Also the HoF nerf was for PvP, but i wouldn't like to have a cleric who thinks they are a DPS class i would prefer a hollowed ground or a divine armor which is, with no argument, more useful to the party.So i don't get why clerics are moaning over that ****ty daily.
With all your moaning about DCs are not viable in PvP, maybe try making a divinity regen focused build and see the difference.No class was destroyed, but you keep telling that to yourself if it makes you feel smart..
Umm HoF nerf makes no sense, it was not an issue in PvE and in PvP it was sooooo dodgable so nerfing it there makes no sense.
Also one cleric paragon is devoted to dealing damage, it should be just as viable as the rest. HoF was a good daily, now not so much they nerfed it to the ground.
SO you are fine with clerics needing to make a specific build to even be viable in PvP when no other class needs to do that. You call that balance? It's quite the opposite I can tell you.
SO you are fine with clerics needing to make a specific build to even be viable in PvP when no other class needs to do that. You call that balance? It's quite the opposite I can tell you.
Actually, GWFs are only viable in PvP if they are sentinel, TRs if they are perma stealth/stealth build and CWs if they are renegade.Else they would just get facerolled, just like DPS clerics.
Esteena, you seem to me one of those "hey, you healbot, you are here to heal me, you dont suppose to do damage, duh!" players, so I find it hard to take you seriously.
And actually, difference between dps cleric and healing one is mostly in skills he is using at the moment, since genenerally, for both you need power and crit.
Esteena, you seem to me one of those "hey, you healbot, you are here to heal me, you dont suppose to do damage, duh!" players, so I find it hard to take you seriously.
And actually, difference between dps cleric and healing one is mostly in skills he is using at the moment, since genenerally, for both you need power and crit.
I find it hard to take clerics, who thinks they can deal decent damage, seriously aswell. And no, not only the skills it is also the feats. And it isn't power and crit, it is armor penetration and crit..power add almost NOTHING to your damage nor heals as a celric.
I have only seen few decent DPS clerics, but they were stacking tenebrous so..
And explain to me why GFs are being taken in parties now compared to open beta where no one wanted them? because the casual party of 3 TRs aren't viable anymore after the Bleed stack nerf from the first balance patch.
Um, no. It was because GFs could barely hold any aggro like DCs did before it got fixed. Many boss fights during the open beta consisted of the cleric running in circles with all the adds tailing after him/her, and the poor GF struggling to get or let alone hold any mob's attention. Also, Oroness said nothing about Arcane Singularity, so maybe you could work on your reading comprehension. If you aren't too busy trolling, that is. Thank you.
Um, no. It was because GFs could barely hold any aggro like DCs did before it got fixed. Many boss fights during the open beta consisted of the cleric running in circles with all the adds tailing after him/her, and the poor GF struggling to get or let alone hold any mob's attention. Also, Oroness said nothing about Arcane Singularity, so maybe you could work on your reading comprehension. If you aren't too busy trolling, that is. Thank you.
Then why do they take GFs in CN? as far as i know the trailing tactic was only used in Frozen heart last boss.They take GFs in every Dungeon now whether trailing is involved or not, so i highly doubt it was about that.
My apologies about the singularity misread, i have mistakenly mixed him saying " Singular abilities" with "Arcane singularity".
Then why do they take GFs in CN? as far as i know the trailing tactic was only used in Frozen heart last boss.They take GFs in every Dungeon now whether trailing is involved or not, so i highly doubt it was about that.
I personally like having a GF around, so I can't really answer that, especially not for anyone else. To me, it was never about the trailing tactic, because it was just hellish back then having all of the aggro and only some of the survivability. You could throw some heals left and right, but too often you were running for your life hoping not to get stunned and killed (and, subsequently, get your whole party killed). Of course now every other class seems to generate more aggro than clerics do, so our job is a lot easier, but that just means that the GF is there to keep the aggro away from other squishies.
Then why do they take GFs in CN? as far as i know the trailing tactic was only used in Frozen heart last boss.They take GFs in every Dungeon now whether trailing is involved or not, so i highly doubt it was about that.
Because its better to have mobs hooked on GF then CW. Dont get me wrong, its good that GFs finally got a role to fill in PvE and took burden from DCs shoulders. But "balancing" patch after patch a class that at best is already mediocre is not the way to go.
@esteena
Yeah, thanks for the grammar lesson.
But now a DC is nowhere near what Cryptic advertised in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sq3jzSBsow
You just admited it when you said a cleric shouldn't be expected to deal damage.
Then again... so much for knowing why Cryptic do what they do and so much for common sense.
