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Why You dont LFM GWF?
durandurahan
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Today I was login 30minutes before DD event, Iam waiting for 45minutes in PE and I didnt see anyone said LFM GWF.
I usually make my own team and seek my own team mate, but then I decide to watch and see, how many there are people look for GWF, and the result is none, yes not even one person say LFM GWF. I did see in 45minutes people was looking for GF 2 or 3, then alot of LFM TR (who knows shortcuts and skip bosses), LFM CW (who exp'd to solo SP) and LFM DC.
Please tell me, when you looking for players to join your group, why you dont LFM GWF?
(GUILD MEMBER NOT INCLUDED, 100% PUG)
*pls GWF players dont reply, I want to see reply from CW/DC/TR/GF
I usually make my own team and seek my own team mate, but then I decide to watch and see, how many there are people look for GWF, and the result is none, yes not even one person say LFM GWF. I did see in 45minutes people was looking for GF 2 or 3, then alot of LFM TR (who knows shortcuts and skip bosses), LFM CW (who exp'd to solo SP) and LFM DC.
Please tell me, when you looking for players to join your group, why you dont LFM GWF?
(GUILD MEMBER NOT INCLUDED, 100% PUG)
*pls GWF players dont reply, I want to see reply from CW/DC/TR/GF
Post edited by durandurahan on
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Comments
I'm a TR.
1 tank to hold agro (GF)
1 healer (DC)
1 CC (CW)
2 DPS (TR or GWF)
Sometimes you need 2 CC, leaving 1 DPS slot. Or other odd combinations. But the point is, GWF is "generic DPS slot". No one "needs" a GWF. There is no content where you say "Oh man, we can't do that without a GWF." You can easily say "We can't do that without a healer/CC/tank", and you can definitely say "we need DPS for this". But GWF is not singled out vs TR - you are "generic".
So to be a "needed" class you have to be incredibly geared, well specced, and really know how to play your character. Kolatmaster aka leeroy jenkins has his gear set and build posted in the barracks, I've run with him in a bunch of dungeons and he is an asset to any team. He does however have 13k GS and a perfect lightning enchant to hold agro.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
At the end of every dungeon or Skirmish we get the result screen.
Every player likes to see his name on top, TR's for dps, GF'S for damage absorbed, CW's for kills and DC's for heals.
If there is a GWF in party, he will be first place for dps, damage absorbed and kills.
so other classes do not invite GWF.(Jealousy perhaps)
i'm speaking from experience, cuz i'm always first place as Paingiver, Immovable Object and Executioner.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
please dont bring guild, and with shortcut, bugged, everyone can do dungeon less than 1hour. (just want to make a point that GWF is not the reason why you finish DG in less than 1hour).
Ha ha - funny joke. Oh you are serious....
With equivalent gear and skill there is no way this is going to happen. If you want to have such a patently ridiculous claim taken seriously show us a video of your GWF going up against a good TR from a well-known guild, say Crush It or Lemonade Stand.
If not, then you are just talk (or using an exploit)...
Well you would be disappointed if my dps DC was in that group, I regularly beat them for damage done and kills.
As for people not LFM GWF, I find most people don't really know what that class can do because it's been left out of groups alot for so long. Although I have seen LFM GWF/TR/CW before when they want one of the above.
Ok maybe they have a hard time beating a cookie cutter executioner build. But not all TR builds are high damage some give more survivability/stealth at the expense of doing as much damage.
my dps DC has beaten TR and GWF for damage alot. Now if she's the only cleric in a group and the people don't know what they are doing she sometimes does a bit less because they are expecting her to babysit them. Every class can do damage if they spec for it.
So you got called out, and did a rapid about-face.
But now your 'argument' is that a GWF build 'might' be able to beat a TR build that hugely sacrifices DPS? Not to mention that pointing out that a DC can beat a GWF in DPS doesn't help matters...
Either compare classes with equally skilled players and equivalent gear or not at all.
