Will did i say "my way is better" ??nope
I already change alot of things in my build ,But still there stuff i think it right ,like Decrease 10% mitin from traget against my Enounter or Heath by 5% on Unstoppable i choose Mition really
Well yes, you did say that. For example "Restoring Strick give you same heal point with more effect so i think it better that my idea"
You are of course free to accept or ignore any advice. But since you seem to be reaching out and people are willing to respond, why not at least try it? GWF can be a very solid class with a lot of utility. Unfortunately, many players do not play them very well. This sometimes seems to be because of a thought process that goes like this: "I have the biggest weapon in the game AND I have a skill that can make me the biggest character in the game so I SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST AND STRONGEST! ARGH! HULK SMASH!"
When they find out it doesn't work out that way, some work on improving their build, others demand nerfs to other classes. In general, demanding another class be weakened isn't a good way to go.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
The PVP gear is not the best gear in the game and is basically the first level of epic gear for level 60.
Although the GG gear on my chilling cloud CW is helping me clean up in the troll slaying event in the Midsummer festival. I'd still rather than a High Vizier set, but that's bloody expensive!
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Clearly he is a lost cause and would rather cry and argue. Thanks to everyone trying to help him have a viable GWF. Sigh, I honestly fear for the future of this game because so many of the criers who want nerfs are like him. It is possible to have a viable GWF that would be good at PVE and PVP. The suggestions here are how players make GWFs a viable class. The PVP gear is not the best gear in the game and is basically the first level of epic gear for level 60.
I understand getting people to try different things can be frustrating but such a post isn't constructive at all. Change is hard for most people. The fact that he put up his build for scrutiny is a positive start. When you stick to facts or well argued inference by observation, you put up some good posts. Please don't lower your standards. It's hard enough to have any meaningful discussions around here as it is.
GWFs got hit hard with the changes in the last patch. I agree that Sentinel is still viable but the changes to survivability really hurt Destroyer and Instigator builds. There is also an ongoing issue with the community in general who have been convinced that GWF are not viable for PvE no matter how basic the dungeon is. In my opinion, a large part of the Sentinel GWF's success prior to the nerf had nothing to do with the class mechanics anyway. It was high rank enchants. Without Tenebrous stacks or a large gear advantage, Sentinels hit like wet tissue paper. However, high rank enchants are a money spinner for PWE / Cryptic so when faced with a choice of loss of income or taking a dump on arguably the least popular class in the game, the choice wasn't difficult. I have no way to prove this of course and I doubt, if it were true, that the devs would come out and admit it.
Ggyu, I'd also like to see a gear screenshot please.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
When they find out it doesn't work out that way, some work on improving their build, others demand nerfs to other classes. In general, demanding another class be weakened isn't a good way to go.
You are correct because it might lead to a nerf of all the classes in the game. This means the class the individual is using will be nerfed along with the class he or she wants nerfed. This is done in the name of balance and hurts the game more than helps it. The criers should be ridiculed and it should be made clear to the devs that the issue is not the game being unbalanced. To bad this game has too many criers and complainers in it who refuse to learn and would rather ruin the game for everyone else.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I understand getting people to try different things can be frustrating but such a post isn't constructive at all. Change is hard for most people. The fact that he put up his build for scrutiny is a positive start. When you stick to facts or well argued inference by observation, you put up some good posts. Please don't lower your standards. It's hard enough to have any meaningful discussions around here as it is.
Trs also got hit hard by the last nerf. If you read the post rabbinicus made that I quoted you will see I am not the first one to come to this conclusion. Valid suggestions to help him improve were made and he argued against them instead of trying then. Lower my standards? HA! No, stating the obvious in my opinion yes. The fact of the matter is he put up his build for scrutiny, suggestions were made, and he argued against the suggestions instead of trying them. There is no point in trying to help someone who will not help themselves and would rather complain. In my opinion, his arguing against the suggestions and dismissing them instead of trying them makes the discussion meaningless. GWFs can be formidable opponents in PVP against TRs and the large majority of them use unstoppable to survive. Reading his posts shows he argued against using unstoppable. Using enchantments to boost recovery to reduce cool down time/recharge time and AP gain is a viable solution to his complaint about the cool down/recharge times. He argued against that as well. The opinion I stated in the post you quoted still stands and just states the obvious in my opinion. Players begging for nerfs instead of learning to play have hurt the game significantly already and will continue to do so. In my opinion the future of this game is rather bad if the devs continue to listen to them.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Trs also got hit hard by the last nerf. If you read the post rabbinicus made that I quoted you will see I am not the first one to come to this conclusion. Valid suggestions to help him improve were made and he argued against them instead of trying then. Lower my standards? HA! No, stating the obvious in my opinion yes. The fact of the matter is he put up his build for scrutiny, suggestions were made, and he argued against the suggestions instead of trying them. There is no point in trying to help someone who will not help themselves and would rather complain. In my opinion, his arguing against the suggestions and dismissing them instead of trying them makes the discussion meaningless. GWFs can be formidable opponents in PVP against TRs and the large majority of them use unstoppable to survive. Reading his posts shows he argued against using unstoppable. Using enchantments to boost recovery to reduce cool down time/recharge time and AP gain is a viable solution to his complaint about the cool down/recharge times. He argued against that as well. The opinion I stated in the post you quoted still stands and just states the obvious in my opinion. Players begging for nerfs instead of learning to play have hurt the game significantly already and will continue to do so. In my opinion the future of this game is rather bad if the devs continue to listen to them.