Honestly, at this point I don't expect you to make any sense.
Also the HoF nerf was for PvP, but i wouldn't like to have a cleric who thinks they are a DPS class i would prefer a hollowed ground or a divine armor which is, with no argument, more useful to the party.So i don't get why clerics are moaning over that ****ty daily.
No, it's not "more useful to the party with no argument," because when you're fighting a mob with multiple upper-tier enemies plus some CC for fun AND you've just full-healed your party members with Divine Astral Shield, Divine Sunburst, and Divine Forgemaster's Flame, you don't need Divine Armor -- you need to smite one of those upper-tier enemies with HoF to finish the job fast and give you a second to breathe without getting thrown through the air by a CC, then immediately go back to healing/buffing when your party actually needs healing/buffing. This is especially valid if the queue or your friends/guildmates give you a second DC (yes, I have been one of two DCs in a pug many times, it happens). Used right, it's invaluable to a party and to the DC him-/herself. The problem now is that it can't be used right because there's no right way to use that weak of a single-target daily. It used to be an infrequently used (because often you need HG instead) but potentially life-saving and game-changing daily (because of its damage), and now it's not even worth slotting.
@esteena
Yeah, thanks for the grammar lesson.
But now a DC is nowhere near what Cryptic advertised in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sq3jzSBsow
You just admited it when you said a cleric shouldn't be expected to deal damage.
Then again... so much for knowing why Cryptic do what they do and so much for common sense.
Honestly, at this point I don't expect you to make any sense.
Of course that's not to mention if we are actually talking about roles in game. There is technically no dps role the roles are called:
Striker - Deals large amounts of damage to single targets while avoiding attacks. TR falls here
Defender - Focuses enemy attacks on themselves. GF falls here and to a lesser extent the GWF
Controller - Focuses on affecting multiple enemies at once by either damaging or debuffing them and controlling the battlefield. CW, DC and GWF fall here.
Leader - Focuses on buffing and healing allies. DC falls here
GWF and DC fulfill 2 roles. For the GWF they are primarily controllers and secondarily defenders. For the DC they are primarily Leaders and secondarily controllers.
The cleric class here was not designed as a healbot. If I had a choice in a dungeon between a healbot cleric and any other cleric I'd take the one that's not a healbot because they can actually defend themselves if necessary.
Besides being a healbot is not fun, those guys have pitiful damage. My faithful cleric has no problem healing people and defending herself. She might be specced for healing but she's not a healbot. My virtuous cleric can heal people quite effectively if they also are watching their survivability and wreck havoc on the battlefield. My righteous cleric can do this as well, though her damage is somewhat lower then my virtuous one. My faithful one has the lowest damage but she can still deal large amounts of damage if necessary. Also for most mobs in most dungeons my faithful cleric only needs one healing spell in to heal everyone. Yes even in T2 dungeons.
@esteena
Yeah, thanks for the grammar lesson.
But now a DC is nowhere near what Cryptic advertised in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sq3jzSBsow
You just admited it when you said a cleric shouldn't be expected to deal damage.
Then again... so much for knowing why Cryptic do what they do and so much for common sense.
Honestly, at this point I don't expect you to make any sense.
Hmm so you are using a general-introduction to a Devoted class Video as a reference that it is supposed to deal damage..well, no one said in the TR introduction video that they will be the best Single target strikers in game. It would have made more sense if it was the GWF .Maybe trying too hard to win an already lost argument?
Game is subjected to changes, you should realize that by now, and using an intro video as a reference to claim that " yes i can deal damage" doesn't make any sense if you ask me.
If you look at the new DC paragon pathes, you will see they are getting deeper into the healing and tanky spec.IF i recall correctly, one of your Dailies will give you immunity to you and your allies.
But you can stay butthurt over your so called "DPS" concept for clerics, it wont and will never get viable . Cheers~
Of course that's not to mention if we are actually talking about roles in game. There is technically no dps role the roles are called:
Striker - Deals large amounts of damage to single targets while avoiding attacks. TR falls here
Defender - Focuses enemy attacks on themselves. GF falls here and to a lesser extent the GWF
Controller - Focuses on affecting multiple enemies at once by either damaging or debuffing them and controlling the battlefield. CW, DC and GWF fall here.
Leader - Focuses on buffing and healing allies. DC falls here
GWF and DC fulfill 2 roles. For the GWF they are primarily controllers and secondarily defenders. For the DC they are primarily Leaders and secondarily controllers.
The cleric class here was not designed as a healbot. If I had a choice in a dungeon between a healbot cleric and any other cleric I'd take the one that's not a healbot because they can actually defend themselves if necessary.
