making up numbers isnt providing anything, its making up numbers
i mean, GFs are constantly hitting for 30k, some even for 50k, yet i dont see you whining about that
I call it as I see it. The reason why I don't complain about anything a GF does is because most don't hit very hard at least not on me. 99% of GF's damage is under 20k. Not only that I don't hear to much complaining from my teammates either about GF's we come against as far as damage. Unless they are extremely geared and they are extremely easy to counter. I don't make up numbers there is no point in doing that. I run with 2 rogues that are decently geared not top but good only regular vorpals and can hit 30k on a target almost every match.
I can speak only from experience as well I have 47.3% damage reduction at the time when i got hit with a lashing blade for 36k. No debuffs on me it was a 1v1. I got 1 shot of course. Now if that was on a CW that would of easily been over a 40k crit and it happens more then you think. These are just from my experiences so I hope that seems more clear.
The 30k crit club for a rogue isn't something out of the ordinary and the 40k + club is but it does happen. You can always check your combat log and look those numbers don't lie Hope that helps
I see you points. I am not playing my GF as a tank and he isn't one though. When I go down the conquer tree then select best Dps skills and advoid anything that gives threat. Then go with pure arm pen and greater vorpal I am now a striker. I can't tank. Not with that extreme build so its not like I am getting best of both worlds or anything. I like being able to use my GF as a Dps class and I love how that is a option with the conquer tree and right gear. I just don't plan on tanking with my GF because I am trying to single target Dps on boss and top charts.
That you don't play your GF as a tank is functionally irrelevant. That's like my taking an M1A2 on the Highway and saying "but officer, I'm not driving it as a tank!" Your GF isn't a striker any more than mine is or any more than taking an actual tank for a joyride makes it a car. You're simply not going to be able to put out DPS the same way a TR is, but you will be able to take hits that no TR can even if you never learn how to use your shield - which might be why you have had so much trouble with TR's in PvP.
Look, I get what you're saying about how you don't tank. That's fine, and if your group enjoys the way you play and how you contribute, that's great. But when it comes down to it, GF's are tanks. If your goal is to always top the charts, then make sure you either a)never party with any TR's and b)that your CW's are focused on controlling without doing a whole lot of damage.
If being tops in the damage chart is why you support these brutal changes to TR's, then to be blunt about it I consider that to be an exceptionally selfish and frankly immature motivation. If you want the titles, then go and faceroll Cloaktower 50 times. If you want to come by those titles through your own efforts, then it is a combination of high end gear/enchants and solid group work.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Once again I would like to keep on topic since you have a problem with my opinions. You can PM me this is not the place. I also would like you to keep with forum policies no need for attacks it doesn't help the forums.
That you don't play your GF as a tank is functionally irrelevant. That's like my taking an M1A2 on the Highway and saying "but officer, I'm not driving it as a tank!" Your GF isn't a striker any more than mine is or any more than taking an actual tank for a joyride makes it a car. You're simply not going to be able to put out DPS the same way a TR is, but you will be able to take hits that no TR can even if you never learn how to use your shield - which might be why you have had so much trouble with TR's in PvP.
Look, I get what you're saying about how you don't tank. That's fine, and if your group enjoys the way you play and how you contribute, that's great. But when it comes down to it, GF's are tanks. If your goal is to always top the charts, then make sure you either a)never party with any TR's and b)that your CW's are focused on controlling without doing a whole lot of damage.
The do disagree on the changes though and feel they are not brutal but needed. I hope that its to provide some day a better overall feel to Dungeons and more group work and support needed by various classes. Guess only time will tell though.
If being tops in the damage chart is why you support these brutal changes to TR's, then to be blunt about it I consider that to be an exceptionally selfish and frankly immature motivation. If you want the titles, then go and faceroll Cloaktower 50 times. If you want to come by those titles through your own efforts, then it is a combination of high end gear/enchants and solid group work.
Ok good feedback. Yes my group I play with since I really don't currently like dungeons that is another story. Yes they do like my Dps and its the same group I PvP with. Sometimes we even roll 2 GF's me being the heavy Dps one the other one works on adds. That way we both get a run in so ends up being a lot of fun.
I agree a GF should be a tank I just feel Dungeons and class balance with bugs and exploits got off to a rough start in Beta. So a tank was never needed. Also a true tank isn't wanted in this game since no content really needs to be tanked. So I hope there is a future and buffs to the Protector tree and tanks will actually emerge and become viable. I am lvling my alt GF that I do some theory crafting on and building him to be a pure tank so I just hope there is a need some day for him to tank a Boss and soak up damage just right now I don't see it that way.
I do disagree with you thoughts on the changes to rogues though and feel they aren't brutal but needed. I hope that a dungeon will have a overall better experience and feel and need better group support in the future. Only time will tell though.
Once again I would like to keep on topic since you have a problem with my opinions. You can PM me this is not the place. I also would like you to keep with forum policies no need for attacks it doesn't help the forums.
I hope that wasn't addressed at me, because a) I haven't in any way attacked you and b) your opinions seem to be at the core of your complaints. Since those complaints have been structured in a way that uses terminology that is completely wrong in context, it should be addressed the same way it was presented.
