adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited August 2013
I think this step will go a long way towards making the economy healthier....sure, it may be nice to be able to buy the T2 gear at rock bottom prices, but it kind-of takes the challenge away.
Sure, people may have harder time making money by farming, but presumably, each piece that drops BoE will be more valuable than before.
If this was combined with a fix to the current exploits, I would be a lot more optimistic about the long-term viability of the game than I currently am.
Hoping for improvements...
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powereddjinnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited August 2013
The exploits and why they exist will never get fixed unless someone has a change of heart on design and testing policy!
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
edited August 2013
Remove DD event, make the DD chest a daily mission, not a selectable BoP item. It Will fix the economy, the crazy runs and expoits during DDs and wont make some players leave.
A lot of misconceptions in this thread, so, let's try to correct this:
- the final boss can drop T2 set items currently. This shouldn't change. You will be able to sell it. People will still buy T2 set items, since the chest T2 drop rates won't be increased.
- some non T2 boss lots are very valuable and have great stats. And i'm not talking about rings and belts. You'll have to learn how and where you can get these items! I know some bosses dropping VERY interesting items. Prices will go up. You better clear all bosses now, skipping one will be a bad idea. Do you guys know where the "icon of the divine conduit" drops? This is a boss drop only item with T2 stats. You can't get this from a chest. Such items will be soon very valuable.
- these changes should drive some good players towards shorter and easier dungeons like cloak tower and pirate king. Definitely not a bad move. Since farming all dungeons should be more profitable, some people will want to farm rough ADs too. We might also see teams starting to farm epic DV since it drops very unique items. And i'm not going to complain about that!
I hope this comes with a greater chance from the bosses to drop Tier gear. Right now, Spellplague drops Insignia and Boots of Sovereignity 99% of the time and every other boss is the same.
Destroying the economy ftw!
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
This change is just going to make players hate each other even more.
Right now tons of people run DD in pugs because they know its the one thing they can do and guarantee some progress. During non DD, they may get nothing as people may need on everything, especially stuff they don't want. There are a few good people out there who won't.
Now those few good people will be extremely encouraged to need on end boss drops. Say a rogue in spellplague see the swash helm - he of course already has it since its a pretty freakin difficult fight to the point most rogues without it barely get to run it..
Now he knows the end chest will have minimal rewards only worth a handful of AD, while that helm will be worth tons.
Further encouraging players to screw each other over.
Bad design.
I could support if it you took out the terrible tech that prevents other classes from needed on items. It was much fairer before and resulted in less community outlash. (and the complaints were all from casuals who didnt have much luck on the DD chest - something that will be much less likely now)
I mean the OP is a bit unclear. it sounds like you're guaranteed to get the exact item you want in 1 run. But I doubt thats the case, either way it sounds a lot easier, so giving that one rogue/cw/dc/etc an item that sells for ~200-1000k ad, plus the exact helm he wants in the chest, while everyone else gets next to nothing, is quite unfair. Everyone should get a fair roll.
Sounds Great and I agree with new classes. I am a relative newcomer to NW, but am loving it. I do, however, miss my longbow ranged class of hunter. That could be a great addition, imo.
Boss drops are worthless because the number of items being flooded into the market. With less items going into the market prices will increase.
Castle Never isn't the be all and end all of everything. Castle Never only drops Necklaces, Rings and Ancient Weapons and Off-Hands.
The items such as helmets and boots have retained their value from being in harder to complete dungeons (Spellplague and Frozen Heart) while arms, and offhands are extremely cheap for being in the easier T2 Dungeons (Pirate King and Karrundax)
Without 5 drops per dungeon during dungeon delves being added into the economy the supply drops and the values will increase.
This is basic economics.
You are completely wrong because you forgot a very important element, DEMAND. With any armor set a player wants is guaranteed to be just a matter of running a few DD's, there will be virtually 0 demand for any armor sets/pieces in AH. Reducing the supply will not make the price go up when you completely eliminate the demand at the same time.
This is an obvious ploy to reduce the amount of AD that you can earn by grinding, forcing, or at least pushing people to the Zen store to aquire items that they can no longer buy for AD, because they can't make enough AD any more to be able to afford them. However, it is possible that the price of everything in AH will drop because no one will be able to afford the current prices after the new DD chest rules happen.
I understood it. As I said he left out crucial economic factors. you didnt talk about demand, as a new player why would I buy the t2 sets worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AD where I can choose to get the set I want for my character and that it takes only a few runs rather than spending AD, which is harder to get after patch than ever right? its pretty simple why make things so complicated.
I think we both have different perspectives of the demand in the market. I don't think your wrong at all, its just so hard to predict how the gaming population will be affected by this patch and how they demand for t2 items is unpredictable. So far everything is up to speculation.