Besides being a healbot is not fun, those guys have pitiful damage. My faithful cleric has no problem healing people and defending herself. She might be specced for healing but she's not a healbot. My virtuous cleric can heal people quite effectively if they also are watching their survivability and wreck havoc on the battlefield. My righteous cleric can do this as well, though her damage is somewhat lower then my virtuous one. My faithful one has the lowest damage but she can still deal large amounts of damage if necessary. Also for most mobs in most dungeons my faithful cleric only needs one healing spell in to heal everyone. Yes even in T2 dungeons.
I think GWF should be a Striker/Defender class. Since his controlling abilities are no different than TRs smoke bomb or dazing strike.
Perhaps their "Roar","Punishing Charge" ,"Takedown" and "Flourish" are considered as CC abilities but they are so naive to make them in the controller category. Since GF's and CW's controlling is much better.
I really hope that GWF gets viable in PvE as he is in PvE, it is kinda sad seeing GWF class being replaced by TRs and GFs.
I think GWF should be a Striker/Defender class. Since his controlling abilities are no different than TRs smoke bomb or dazing strike.
Perhaps their "Roar","Punishing Charge" ,"Takedown" and "Flourish" are considered as CC abilities but they are so naive to make them in the controller category. Since GF's and CW's controlling is much better.
I really hope that GWF gets viable in PvE as he is in PvE, it is kinda sad seeing GWF class being replaced by TRs and GFs.
Yeah but he's not a the nimble avoiding attacks kind of idea. I gets his determination from kills and taking damage. Strikers role is defined by dealing alot of damage to single targets and dodging enemy attacks. Essentially a striker is a combatant that singles out targets and avoids getting hit if they can.
Just like a DC is a leader/controller in this game.
Als all of these combat roles are in addition to dealing damage and not a replacement for dealing damage.
Hmm so you are using a general-introduction to a Devoted class Video as a reference that it is supposed to deal damage..well, no one said in the TR introduction video that they will be the best Single target strikers in game. It would have made more sense if it was the GWF .Maybe trying too hard to win an already lost argument?
Game is subjected to changes, you should realize that by now, and using an intro video as a reference to claim that " yes i can deal damage" doesn't make any sense if you ask me.
If you look at the new DC paragon pathes, you will see they are getting deeper into the healing and tanky spec.IF i recall correctly, one of your Dailies will give you immunity to you and your allies.
But you can stay butthurt over your so called "DPS" concept for clerics, it wont and will never get viable . Cheers~
Well as I predicted you still make little sense.
When you sell something to the general public as "A", you cannot change it into "B" but still claim it is "A".
Cryptic can do whatever they want with other paragon paths, after all it's just a couple different abilities. The rest of them KEEP BEING THE FRIGGING SAME ATTACK SPELLS that every cleric has no matter their path.
The fact that there are feats that are giving you higher ARP and increase the damage you deal with certain abilities invalidates everything you can possibly say against a cleric who can consistenly DPS and heal without having to restrict himself with that "tanky bullcrap" of yours.
See: Templars Domain, Focused Poise, Nimbus of Light, Disciple of Divine Lore, Strenght of the Gods, cycle of Change.
Those feats are obviously not offensive at all, right? :rolleyes:
And I didn't include those that modify attack spells to add a debuff or some sort of secondary healing effect to them.
Well as I predicted you still make little sense.
When you sell something to the general public as "A", you cannot change it into "B" but still claim it is "A".
The fact that there are feats that are giving you higher ARP and increase the damage you deal with certain abilities invalidates everything you can possibly say against a cleric who can consistenly DPS and heal without having to restrict himself with that "tanky bullcrap" of yours.
See: Templars Domain, Focused Poise, Nimbus of Light, Disciple of Divine Lore, Strenght of the Gods, cycle of Change.
Those feats are obviously not offensive at all, right? :rolleyes:
And I didn't include those that modify attack spells to add a debuff or some sort of secondary healing effect to them.
Your couple of skills that enhances your DPS are nothing, since the outcome in laughable. compared to the "couple" of healing skills that you currently have , and the "couple" of healing skills you will get with the new paragons, your Cleric DPS concept is like giving a kid a water gun. About armor penetration, some of your healing skills gives more heals depending on your ARP .
It is more like the class changed from "A" to "A/" .You act like the class is entirely changed just because of AP gain nerf and a useless HoF daily nerf. So much speaking of making sense:rolleyes:.