If you want your opinions to be taken seriously then show us video evidence (although personal testimony from the players concerned will do of course) of your DC or GWF beating good players from a decent guild. If not, even if people are inclined to believe you, all you have shown is that there are players out there whom you either out-gear or out-skill.
LOL! I seriously laughed out loud at work, and got a couple funny looks from co workers. Let me say this nicely, as a CW and TR that almost always top damage done, and a GF that has topped damage taken and damage done in the same run... The damage meter does not matter at all!!
What matters is a smooth run. If I'm last place in DPS the entire run but I can bump mobs like a pro and have them all glitched within 2 minutes on draco then my group loves me, and I personally made the run much much easier. Can a GWF bump mobs? Can a GWF out DPS a TR single target? Does trash mob damage matter in the least? Is the damage meter any indication of how well I am playing?
The answer to all these questions is no. What matters is a smooth and fast run, and that is attained easiest without a GWF in most cases. As I have stated in the past Kolatmaster aka leeroy jenkins is an exception, but has 13k GS and a perfect lightning enchant.
So incredibly geared and skilled GWF's can work, but we're definitely moving in the wrong direction with the upcoming survivability nerf.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
CW main here... TR/GF/DC/GWF alts.
first off you assumed I have a GWF, I do not play the class but I have beaten good GWF from my guild for damage. I have seen a good GWF beat a good executioner TR for damage, and not with either having top gear. Essentially in AoE fights, GWF > TR in most cases but if there aren't alot of adds TR > GWF in most cases. I see GWF's damage spike in AOE fights and TR's damage spike in fights against a few tough guys. And no I did not say a GWF might beat a TR that sacrifices stealth I said they might beat the cookie cutter high dps spec, and I would say they are about on par with the TR that sacrifices some damage for survivability (which is mostly in the form of burst damage and not overall damage but translates to be lower if stuff dies fast).
Yes I have a dps specced cleric, you seem to be one of those people that assume they cannot do damage so there is no point in arguing with you on that account. I guess you have never seen a cleric blow people up in PvP or do top damage before because you only accept support spec ones into your parties. Having said that if there is a GWF in a group with my dps specced DC they are second for damage unless they have no clue what they are doing. But you are going to discount it anyways out out of disbelief even though clerics have one paragon path devoted to this sort of spec.
Iam really interest in "most GWF have no clue in how to play their classes". Please enlighten me of how GWF should play.
So you don't even play the class you are talking about, let alone at a high level.
I note that there is nothing here about single target damage which you were talking about initially....
And now you have totally given up on your (ridiculous) assertion that GWF can beat TR on single target damage and are now trying to confuse the issue by throwing adds into the picture?
So you:
1) Don't play the class you are talking about.
2) Your 'evidence' that GWF can challenge TR single target damage is based on an example of a GWF beating a TR in OVERALL damage.
3) You are now backtracking even further and trying to confuse the issue by including adds??????
Just as a reminder here is your first post:
No wonder you backed down so quickly when I asked you to back up your claim that GWF can challenge TR for single target damage by posting a video ...
P.s. Loved your quote about
when you don't even play the class.....
GF here.
Gwf is not a DPS. It would be with slow and weak adds coming four by four. Zombie kind. Not five zombies though, because the gwf's "meleee AOE" is capped to 4. But adds in dungeons are not slow zombies. The're fast, they jump, they charge, they debuff, they prone.
Off-tank, then? Just lol. gwf is the only class that will run away when caght inside a red circle/trapezoid. No taunt either. And keeping aggro through damage? Which damage?
Someone in the forum suggested that gwf was fine for reviving killed members of the group. Gwf as a off-healer, sort of.
please keep this thread on the topic. Personally, I want to know why GWF has become the most rarer class to pick, I can figure it my self, but I just want to know from different point of view and for generally, I want this thread become somelike a suggestion, an aye opening to Devs so they can make things better.
They can't - it turned out that the person pushing that line the most hasn't even played a GWF...
