1% here! rank 8 enchants about 10m worth of gears, my impact i've seen at most hit 17k crit(with stone of ioun). Lurker's hitting 30k impact is very rare.
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Best ranged = Rogue - Impact shot 20k and as my cleric friend likes to say. Dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger. OMG MAKE IT STOP dagger, dagger, dagger-- sorry guys I am dead.
Best melee = Rogue = Lashing blade 20-30k or 40k + on geared players
Best utility = Rogue= smoke bomb, stealth, immune, cc
A rogue has the best of everything best dailys, SE hits 3 times harder then Ice Knife no comparison.
Lol do you just hate the idea of stealth class? You seriously will say anything to have TR's nerfed, why do you despise this class? What are you going to say when people realize "Oh GF was actually 10 times stronger than TR in PvP, guess we should nerf him to the ground". Are you still going to say, yes yes this is good for game balancing?
Best Ranged = CW - Ice Knife 25-40k, when daily is down CC until they die. If you're fighting a TR and get hit by lashing blade you're simply bad and can't dodge. BTW before you whine that I'm comparing a daily to an encounter TR's need lurkers in its current state to come close to the damage you report them doing, so they're using daily + their class ability (stealth) + damage buffing passives + incredible gear. 10k CW can easily crit for 25k+ with simply daily alone.
Best melee = Single target - Rogue - as it should be. AOE = GWF. However in PvP survivability is a huge factor so actually largest burst + most survivability = GF. My GF that just hit 60 and is still wearing some blue's can crit for 30k + with just 2 encounters, don't even need a daily... and can of course block 100% of incoming damage lol
Best Utility = CW or GF - again if you have a brain and it processes information you won't get hit by TR cc. however CW can take icy rays (root) entangling force (stun) icicle (stun) and repel (huge knockback) and still do great damage. And GF can keep almost any class prone until their death if all their cooldowns are up.
Also SE does not hit for 120k so your ending statement is just dumb. How about you open your eyes to the overpowered things that all classes (except DC, but they can keep everyone else alive for ungodly long) have and stop just focusing on the ASSASSIN character and its ability to ASSASSINATE low survivability characters if played well.
If you think TR is op and all other classes are "in line" you just aren't able to think logically and so there is no debating with you.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Sigh you make it sound like they get 6 encounters at once they don't they get 3. If they are perma stealth build 2 are eaten up with shadow strike and bait and switch which leaves one left. If they take ITC they get no lashing blade or smoke or dazing strike or impact shot or path of the blade.
stealth also does not mean invisible or silent you can hear stealthed rogues activate things(like lurkers which can be bumped off before they can even use it) from a mile and a half away learn the sounds.
All your numbers are flat out wrong. Last but not least Shocking execution is not even worth certing anymore, and Ice Knife most assuredly does hit for more than SE does.
I do not believe for an instant a 60k hit by a rogue on a rogue, and hell all it takes is a strong southwest wind to hit a rogue and it will drop dead.
I feel bad enough for them when I make them go splat but considering the changes on the test shard I feel even worse for them.
Maybe they should give them an inherent 35% chance to deflect , and have their dex give them an AC bonus of 1 for every 3 points. As it is they are entirely to easy to hit regardless of stealth and when you do hit them they explode LOL!
Seriously, since GWF and GF are now going to out dmg them why not give them more mitigation, it's not like GWF and GF would not still mitigate even more as they currently stand.
The proposed changes to the rogue class are just silly, and not warranted... especially without a complete reworking of the classes feats and powers. They nerfed them more than enough the last time around, just leave the poor guys alone.
Best melee = Single target - Rogue - as it should be. AOE = GWF. However in PvP survivability is a huge factor so actually largest burst + most survivability = GF. My GF that just hit 60 and is still wearing some blue's can crit for 30k + with just 2 encounters, don't even need a daily... and can of course block 100% of incoming damage lol
GF blocking can be used to block TR SE too. I have experienced it by using SE on a GF with Block activated, and the GF blocked my SE.
Lol do you just hate the idea of stealth class? You seriously will say anything to have TR's nerfed, why do you despise this class? What are you going to say when people realize "Oh GF was actually 10 times stronger than TR in PvP, guess we should nerf him to the ground". Are you still going to say, yes yes this is good for game balancing?
Best Ranged = CW - Ice Knife 25-40k, when daily is down CC until they die. If you're fighting a TR and get hit by lashing blade you're simply bad and can't dodge. BTW before you whine that I'm comparing a daily to an encounter TR's need lurkers in its current state to come close to the damage you report them doing, so they're using daily + their class ability (stealth) + damage buffing passives + incredible gear. 10k CW can easily crit for 25k+ with simply daily alone.