...and resorting to the same tactic of shouting down any opinion other than your own makes it harder for the devs to distinguish misinformation from genuine concern. I'm not saying you don't have a point but your delivery was inflammatory. There are better ways to say "I don't think you know the full story" than "you're a lost cause, L2P". Rabbinicus' delivery was much better.
TRs are still more than functional in both PvP and PvE. A lot of the nerfs were fair compromises. Had the devs gone through with their initial nerfs I'd be telling a different tale. If anything, what happened with the TR is further vindication of my previous point that we should be trying to discuss things rather than attempting to shout down differing opinions. When the voice coming from the players is consistent and rational, the devs listen.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
...and resorting to the same tactic of shouting down any opinion other than your own makes it harder for the devs to distinguish misinformation from genuine concern. I'm not saying you don't have a point but your delivery was inflammatory. There are better ways to say "I don't think you know the full story" than "you're a lost cause, L2P". Rabbinicus' delivery was much better.
//Response to imanrshol's hypocrisy:
Inflammatory? If you consider my delivery to be inflammatory then yours with *lower your standards" is inflammatory. You should not talk about shouting down any opinion other than your own because you are doing it yourself. Stop being a hypocrite and practice what you preach. The post you tried to shout down imanrshol was a response to Rabbinicus and was not a response to you or directed at you. You were not required to shout down my opinion. I simply flat out stated my opinion and you wanted to shout it down saying it was low and inflammatory. You have no idea what is inflammatory. I will not sugar coat it for anyone at all and it is not necessary for me to sugar coat it. Again, it was your choice to respond to my opinion and shout it down. The definition of hypocrisy is the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety.
Imanrshol should look in the mirror before accusing people of being inflammatory and shouting down other people's opinions. Imanrshol is just a hypocrite that should stfu when it comes to making hypocritcal statements. <-That is inflammatory and only done because clearly imanrshol wanted to start an argument by attacking my opinion. The original post imanrshol attacked was not a response to imanrshol or to anything related to a comment made by imanrshol. Imanrshol had the choice to not respond to it or to be hypocritical. It could have been left at the original post saying ggyu was a lost cause and yet imanrshol wanted to drag it out and make hypocritical statements. Frankly imanrshol, PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH. Everyone has an opinion and they can voice it anyway they want. Everyone has a choice to ignore it or respond to it. Honestly anyone who goes about preaching about inflammatory and shouting down other people's opinions should consider what they are doing themselves. <-Final response to imanrshol's attempt to shout down my opinion and I do not plan on making any more on this subject. I bet imanrshol will respond and will attempt to drag it on even more. There is no point to drag it on further because I have made my opinions perfectly clear and will probably not respond to any more of the hypocritical posts made by imanrshol on the subject of my lost cause post.
//Subject of the thread. (Please stay on subject instead of leaving it. I will try to stay on subject.)
TRs are still more than functional in both PvP and PvE. A lot of the nerfs were fair compromises. Had the devs gone through with their initial nerfs I'd be telling a different tale. If anything, what happened with the TR is further vindication of my previous point that we should be trying to discuss things rather than attempting to shout down differing opinions. When the voice coming from the players is consistent and rational, the devs listen.
Trs damage was significantly nerfed in the two *balancing* updates if you bother to do the research. In my opinion a TR is lucky if he or she can take down a properly played and built GWF in PVP. Enough nerfs have occurred already to this game and significantly hurt it. TRs are meant to do heavy damage to single targets and yet their dps was severally nerfed. I researched the patches and even listed the patches were TRs were nerfed heavily in response to the misinformation ggyu was spreading. It is true every class was nerfed including GWFs.