I've talked to many of my guildies and we all agreed that little will get sold if it become extremely easy to obtain t2 items. This pushes much of the community to end game. where I feel like it lacks as well.
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
anarchyjack1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited August 2013
Ok I don't have anything beyond anecdotal evidence, so take this as you will. I've run ALOT of DD like almost a hundred, All T2's. I have almost 1500 Drake seals( which I guess I better spend before they are made useless not that they buy much worthwhile right now.)
Maybe I'm just unlucky but I think I've seen in all my runs less than 10 T2 armor pieces of any type from DD chests. So players getting all their gear in 5 runs because they can chose which set piece they want? Not Going to Happen! The DD chests give you garbage 90% of the time, I think I get a brawlers belt of guts every day.
Plus the boss drops? well yeah they drop a set piece less than 10% of the time as well. The other drops? Complete garbage. Oh and seal gear is now BOP? Cryptic you realize it's the new players that are going to get screwed over the most by this?
You know as much as I enjoy the combat mechanics in this game I think it may be reaching the best before date for me.
You are completely wrong because you forgot a very important element, DEMAND. With any armor set a player wants is guaranteed to be just a matter of running a few DD's, there will be virtually 0 demand for any armor sets/pieces in AH. Reducing the supply will not make the price go up when you completely eliminate the demand at the same time.
With the DD set chose option, yes its what will happen.... no demand
Not sure if the ten percent price reduction is going to cut it, lets say I buy an enchant for 10k on the AH, why would I pay 50-60K AD to unslot it if I can just buy another one?? Unslotting should be free, or cost gold.
Not sure if the ten percent price reduction is going to cut it, lets say I buy an enchant for 10k on the AH, why would I pay 50-60K AD to unslot it if I can just buy another one?? Unslotting should be free, or cost gold.
Absolutely. 90% of the time when I want to upgrade an enchant on a piece of gear, it's cheaper just to buy another of the same gear and put a better enchant in it than to remove the old one, even factoring in that you can sell the old enchant.
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anarchyjack1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited August 2013
So 90% of the good rings and amulets(grand versions power crit recovery, power crit apenn) come from DD chests. I don't think I'v even seen them drop anywhere else and I've only got a couple in my hundred or so T2 DD. Sure enough while they were going for 15k yesterday they are almost completely absent from the AH today. The ones that remain are like 200k. Combine this with making seal gear BOP and again your hurting new players the most.
People who are lauding the devs for this decision are ignorant and out touch with how the game operates, just like the devs.
I've never understood the fanboy mentality I'm sure you want to believe that the decisons made for your favorite game or company are always good ones, but seriously use your head, bad decisions need to be criticized.
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kelletonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
anarchyjack1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited August 2013
Let me put this in a perspective that the devs might care about. You want players to keep playing your game to keep logging in for some reason, for those of us that have beat the game so far DD gives us a reason to log in to try and make some money. Now there's no reason to do that or run dungeons because you have your stuff and you won't get anything to sell. Why bother showing up? Maybe to farm CN but thats about it. And the new player trying to get their gear will have trouble finding groups and even more trouble finishing the dungeon because they are all inexperienced and T2 dungeons are very unforgiving. And when they do finally complete it a couple times they don't get the T2 they were promised because DD's give garbage 90% of the time so they get even more frustrated.
So experianced players go find a different game to play and new players will give up in frustration as well.
The only thing for sure is that once Sharandar goes live demand for Enchanted Keys and Coalescent wards are going to go through the roof for a bit - both available to cash players to hawk for AD (though with enough luck you can get Coalescent wards but it relies on luck, cash is quicker).
For non cash players the revenue streams are choking down to running T2's or Castle Never and hoping like hell you get lucky with the roll on a possible good drop (and possibly enchantments from Master of the hunt). The salvager offers 10k currently on Mimic for T2 equipment AND it's rough diamonds so your max income stream is 24k a day without drop luck no matter what you do. Lets not forget that most experienced runners for T2 will not bother with it any more and head straight for CN - limited training for new players means a lot more frustration at PUG wipes, combine that with random rolls and you have a recipe for incredibly frustrating long runs that will just amount to crying on the boards for weeks.
The only clear result is that cash players will end up with everything, non-cash players will have to rely on the RNG.
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darkstorn42Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I approve all of these changes. Any change is desired to make the game move forward, good or bad. Their desire to change things is positive. There has yet to be any major changes that I disapproved of yet. Please keep up the hard work Cryptic/PW
all are rough diamonds. with this changes people who spend time in leadership have waste his time in pj if they go do anything.leadership do all rougth diamos you can refine, if for do any you win more leadership=<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> profession if we can refine only 24k AD each day.
For me bad change all i do for have a god income for leadership all this months now not work at all.
you want ppl to quit your game dont you -.- binding loot and letting the user choose what he gets out of the chest? whats the purpose of the ah? you're going to destroy the economy with this. IF this does happen at least make it 100% chance for boss to drop an item exclusive to the dungeon, like Dracolich.
