GWF fighter here. I do play the class. TR will blow my doors off in single target.
I blow his doors off when there is lots of mobs.
CW can only surpass me when he tosses due to him getting credit for the health of the mob.
Otherwise he isn't close.
TR only when we get to end boss and he can shine where as I am on add control.
I usually have 1mil+ lead on the TR ...but after the boss we are neck and neck and switch the lead depending on the run.
This is how it goes on my Destroyer too. I really like the class and path, I love gathering the mobs nice and tight and debuff the heck out of them so the CW can finish them more easily. Or roaring into a crowd of mobs that just laid down some heavy red.
I reckon GWF does well in dungeons where there are not that many cliffs. Thing is, there are not many dungeons without them and that makes the GWF kind of obsolete. Also, GWF has a bad reputation of not being needed.
But personally I would rather have an extra GWF than a TR who's only there to burn the boss.. Bossfights are so much easier when the adds are under control, and a TR on the boss is not on add duty.
Besides the obvious bug fixes though, I think the devs need to remove the hit-cap. It makes no sense to have skills that make the GWF do more damage when he hits more than 3 mobs, but just totally ignores everything over 5. A tanks at-will can hit more mobs than the AoE melee specialist. That's just wrong.
Please stop posting how you top the damage charts... damage done to trash mobs is useless! It does not matter in the least, CW can kill the same trash within 3 seconds of the time it would take a GWF too, so in trash you maybe gain 1 minute in run speed. And then by having a GWF instead of CW you can't cc adds as well and maybe fail a time or 2 on boss, there goes 10 minutes. Or you lose a TR and just plain lose 5 mins b/c boss dies so slow. In any instance where you can bump it doesn't matter if you did 5 times as much damage as anyone else b/c CW's can one shot all mobs.
I have a 60 GWF, I've had him for a while now. I have specced him PvE sent, couldn't hold agro as well as GF, uneeded. PvE destroyer, did a ton of damage but I was incredibly squishy compared to sent, I could pull agro but then I died b/c I got too much. And now is strictly PvP sent and he tears up the Arena.
That's where GWF shine, PvP. For the last time the damage meter means absolutely nothing!!! It's about speed and ease of the run.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Please stop posting how you top the damage charts... damage done to trash mobs is useless! It does not matter in the least, CW can kill the same trash within 3 seconds of the time it would take a GWF too, so in trash you maybe gain 1 minute in run speed. And then by having a GWF instead of CW you can't cc adds as well and maybe fail a time or 2 on boss, there goes 10 minutes. Or you lose a TR and just plain lose 5 mins b/c boss dies so slow. In any instance where you can bump it doesn't matter if you did 5 times as much damage as anyone else b/c CW's can one shot all mobs.
I have a 60 GWF, I've had him for a while now. I have specced him PvE sent, couldn't hold agro as well as GF, uneeded. PvE destroyer, did a ton of damage but I was incredibly squishy compared to sent, I could pull agro but then I died b/c I got too much. And now is strictly PvP sent and he tears up the Arena.
That's where GWF shine, PvP. For the last time the damage meter means absolutely nothing!!! It's about speed and ease of the run.
You tried 2 of the 3 specs. I play the spec you did not try and I top damage meters. I melt packs of mobs faster than a CW when they can't toss the adds and even when they can they still have a hard time keeping up with my damage.
I have taken dracolich from 60% to dead when the TR caught a bad break.
Let me know when a CW can do that and maybe you would have a point.
You tried 2 of the 3 specs. I play the spec you did not try and I top damage meters. I melt packs of mobs faster than a CW when they can't toss the adds and even when they can they still have a hard time keeping up with my damage.
I have taken dracolich from 60% to dead when the TR caught a bad break.
Let me know when a CW can do that and maybe you would have a point.