Best melee = Single target - Rogue - as it should be. AOE = GWF. However in PvP survivability is a huge factor so actually largest burst + most survivability = GF. My GF that just hit 60 and is still wearing some blue's can crit for 30k + with just 2 encounters, don't even need a daily... and can of course block 100% of incoming damage lol
Best Utility = CW or GF - again if you have a brain and it processes information you won't get hit by TR cc. however CW can take icy rays (root) entangling force (stun) icicle (stun) and repel (huge knockback) and still do great damage. And GF can keep almost any class prone until their death if all their cooldowns are up.
Also SE does not hit for 120k so your ending statement is just dumb. How about you open your eyes to the overpowered things that all classes (except DC, but they can keep everyone else alive for ungodly long) have and stop just focusing on the ASSASSIN character and its ability to ASSASSINATE low survivability characters if played well.
If you think TR is op and all other classes are "in line" you just aren't able to think logically and so there is no debating with you.
Well GF isn't 10 times stronger in PvP so there is no problem there. Rogues as I see it and threw the months have seen many many post by other players list the reasons they are completely out of whack. Even with these adjustments rogue will still be tops in PvP so that's saying something about where they stand currently.
Next. Ice Knife hits for 5-10k damage on rare occasions it will do real damage if someone is first and only debuffed and the CW is running tons of Arm pen. Where a SE on T1 gear rogue can hit harder there is no comparison. You can just ignore Ice knife damage and the only good thing is the prone but by no means a great finisher like SE. If Ice Knife hit as hard as SE then CW's be a lot tougher to deal with and would stand a lil better of a chance vs a rogue.
So you are comparing a GF's 2 skills to a rogues 8million don't see it. A CW can have great control and should hence its name but a rogue can CC then be immune dodge, tumble away go stealth dagger kill full heal rinse repeat without leaving a base. While stunning with a ranged attack OP and 2 shotting with it so I feel a rogue utility with stealth is just to much cause there damage is to much currently. Bring there damage down to where a CW's is and then the rogues utility won't be as bad.
My ending statement is Ice Knife hits for 5k-10k almost everytime. A rogues SE times 3= 15k-30k yes it hits that hard. So SE is 3 times as strong by the correct numbers.
Sigh you make it sound like they get 6 encounters at once they don't they get 3. If they are perma stealth build 2 are eaten up with shadow strike and bait and switch which leaves one left. If they take ITC they get no lashing blade or smoke or dazing strike or impact shot or path of the blade.
stealth also does not mean invisible or silent you can hear stealthed rogues activate things(like lurkers which can be bumped off before they can even use it) from a mile and a half away learn the sounds.
All your numbers are flat out wrong. Last but not least Shocking execution is not even worth certing anymore, and Ice Knife most assuredly does hit for more than SE does.
I do not believe for an instant a 60k hit by a rogue on a rogue, and hell all it takes is a strong southwest wind to hit a rogue and it will drop dead.
I feel bad enough for them when I make them go splat but considering the changes on the test shard I feel even worse for them.
Maybe they should give them an inherent 35% chance to deflect , and have their dex give them an AC bonus of 1 for every 3 points. As it is they are entirely to easy to hit regardless of stealth and when you do hit them they explode LOL!
Seriously, since GWF and GF are now going to out dmg them why not give them more mitigation, it's not like GWF and GF would not still mitigate even more as they currently stand.
The proposed changes to the rogue class are just silly, and not warranted... especially without a complete reworking of the classes feats and powers. They nerfed them more than enough the last time around, just leave the poor guys alone.
A rogue can already tank because there is nothing it can't do. I doubt they need a def buff then there be no reason to use any other class.
Next. Ice Knife hits for 5-10k damage on rare occasions it will do real damage if someone is first and only debuffed and the CW is running tons of Arm pen. Where a SE on T1 gear rogue can hit harder there is no comparison. You can just ignore Ice knife damage and the only good thing is the prone but by no means a great finisher like SE. If Ice Knife hit as hard as SE then CW's be a lot tougher to deal with and would stand a lil better of a chance vs a rogue.
So you are comparing a GF's 2 skills to a rogues 8million don't see it. A CW can have great control and should hence its name but a rogue can CC then be immune dodge, tumble away go stealth dagger kill full heal rinse repeat without leaving a base. While stunning with a ranged attack OP and 2 shotting with it so I feel a rogue utility with stealth is just to much cause there damage is to much currently. Bring there damage down to where a CW's is and then the rogues utility won't be as bad.
