casual days, OR, hit up the AH and instead of searching for epic items, search for blue items. I have helped many members in my guild "shop" for items and they spent about 3-4k AD and made their toon very viable. Also the pegasus seal vendor usually has one or two items for each class that is very viable. TRs and CWs have rings that provide a large amount of regeneration come to mind. Achieving a 10k GS really isnt hard, and can be done in about a week or two if you know what you are doing, or have someone helping you who knows what they are doing. Cloak Tower and Cragmire Crypts are ridiculously easy and they drop unicorn seals which if you farm, you can buy t1 purple items.
The real issue is the refinement cap. It isnt hard to reach it once your character is established. This really only has an effect later on when you are trying to grind AD to purchase the most expensive of upgrades, like rank 8+ enchants, and greater or prefect weapon/armor enhancements. Getting "clean" AD is challenging. I find myself farming cragmire crypts for greater rings of health (which sell for like 40-50k on the dragon server for some reason). There are ways, just got to find them.
The bottom line is loot still drops that is not bind on pickup. Only the chest items are now, but now you get to select what you want which I think is great for your initial gear up. The easy fix is to increase the frequency of t1 and t2 armor pieces that drop off the final boss. No more rings and necklaces and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, that should drop off the mini bosses. But one, random class, t1 or t2 head, arms, feet, or chest piece guaranteed to drop off the boss that is not bind on pickup that everyone can roll for would provide incentive for folks to do dungeons outside of the dungeon delve event, and also find the balance between the bind on pickup issues that everyone talks about. Aside from the GG coins you get, I tend to make a decent amount of cashing just getting items from the fardelver dungeon as the boss drops a t1 purple item each time. A normal 4-5x run per event, usually yields me at least one, if not 2 items to sell on the AH.
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greeniewolf0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 83
edited September 2013
All of the players that push for bop should be banned for exploiting the economy. the only reason they wanted bop is because they were losing their ability to grossly overcharge and rip off the rest of the community. Since the implementation of BOP entire guilds have left the game, casual players have given up on dungeons, and the entire economy has gotten far worse because now everyone has to save every penny for t1 and t2 gear and has cut way back on other purchases such as dye packs, bags, etc.
The supposed "arguments" for bop do not hold water, and are all about the greed and desperation to maintain a social/economic class by a minority of players and moderators.
Out of the few of my friends and former guild mates that do still play all of us have drastically cut back on spending in this game, both in terms of cash shop and in terms of ad purchases. Why drop money into a game that is now completely stacked for a small minority that now does everything they can to keep other players from being able to get the gear needed to play on their level?
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited September 2013
Sorry, bs. Now you have to farm/earn your gear instead of just buying your toon. Just like a real MMO. The best gear should be reserved for those who actually ran the dungeon and earned it. The problem is everyone thinks that t1 and t2 gear is just average stuff now because so much of it was in the market. Getting "purple" gear on your toon is still easy. Getting T2 "purple" gear on your toon is also still easy. Getting gear for the purpose of selling is harder. That says nothing about catering to a small minority and has nothing to do about "greed and desperation to maintain a social/economic class". I mean seriously, its a game. Quit trying to make it out like there is some game politics coming into play. If you say your guild has quit, yeah tell me something new. Guilds were dying off before the BoP thing because of limited end-game. You have no facts saying nobody is buying dye packs or bags either unless you work for cryptic. If you are buying t1 or t2 gear, then you are wasting money anyways, so YOUR argument doesnt hold water about everyone saving every penny up to buy gear, or forcing folks to purchase zen to buy it. Much easier to farm your specific set now.
All of the players that push for bop should be banned for exploiting the economy. the only reason they wanted bop is because they were losing their ability to grossly overcharge and rip off the rest of the community. Since the implementation of BOP entire guilds have left the game, casual players have given up on dungeons, and the entire economy has gotten far worse because now everyone has to save every penny for t1 and t2 gear and has cut way back on other purchases such as dye packs, bags, etc.
The supposed "arguments" for bop do not hold water, and are all about the greed and desperation to maintain a social/economic class by a minority of players and moderators.
Out of the few of my friends and former guild mates that do still play all of us have drastically cut back on spending in this game, both in terms of cash shop and in terms of ad purchases. Why drop money into a game that is now completely stacked for a small minority that now does everything they can to keep other players from being able to get the gear needed to play on their level?
Sorry, too rational for the internet. Please go away.