Again tarmalen I have read many of your posts and agree with you most of the time, and your numbers and facts are always dead on, I'm saying that damage doesn't matter. CW's bring more than damage to the dungeon, and TR's bring the heavy boss damage. I didn't try instigator b/c any group that would take along a GWF generally did not also have a GF and so I was taking hits quite often and that negates the capstone. I have taken draco from 70% to dead on my CW when rest of the party took hands to the face (took forever, probably would have been better to just wipe honestly), once mobs are glitched the fight is trivial, but it takes a good CW to glitch those mobs very quickly...
CW is a must have in most dungeons and extremely useful in all dungeons for CC. TR is IMO a must have if you want bosses and elites to die quickly. DC is obviously a must have. The remaining two classes are just not must haves, and you are right that this is a flaw in the game's mechanics but that is currently how it is =/
Edit: I topped damage meter as destroyer too, and at the end of a dungeon I realized first hand how useless that is as my main is a CW and I saw time and time again where having my CW instead would have been far more beneficial.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Because there are like 3 GWFs who can actually outdps a decent CW.
Depends on the dungeon. If you mean CN, well, the CW is popping so many adds and monsters throughout there's no way anyone could catch them in DPS. Little different there.
You tried 2 of the 3 specs. I play the spec you did not try and I top damage meters. I melt packs of mobs faster than a CW when they can't toss the adds and even when they can they still have a hard time keeping up with my damage.
I have taken dracolich from 60% to dead when the TR caught a bad break.
Let me know when a CW can do that and maybe you would have a point.
Def agree. I've done all of the things he mentions here. The problem is the general opinion of the GWF and the lack of GOOD players. 95%, if not more, of GWFs are terrible players, it seems to draw in all the fools because of what the class seems to promise, but it requires much more work than you'd expect to get there, leaving most players at the bottom of the pile.
Def agree. I've done all of the things he mentions here. The problem is the general opinion of the GWF and the lack of GOOD players. 95%, if not more, of GWFs are terrible players, it seems to draw in all the fools because of what the class seems to promise, but it requires much more work than you'd expect to get there, leaving most players at the bottom of the pile.
Sadly yes...the more pitch points...the harder I have to strive to at least keep it close. Without pitch points then we rule the chart until final boss and the TR 'wakes up'.
Again tarmalen I have read many of your posts and agree with you most of the time, and your numbers and facts are always dead on, I'm saying that damage doesn't matter. CW's bring more than damage to the dungeon, and TR's bring the heavy boss damage. I didn't try instigator b/c any group that would take along a GWF generally did not also have a GF and so I was taking hits quite often and that negates the capstone. I have taken draco from 70% to dead on my CW when rest of the party took hands to the face (took forever, probably would have been better to just wipe honestly), once mobs are glitched the fight is trivial, but it takes a good CW to glitch those mobs very quickly...
CW is a must have in most dungeons and extremely useful in all dungeons for CC. TR is IMO a must have if you want bosses and elites to die quickly. DC is obviously a must have. The remaining two classes are just not must haves, and you are right that this is a flaw in the game's mechanics but that is currently how it is =/
Edit: I topped damage meter as destroyer too, and at the end of a dungeon I realized first hand how useless that is as my main is a CW and I saw time and time again where having my CW instead would have been far more beneficial.
I love having a CW...I'm greedy like that...group them up!
I've heard that the new content is going to force you to kill adds as well. Maybe with that + no exploitable terrain will make a GWF needed in every party to quickly dispose of trash mobs, that would be nice. Then groups would probably run either 1 of each class or even 2 GWF's
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I've heard that the new content is going to force you to kill adds as well. Maybe with that + no exploitable terrain will make a GWF needed in every party to quickly dispose of trash mobs, that would be nice. Then groups would probably run either 1 of each class or even 2 GWF's
Can you provide a link please as if true this would be a major step forward;)
Although given the Devs' past record I take any claim about no exploitable terrain with a few oceans' worth of salt....
I can look around, I think I heard that from a friend who goes on the preview shard a fair amount
Okay, thanks.