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realboMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
binding loot on chest ? now what is the option for new players ...just wait for queue to enter dungeon ..hoping they got lucky to have a party that will be good enough to finish the extremely epic dungeon ... for players that have complete set what will they do now? just go CN ...they probably wont waste time in T1 / T2 coz u cant sell the items that u will get in chest ...i dont mind not getting the specific set for me coz still i have the option to sell it ur trade it to the set part that i want ....agreed with the other changes ... but binding the loot on chest , i totally disagree with this ...hoping it will not be implemented ...
so i went in to test this and it was ok. 10k RAD for a tier 2 sword from my gf which is still pretty neat. a good way to get a few diamonds
the only thing i didnt like is that the crowns of neverwinter that i stockpiled hoping to trade them in for the AD werent able to be salvaged. ;~; its a nice change to getting 1 gold though
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kettemannMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited August 2013
So... what is the salvage rate on my purple epic's going to be?
The changes to the loot in dd sound good to me but i will reserve final judgement when i see the effects.
The only thing i don't really like is that salvaging epic items will give RAD. I think refined AD would be much better but we'll see.
The good thing is, that dungeons will be worth it now outside the dd event, wich is a good thing. The only people that have to rely on the event will be the ones that are still farming for their T-set. For others it won't make much of a difference when you go in a dungeon. And I always thought i sucked that dungeons were worthless outside the event. With these changes nothing will stop you from doing maybe as many as 10 or 15 dungeons a day, each time with a small but realistic chance to get a good drop from a boss that you can sell for a really good price in the ah. At the moment, only very few items are worth a decent amount of AD, that will change.
And for the people that are in a panic now, because no one will buy anything in the ah: You are overestimating the average player. For many players finishing a T2 ini is quite a challange and even if you do, the chances to get a set item are not so great. So there will be enough players with little patience and/or little skill that will keep buying from the ah. Also, the boss drops, that are absolutly worthless at the moment, will be more valueable. At the moment the vast majority of players don't give them a second glance, because the market is flooded with set items, some of them at rediculous low prices. Some ofthese drops are not bad at all- not as good as the set items- but not bad. And i think that a lot of players will go for them, at least for a transitional period of time until they can get their own T-sets.
The oppotunity to make AD with the AH will still be there. Set Items will have to be earned or be bought at pretty high prices (as it should be- a T2 set should be a goal not a minimal reqirement). Maybe i am wrong, but i don't see many negative effects these changes will have.
Comments
Sure, people may have harder time making money by farming, but presumably, each piece that drops BoE will be more valuable than before.
If this was combined with a fix to the current exploits, I would be a lot more optimistic about the long-term viability of the game than I currently am.
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- the final boss can drop T2 set items currently. This shouldn't change. You will be able to sell it. People will still buy T2 set items, since the chest T2 drop rates won't be increased.
- some non T2 boss lots are very valuable and have great stats. And i'm not talking about rings and belts. You'll have to learn how and where you can get these items! I know some bosses dropping VERY interesting items. Prices will go up. You better clear all bosses now, skipping one will be a bad idea. Do you guys know where the "icon of the divine conduit" drops? This is a boss drop only item with T2 stats. You can't get this from a chest. Such items will be soon very valuable.
- these changes should drive some good players towards shorter and easier dungeons like cloak tower and pirate king. Definitely not a bad move. Since farming all dungeons should be more profitable, some people will want to farm rough ADs too. We might also see teams starting to farm epic DV since it drops very unique items. And i'm not going to complain about that!
Destroying the economy ftw!
Right now tons of people run DD in pugs because they know its the one thing they can do and guarantee some progress. During non DD, they may get nothing as people may need on everything, especially stuff they don't want. There are a few good people out there who won't.
Now those few good people will be extremely encouraged to need on end boss drops. Say a rogue in spellplague see the swash helm - he of course already has it since its a pretty freakin difficult fight to the point most rogues without it barely get to run it..
Now he knows the end chest will have minimal rewards only worth a handful of AD, while that helm will be worth tons.
Further encouraging players to screw each other over.
Bad design.
I could support if it you took out the terrible tech that prevents other classes from needed on items. It was much fairer before and resulted in less community outlash. (and the complaints were all from casuals who didnt have much luck on the DD chest - something that will be much less likely now)
I mean the OP is a bit unclear. it sounds like you're guaranteed to get the exact item you want in 1 run. But I doubt thats the case, either way it sounds a lot easier, so giving that one rogue/cw/dc/etc an item that sells for ~200-1000k ad, plus the exact helm he wants in the chest, while everyone else gets next to nothing, is quite unfair. Everyone should get a fair roll.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
You are completely wrong because you forgot a very important element, DEMAND. With any armor set a player wants is guaranteed to be just a matter of running a few DD's, there will be virtually 0 demand for any armor sets/pieces in AH. Reducing the supply will not make the price go up when you completely eliminate the demand at the same time.