My ending statement is Ice Knife hits for 5k-10k almost everytime. A rogues SE times 3= 15k-30k yes it hits that hard. So SE is 3 times as strong by the correct numbers.
Ok now we're just reverting to bold faced lies? My CW hits TR's CW's and DC's for 75-100% of their health every single domination match I play. The insane rogue crits you list are rogues with BiS gear and Tene's, while a CW can do as much with an ice knife at 10k GS.
To get that CC you have to lose damage, rogues don't get 10 encounter slots... If you want smokebomb for daze and deft strike for port and impossible to catch to be cc immune that leaves you how many damage encounters? oh 0... TR has to choose between cc (and their cc is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> compared to other classes) and damage. To 1-shot someone TR need BiS, Tene's, LA (daily), and the intended target not to (very easily I might add) dodge lashing blade. SE will not 1 shot someone that isn't in all greens. However a GF with even <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear can 1 shot TR's CW's and DC's with a simple Knights challenge + lunging, don't even need a daily. Not to mention the ability to juggle even a GWF to death b/c they can't pop unstoppable while prone.
You are simply comparing a 7.5k CW with a 12.5k TR and even then you are pretending TR has 3 damaging encounters, 100% uptime on dailies, and can achieve perma-stealth (without any of the needed encounters) oh and 3 CC encounters.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Ok now we're just reverting to bold faced lies? My CW hits TR's CW's and DC's for 75-100% of their health every single domination match I play. The insane rogue crits you list are rogues with BiS gear and Tene's, while a CW can do as much with an ice knife at 10k GS.
To get that CC you have to lose damage, rogues don't get 10 encounter slots... If you want smokebomb for daze and deft strike for port and impossible to catch to be cc immune that leaves you how many damage encounters? oh 0... TR has to choose between cc (and their cc is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> compared to other classes) and damage. To 1-shot someone TR need BiS, Tene's, LA (daily), and the intended target not to (very easily I might add) dodge lashing blade. SE will not 1 shot someone that isn't in all greens. However a GF with even <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear can 1 shot TR's CW's and DC's with a simple Knights challenge + lunging, don't even need a daily. Not to mention the ability to juggle even a GWF to death b/c they can't pop unstoppable while prone.
You are simply comparing a 7.5k CW with a 12.5k TR and even then you are pretending TR has 3 damaging encounters, 100% uptime on dailies, and can achieve perma-stealth (without any of the needed encounters) oh and 3 CC encounters.
I can't remember being hit hard by a Ice Knife not since a couple patches ago. Although my friend got hit by a Ice Knife last night for 20k damage and he was stunned said he never been hit that hard before. He plays a rogue. So when it does damage is a surprise like oh it hurt me.
No rogues don't get 10 encounter slots but they have unlimited options and there is always 2 rogues on each team most of the time in a match and there is a variety of builds and utilities used between them. Where most classes only use the exact same 3 encounters. That is part of the issue.
lol I like your sig hucka, I might have to steal that. But in all seriousness thank you abom, you make my work day fly by b/c I can always count on there being something to post about on the forums heh.
@ your last post, are you really saying TR has unlimited role potential as a GF? You have the ability to produce the most survivability, the most burst damage, the most and most powerful CC (prone negates unstoppable) and the only class that can block daily's outright. "Oh you hit me with Ice knife that would have been half my health? meh my shield was up" always angers me lol...
But seriously GF can have most survivability, most burst damage, and most CC in the SAME build, they don't even have to choose one, I'm not saying GF is unstoppable (Ray of frost works + repel works nicely but they are far stronger and far more of a problem for me as a CW. and since CW's weakness should be TR and they should be strong against fighter classes I think TR is the wrong class to be getting whacked with the nerf bat.
I can dodge lashing blade easily, but when I dodge GF they just at-will charge, then I dodge, then they at-will charge, then I'm prone, then I'm prone again, then I'm dead. If I did get ice knife off it was blocked along with my other 4 encounters so that GF takes no damage and no CC, at least with impossible to catch I can still damage the TR just not CC him.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
He's pretty good a good rogue to run with indeed. Just had 46kills in GG. Just have to impact shot 2 times dead. Lashing blade 1 time dead. A good rogue can nuke 3 separate targets at a base and kill all of them. Pretty sweet deal.
That's incredible, in the most literal sense of the word. My Rogue has very few enchantments above Rank 7 (only one rank 8 I think), but those numbers are exceedingly had to believe. The reason that they are so hard to believe is that unless he has perfect gear, rank 10's, and Greater Tene's (which you have already said neither you nor anyone else in your guild uses), then those numbers are not really possible even against massively undergeared new level 60's.