Your DPS cleric argument surely makes alot of sense :rolleyes: , i wonder how many people laugh at you when you try throwing your feather balls at them.
Saying "Cryptic can do whatever they want with other paragon paths, after all it's just a couple different abilities. The rest of them KEEP BEING THE FRIGGING SAME ATTACK SPELLS that every cleric has no matter their path." sounds like " I don't care how many useful abilities you would give me, I WILL STICK WITH MINES BECAUSE I IZ DA DPS MIGHTTTTTEEEHHH CLEEEERRIIICCCC".
Never mentioned HoF and AP gain nerf as gamebreaking or classbreaking. Seriously, do you even read yourself?
Also, I never said FULL DPS cleric or some HAMSTER like that.
You're just making stuff up trying to be some kind of joker troll or something. You bore me.
...to claim that " yes i can deal damage" doesn't make any sense if you ask me.
This shows your deep seated and severe misunderstanding of the DC class.
DC is more dependent on doing damage than any other class. Everyone gains AP by doing damage, but DC is the only class that also refills it's TAB power by doing damage.
TR & GF TAB meters regen. GWF TAB refills almost entirely from taking damage. CW TAB is just a boost to encounter powers.
You should stick to commenting about classes that you know something about, instead of cluelessly trolling discussions outside of your experience or understanding.
Never mentioned HoF and AP gain nerf as gamebreaking or classbreaking. Seriously, do you even read yourself?
Also, I never said FULL DPS cleric or some HAMSTER like that.
You're just making stuff up trying to be some kind of joker troll or something. You bore me.
You did say that Cleric are supposed to deal "ALOT " of damage. Need a memory jog?Taking an intro video of a guy in deep voice saying " dealing huge aoe damage".Why changing your words now?
Your whole pathetic whining is because of the damage nerf to the DC class from the balance patch.Thats the whole point of this thread if you didn't notice.
This shows your deep seated and severe misunderstanding of the DC class.
DC is more dependent on doing damage than any other class. Everyone gains AP by doing damage, but DC is the only class that also refills it's TAB power by doing damage.
TR & GF TAB meters regen. GWF TAB refills almost entirely from taking damage. CW TAB is just a boost to encounter powers.
You should stick to commenting about classes that you know something about, instead of cluelessly trolling discussions outside of your experience or understanding.
The argument was about how much damage a cleric can do, and if it is useful for the party in PvP or not, compared to other classes. It was never about not dealing damage at all.
DC needs to deal damage from time to time to degenerate divinity, but how much damage they can make is another story and it is the reason why i said that their damage is low as hell.
You can regenerate divinity just fine, no matter how low your damage is, especially if you have the T2 PvP gear.. you are a divinity factory.
So don't try to convince me that your class is dependent on dealing as much damage as possible just to regenerate divinity, which is easily regenerated just from normally attacking mobs.
...So don't try to convince me that your class is dependent on dealing as much damage as possible just to regenerate divinity, which is easily regenerated just from normally attacking mobs.
Nobody gives a rat's *** what you 'think' DC class is 'supposed' to be like, and you clearly don't have any idea how it really works.
As usual, the people that know the least are convinced they know it all, and can't be reasoned with.
Why mods allow you ****ing Rogue Brigade TR(oll)s to hijack every thread with stupid *** hole misinformation and lies is beyond me. It's a serious problem on these forums. There can be no intelligent discussion of anything, because some moron from Team Rogue shows up and start the troll fest.
Plus damage-wise, a decently-geared DC taking a full bar o' doomspells can put out some silly numbers. Debuff+debuff+DAUNTING LIIIIGHT
...and that's AoE, too. Can kill an entire enemy team with it, potentially. I mean, they'd all have to be idiots, but still: it's nice to entertain the possibility.
Anyway, I really see why anyone's still trying to argue with esteena, it's an even bigger waste of time than waiting for a dev response.
Plus damage-wise, a decently-geared DC taking a full bar o' doomspells can put out some silly numbers. Debuff+debuff+DAUNTING LIIIIGHT
...and that's AoE, too. Can kill an entire enemy team with it, potentially. I mean, they'd all have to be idiots, but still: it's nice to entertain the possibility.
Anyway, I really see why anyone's still trying to argue with esteena, it's an even bigger waste of time than waiting for a dev response.
Yeah, and some people think they can't deal damage XD
Even my faithful healing spec cleric keeps 1 nuke spell in. She might focus on healing more but she is not a healbot!
Plus damage-wise, a decently-geared DC taking a full bar o' doomspells can put out some silly numbers. Debuff+debuff+DAUNTING LIIIIGHT
...and that's AoE, too. Can kill an entire enemy team with it, potentially. I mean, they'd all have to be idiots, but still: it's nice to entertain the possibility.