Sorry, but I don't think fewer people are in game because BoP was implemented. I think it has more to do with Fury of Feywild being so limited in scope. Some folks log in and spend about 20 minutes doing what they can to advance through Sharandar, then log off now. What BoP did was keep people from cheaply gearing up their alts. Whether this is a good or bad thing for your is dependent on your point of view so there will be differing opinions. Purple items increased in the AH because supply is lower, and people have to increase prices on some of the lesser items to make it worth not salvaging. But that isn't the end of the world.
If you are recently 60 and are having trouble running dungeons, then here is my tip to gear up. Play pvp and get a full set of t1 purple gear in about a hardcore day of playing, or maybe 2-3 casual days, OR, hit up the AH and instead of searching for epic items, search for blue items. I have helped many members in my guild "shop" for items and they spent about 3-4k AD and made their toon very viable. Also the pegasus seal vendor usually has one or two items for each class that is very viable. TRs and CWs have rings that provide a large amount of regeneration come to mind. Achieving a 10k GS really isnt hard, and can be done in about a week or two if you know what you are doing, or have someone helping you who knows what they are doing. Cloak Tower and Cragmire Crypts are ridiculously easy and they drop unicorn seals which if you farm, you can buy t1 purple items.
The real issue is the refinement cap. It isnt hard to reach it once your character is established. This really only has an effect later on when you are trying to grind AD to purchase the most expensive of upgrades, like rank 8+ enchants, and greater or prefect weapon/armor enhancements. Getting "clean" AD is challenging. I find myself farming cragmire crypts for greater rings of health (which sell for like 40-50k on the dragon server for some reason). There are ways, just got to find them.
The bottom line is loot still drops that is not bind on pickup. Only the chest items are now, but now you get to select what you want which I think is great for your initial gear up. The easy fix is to increase the frequency of t1 and t2 armor pieces that drop off the final boss. No more rings and necklaces and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, that should drop off the mini bosses. But one, random class, t1 or t2 head, arms, feet, or chest piece guaranteed to drop off the boss that is not bind on pickup that everyone can roll for would provide incentive for folks to do dungeons outside of the dungeon delve event, and also find the balance between the bind on pickup issues that everyone talks about. Aside from the GG coins you get, I tend to make a decent amount of cashing just getting items from the fardelver dungeon as the boss drops a t1 purple item each time. A normal 4-5x run per event, usually yields me at least one, if not 2 items to sell on the AH.
A couple replies to your theory. First why are people just doing Sharandar then logging off, instead of doing that 20 mins then doing a, now worthless, DD event? Yes module 1 is a disappointment and that contributes to logging off but BoP is also a large contributer. Second yes purple items skyrocketed in price on AH, but now prices are dropping because no one has AD to buy them. Third take another look at those blue rings, cryptic nerfed those as well. Seeing as that I don't really feel like reading the rest of your post I'll finish with your mention of the refinement cap. the refinement cap is only a problem because it is so difficult to get items to sell for refined AD on the AH. and salvage items, BoP items, give RoughAD
Comments
I read the word ‘Veterans’ tossed out a lot. What/who is a Veteran? A special group who has played since day one of closed Beta? Since open Beta? Founders? Certain number of hours IG? I have no idea what or who they are, I wonder who these people are that speak for all Veterans. I’ve played since open Beta, am a Founder and played almost daily since open Beta. But I must not be a veteran because I sure did not give these folks the ok to speak for me and I disagree with a good portion of them.
And OMG! I am one of those lazy*** as fallenhawk calls me because I have traded Zen for ADs. Well take me outside and beat me with a stick will ya. Oh the shame!
You sir or ma’am, do not know the meaning of the word if you call trading Zen for ADs as being a lazy***. I generally stop reading a writer when they show juvenile behavior of playground name calling that should have been left behind with adolescences. This however made me laugh considering Lazy generally means someone who is averse or disinclined to work. Yet working is what gives me a few bucks to toss at game on a regular basis even though it limits my time to ‘be lazy’ sitting around playing a game for hours on in. Learn a word before applying it to people.
Back on topic, I would prefer bound to account. What toon you run in a group varies and you sometimes have to switch to the toon that makes the group dynamics work. Bound to account still keeps farmers at bay, if that was the intent, while allowing players the benefit on running toons which optimize the group for success and hopeful completion. It would also reinforce making ‘the group’ the priority vs. the need of one.
A few days ago, I created a second character because, to be honest, it's a little boring and sometimes unrewarding to always play my main character, especially after the daily refine limit is reached.