A rogue can already tank because there is nothing it can't do. I doubt they need a def buff then there be no reason to use any other class.
No, that's simply not true. Rogues can't tank in any meaningful sense. They can stay up if they properly manage stealth, bait-and-switch, and Impossible to Catch. But Rogues "tank" by killing more quickly than anyone else can -that is what they do. They can't take a 30K hit like any GF who blocks can, they just hit things very quickly.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Hey I think a better solution to balancing the perma stealth build is not to make it refill less of our stealth meter but to increase its cool down by about 5 seconds.. You know why? Perma stealth build requires you to have a drastic amount of recovery you even need to be speced into intelligence (gimping our damage because of lack of strength) if not you will not get the 30% cooldown reduction. So if you increase the cooldown time of bait and switch to 30(+) seconds ,unless you want to just forget about doing any damage at all and become a troll, we cannot hit that amount of cooldown reduction. There is a soft cap!
Stealth builds already gimp our damage so I believe in that time GWF and GF should be able to withstand our full rotation and afterwards you have that 5 second ( or more due to how much more time they have added to Bait and Switch) time limit to cc us to death ( which IMO is sooo easy to do to rogues [ i also play a GWF] ). Now you ask about CW, should not the main damage of the game be able to kill each other in one rotation??? Many times i have used take down on a stealth rogue because of awareness to my sorrondings it is not that hard and common we dont complain when we get spotted out of stealth and than get blown the f*@%^#! up because of cc and damage, let me emphazise this is ONLY against CW (talking about the damage). It's only fair.
Too many people are being soo ignorant of how our class works ffs devs need to get it straight. Common guys make this known, spread the word because all the devs are doing are trying to make players happy ( im not talking about the TR community ) because they have complained. But what they dont realize is that they are destroying the game's main out put of DPS in PvE and basically killing our survivablitiy in PvP. Thanks and put this into consideration
A rogue can already tank because there is nothing it can't do. I doubt they need a def buff then there be no reason to use any other class.
You really have no clue how the rogue class works do you? You think a tank would outright die from 1 hit? example wing buff dead rogue, tail whip dead rogue, hands dead rogue, bite dead rogue, breath attack dead rogue, wight runs up and hits you in the back you may or may not live, avoiding a hit by using stealth and itc and playing literally flawless is not tanking in it's true form, tank can take a hit rogues have a glass jaw.
If you think rogues are so godly roll one get to 60 and go hang out in the Laboratory and you will find out just how fast a rogue dies if it makes even the slightest error. At least level one to 48 and solo rime wolf in icespire so you have even a faint idea how the class plays.
I really hate to break the news to you but unless you play a class you just simply do not know. Theory crafting goes a long ways but not that far. No matter what class you play the grass is not greener on the other side, it's just an illusion.
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mctankypantsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I generally only play pvp and don't rely on stealth for my build. The changes in general are very disheartening to say the least. So much hate is being pushed towards all TR's instead of fixing a very small population of the game.
We should all reroll GWF's and use their cheese build and wreck it for them now.
abomb still spitting lies all around?
wonder why he is still allowed to post
He won't be banned nor censored because the biased mods want trolls like him around to do their dirty work for them. They want these threads cluttered with troll posts and devolve into flame wars so they can then come in and "clean it up" by banning legit posters fed up with the trolling, deleting post they disagree with, merging and locking threads they don't want people to read.
Also, Banelorne, the Rogue section's mod, doesn't actually moderate anything. He only cares about his own thread and is usually MIA in every other thread. He's also too nice and too diplomatic to be a real mod. A proper mod would have already deleted every post from obvious trolls like abom and his alt account, roguenerfbatman, along with reporting it to sominator to have those accounts banned.
This section of the forums is the most unproductive and most trolled class section on this forum. It will continue to be a cesspool and troll paradise until people stop responding to dbags like abom.
I think it's simpler than that. I've seen a mod take a abomb post and quote it, deleting the original post, and then tell the poster (abomb) not to say it was him, just to leave it anon (why? why be secret if you're above board?). I've also seen a lot of veiled threats from abomb about how you should watch out for mods when he's challenged. I suspect that abomb is either a buddy of a volunteer mod or a troll alt of a volunteer mod.