Nobody gives a rat's *** what you 'think' DC class is 'supposed' to be like, and you clearly don't have any idea how it really works.
As usual, the people that know the least are convinced they know it all, and can't be reasoned with.
Why mods allow you ****ing Rogue Brigade TR(oll)s to hijack every thread with stupid *** hole misinformation and lies is beyond me. It's a serious problem on these forums. There can be no intelligent discussion of anything, because some moron from Team Rogue shows up and start the troll fest.
Yeah , i don't understand how mods allow me to tell clerics they are supposed to focus on heals than dealing as much damage as possible. But since the DC-introduction-Class video says with a deep voice " dealing huge AoE damage", then we must take that for granted and generalize it to even make it competent with the damage outputs of other classes !.
It is my opinion, if you don't like it then stick with your "nuke" (rofl) concept of clerics . I just hope we never get partied together.
I just go PvP and see these clerics specing DPS and using High prophet gear, getting nuked by a T1 geared TR...and can't help myself but laugh really.
Yeah , i don't understand how mods allow me to tell clerics they are supposed to focus on heals than dealing as much damage as possible. But since the DC-introduction-Class video says with a deep voice " dealing huge AoE damage", then we must take that for granted and generalize it to even make it competent with the damage outputs of other classes !.
It is my opinion, if you don't like it then stick with your "nuke" (rofl) concept of clerics . I just hope we never get partied together.
I just go PvP and see these clerics specing DPS and using High prophet gear, getting nuked by a T1 geared TR...and can't help myself but laugh really.
You know it;s really sad that some people can't seem to get it into their heads that their concept of the DC class is wrong. They were not designed as a healbot, but as a support class that can deal alot of damage while supporting their party.
I just go PvP and see these clerics specing DPS and using High prophet gear, getting nuked by a T1 geared TR...and can't help myself but laugh really.
Really? It makes you happy that the weakest class is unsurprisingly also having the worst time? And getting killed by the best single-target damage dealer class in the game? Wish I was that easy to amuse, life would be much simpler that way.
(P.S. High Prophet is also T1 gear, and ty for bumping this thread.)
Really? It makes you happy that the weakest class is unsurprisingly also having the worst time? And getting killed by the best single-target damage dealer class in the game? Wish I was that easy to amuse, life would be much simpler that way.
(P.S. High Prophet is also T1 gear, and ty for bumping this thread.)
But high prophet gear is awesome. I wish there was a better T2 set for this though.
Your couple of skills that enhances your DPS are nothing, since the outcome in laughable. compared to the "couple" of healing skills that you currently have , and the "couple" of healing skills you will get with the new paragons, your Cleric DPS concept is like giving a kid a water gun. About armor penetration, some of your healing skills gives more heals depending on your ARP .
First off, you are obviously talking about some imaginary game that you have confused with Neverwinter. Please tell me, which heals do more healing with ArmorPen. My testing actually shows that ArmorPen is completely broken for the DC, and doesn't work with the majority of our Powers at all. It's just not reducing the target's DR any. Surely you must not be talking about Repurpose Soul, which completely ignores DR when heals are calculated, not Forgemaster's Flame, which had the HEALING component nerfed for some reason in the last patch. (By 30-40%) But we are healbots? And our healing gets nerfed?
Second, you're dead wrong about the DPS. Even with the bugs mentioned. In all the dungeon runs where I have not been stuck healing, I have come out on top of the damage charts. Breaking it down with ACT parsing the combat logs, it's because I can do massive AoE damage with Searing Light. My single-target boss damage is in the middle, but I can significantly increase the amount of damage a TR or GWF is doing (about double damage.)
I can't figure out if you're just trolling, which it seems like, or if you just are if proving the Dunning–Kruger effect here on the Neverwinter forums.