I still stand by my opinion that there is no point in trying to help ggyu if he is going to read the suggestions and dismiss them thinking his way is better. Rabbinicus voiced this opinion first, granted it was more sugar coated, and I agreed with it in my way which was harsher. In my opinion a player who refuses to try suggestions that might help with the damage done by the nerfs and calls for more nerfs should be treated harshly. In my opinion a player that spreads misinformation to try to get nerfs should also be treated harshly. Did ggyu have misinformation in his original post in this thread? Yes. Did ggyu dismiss and argue against suggestions that were made in an attempt to help? Yes. Unstoppable is one of the main abilities GWFs use to survive and can even take on more than one player at a time in PVP. TRs are as good as dead if they are faced with 2v1 and in some cases 1vs1 odds and the other players are just as heavily geared and well played.
Players calling for nerfs instead of learning to play or refusing to learn will be the death of this game. Again, this is my opinion and you can choose to respond to it or not. Please do not make hypocritical statements about shouting down other people's opinions when you are doing just that.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
[cenarios where Unstoppable doesn't bugg out.]
a badly geared Tr will own a badly geared gwf in pvp
badly geared Tr should own a medium geared gwf in pvp
end game gear , things turn around a bit. (some nazty Sentinel builds out there).
but endgame gear seems to be the GF that stands tall but hey, I guess it's mostly about who you'r playing with and how it's all played.
untill/if unstoppable is actually fixed, I'd say then they can start to recalibrate the class to really find it's purpose (pve). it has it's purpose in pvp already.
If you catch that rogue and get him down, he 'should' stay down ;D
I used to own rogues, if I cought them on my gwf pre'uppdate.. now .... I'm not even going to try lol.
but there are well geared rogues out there too who will own and one hitt you still with ease and know how to play.
though as a sidenote, I've noticed that more often than not, (on my rogue)that I tend to be able to break out of the gwf CC chain? after the last uppdate? dodge, and have my way with him ( ^.^ )
I Don't bother with pvp on my Gwf anymore(unstop. bugg's 50% of the time is just too annoying for my taste.), so not really going to comment much on how the cc chain is working these day's in pvp, and I'll let others who are more stubborn than me tell that tale.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
[cenarios where Unstoppable doesn't bugg out.]
a badly geared Tr will own a badly geared gwf in pvp
badly geared Tr should own a medium geared gwf in pvp
end game gear , things turn around a bit. (some nazty Sentinel builds out there).
but endgame gear seems to be the GF that stands tall but hey, I guess it's mostly about who you'r playing with and how it's all played.
untill/if unstoppable is actually fixed, I'd say then they can start to recalibrate the class to really find it's purpose (pve). it has it's purpose in pvp already.
If you catch that rogue and get him down, he 'should' stay down ;D
I used to own rogues, if I cought them on my gwf pre'uppdate.. now .... I'm not even going to try lol.
but there are well geared rogues out there too who will own and one hitt you still with ease and know how to play.
though as a sidenote, I've noticed that more often than not, (on my rogue)that I tend to be able to break out of the gwf CC chain? after the last uppdate? dodge, and have my way with him ( ^.^ )
I Don't bother with pvp on my Gwf anymore(unstop. bugg's 50% of the time is just too annoying for my taste.), so not really going to comment much on how the cc chain is working these day's in pvp, and I'll let others who are more stubborn than me tell that tale.
The bug is the tab bug correct? or is it the bug where unstoppable bugs out when the GWF gets controlled? Either way unstoppable is sometimes broken. I have also seen when fighting some GWFs that unstoppable seems to be always active. It does appear to be the nasty endgame sentinel builds that are most memorable because I have seen them take on three opponents and survive.
I have seen the tab bug occur with the TR's stealth. The stealth meter refills but stays grayed out like it is disabled. It usually takes the TR being killed or leaving pvp for it to fix itself. The devs should concentrate on fixing the bugs instead of nerfing the classes.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
How was my delivery inflammatory? I complemented your previous contributions and by resorting to petty name-calling you had lowered your standards. In logic, ad-hominem (attacking the person - like name-calling) invalidates the argument as a logical fallacy. Would you have me believe that adopting such a position improves your arguments standing? Does this not lower the standard of your response?
My delivery was polite, not aggressive or insulting. I see now that attacking the person and being an arrogant, angry little prick (<--- there's something inflammatory and insulting for you) is your usual style of response to those with a differing point of view. Such a response is typical or those too lazy, ignorant or stupid to argue a point on its merits in my experience - feel free to score as many points off that paragraph as you like. I don't intend to address your follow-up response/s. At the very least, when you call me a hypocrite this time, it'll actually hold some weight.