I think it's simpler than that. I've seen a mod take a abomb post and quote it, deleting the original post, and then tell the poster (abomb) not to say it was him, just to leave it anon (why? why be secret if you're above board?). I've also seen a lot of veiled threats from abomb about how you should watch out for mods when he's challenged. I suspect that abomb is either a buddy of a volunteer mod or a troll alt of a volunteer mod.
What you say is very likely to be true. We've already seen how biased ambisinister can be, how much he hates the Rogue class, and that anyone who disagrees with him and calls him out, gets censored and banned:
I dont have perma nonsense stealth build and my bar lasts for like 6 sec, I do mostly PvE. what will happen to rogues like me after the stealth nerf patch? will I be able to finish one duelist even.. this is bs
I dont have perma nonsense stealth build and my bar lasts for like 6 sec, I do mostly PvE. what will happen to rogues like me after the stealth nerf patch? will I be able to finish one duelist even.. this is bs
No, for a Rogue like you, you will only use stealth as a way to have guaranteed crit on Lashing Blade if you use that Encounter. Stealth is going to be nearly worthless for most Rogues in PvE if they go through with this patch.
If you're built for full stealth duration and damage with PvP stealth gear, you can finish the actual flurry portion of DF, after the first 2 initial hits while in stealth. Just don't pop stealth until after the 2nd hit of DF. You should be doing this anyway on live servers, even without the nerf.
That's incredible, in the most literal sense of the word. My Rogue has very few enchantments above Rank 7 (only one rank 8 I think), but those numbers are exceedingly had to believe. The reason that they are so hard to believe is that unless he has perfect gear, rank 10's, and Greater Tene's (which you have already said neither you nor anyone else in your guild uses), then those numbers are not really possible even against massively undergeared new level 60's.
No, that's simply not true. Rogues can't tank in any meaningful sense. They can stay up if they properly manage stealth, bait-and-switch, and Impossible to Catch. But Rogues "tank" by killing more quickly than anyone else can -that is what they do. They can't take a 30K hit like any GF who blocks can, they just hit things very quickly.
We are all decently geared not Perfect though. No one in my Guild uses Tene's we don't agree with them being used I just will leave it at that about Tene's. Only a normal vorpal. Some rank 7's maybe 8's ill have to look over his gear again he just got a greater thunderhead. So yea he is not top geared at all and hits though numbers. Hmmm scratch head then i guess.
I still can not understand how I'm going to use stealth in the next update, even though full saboteur, does not make sense to stay invisible being that at Wills will drain the stealth bar
My ending statement is Ice Knife hits for 5k-10k almost everytime. A rogues SE times 3= 15k-30k yes it hits that hard. So SE is 3 times as strong by the correct numbers.
I played one domination last night just to make sure, b/c I don't pvp often. I hit a completely undebuffed 11k GS TR for 15k NON-CRIT ice knife. Just though I'd share that. I have no weapon enchant and have mostly rank 5's with 3-4 rank 7's. With a vorpal that could easily have been 32k, much more throwing out a debuff before hand
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
Discussion on another thread about being one shot. Happens all the time. Those numbers can go much higher.
im sorry, arent you the GF that said to be able crit someone for 28k and hoping to go higher? Now lets see, for now at least you are 8k short of a DPS class critwise when you are a TANK class. I will leave these numbers here for you to reflect on
im sorry, arent you the GF that said to be able crit someone for 28k and hoping to go higher? Now lets see, for now at least you are 8k short of a DPS class critwise when you are a TANK class. I will leave these numbers here for you to reflect on
Lol yes I also pvp'd on my fresh 60 GF last night and absolutely destroyed people while wearing blue's, rank 4 enchants, and green shirt/pants. I went like 21/4 one match, and 14/1 another match. Not one time did I die to a rogue, it was always to a CW that cc'd me after my block broke
to be honest GF pvp is extemely fun lol, but thats because its utter easy mode and I just destroy the entire enemy team when the cleric stays near me
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
We are all decently geared not Perfect though. No one in my Guild uses Tene's we don't agree with them being used I just will leave it at that about Tene's. Only a normal vorpal. Some rank 7's maybe 8's ill have to look over his gear again he just got a greater thunderhead. So yea he is not top geared at all and hits though numbers. Hmmm scratch head then i guess.
Then I am going to have to call Shenanigans without proof from your TR friend. Perhaps he/she is unintentionally adding a number when reporting it out.
Discussion on another thread about being one shot. Happens all the time. Those numbers can go much higher.