Ok first let me preface my reply; I don't spell well, punctuation forget it, this thread is not really about nerfing DC's, and I know I will get positive and negative responses. This is more like a rush for $$$'s, I feel like this game is still in beta. Most of the problem is about skills not working properly from the beginning not just in one class but all classes. I feel that we as consumers(even though this is a free to play game,( wink..wink...nod..nod)) are not taken into account, and our concerns are just put into the circular filing cabinet(aka the trash bin). I have personal experience. How often do you get actual positive responses on threads. Case in point how many responses can you find from mods or devs on this thread. I know but check all 15 pages and see if you come up with the same number I did. There is so much content in this game that is broken or don't work right. All of which, should of been at least working before launch. Changes are inevetible (here goes the spelling thing and idc you understand what im saying) all games go through tweaking to make the game more fair to all classes. Now we all have our roles. Yes DC's seem to be getting picked on but buck up soldiers more changes will come, and maybe the next thread we will be extoling the virtues of the new skills or it will be other classes complaining about this or that negative changes to their class of preference. I have always thought of a cleric as a priest, and priests usually become palidens, so I don't worry about the here and now, because CRYPTIC is lagging and just happy to continue collecting our $$$'s and pricing many items unrealistically. I look forward to what's to come, when it comes that is. I could complain but what would or could it change, nothing, so I just wait. In the grand scheme of things we are just a $ number to a company that cares less about us than the profit margin.Rush an unfinished product to market. Why, to upset your customer base. I don't get it. That said I still love to game and this game for playability is above average. Ok I feel less is more so I will end here.
optimistic pessisom( hope for the best, prepare for the worst)
Comments
Umm HoF nerf makes no sense, it was not an issue in PvE and in PvP it was sooooo dodgable so nerfing it there makes no sense.
Also one cleric paragon is devoted to dealing damage, it should be just as viable as the rest. HoF was a good daily, now not so much they nerfed it to the ground.
SO you are fine with clerics needing to make a specific build to even be viable in PvP when no other class needs to do that. You call that balance? It's quite the opposite I can tell you.
Actually, GWFs are only viable in PvP if they are sentinel, TRs if they are perma stealth/stealth build and CWs if they are renegade.Else they would just get facerolled, just like DPS clerics.
And actually, difference between dps cleric and healing one is mostly in skills he is using at the moment, since genenerally, for both you need power and crit.
I find it hard to take clerics, who thinks they can deal decent damage, seriously aswell. And no, not only the skills it is also the feats. And it isn't power and crit, it is armor penetration and crit..power add almost NOTHING to your damage nor heals as a celric.
I have only seen few decent DPS clerics, but they were stacking tenebrous so..
Um, no. It was because GFs could barely hold any aggro like DCs did before it got fixed. Many boss fights during the open beta consisted of the cleric running in circles with all the adds tailing after him/her, and the poor GF struggling to get or let alone hold any mob's attention. Also, Oroness said nothing about Arcane Singularity, so maybe you could work on your reading comprehension. If you aren't too busy trolling, that is. Thank you.
I want this class in NW.
Then why do they take GFs in CN? as far as i know the trailing tactic was only used in Frozen heart last boss.They take GFs in every Dungeon now whether trailing is involved or not, so i highly doubt it was about that.
My apologies about the singularity misread, i have mistakenly mixed him saying " Singular abilities" with "Arcane singularity".
Err...you are the one sounding like a troll at the moment. and it is amount* by the way
I'm not really trolling, i just find the whole moaning about " DC is broken now " argument is beyond HAMSTER.
I personally like having a GF around, so I can't really answer that, especially not for anyone else. To me, it was never about the trailing tactic, because it was just hellish back then having all of the aggro and only some of the survivability. You could throw some heals left and right, but too often you were running for your life hoping not to get stunned and killed (and, subsequently, get your whole party killed). Of course now every other class seems to generate more aggro than clerics do, so our job is a lot easier, but that just means that the GF is there to keep the aggro away from other squishies.
Because its better to have mobs hooked on GF then CW. Dont get me wrong, its good that GFs finally got a role to fill in PvE and took burden from DCs shoulders. But "balancing" patch after patch a class that at best is already mediocre is not the way to go.
Yeah, thanks for the grammar lesson.
But now a DC is nowhere near what Cryptic advertised in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sq3jzSBsow
You just admited it when you said a cleric shouldn't be expected to deal damage.
Then again... so much for knowing why Cryptic do what they do and so much for common sense.
Honestly, at this point I don't expect you to make any sense.
I want this class in NW.
No, it's not "more useful to the party with no argument," because when you're fighting a mob with multiple upper-tier enemies plus some CC for fun AND you've just full-healed your party members with Divine Astral Shield, Divine Sunburst, and Divine Forgemaster's Flame, you don't need Divine Armor -- you need to smite one of those upper-tier enemies with HoF to finish the job fast and give you a second to breathe without getting thrown through the air by a CC, then immediately go back to healing/buffing when your party actually needs healing/buffing. This is especially valid if the queue or your friends/guildmates give you a second DC (yes, I have been one of two DCs in a pug many times, it happens). Used right, it's invaluable to a party and to the DC him-/herself. The problem now is that it can't be used right because there's no right way to use that weak of a single-target daily. It used to be an infrequently used (because often you need HG instead) but potentially life-saving and game-changing daily (because of its damage), and now it's not even worth slotting.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Of course that's not to mention if we are actually talking about roles in game. There is technically no dps role the roles are called:
Striker - Deals large amounts of damage to single targets while avoiding attacks. TR falls here
Defender - Focuses enemy attacks on themselves. GF falls here and to a lesser extent the GWF
Controller - Focuses on affecting multiple enemies at once by either damaging or debuffing them and controlling the battlefield. CW, DC and GWF fall here.