The nerfs are still going to be painful, especially the Slam one which makes no sense anyway, but if you can't instant kill mobs, then maybe groups might starting taking GWFs.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2013
This thread is done. Let's keep to productive and non-provoking topics please.
Comments
... but you're still fun to play!!
This is how it goes on my Destroyer too. I really like the class and path, I love gathering the mobs nice and tight and debuff the heck out of them so the CW can finish them more easily. Or roaring into a crowd of mobs that just laid down some heavy red.
I reckon GWF does well in dungeons where there are not that many cliffs. Thing is, there are not many dungeons without them and that makes the GWF kind of obsolete. Also, GWF has a bad reputation of not being needed.
But personally I would rather have an extra GWF than a TR who's only there to burn the boss.. Bossfights are so much easier when the adds are under control, and a TR on the boss is not on add duty.
Besides the obvious bug fixes though, I think the devs need to remove the hit-cap. It makes no sense to have skills that make the GWF do more damage when he hits more than 3 mobs, but just totally ignores everything over 5. A tanks at-will can hit more mobs than the AoE melee specialist. That's just wrong.
I have a 60 GWF, I've had him for a while now. I have specced him PvE sent, couldn't hold agro as well as GF, uneeded. PvE destroyer, did a ton of damage but I was incredibly squishy compared to sent, I could pull agro but then I died b/c I got too much. And now is strictly PvP sent and he tears up the Arena.
That's where GWF shine, PvP. For the last time the damage meter means absolutely nothing!!! It's about speed and ease of the run.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You tried 2 of the 3 specs. I play the spec you did not try and I top damage meters. I melt packs of mobs faster than a CW when they can't toss the adds and even when they can they still have a hard time keeping up with my damage.
I have taken dracolich from 60% to dead when the TR caught a bad break.
Let me know when a CW can do that and maybe you would have a point.
Again tarmalen I have read many of your posts and agree with you most of the time, and your numbers and facts are always dead on, I'm saying that damage doesn't matter. CW's bring more than damage to the dungeon, and TR's bring the heavy boss damage. I didn't try instigator b/c any group that would take along a GWF generally did not also have a GF and so I was taking hits quite often and that negates the capstone. I have taken draco from 70% to dead on my CW when rest of the party took hands to the face (took forever, probably would have been better to just wipe honestly), once mobs are glitched the fight is trivial, but it takes a good CW to glitch those mobs very quickly...
CW is a must have in most dungeons and extremely useful in all dungeons for CC. TR is IMO a must have if you want bosses and elites to die quickly. DC is obviously a must have. The remaining two classes are just not must haves, and you are right that this is a flaw in the game's mechanics but that is currently how it is =/
Edit: I topped damage meter as destroyer too, and at the end of a dungeon I realized first hand how useless that is as my main is a CW and I saw time and time again where having my CW instead would have been far more beneficial.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Depends on the dungeon. If you mean CN, well, the CW is popping so many adds and monsters throughout there's no way anyone could catch them in DPS. Little different there.
Def agree. I've done all of the things he mentions here. The problem is the general opinion of the GWF and the lack of GOOD players. 95%, if not more, of GWFs are terrible players, it seems to draw in all the fools because of what the class seems to promise, but it requires much more work than you'd expect to get there, leaving most players at the bottom of the pile.
Sadly yes...the more pitch points...the harder I have to strive to at least keep it close. Without pitch points then we rule the chart until final boss and the TR 'wakes up'.
I love having a CW...I'm greedy like that...group them up!
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Can you provide a link please as if true this would be a major step forward;)
Although given the Devs' past record I take any claim about no exploitable terrain with a few oceans' worth of salt....
I can look around, I think I heard that from a friend who goes on the preview shard a fair amount
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Okay, thanks.
The nerfs are still going to be painful, especially the Slam one which makes no sense anyway, but if you can't instant kill mobs, then maybe groups might starting taking GWFs.
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