And so can the numbers from CW's, or even GF's. Anyone who invests in vorpals and solid gear can get great numbers. Sometimes, there are tradeoffs to reach that point, like the squishiness of TR's (especially those who focus on stealth) or the foolishness of the CW who just stands in place without teleporting since they're worried about throwing off their rotation. It certainly doesn't mean that TR's are OP.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
The only class in the game that can feasibly argue that other classes are OP in comparison to them is DCs. Anyone else who thinks that a rogue hitting for 30k is OP should gtfo. GFs, GWFs and CWs can all do the same thing, but better. Only with GFs, its more of a combo with prones which for all intents and purposes can be considered a OS since you can do nothing about it once the first one hits you. CWs can hit for 40k+ from very far away AND CC lock you. GWFs have there OP regen that can out tank a 5v1.
Comments
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
Lol do you just hate the idea of stealth class? You seriously will say anything to have TR's nerfed, why do you despise this class? What are you going to say when people realize "Oh GF was actually 10 times stronger than TR in PvP, guess we should nerf him to the ground". Are you still going to say, yes yes this is good for game balancing?
Best Ranged = CW - Ice Knife 25-40k, when daily is down CC until they die. If you're fighting a TR and get hit by lashing blade you're simply bad and can't dodge. BTW before you whine that I'm comparing a daily to an encounter TR's need lurkers in its current state to come close to the damage you report them doing, so they're using daily + their class ability (stealth) + damage buffing passives + incredible gear. 10k CW can easily crit for 25k+ with simply daily alone.
Best melee = Single target - Rogue - as it should be. AOE = GWF. However in PvP survivability is a huge factor so actually largest burst + most survivability = GF. My GF that just hit 60 and is still wearing some blue's can crit for 30k + with just 2 encounters, don't even need a daily... and can of course block 100% of incoming damage lol
Best Utility = CW or GF - again if you have a brain and it processes information you won't get hit by TR cc. however CW can take icy rays (root) entangling force (stun) icicle (stun) and repel (huge knockback) and still do great damage. And GF can keep almost any class prone until their death if all their cooldowns are up.
Also SE does not hit for 120k so your ending statement is just dumb. How about you open your eyes to the overpowered things that all classes (except DC, but they can keep everyone else alive for ungodly long) have and stop just focusing on the ASSASSIN character and its ability to ASSASSINATE low survivability characters if played well.
If you think TR is op and all other classes are "in line" you just aren't able to think logically and so there is no debating with you.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
aight.....
stealth also does not mean invisible or silent you can hear stealthed rogues activate things(like lurkers which can be bumped off before they can even use it) from a mile and a half away learn the sounds.
All your numbers are flat out wrong. Last but not least Shocking execution is not even worth certing anymore, and Ice Knife most assuredly does hit for more than SE does.
I do not believe for an instant a 60k hit by a rogue on a rogue, and hell all it takes is a strong southwest wind to hit a rogue and it will drop dead.
I feel bad enough for them when I make them go splat but considering the changes on the test shard I feel even worse for them.
Maybe they should give them an inherent 35% chance to deflect , and have their dex give them an AC bonus of 1 for every 3 points. As it is they are entirely to easy to hit regardless of stealth and when you do hit them they explode LOL!
Seriously, since GWF and GF are now going to out dmg them why not give them more mitigation, it's not like GWF and GF would not still mitigate even more as they currently stand.
The proposed changes to the rogue class are just silly, and not warranted... especially without a complete reworking of the classes feats and powers. They nerfed them more than enough the last time around, just leave the poor guys alone.
GF blocking can be used to block TR SE too. I have experienced it by using SE on a GF with Block activated, and the GF blocked my SE.
Ebony (Whisperknife)
Well GF isn't 10 times stronger in PvP so there is no problem there. Rogues as I see it and threw the months have seen many many post by other players list the reasons they are completely out of whack. Even with these adjustments rogue will still be tops in PvP so that's saying something about where they stand currently.
Next. Ice Knife hits for 5-10k damage on rare occasions it will do real damage if someone is first and only debuffed and the CW is running tons of Arm pen. Where a SE on T1 gear rogue can hit harder there is no comparison. You can just ignore Ice knife damage and the only good thing is the prone but by no means a great finisher like SE. If Ice Knife hit as hard as SE then CW's be a lot tougher to deal with and would stand a lil better of a chance vs a rogue.
So you are comparing a GF's 2 skills to a rogues 8million don't see it. A CW can have great control and should hence its name but a rogue can CC then be immune dodge, tumble away go stealth dagger kill full heal rinse repeat without leaving a base. While stunning with a ranged attack OP and 2 shotting with it so I feel a rogue utility with stealth is just to much cause there damage is to much currently. Bring there damage down to where a CW's is and then the rogues utility won't be as bad.