I have been doing low lvl pvp with my new cleric alt. More fun and different (in a good way) than pvp with my lvl 60 CW. Also enjoying running through all the quests again.
If you have reached the daily refine limit, I strongly encourage you to create an alt. Leveling up an alt is a lot of fun. Almost feels like I am playing the game again, for the first time.
Ditto on watching AH, did the same thing.
As far as the dungeon queues I can only speak of my experience and they are working the same now as they were before the BOP. It was not uncommon to sit in a queue through the entire DD timer. I learned in leveling the harder the dungeon/fight the less you see in loot. Sometimes the end chest doesn’t pop at all and I don’t recall a single piece of loot that made me think the loot was worth another visit let alone ever made me giddy. I am not talking T2 dungeons (they at least ‘might’ drop something to make you giddy) but all the dungeons. You have to run them for only the learning factor or for the simple fun of em, expect no worth wild reward. That’s not appealing for long term and a bad marketing plan for generating traffic IMO.
Without the option to exploit, and push what's there in game to do things that perhaps weren't intended, but which were great fun and created a new emergent, boundary pushing state of gameplay that rewarded with a real sense of achievement and the loot, the lack of imagination and variety in the content is exposed. In essence the changes to BoP amongst other late tweaks are forcing the play base to have fun only in the way that cryptic want and it's ignoring the beauty of what was happening. You can't alienate your player base and expect nothing to happen. This was a pathetic money grabbing decision. Blue skies thinking would have built on it. This is a missed opportunity.
Not being able to give gear to your alts for example.
The main impact of this, as has been covered above, is that beta, open beta and launch pre bop patch it was gear free for all.
New players have a huge mountain to climb. People already fully geared are obviously not going to have a problem with bop.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
And yet people constantly complained that it was too easy to get end game gear. And, it was.
There are still plenty of cheap purples on the AH that can be used to run T2s. It's more about teamwork and skill than phat gearz0rz. It can still be done just fine. Especially if you join a decent guild.
Bingo.
Also since Cryptic does not plan to release new level caps during MOD2 or MOD3 this won't change. Players that are well geared will continue to have a massive advantage to newer players attempting to gear up unable to make the 10's of millions of AD necessary to get enchants.
I don't know what shard you play on but the one I am on I've seen prices on T1 and T2 gears go up 10 fold, with a few exceptions.
Yes there has been a drop off on the player base, that has nothing to do with delvs and BOP.
Everyone leveled up to 60 way to fast, realized that to be on top you got to throw serious amounts of real money at the game.
All the little bugs that has not been fixed and continue to plague the game some of them from before launch. It give the game a cheap feel to it. Every time they declare they are fixing bugs. New ones pop up and old ones come back. Boss Splats bigger than what is visually there best example of that. Everytime they say they are fixing PvP the Nerf Ax comes out on the PvE side. The guild I'm with has went from 70 online everyday, we are multinational, to about 12 to 15 on a good day 8 on a bad day.
With bop experienced players no longer run t1/t2 dungeons. Your best hope is to end up in a party full of vets running on their alts, so while the gs isnt there the experience still is. 99% of the time its just a bunch of new players who lack both exp and gear. Amd the dungeons are too hard for them to complete. There is no longer a difficulty slider of accessable gear or veteran players showing them the ropes.
24k / day isnt new, it has always been the controlling factor to how much ad is generated in the economy. The only difference from before patch and now is that ad is worth less. So your making twice as much ad now as you were before? Ok but everything in the ah costs 10x as much so how are you benefitting?
also for the half a dozen people in this thread arguing that bop change as implemented was a good thing, i'm sure 6-7 peoples opinion trumps the 65-70% of the playerbase who quit playing because of it (and the ramifications caused by it).
You either do not understand the meaning of something phrased in the passed tense in regard to a present tense event or do not understand what deflation means.
I meant that prices deflated(went down) BEFORE the BOP changes, resulting in BOP being implemented as a quick fix to make them rise. The fact that they are now as you say up to 10 times more expensive than before the changes was the entire point I was trying to make and just a reiteration of what I said.
I would hope that someone who spends time to make a quoted response would actually understand or take equal time to read what he is responding to.
Maybe people would read your posts more carefully if what you said matters as much as this:
Right NOW , one of the prime game hours, there are a mere 869 players in Dragon PE. a month ago there would be nearly 3000 at this hour, even on a weeknight.
I have been logged in for an hour and scrolling back through chat even have seen ZERO prize drop messages.