Easy enough, it is because GWFs are the least wanted for PvE Dungeons, and everyone knows this.
The way Dungeons are setup, a party needs healing/mitigation, boss DPS and and trash mob killing/controlling power.
Well the need for a DC is obvious, TRs are by far the best boss DPS, and CWs have a lot of control powers and can instant-kill most mobs by pushing them off ledges. You might want a GF to 'tank' (in reality just kite) trash mobs, e.g. in Frozen heart where you can't instant kill them, but that is it.
A GWF by comparison is not as good in any of these roles and it is almost always better to bring another CW.
From the start of the game Dungeons have almost always been best run with three classes: DC, TR and CW, and it is just a matter of how many of each of these to bring.
Yes, it is an idiotic system, but until the Devs stop the instant killing of mobs by being able to push them over ledges, GWFs will always be the least wanted class.
I blow his doors off when there is lots of mobs.
CW can only surpass me when he tosses due to him getting credit for the health of the mob.
Otherwise he isn't close.
TR only when we get to end boss and he can shine where as I am on add control.
I usually have 1mil+ lead on the TR ...but after the boss we are neck and neck and switch the lead depending on the run.
As it happens, I DO have a GWF that has endgame gear, and I HAVE tried the destroyer spec with avatar of war 4/4, vigil+ava 2/2 sets, all of that. Want to know something? My DPS on ADDS AND ADDS ALONE is higher than TR/CW, but my single target DPS pales in comparison to my equally geared TR. GWF is the king of PvP however, and that is the only place they are really wanted, and only when specced correctly.
LOL it is kind of your duty to "babysit" the team, since you are only healing class in group, scratch that - in game. What is the point of having a DPS cleric in team that views healing(their main job until more trees/ classes are introduced) as burden. I better give youre spot to a second CW or one GWF if it has two already. Nothing can beat crowd control (Singularity rotation FTW!) and i like having a GWF as an off tank. Do not get me wrong, you can walk on youre head for all i care if there is sufficient healing, but more often then not i see DPS clerics that pretend they are rouges so rest of the team can go to hell for all they care.
That was of topic. So back to it, most people have no idea what role GWFs are suppose to fill so the chalk them off with DPS. Most believe that a TR can do this job hands down better so we see no specific GWF requests in chat. I view them mostly as an off tank and aoe. Besides as both DC and CW player i feel safer with two tanky classes in team. Lets hope as more content is released we will see a better role definition for GWFs.
Debuff and damage mitigation is a clerics main job not healing. Healing is secondary even for faithful specced clerics. You clearly do not understand the class. All my dps skills on my dps specced cleric debuff the enemy except lance of faith. I have repurpose soul heals as well as sunburst and soothing light. I don't ignore other teammates if they are in trouble but I do expect them to use potions. Potions are the best source of healing not clerics. The reason it might appear to some that clerics are best at healing is their damage mitigation skills not their healing skills.
Anyways I'm out of this thread after this post because it is quickly becoming a circus.
Also we are losing a ton of damage next patch so yeah....
These requests for an Improved GWF have been going on Since Open beta, GWF got a single buff of note. The unstoppable Temp hitpoints. That made them have survivability on par with the GF. But with half the threat of a GF and half the single target DPS of a rogue and the fact they can't do TR (shortcuts) in dungeons means they have no place in Dungeons. It does not matter how tough they are if they can't make the threat to use this to the parties advantage.
And yet with all the points about how GWF struggles and how many many players wont bother with them in groups with a dozen different reasons as to why. The Devs decide to Nerf the classes main PvE damage Daily, Slam... and make it a Utility power that stuns. Yet the GWF already has one that does that, Avalanche of steel. But the move is so slow with so little damage no one uses it.
They could easily buff that move to give the GWF some add control in PVE but no they want to nerf the class.
Shortcut, ability to throw adds (especially in boss fight), campfire mechanic, bugged, glitch have made this class dead (and GF too). Anymore to add?