I have made arguments in line with what I've seen, what I believe and what I know to be true. You appear to think an argument is a negative thing. If you don't want your opinion to be challenged, don't offer one champ. Challenging (or attacking as you put it) a statement that I don't agree with (or opinion) is the point of argument / discussion. It is the way I (and society as a whole) determines whether an opinion (or hypothesis) has merit or is unfounded. As I have said to others, your opinion holds no more weight within this community than mine or anyone else so expect others to challenge it. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be, how many times you repeat it or how much you embolden it, capitalize it or change its appearance.
Your grasp of the tone of what you write is clearly lacking if you don't think you are aggressive in your responses - hence my call that you were shouting down differing opinions. The post above (#100) does little to sway my opinion. To me, it reads like a tantrum. Use of bold lettering is commonly understood to be aggressive in nature and can be considered shouting. Over capitalization is another way. If you do not know of or accept the norms of western writing, that's your problem but don't think that I'll be the last person to hold you to account for such things.
I'll eagerly await your response, which will undoubtedly be filled with more of the same garbage reasoning, absolutes, aggression and the very misinformation and misunderstanding that you point to as evidence that you somehow hold the upper hand. It's been fun.
@ggyu - I'd still like to discuss what you are doing and how to combat the TR.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How was my delivery inflammatory? I complemented your previous contributions and by resorting to petty name-calling you had lowered your standards. In logic, ad-hominem (attacking the person - like name-calling) invalidates the argument as a logical fallacy. Would you have me believe that adopting such a position improves your arguments standing? Does this not lower the standard of your response?
My delivery was polite, not aggressive or insulting. I see now that attacking the person and being an arrogant, angry little prick (<--- there's something inflammatory and insulting for you) is your usual style of response to those with a differing point of view. Such a response is typical or those too lazy, ignorant or stupid to argue a point on its merits in my experience - feel free to score as many points off that paragraph as you like. I don't intend to address your follow-up response/s. At the very least, when you call me a hypocrite this time, it'll actually hold some weight.
I have made arguments in line with what I've seen, what I believe and what I know to be true. You appear to think an argument is a negative thing. If you don't want your opinion to be challenged, don't offer one champ. Challenging (or attacking as you put it) a statement that I don't agree with (or opinion) is the point of argument / discussion. It is the way I (and society as a whole) determines whether an opinion (or hypothesis) has merit or is unfounded. As I have said to others, your opinion holds no more weight within this community than mine or anyone else so expect others to challenge it. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be, how many times you repeat it or how much you embolden it, capitalize it or change its appearance.
Your grasp of the tone of what you write is clearly lacking if you don't think you are aggressive in your responses - hence my call that you were shouting down differing opinions. The post above (#100) does little to sway my opinion. To me, it reads like a tantrum. Use of bold lettering is commonly understood to be aggressive in nature and can be considered shouting. Over capitalization is another way. If you do not know of or accept the norms of western writing, that's your problem but don't think that I'll be the last person to hold you to account for such things.
I'll eagerly await your response, which will undoubtedly be filled with more of the same garbage reasoning, absolutes, aggression and the very misinformation and misunderstanding that you point to as evidence that you somehow hold the upper hand. It's been fun.
@ggyu - I'd still like to discuss what you are doing and how to combat the TR.
Its actually funny the hypocrite responded. His delivery was inflammatory, insulting, and aggressive from the beginning. The first post he attacked was a response agreeing with rabbinicus's opinion. The response was in no way linked to him and he decided to be aggressive by trolling it on his own. That is a clear troll move to start a useless argument. He even talks about logic yet it would have been more logical to not troll my response to rabbinicus, a response that agreed with rabbinicus's opinion, and start a useless argument. He even accuses me of being an "arrogant little prick" when he was an "arrogant little prick" to start this useless argument in the first place. He became a hypocrite because he did exactly what he preached against. Seriously, is he full of himself or what?? Preaching stuff and not practicing it. What a pathetic hypocrite. First he falsely accuse me of saying stuff that is inflammatory and then says stuff that is inflammatory. Hypocritical move one. Next he shout down my opinion that its a waste of time and then preach to me about shouting other people's opinions down. Hypocrite move number two right there. Just a pathetic arrogant delusional hypocritical individual with his head in the clouds. He should come off his high horse and take his head out the clouds. He only started this argument because he is so full of himself and has his head in the clouds or to troll. Trolling is probably the exact reason imanrshol started this useless argument.