We all know what this means. And its the only reason that counts. Scalpers greed looks to be running second place to consumer choice here. So are ya'll gonna peel off some of that cyber loot to help the game company pay the bills ?
I'd laugh but it would hurt.
But back to the dungeons and BoP:
To be honest, people who say that they stoped running T2 dungeons after the patch because it is not worth their time, just don't know what they are talking about because dungeons still offer a great opportunity to make a lot of AD. I, and it seems many other players, make at least as much, if not more AD since the change. And there is no trick or ancient voodoo behind it.
I admit, neither before nor after the patch did i farm dungeons like a madman. I never exploited my way through 12 dungeons a day and i guess people who "played" like this got maybe hit hard by the change. But if you are running maybe 2 or 3 dungeons a day, mostly when you fancy it, it is still very much worth it.
Prices for pretty much every purple item went up quite a bit (a good thing inho), in many cases the price for salvaging is higher then the price you got in the AH before. Many drops weren't even worth it to put in the AH before and went straight to the vendor. Hardly any drop from a boss (unless it's blue but this is a seperate problem) sells for less than 10000 ad, many for more then 50000 and a few (set pieces) for really high prices. Lets say that each dungeon drops 3 purples from the 3 bosses. Running 10 dungeons will give you on average 6 items to sell (on top maybe set items from the chest that you need or stuff from the chest to salvage).
Even if you have bad luck with the loot, the 6 purples you will get you a pretty nice income because the worthless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is gone. To make 500k in a week without even farming, just by doing a few dungeons a day, is no problem. Before people did multiple dungeons a day and many runs were worthless. The moment you got just a belt from the chest the income wouldn't even compensate for the lost pots and kits. To get a set piece (before patch) would take multiple runs and even some set pieces (the less desireable ones) wouldn't be worth much. Each class had pretty much one set that was really worth something and the chance to get that set piece was very slim and the vast majority of the other loot was hardly worth it to pick up.
Now pretty much everything is worth something and there is plenty to sell if you keep running dungeons. Enough income to be able to afford most of the things you want.
To make a long story short, just stop crying and adapt. Just run dungeons, sell loot and be happy. The lack of opportunity to make AD is just percieved, not real.
BTW: I would also prefer a BoA change, mainly because ofte a group setup requires a certain class and it would be nice to be able to help out your own chars. On top, the transition would have been easier for a lot of people who can't seem to handle this change.
Why in Sune are you ignoring the needs of your players? No one enjoys mailing shards and things around to a shard mule etc...
You can make every item bind on pickup if you make everything also bound to account, I think the game would survive.
There. I just cut out all the bulky text here because it supports neither the premise or conclusion, which was all I left. The rest was just you preaching to the choir. Hmmm.. Not enough people left in game for a choir, how about a barbershop quartet... 1...2.... Oh well.... Do people preach to barbershop quartets? But you get my drift, yes?
Maybe you like the fact that this last update is running off players, but I ask you to pardon much of the rest of the player base, and hopefully someone in the PWE/Cryptic business office, for not agreeing with you. FTP is all well an good but it isn't charity and someone has to pay the bills.
But since you have postulated that it is not bad, then everyone who doesn't agree with you should just shut up sit down and run dungeons, just like you do.... So :
NO... I refuse. This is a game. A leisure time activity. And you will not sit there and tell me how to spend my time in it, no matter how much money you and the scalpers could make from me. Many others feel the same as myself, or I wouldn't be in here on my soapbox talking.
BOP is just another brick in the wall preventing player choice in NWO. Its part of the whole FOFW package that has displeased so many players. The content itself wasn't so bad, but the stuff that came with it has wreaked havoc. Happy players stay, unhappy players leave. Good for you and a some other players, because it suits your play style ..... bad for business.
There is far too much diversity of player style and activity in this game to restrict myself to your very narrow view. I find it just as satisfying to marshal material and assets for crafting, schedule Leadership runs, explore some of the great foundry content, and keep one sharp eye on the markets for opportunities there. I have actually had a very good week profit wise.. seems there are a lot of absentee auctioneers out there right now and the smart buyer can make a tidy profit. Yeah the T2 gear would be nice, but I'm not gonna let changes in the rather boring endgame content here ruin my day. Not everyone feels the same, though and its hurting the whole game.
Wake up. Look around you. Get your head out of the dungeon and maybe you will change your view.