My ending statement is Ice Knife hits for 5k-10k almost everytime. A rogues SE times 3= 15k-30k yes it hits that hard. So SE is 3 times as strong by the correct numbers.
A rogue can already tank because there is nothing it can't do. I doubt they need a def buff then there be no reason to use any other class.
Ok now we're just reverting to bold faced lies? My CW hits TR's CW's and DC's for 75-100% of their health every single domination match I play. The insane rogue crits you list are rogues with BiS gear and Tene's, while a CW can do as much with an ice knife at 10k GS.
To get that CC you have to lose damage, rogues don't get 10 encounter slots... If you want smokebomb for daze and deft strike for port and impossible to catch to be cc immune that leaves you how many damage encounters? oh 0... TR has to choose between cc (and their cc is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> compared to other classes) and damage. To 1-shot someone TR need BiS, Tene's, LA (daily), and the intended target not to (very easily I might add) dodge lashing blade. SE will not 1 shot someone that isn't in all greens. However a GF with even <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear can 1 shot TR's CW's and DC's with a simple Knights challenge + lunging, don't even need a daily. Not to mention the ability to juggle even a GWF to death b/c they can't pop unstoppable while prone.
You are simply comparing a 7.5k CW with a 12.5k TR and even then you are pretending TR has 3 damaging encounters, 100% uptime on dailies, and can achieve perma-stealth (without any of the needed encounters) oh and 3 CC encounters.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Lol b/c groups often run DC + 4 TR's right? TR is for boss damage and very large mobs, end of story.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I can't remember being hit hard by a Ice Knife not since a couple patches ago. Although my friend got hit by a Ice Knife last night for 20k damage and he was stunned said he never been hit that hard before. He plays a rogue. So when it does damage is a surprise like oh it hurt me.
No rogues don't get 10 encounter slots but they have unlimited options and there is always 2 rogues on each team most of the time in a match and there is a variety of builds and utilities used between them. Where most classes only use the exact same 3 encounters. That is part of the issue.
@ your last post, are you really saying TR has unlimited role potential as a GF? You have the ability to produce the most survivability, the most burst damage, the most and most powerful CC (prone negates unstoppable) and the only class that can block daily's outright. "Oh you hit me with Ice knife that would have been half my health? meh my shield was up" always angers me lol...
But seriously GF can have most survivability, most burst damage, and most CC in the SAME build, they don't even have to choose one, I'm not saying GF is unstoppable (Ray of frost works + repel works nicely
I can dodge lashing blade easily, but when I dodge GF they just at-will charge, then I dodge, then they at-will charge, then I'm prone, then I'm prone again, then I'm dead. If I did get ice knife off it was blocked along with my other 4 encounters so that GF takes no damage and no CC, at least with impossible to catch I can still damage the TR just not CC him.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
That's incredible, in the most literal sense of the word. My Rogue has very few enchantments above Rank 7 (only one rank 8 I think), but those numbers are exceedingly had to believe. The reason that they are so hard to believe is that unless he has perfect gear, rank 10's, and Greater Tene's (which you have already said neither you nor anyone else in your guild uses), then those numbers are not really possible even against massively undergeared new level 60's.
No, that's simply not true. Rogues can't tank in any meaningful sense. They can stay up if they properly manage stealth, bait-and-switch, and Impossible to Catch. But Rogues "tank" by killing more quickly than anyone else can -that is what they do. They can't take a 30K hit like any GF who blocks can, they just hit things very quickly.
Stealth builds already gimp our damage so I believe in that time GWF and GF should be able to withstand our full rotation and afterwards you have that 5 second ( or more due to how much more time they have added to Bait and Switch) time limit to cc us to death ( which IMO is sooo easy to do to rogues [ i also play a GWF] ). Now you ask about CW, should not the main damage of the game be able to kill each other in one rotation??? Many times i have used take down on a stealth rogue because of awareness to my sorrondings it is not that hard and common we dont complain when we get spotted out of stealth and than get blown the f*@%^#! up because of cc and damage, let me emphazise this is ONLY against CW (talking about the damage). It's only fair.
Too many people are being soo ignorant of how our class works ffs devs need to get it straight. Common guys make this known, spread the word because all the devs are doing are trying to make players happy ( im not talking about the TR community ) because they have complained. But what they dont realize is that they are destroying the game's main out put of DPS in PvE and basically killing our survivablitiy in PvP. Thanks and put this into consideration
You really have no clue how the rogue class works do you? You think a tank would outright die from 1 hit? example wing buff dead rogue, tail whip dead rogue, hands dead rogue, bite dead rogue, breath attack dead rogue, wight runs up and hits you in the back you may or may not live, avoiding a hit by using stealth and itc and playing literally flawless is not tanking in it's true form, tank can take a hit rogues have a glass jaw.