He had a choice to ignore my response to rabbinicus like an adult but he decided to troll. It was a response to rannincus he felt he had a right to troll and act like a pretend moderator. He probably did this because he is so full of himself. I was only really aggressive after he first trolled me. He is not a moderator and does not have the power to hold me to account. He is just another user that trolls by pretending to be a moderate and trying to hold other users to account. He should stop being a wannabe moderator and stop the trolling. He should go sit in the corner for being a wannabe moderator and troll. Thanks for the laughs imanrshol and making it so obvious the type of person you are which is a troll. Seriously, trolling someone because you did not like the response they gave someone else is a low move in my opinion. I can understand if they responded to you but my original post that imanrshol first trolled and decided to be aggressive was a response to rabbinicus not imanrshol. Sigh, there was no reason for this argument and the only reason it seems it was started was that imanrshol wanted to pretend to be a moderator to troll. There is no reason for an argument and never was a reason. He just started trolling me because he did not like a response that was made to someone else. He could have been an adult and left it alone instead of pretending to be a moderator like a troll. He should be held to account for pretending to be a fake moderator. tsk tsk..... Clearly imanrshol is a lowly troll that takes pleasure out of pretending to be a moderator and trolling other people. tsk tsk...
Guess my opinion does hold weight despite what he says or logicially he would not have started this useless argument over it. But wait it was rabbinicus's opinion I was agreeing with in the response he decided to troll to start this useless argument. The only reason he would troll my response and not respond to rabbinicus is to troll by pretending to be a moderator. His opinion now holds negative weight because his own response show he is just a troll. ROFL! He really had no reason to start trolling.
Note: ggyu opened a new thread that does not start off attacking TRs and spreading misinformation. Granted I enjoy reading the hypocrite imanrshol's posts but this thread is now dead and a waste of my time. I will not be responding anymore to imanrshol because there is no reason for an argument and never was a reason. He just took upon himself to troll. I bet he will respond to this post trying to continue to troll. Sigh, trolls. tsk tsk.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Are you really making the point that GWF's are weaker than TR's at all gear levels? My 11.2k Sent GWF with Rank 6's beats BiS everything TR's 99% of the time. I lost 1 time, to a fellow guildmate that has P. vorpal, BiS everything, and 4-5 Gtene's, and it's because I stood in his DF cause I thought it wouldn't do anything =P and then I let him get me too low and didn't use avalanche quick enough to counter his shocking.
That is the only 1v1 I've ever lost, to any class, with any spec... GWF's are the easiest class to make super OP in PvP
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Are you really making the point that GWF's are weaker than TR's at all gear levels? My 11.2k Sent GWF with Rank 6's beats BiS everything TR's 99% of the time. I lost 1 time, to a fellow guildmate that has P. vorpal, BiS everything, and 4-5 Gtene's, and it's because I stood in his DF cause I thought it wouldn't do anything =P and then I let him get me too low and didn't use avalanche quick enough to counter his shocking.
That is the only 1v1 I've ever lost, to any class, with any spec... GWF's are the easiest class to make super OP in PvP
ggyu opened a new thread and this time does not attack TRs or spread misinformation. You might be helpful there.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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ch33t0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 9Arc User
Tr Highest Dps Pvp
Best build : Impact shoot ,Impossible to catch ,Lashing blade
(Wow stun and push back from hide) ,(Immune with dodge from hide ,awesome),(Almost been 1 hit ,nice)
Daily : Shocking Execution , Courage Breaker
(1 Hit daily for sure on High hp players ) ,( 90% Dmg decrease ,just wow )
At wills : Duelist's furry , cloud of steel
(nice immune and drag on players on 3rd hit with high dmg ), ( keep throw blades from hide with high dmg)
Beside high high deflect chance.
That the TR most op Weapon on Neverwinter
Why something like that on here ?? immune ,hide ,high dmg and high deflect
The point of something like that ??make people play Tr only ??
Comments
Well yes, you did say that. For example "Restoring Strick give you same heal point with more effect so i think it better that my idea"
You are of course free to accept or ignore any advice. But since you seem to be reaching out and people are willing to respond, why not at least try it? GWF can be a very solid class with a lot of utility. Unfortunately, many players do not play them very well. This sometimes seems to be because of a thought process that goes like this: "I have the biggest weapon in the game AND I have a skill that can make me the biggest character in the game so I SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST AND STRONGEST! ARGH! HULK SMASH!"
When they find out it doesn't work out that way, some work on improving their build, others demand nerfs to other classes. In general, demanding another class be weakened isn't a good way to go.
Although the GG gear on my chilling cloud CW is helping me clean up in the troll slaying event in the Midsummer festival.