Leader - Focuses on buffing and healing allies. DC falls here
GWF and DC fulfill 2 roles. For the GWF they are primarily controllers and secondarily defenders. For the DC they are primarily Leaders and secondarily controllers.
The cleric class here was not designed as a healbot. If I had a choice in a dungeon between a healbot cleric and any other cleric I'd take the one that's not a healbot because they can actually defend themselves if necessary.
Besides being a healbot is not fun, those guys have pitiful damage. My faithful cleric has no problem healing people and defending herself. She might be specced for healing but she's not a healbot. My virtuous cleric can heal people quite effectively if they also are watching their survivability and wreck havoc on the battlefield. My righteous cleric can do this as well, though her damage is somewhat lower then my virtuous one. My faithful one has the lowest damage but she can still deal large amounts of damage if necessary. Also for most mobs in most dungeons my faithful cleric only needs one healing spell in to heal everyone. Yes even in T2 dungeons.
Hmm so you are using a general-introduction to a Devoted class Video as a reference that it is supposed to deal damage..well, no one said in the TR introduction video that they will be the best Single target strikers in game. It would have made more sense if it was the GWF .Maybe trying too hard to win an already lost argument?
Game is subjected to changes, you should realize that by now, and using an intro video as a reference to claim that " yes i can deal damage" doesn't make any sense if you ask me.
If you look at the new DC paragon pathes, you will see they are getting deeper into the healing and tanky spec.IF i recall correctly, one of your Dailies will give you immunity to you and your allies.
But you can stay butthurt over your so called "DPS" concept for clerics, it wont and will never get viable
I think GWF should be a Striker/Defender class. Since his controlling abilities are no different than TRs smoke bomb or dazing strike.
Perhaps their "Roar","Punishing Charge" ,"Takedown" and "Flourish" are considered as CC abilities but they are so naive to make them in the controller category. Since GF's and CW's controlling is much better.
I really hope that GWF gets viable in PvE as he is in PvE, it is kinda sad seeing GWF class being replaced by TRs and GFs.
Yeah but he's not a the nimble avoiding attacks kind of idea. I gets his determination from kills and taking damage. Strikers role is defined by dealing alot of damage to single targets and dodging enemy attacks. Essentially a striker is a combatant that singles out targets and avoids getting hit if they can.
Just like a DC is a leader/controller in this game.
Als all of these combat roles are in addition to dealing damage and not a replacement for dealing damage.
Well as I predicted you still make little sense.
When you sell something to the general public as "A", you cannot change it into "B" but still claim it is "A".
Cryptic can do whatever they want with other paragon paths, after all it's just a couple different abilities. The rest of them KEEP BEING THE FRIGGING SAME ATTACK SPELLS that every cleric has no matter their path.
The fact that there are feats that are giving you higher ARP and increase the damage you deal with certain abilities invalidates everything you can possibly say against a cleric who can consistenly DPS and heal without having to restrict himself with that "tanky bullcrap" of yours.
See: Templars Domain, Focused Poise, Nimbus of Light, Disciple of Divine Lore, Strenght of the Gods, cycle of Change.
Those feats are obviously not offensive at all, right? :rolleyes:
And I didn't include those that modify attack spells to add a debuff or some sort of secondary healing effect to them.
I want this class in NW.
Your couple of skills that enhances your DPS are nothing, since the outcome in laughable. compared to the "couple" of healing skills that you currently have , and the "couple" of healing skills you will get with the new paragons, your Cleric DPS concept is like giving a kid a water gun. About armor penetration, some of your healing skills gives more heals depending on your ARP .
It is more like the class changed from "A" to "A/" .You act like the class is entirely changed just because of AP gain nerf and a useless HoF daily nerf. So much speaking of making sense:rolleyes:.
Your DPS cleric argument surely makes alot of sense :rolleyes: , i wonder how many people laugh at you when you try throwing your feather balls at them.