If you think rogues are so godly roll one get to 60 and go hang out in the Laboratory and you will find out just how fast a rogue dies if it makes even the slightest error. At least level one to 48 and solo rime wolf in icespire so you have even a faint idea how the class plays.
I really hate to break the news to you but unless you play a class you just simply do not know. Theory crafting goes a long ways but not that far. No matter what class you play the grass is not greener on the other side, it's just an illusion.
We should all reroll GWF's and use their cheese build and wreck it for them now.
He won't be banned nor censored because the biased mods want trolls like him around to do their dirty work for them. They want these threads cluttered with troll posts and devolve into flame wars so they can then come in and "clean it up" by banning legit posters fed up with the trolling, deleting post they disagree with, merging and locking threads they don't want people to read.
Also, Banelorne, the Rogue section's mod, doesn't actually moderate anything. He only cares about his own thread and is usually MIA in every other thread. He's also too nice and too diplomatic to be a real mod. A proper mod would have already deleted every post from obvious trolls like abom and his alt account, roguenerfbatman, along with reporting it to sominator to have those accounts banned.
This section of the forums is the most unproductive and most trolled class section on this forum. It will continue to be a cesspool and troll paradise until people stop responding to dbags like abom.
I think it's simpler than that. I've seen a mod take a abomb post and quote it, deleting the original post, and then tell the poster (abomb) not to say it was him, just to leave it anon (why? why be secret if you're above board?). I've also seen a lot of veiled threats from abomb about how you should watch out for mods when he's challenged. I suspect that abomb is either a buddy of a volunteer mod or a troll alt of a volunteer mod.
What you say is very likely to be true. We've already seen how biased ambisinister can be, how much he hates the Rogue class, and that anyone who disagrees with him and calls him out, gets censored and banned:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?415871-Forum-trolls-allowed-to-whine-about-Rogues
No, for a Rogue like you, you will only use stealth as a way to have guaranteed crit on Lashing Blade if you use that Encounter. Stealth is going to be nearly worthless for most Rogues in PvE if they go through with this patch.
If you're built for full stealth duration and damage with PvP stealth gear, you can finish the actual flurry portion of DF, after the first 2 initial hits while in stealth. Just don't pop stealth until after the 2nd hit of DF. You should be doing this anyway on live servers, even without the nerf.
We are all decently geared not Perfect though. No one in my Guild uses Tene's we don't agree with them being used I just will leave it at that about Tene's. Only a normal vorpal. Some rank 7's maybe 8's ill have to look over his gear again he just got a greater thunderhead. So yea he is not top geared at all and hits though numbers. Hmmm scratch head then i guess.
Discussion on another thread about being one shot. Happens all the time. Those numbers can go much higher.
I played one domination last night just to make sure, b/c I don't pvp often. I hit a completely undebuffed 11k GS TR for 15k NON-CRIT ice knife. Just though I'd share that. I have no weapon enchant and have mostly rank 5's with 3-4 rank 7's. With a vorpal that could easily have been 32k, much more throwing out a debuff before hand
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
im sorry, arent you the GF that said to be able crit someone for 28k and hoping to go higher? Now lets see, for now at least you are 8k short of a DPS class critwise when you are a TANK class. I will leave these numbers here for you to reflect on
Lol yes I also pvp'd on my fresh 60 GF last night and absolutely destroyed people while wearing blue's, rank 4 enchants, and green shirt/pants. I went like 21/4 one match, and 14/1 another match. Not one time did I die to a rogue, it was always to a CW that cc'd me after my block broke
to be honest GF pvp is extemely fun lol, but thats because its utter easy mode and I just destroy the entire enemy team when the cleric stays near me
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
He's still going on huh? What a tool....Go spew your biased "opinion" elsewhere troll. Please, someone get a torch and chase this guy back home...
Then I am going to have to call Shenanigans without proof from your TR friend. Perhaps he/she is unintentionally adding a number when reporting it out.
And so can the numbers from CW's, or even GF's. Anyone who invests in vorpals and solid gear can get great numbers. Sometimes, there are tradeoffs to reach that point, like the squishiness of TR's (especially those who focus on stealth) or the foolishness of the CW who just stands in place without teleporting since they're worried about throwing off their rotation. It certainly doesn't mean that TR's are OP.