IMO the biggest problem with this (very few defenders of BOP seem to mention this) is that a new player will still have to enchant that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear before they can even try to get your tier gear. Then they have to enchant their new gear with new enchants because it is too costly to reuse the ones they have. That is not cheap. Granted, they do not have to go nuts on the enchants for the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, but they do have to at least put something half decent into it. That is a loss of money. In all reality a new player will be stuck funneling all of their AD into armor for quite a while.
Another thing very few defenders of BOP seem to mention is that a new player trying to gear up will not be making a fortune selling drops until they have the gear themselves. Granted, you don't NEED T2 gear to run T2 dungeons, but it will be hard to put a T2 dungeon on farm status when you are wearing crappy purples and slotting even crappier enchants.
A better way to control the amount of Tier gear hitting the AH would have been to limit the number of times a player can open a DD chest in a day/DD event. They could have implemented keys like they use in Feywild and each character could get one or two a day(or one per DD event). They could have even sold extra keys. Make it so free keys must be used that day (or during that DD event if you get 1 key per event) and then more people would be running dungeons during every DD event. The prices would automatically go up because there would be a lot less of each item in circulation. And anyone who wants to farm can still run dungeons anytime they want and shoot for boss drops or buy more keys.
Im reading this topic and sometimes im really surprised how much some (advanced i suppose) players are fixed on their point of view.
For me - newbie lvl 60 cleric BoP was real disaster, and it came in really bad moment. Right now im trying to run my first epic dungeons, and you know what ? Its fail after fail. I have family, life, work and duties, i CANNOT spend all day playing, one hour max two - its all what i can do per day in my free time. This is also reason why i wont join any guild, im casual player and sometimes dont play for even week or so, in such situation i have no other choice than dungeons in PUG's. How such tries end - read couple lines above. Each time random team is filled with pretty newbie players, undergeared, rushing alone in pack of mobs where they die (and complain why cleric wasnt able to refill their health vanishing in 2 or 3 seconds) or zerging bosses as their most advanced strategy. Generally players who dont know what to do or either dont know how to play their own char, but i dont blame them, maybe they are also just casuals plaing for fun with one difference - i think they generall dont give s.it about learning to be more effective and dont communicate at all. We DONT have veterans in pugs in T1, no anybody who know what to do, how to use some more advanced tactics or how teamplay looks like. Just think what it does mean for squishy class like cleric or wizard. You say "adapt" ? Adapt to to WHAT ? I tried to run Epic Mad dragon 12 times already to get one purple piece of BASIC T1 SET, 9 times pug's wasnt able to defeat even first boss because lack of skill, gear tactics or/and teamplay, and none of those 12 runs was finished with success. It is what i have to adapt for ? I think you - well geared and advanced players have no idea what is going on now in low level gameplay..
Now look at prices in AH right now, you say "cheap purple gear" ? look how much i need to pay for "cheap" purple what is just little better than utter garbage. Check how much i need to pay for half descent enchants. How poor geared lvl60 have to earn this amount of AD if its not possible to successful run even simple dungeon and income in this case = 0 ?
Maybe for some of you BoP was real gift of the heavens, but for me - casual player who is making first steps as lvl 60 its like kick directly in face. I really liked this game, i just loved dungeons, but right now i feel like trying to smash a wall with my head. I cannot get purples from dungeons because my pugs are getting masssacred each time, and i cannot buy purples instead to have better chances because - quess what, i cannot earn so much Ad if im not able to run dungeons !
So please - you advanced well geared players, try to see also our point of view before you say how great is Bop and all what came with it.
That's probably because most are out doing dailies in Sharandar or Festival, lol. I don't even bother going to PE these days unless I have to.
Players like you are why I am posting in this thread. I can't fix the DDs, I don't know what's gonna come down in todays patch. But I do know ways that LVL 60 cleric at your gear level can make money, because I've been where you are.
If you look on the AH, you will quickly notice that LVL 6 enhancements sell for between 10k and 40k ADs. Now these don't drop in missions, but at your level many 4s DO drop. It takes ay least 16 4's to make a 6. You will get mixed results.. more silveries than darks, but they add up.