This is an obvious ploy to reduce the amount of AD that you can earn by grinding, forcing, or at least pushing people to the Zen store to aquire items that they can no longer buy for AD, because they can't make enough AD any more to be able to afford them. However, it is possible that the price of everything in AH will drop because no one will be able to afford the current prices after the new DD chest rules happen.
I think we both have different perspectives of the demand in the market. I don't think your wrong at all, its just so hard to predict how the gaming population will be affected by this patch and how they demand for t2 items is unpredictable. So far everything is up to speculation.
I've talked to many of my guildies and we all agreed that little will get sold if it become extremely easy to obtain t2 items. This pushes much of the community to end game. where I feel like it lacks as well.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
Maybe I'm just unlucky but I think I've seen in all my runs less than 10 T2 armor pieces of any type from DD chests. So players getting all their gear in 5 runs because they can chose which set piece they want? Not Going to Happen! The DD chests give you garbage 90% of the time, I think I get a brawlers belt of guts every day.
Plus the boss drops? well yeah they drop a set piece less than 10% of the time as well. The other drops? Complete garbage. Oh and seal gear is now BOP? Cryptic you realize it's the new players that are going to get screwed over the most by this?
You know as much as I enjoy the combat mechanics in this game I think it may be reaching the best before date for me.
With the DD set chose option, yes its what will happen.... no demand
- the compromise of BoP/BoE equipment.
- L60 Daily
I'm also glad I hung onto the old purple gear in the hopes the salvage man would make a return visit
Good job devs.
Absolutely. 90% of the time when I want to upgrade an enchant on a piece of gear, it's cheaper just to buy another of the same gear and put a better enchant in it than to remove the old one, even factoring in that you can sell the old enchant.
People who are lauding the devs for this decision are ignorant and out touch with how the game operates, just like the devs.
I've never understood the fanboy mentality I'm sure you want to believe that the decisons made for your favorite game or company are always good ones, but seriously use your head, bad decisions need to be criticized.
Remove dungeon delves event - make daily quest
problem solved
So experianced players go find a different game to play and new players will give up in frustration as well.
For non cash players the revenue streams are choking down to running T2's or Castle Never and hoping like hell you get lucky with the roll on a possible good drop (and possibly enchantments from Master of the hunt). The salvager offers 10k currently on Mimic for T2 equipment AND it's rough diamonds so your max income stream is 24k a day without drop luck no matter what you do. Lets not forget that most experienced runners for T2 will not bother with it any more and head straight for CN - limited training for new players means a lot more frustration at PUG wipes, combine that with random rolls and you have a recipe for incredibly frustrating long runs that will just amount to crying on the boards for weeks.
The only clear result is that cash players will end up with everything, non-cash players will have to rely on the RNG.
For me bad change all i do for have a god income for leadership all this months now not work at all.
I do like the sound of this it is a good move in the right direction game wise
BLOOD neverwinter wiki - http://neverwinteronline.wikia.com/wiki/NeverwinterOnline_Wiki
the only thing i didnt like is that the crowns of neverwinter that i stockpiled hoping to trade them in for the AD werent able to be salvaged. ;~; its a nice change to getting 1 gold though
The only thing i don't really like is that salvaging epic items will give RAD. I think refined AD would be much better but we'll see.
The good thing is, that dungeons will be worth it now outside the dd event, wich is a good thing. The only people that have to rely on the event will be the ones that are still farming for their T-set. For others it won't make much of a difference when you go in a dungeon. And I always thought i sucked that dungeons were worthless outside the event. With these changes nothing will stop you from doing maybe as many as 10 or 15 dungeons a day, each time with a small but realistic chance to get a good drop from a boss that you can sell for a really good price in the ah. At the moment, only very few items are worth a decent amount of AD, that will change.
And for the people that are in a panic now, because no one will buy anything in the ah: You are overestimating the average player. For many players finishing a T2 ini is quite a challange and even if you do, the chances to get a set item are not so great. So there will be enough players with little patience and/or little skill that will keep buying from the ah. Also, the boss drops, that are absolutly worthless at the moment, will be more valueable. At the moment the vast majority of players don't give them a second glance, because the market is flooded with set items, some of them at rediculous low prices. Some ofthese drops are not bad at all- not as good as the set items- but not bad. And i think that a lot of players will go for them, at least for a transitional period of time until they can get their own T-sets.
The oppotunity to make AD with the AH will still be there. Set Items will have to be earned or be bought at pretty high prices (as it should be- a T2 set should be a goal not a minimal reqirement). Maybe i am wrong, but i don't see many negative effects these changes will have.