I understand getting people to try different things can be frustrating but such a post isn't constructive at all. Change is hard for most people. The fact that he put up his build for scrutiny is a positive start. When you stick to facts or well argued inference by observation, you put up some good posts. Please don't lower your standards. It's hard enough to have any meaningful discussions around here as it is.
GWFs got hit hard with the changes in the last patch. I agree that Sentinel is still viable but the changes to survivability really hurt Destroyer and Instigator builds. There is also an ongoing issue with the community in general who have been convinced that GWF are not viable for PvE no matter how basic the dungeon is. In my opinion, a large part of the Sentinel GWF's success prior to the nerf had nothing to do with the class mechanics anyway. It was high rank enchants. Without Tenebrous stacks or a large gear advantage, Sentinels hit like wet tissue paper. However, high rank enchants are a money spinner for PWE / Cryptic so when faced with a choice of loss of income or taking a dump on arguably the least popular class in the game, the choice wasn't difficult. I have no way to prove this of course and I doubt, if it were true, that the devs would come out and admit it.
Ggyu, I'd also like to see a gear screenshot please.
You are correct because it might lead to a nerf of all the classes in the game. This means the class the individual is using will be nerfed along with the class he or she wants nerfed. This is done in the name of balance and hurts the game more than helps it. The criers should be ridiculed and it should be made clear to the devs that the issue is not the game being unbalanced. To bad this game has too many criers and complainers in it who refuse to learn and would rather ruin the game for everyone else.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Trs also got hit hard by the last nerf. If you read the post rabbinicus made that I quoted you will see I am not the first one to come to this conclusion. Valid suggestions to help him improve were made and he argued against them instead of trying then. Lower my standards? HA! No, stating the obvious in my opinion yes. The fact of the matter is he put up his build for scrutiny, suggestions were made, and he argued against the suggestions instead of trying them. There is no point in trying to help someone who will not help themselves and would rather complain. In my opinion, his arguing against the suggestions and dismissing them instead of trying them makes the discussion meaningless. GWFs can be formidable opponents in PVP against TRs and the large majority of them use unstoppable to survive. Reading his posts shows he argued against using unstoppable. Using enchantments to boost recovery to reduce cool down time/recharge time and AP gain is a viable solution to his complaint about the cool down/recharge times. He argued against that as well. The opinion I stated in the post you quoted still stands and just states the obvious in my opinion. Players begging for nerfs instead of learning to play have hurt the game significantly already and will continue to do so. In my opinion the future of this game is rather bad if the devs continue to listen to them.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
the POINT, what is it??????
...and resorting to the same tactic of shouting down any opinion other than your own makes it harder for the devs to distinguish misinformation from genuine concern. I'm not saying you don't have a point but your delivery was inflammatory. There are better ways to say "I don't think you know the full story" than "you're a lost cause, L2P". Rabbinicus' delivery was much better.
TRs are still more than functional in both PvP and PvE. A lot of the nerfs were fair compromises. Had the devs gone through with their initial nerfs I'd be telling a different tale. If anything, what happened with the TR is further vindication of my previous point that we should be trying to discuss things rather than attempting to shout down differing opinions. When the voice coming from the players is consistent and rational, the devs listen.
//Response to imanrshol's hypocrisy:
Inflammatory? If you consider my delivery to be inflammatory then yours with *lower your standards" is inflammatory. You should not talk about shouting down any opinion other than your own because you are doing it yourself. Stop being a hypocrite and practice what you preach. The post you tried to shout down imanrshol was a response to Rabbinicus and was not a response to you or directed at you. You were not required to shout down my opinion. I simply flat out stated my opinion and you wanted to shout it down saying it was low and inflammatory. You have no idea what is inflammatory. I will not sugar coat it for anyone at all and it is not necessary for me to sugar coat it. Again, it was your choice to respond to my opinion and shout it down. The definition of hypocrisy is the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety.
Imanrshol should look in the mirror before accusing people of being inflammatory and shouting down other people's opinions. Imanrshol is just a hypocrite that should stfu when it comes to making hypocritcal statements. <-That is inflammatory and only done because clearly imanrshol wanted to start an argument by attacking my opinion. The original post imanrshol attacked was not a response to imanrshol or to anything related to a comment made by imanrshol. Imanrshol had the choice to not respond to it or to be hypocritical. It could have been left at the original post saying ggyu was a lost cause and yet imanrshol wanted to drag it out and make hypocritical statements. Frankly imanrshol, PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH. Everyone has an opinion and they can voice it anyway they want. Everyone has a choice to ignore it or respond to it. Honestly anyone who goes about preaching about inflammatory and shouting down other people's opinions should consider what they are doing themselves. <-Final response to imanrshol's attempt to shout down my opinion and I do not plan on making any more on this subject. I bet imanrshol will respond and will attempt to drag it on even more. There is no point to drag it on further because I have made my opinions perfectly clear and will probably not respond to any more of the hypocritical posts made by imanrshol on the subject of my lost cause post.