Go to the Foundry. keyboard 'L' will take you to the headline page. click on catalog. Look to see how the missions are rated and note the ones with the most reviews and times run. There is some very good content here, and most of these missions you can run in a single play session like you described. You will get better drops (more lvl4 enhancements) from boss heavy missions. Since you are playing a DC, you will farm slower than many players and will get killed a few times trying. You will average 4 to 8 enhancement drops on the better missions
When you get useful blue drops, and there is NO LOOT ROLE since you are solo, or can pick up less expensive purple on the AH use them.. with some of the lvl4 enhancements that you farm, but keep most of them. Combine them when you can.. be prepared for fusion failures. I don't waste wards on anything under a level 6 fusion. But usually, on average you will get a lvl6 enhancement for every 20 to 25 4's
I think that you will find this much more rewarding than the DDs - I know I do. You can still team on the skirmishes when you want to. Teams are better, fewer faceplants, and when they happen they are funny.
I know its sort of a baby step approach, but once you find which Foundry missions you like best I think you will stop spinning your wheels and have fun. You can always come back to DDs later once you gear up and the content isn't as broken as it is now. I'll bet within a month you are ready to move on. And I'll also bet that you will STILL come back to these missions. I'm not going to tell you my favorite Foundry content. You will find your own. You will also hit some turkeys
GL.....Don't pay these F N scalpers more than 50k for T1 or 200k for T2.
GL
173 in festival... insignificant. didn't check sharandar
They exploited.
I'm sorry that you have missed the patch notes over these few months. The first players to run T2 dungeons had an easier time of it. I am not saying they weren't skilled, they had to find where to toss adds, exploits, and basically explore, but Cryptic has steadily made the dungeons more difficult, adding more adds, buffing adds, putting up walls etc. I am mostly geared now and find the dungeons a lot easier, but I had a lot of difficulty before i was able to BUY my gear.
If you are recently 60 and are having trouble running dungeons, then here is my tip to gear up. Play pvp and get a full set of t1 purple gear in about a hardcore day of playing, or maybe 2-3 casual days, OR, hit up the AH and instead of searching for epic items, search for blue items. I have helped many members in my guild "shop" for items and they spent about 3-4k AD and made their toon very viable. Also the pegasus seal vendor usually has one or two items for each class that is very viable. TRs and CWs have rings that provide a large amount of regeneration come to mind. Achieving a 10k GS really isnt hard, and can be done in about a week or two if you know what you are doing, or have someone helping you who knows what they are doing. Cloak Tower and Cragmire Crypts are ridiculously easy and they drop unicorn seals which if you farm, you can buy t1 purple items.
The real issue is the refinement cap. It isnt hard to reach it once your character is established. This really only has an effect later on when you are trying to grind AD to purchase the most expensive of upgrades, like rank 8+ enchants, and greater or prefect weapon/armor enhancements. Getting "clean" AD is challenging. I find myself farming cragmire crypts for greater rings of health (which sell for like 40-50k on the dragon server for some reason). There are ways, just got to find them.
The bottom line is loot still drops that is not bind on pickup. Only the chest items are now, but now you get to select what you want which I think is great for your initial gear up. The easy fix is to increase the frequency of t1 and t2 armor pieces that drop off the final boss. No more rings and necklaces and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, that should drop off the mini bosses. But one, random class, t1 or t2 head, arms, feet, or chest piece guaranteed to drop off the boss that is not bind on pickup that everyone can roll for would provide incentive for folks to do dungeons outside of the dungeon delve event, and also find the balance between the bind on pickup issues that everyone talks about. Aside from the GG coins you get, I tend to make a decent amount of cashing just getting items from the fardelver dungeon as the boss drops a t1 purple item each time. A normal 4-5x run per event, usually yields me at least one, if not 2 items to sell on the AH.
The supposed "arguments" for bop do not hold water, and are all about the greed and desperation to maintain a social/economic class by a minority of players and moderators.
Out of the few of my friends and former guild mates that do still play all of us have drastically cut back on spending in this game, both in terms of cash shop and in terms of ad purchases. Why drop money into a game that is now completely stacked for a small minority that now does everything they can to keep other players from being able to get the gear needed to play on their level?
Sorry, too rational for the internet. Please go away.
A couple replies to your theory. First why are people just doing Sharandar then logging off, instead of doing that 20 mins then doing a, now worthless, DD event? Yes module 1 is a disappointment and that contributes to logging off but BoP is also a large contributer. Second yes purple items skyrocketed in price on AH, but now prices are dropping because no one has AD to buy them. Third take another look at those blue rings, cryptic nerfed those as well. Seeing as that I don't really feel like reading the rest of your post I'll finish with your mention of the refinement cap. the refinement cap is only a problem because it is so difficult to get items to sell for refined AD on the AH. and salvage items, BoP items, give RoughAD
Why do people keep saying this? It's entirely untrue. You can still buy your gear on the AH.