Saying "Cryptic can do whatever they want with other paragon paths, after all it's just a couple different abilities. The rest of them KEEP BEING THE FRIGGING SAME ATTACK SPELLS that every cleric has no matter their path." sounds like " I don't care how many useful abilities you would give me, I WILL STICK WITH MINES BECAUSE I IZ DA DPS MIGHTTTTTEEEHHH CLEEEERRIIICCCC".
Also, I never said FULL DPS cleric or some HAMSTER like that.
You're just making stuff up trying to be some kind of joker troll or something. You bore me.
I want this class in NW.
DC is more dependent on doing damage than any other class. Everyone gains AP by doing damage, but DC is the only class that also refills it's TAB power by doing damage.
TR & GF TAB meters regen. GWF TAB refills almost entirely from taking damage. CW TAB is just a boost to encounter powers.
You should stick to commenting about classes that you know something about, instead of cluelessly trolling discussions outside of your experience or understanding.
You did say that Cleric are supposed to deal "ALOT " of damage. Need a memory jog?Taking an intro video of a guy in deep voice saying " dealing huge aoe damage".Why changing your words now?
Your whole pathetic whining is because of the damage nerf to the DC class from the balance patch.Thats the whole point of this thread if you didn't notice.
The argument was about how much damage a cleric can do, and if it is useful for the party in PvP or not, compared to other classes. It was never about not dealing damage at all.
DC needs to deal damage from time to time to degenerate divinity, but how much damage they can make is another story and it is the reason why i said that their damage is low as hell.
You can regenerate divinity just fine, no matter how low your damage is, especially if you have the T2 PvP gear.. you are a divinity factory.
So don't try to convince me that your class is dependent on dealing as much damage as possible just to regenerate divinity, which is easily regenerated just from normally attacking mobs.
As usual, the people that know the least are convinced they know it all, and can't be reasoned with.
Why mods allow you ****ing Rogue Brigade TR(oll)s to hijack every thread with stupid *** hole misinformation and lies is beyond me. It's a serious problem on these forums. There can be no intelligent discussion of anything, because some moron from Team Rogue shows up and start the troll fest.
...and that's AoE, too. Can kill an entire enemy team with it, potentially. I mean, they'd all have to be idiots, but still: it's nice to entertain the possibility.
Anyway, I really see why anyone's still trying to argue with esteena, it's an even bigger waste of time than waiting for a dev response.
Yeah, and some people think they can't deal damage XD
Even my faithful healing spec cleric keeps 1 nuke spell in. She might focus on healing more but she is not a healbot!
Thanks for the laugh
Yeah , i don't understand how mods allow me to tell clerics they are supposed to focus on heals than dealing as much damage as possible. But since the DC-introduction-Class video says with a deep voice " dealing huge AoE damage", then we must take that for granted and generalize it to even make it competent with the damage outputs of other classes !.
It is my opinion, if you don't like it then stick with your "nuke" (rofl) concept of clerics
I just go PvP and see these clerics specing DPS and using High prophet gear, getting nuked by a T1 geared TR...and can't help myself but laugh really.
You know it;s really sad that some people can't seem to get it into their heads that their concept of the DC class is wrong. They were not designed as a healbot, but as a support class that can deal alot of damage while supporting their party.
Really? It makes you happy that the weakest class is unsurprisingly also having the worst time? And getting killed by the best single-target damage dealer class in the game? Wish I was that easy to amuse, life would be much simpler that way.
(P.S. High Prophet is also T1 gear, and ty for bumping this thread.)
But high prophet gear is awesome. I wish there was a better T2 set for this though.
First off, you are obviously talking about some imaginary game that you have confused with Neverwinter. Please tell me, which heals do more healing with ArmorPen. My testing actually shows that ArmorPen is completely broken for the DC, and doesn't work with the majority of our Powers at all. It's just not reducing the target's DR any. Surely you must not be talking about Repurpose Soul, which completely ignores DR when heals are calculated, not Forgemaster's Flame, which had the HEALING component nerfed for some reason in the last patch. (By 30-40%) But we are healbots? And our healing gets nerfed?
Second, you're dead wrong about the DPS. Even with the bugs mentioned. In all the dungeon runs where I have not been stuck healing, I have come out on top of the damage charts. Breaking it down with ACT parsing the combat logs, it's because I can do massive AoE damage with Searing Light. My single-target boss damage is in the middle, but I can significantly increase the amount of damage a TR or GWF is doing (about double damage.)
I can't figure out if you're just trolling, which it seems like, or if you just are if proving the Dunning–Kruger effect here on the Neverwinter forums.
optimistic pessisom( hope for the best, prepare for the worst)