//Subject of the thread. (Please stay on subject instead of leaving it. I will try to stay on subject.)
Trs damage was significantly nerfed in the two *balancing* updates if you bother to do the research. In my opinion a TR is lucky if he or she can take down a properly played and built GWF in PVP. Enough nerfs have occurred already to this game and significantly hurt it. TRs are meant to do heavy damage to single targets and yet their dps was severally nerfed. I researched the patches and even listed the patches were TRs were nerfed heavily in response to the misinformation ggyu was spreading. It is true every class was nerfed including GWFs.
I still stand by my opinion that there is no point in trying to help ggyu if he is going to read the suggestions and dismiss them thinking his way is better. Rabbinicus voiced this opinion first, granted it was more sugar coated, and I agreed with it in my way which was harsher. In my opinion a player who refuses to try suggestions that might help with the damage done by the nerfs and calls for more nerfs should be treated harshly. In my opinion a player that spreads misinformation to try to get nerfs should also be treated harshly. Did ggyu have misinformation in his original post in this thread? Yes. Did ggyu dismiss and argue against suggestions that were made in an attempt to help? Yes. Unstoppable is one of the main abilities GWFs use to survive and can even take on more than one player at a time in PVP. TRs are as good as dead if they are faced with 2v1 and in some cases 1vs1 odds and the other players are just as heavily geared and well played.
Players calling for nerfs instead of learning to play or refusing to learn will be the death of this game. Again, this is my opinion and you can choose to respond to it or not. Please do not make hypocritical statements about shouting down other people's opinions when you are doing just that.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
For a TR? It's the tip of the blade used to perforate an enemy.
This weak humor has been brought to you by The Partnership for A Funnier Forum.
a badly geared Tr will own a badly geared gwf in pvp
badly geared Tr should own a medium geared gwf in pvp
end game gear , things turn around a bit. (some nazty Sentinel builds out there).
but endgame gear seems to be the GF that stands tall
untill/if unstoppable is actually fixed, I'd say then they can start to recalibrate the class to really find it's purpose (pve). it has it's purpose in pvp already.
If you catch that rogue and get him down, he 'should' stay down ;D
I used to own rogues, if I cought them on my gwf pre'uppdate.. now .... I'm not even going to try lol.
but there are well geared rogues out there too who will own and one hitt you still with ease and know how to play.
though as a sidenote, I've noticed that more often than not, (on my rogue)that I tend to be able to break out of the gwf CC chain? after the last uppdate? dodge, and have my way with him ( ^.^ )
I Don't bother with pvp on my Gwf anymore(unstop. bugg's 50% of the time is just too annoying for my taste.), so not really going to comment much on how the cc chain is working these day's in pvp, and I'll let others who are more stubborn than me tell that tale.
The bug is the tab bug correct? or is it the bug where unstoppable bugs out when the GWF gets controlled? Either way unstoppable is sometimes broken. I have also seen when fighting some GWFs that unstoppable seems to be always active. It does appear to be the nasty endgame sentinel builds that are most memorable because I have seen them take on three opponents and survive.
I have seen the tab bug occur with the TR's stealth. The stealth meter refills but stays grayed out like it is disabled. It usually takes the TR being killed or leaving pvp for it to fix itself. The devs should concentrate on fixing the bugs instead of nerfing the classes.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
How was my delivery inflammatory? I complemented your previous contributions and by resorting to petty name-calling you had lowered your standards. In logic, ad-hominem (attacking the person - like name-calling) invalidates the argument as a logical fallacy. Would you have me believe that adopting such a position improves your arguments standing? Does this not lower the standard of your response?
My delivery was polite, not aggressive or insulting. I see now that attacking the person and being an arrogant, angry little prick (<--- there's something inflammatory and insulting for you) is your usual style of response to those with a differing point of view. Such a response is typical or those too lazy, ignorant or stupid to argue a point on its merits in my experience - feel free to score as many points off that paragraph as you like. I don't intend to address your follow-up response/s. At the very least, when you call me a hypocrite this time, it'll actually hold some weight.
I have made arguments in line with what I've seen, what I believe and what I know to be true. You appear to think an argument is a negative thing. If you don't want your opinion to be challenged, don't offer one champ. Challenging (or attacking as you put it) a statement that I don't agree with (or opinion) is the point of argument / discussion. It is the way I (and society as a whole) determines whether an opinion (or hypothesis) has merit or is unfounded. As I have said to others, your opinion holds no more weight within this community than mine or anyone else so expect others to challenge it. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be, how many times you repeat it or how much you embolden it, capitalize it or change its appearance.
Your grasp of the tone of what you write is clearly lacking if you don't think you are aggressive in your responses - hence my call that you were shouting down differing opinions. The post above (#100) does little to sway my opinion. To me, it reads like a tantrum. Use of bold lettering is commonly understood to be aggressive in nature and can be considered shouting. Over capitalization is another way. If you do not know of or accept the norms of western writing, that's your problem but don't think that I'll be the last person to hold you to account for such things.
I'll eagerly await your response, which will undoubtedly be filled with more of the same garbage reasoning, absolutes, aggression and the very misinformation and misunderstanding that you point to as evidence that you somehow hold the upper hand. It's been fun.
@ggyu - I'd still like to discuss what you are doing and how to combat the TR.
Its actually funny the hypocrite responded. His delivery was inflammatory, insulting, and aggressive from the beginning. The first post he attacked was a response agreeing with rabbinicus's opinion. The response was in no way linked to him and he decided to be aggressive by trolling it on his own. That is a clear troll move to start a useless argument. He even talks about logic yet it would have been more logical to not troll my response to rabbinicus, a response that agreed with rabbinicus's opinion, and start a useless argument. He even accuses me of being an "arrogant little prick" when he was an "arrogant little prick" to start this useless argument in the first place. He became a hypocrite because he did exactly what he preached against. Seriously, is he full of himself or what?? Preaching stuff and not practicing it. What a pathetic hypocrite. First he falsely accuse me of saying stuff that is inflammatory and then says stuff that is inflammatory. Hypocritical move one. Next he shout down my opinion that its a waste of time and then preach to me about shouting other people's opinions down. Hypocrite move number two right there. Just a pathetic arrogant delusional hypocritical individual with his head in the clouds. He should come off his high horse and take his head out the clouds. He only started this argument because he is so full of himself and has his head in the clouds or to troll. Trolling is probably the exact reason imanrshol started this useless argument.
He had a choice to ignore my response to rabbinicus like an adult but he decided to troll. It was a response to rannincus he felt he had a right to troll and act like a pretend moderator. He probably did this because he is so full of himself. I was only really aggressive after he first trolled me. He is not a moderator and does not have the power to hold me to account. He is just another user that trolls by pretending to be a moderate and trying to hold other users to account. He should stop being a wannabe moderator and stop the trolling. He should go sit in the corner for being a wannabe moderator and troll. Thanks for the laughs imanrshol and making it so obvious the type of person you are which is a troll. Seriously, trolling someone because you did not like the response they gave someone else is a low move in my opinion. I can understand if they responded to you but my original post that imanrshol first trolled and decided to be aggressive was a response to rabbinicus not imanrshol. Sigh, there was no reason for this argument and the only reason it seems it was started was that imanrshol wanted to pretend to be a moderator to troll. There is no reason for an argument and never was a reason. He just started trolling me because he did not like a response that was made to someone else. He could have been an adult and left it alone instead of pretending to be a moderator like a troll. He should be held to account for pretending to be a fake moderator. tsk tsk..... Clearly imanrshol is a lowly troll that takes pleasure out of pretending to be a moderator and trolling other people. tsk tsk...
Guess my opinion does hold weight despite what he says or logicially he would not have started this useless argument over it. But wait it was rabbinicus's opinion I was agreeing with in the response he decided to troll to start this useless argument. The only reason he would troll my response and not respond to rabbinicus is to troll by pretending to be a moderator. His opinion now holds negative weight because his own response show he is just a troll. ROFL! He really had no reason to start trolling.
Note: ggyu opened a new thread that does not start off attacking TRs and spreading misinformation. Granted I enjoy reading the hypocrite imanrshol's posts but this thread is now dead and a waste of my time. I will not be responding anymore to imanrshol because there is no reason for an argument and never was a reason. He just took upon himself to troll. I bet he will respond to this post trying to continue to troll. Sigh, trolls. tsk tsk.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
That is the only 1v1 I've ever lost, to any class, with any spec... GWF's are the easiest class to make super OP in PvP
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
ggyu opened a new thread and this time does not attack TRs or spread misinformation. You might be helpful there.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
So I can pay to win.
Regards,
Jabbin