If you're able to engage in a civil and reasoned discussion, great. Otherwise, I'll continue to engage you in a civil and reasoned manner based on the content of what you post. This will include pointing out when I disagree and precisely why, which is what I have done. If you want to PM me, feel free to do so, but I'm perfectly comfortable continuing this conversation in public if you're able to do so. As far as I can tell, your argument has been completely played out and comes down to "I don't like this and therefore I want it to go away." That the basis for that argument appears to be selfish is extremely disappointing to me, as it means that there may be no point in actually engaging in such a discussion. I hope that is in error, and look forward to your clarifying that.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Ok good feedback. Yes my group I play with since I really don't currently like dungeons that is another story. Yes they do like my Dps and its the same group I PvP with. Sometimes we even roll 2 GF's me being the heavy Dps one the other one works on adds. That way we both get a run in so ends up being a lot of fun.
I agree a GF should be a tank I just fell Dungeons and class balance with bugs and exploits got off to a rough start in Beta. So a tank was never needed. Also a true tank isn't wanted in this game since no content really needs to be tanked. So I hope there is a future and buffs to the Protector tree and tanks will actually emerge and become viable. I am lvling my alt GF that I do some theory crafting on and building him to be a pure tank so I just hope there is a need some day for him to tank a Boss and soak up damage just right now I don't see it that way.
That makes perfect sense for PvP, which I do not think is the focus of the game! I of course have precisely no numbers or statistics to base than on, other than it isn't really the core of D&D.
What I think you may not be seeing is precisely why that works so well for you in PvP, and that is because you're playing a tank! GF's can be absolute monsters in PvP because of how tough they are, which is what allows them to do so much damage because they can stay standing and therefore swinging much longer than anyone else (GWF's with unstoppable up notwithstanding).
So since you don't play dungeons, I hope that you understand that many of us play them and enjoy them. In my case, much more than PvP which I frankly find boring. These changes to rogue are DEVASTATING in PvE and I expect they are going to negatively impact a very large number of players - everyone who does dungeons.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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sreredrumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
if people want pvp, play WoW. This game has about as much effort put into pvp as pong had.
(except that was balanced before release)
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percefusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I do disagree with you thoughts on the changes to rogues though and feel they aren't brutal but needed. I hope that a dungeon will have a overall better experience and feel and need better group support in the future. Only time will tell though.
We have 30 Powers, 17 directly affected by stealth. That's more than 50% of our powers are affected by stealth in one way or another. As well as 39 feats of which 10 directly pertaining to stealth. How can you fail to see how the test server nerfs to stealth do not directly hurt the class as a whole and indeed weakened at its very core. We did not design this class, we have only been given the class and told to play it using the powers and feats put into it. If you want to blame someone for its design then you need to speak to the developers, not the players.....
That makes perfect sense for PvP, which I do not think is the focus of the game! I of course have precisely no numbers or statistics to base than on, other than it isn't really the core of D&D.
What I think you may not be seeing is precisely why that works so well for you in PvP, and that is because you're playing a tank! GF's can be absolute monsters in PvP because of how tough they are, which is what allows them to do so much damage because they can stay standing and therefore swinging much longer than anyone else (GWF's with unstoppable up notwithstanding).
So since you don't play dungeons, I hope that you understand that many of us play them and enjoy them. In my case, much more than PvP which I frankly find boring. These changes to rogue are DEVASTATING in PvE and I expect they are going to negatively impact a very large number of players - everyone who does dungeons.
Well that's the thing tanks don't even tank in PvP. There block get broken from a couple at wills and there mitigation isn't really that helpful a GF can still get nuked and 1 shot which seems to be pretty squishy. Sure they have more then a CW, DC but now since everyone runs Arm pen and vorpal my 46% mitigation is no better then someone's 35% if the attack will 1 shot me. The only true tough tank in PvP is a GWF. They have 3 times the deflect possible for a GF so they take no damage then have Unstopable which is way, way better of a tanking skill then block. I have to block and it breaks in 2 secs. A gwf is immune to attacks, faster and take way less damage. Which is why I feel its the only good tank class currently just give a GWF threat and let them tank dungeons. Not to mention a GWF gets more HP easily too kinda makes me scratch my head.
I don't do many dungeons and I have a good who know's 50 maybe that I have done. Not 1 of those runs was I like at the end of it said- Great run guys lets do it again sometime I had a lot of fun. At the end of every run my thought was I hope I don't have to do this again but I like to help players out. I did the DD and some guild runs mainly. I just hate the content and the design of dungeons to me its really bad. Just adds and CC and poor class make ups all the time. I don't have a great answer on how to fix dungeons except to gut them and try to make them doable from a 1 of each class standpoint. I would like to see some real boss fights instead of ADD fights. Just hope they can adjust some classes to perform there roll better in dungeons and re make all of them. I think that is hoping a lot though so I just stay out of Dungeons for the most part because I just find them terrible and unenjoyable. That is not the dungeon feeling I should get from a Dungeons and Dragons game.
With that said I still have tons of fun in this game and enjoy it. I love PvP even though we only have 2 maps and think this game can be a tremendous PvP game and become known for it because of the combat system. We just need more maps and a system to play on.
I also love farming and theory crafting and have fun questing and doing stuff and I play with my friends and chat. I am looking forward to my new alt I am lvling which I am having a lot of fun on.
We have 30 Powers, 17 directly affected by stealth. That's more than 50% of our powers are affected by stealth in one way or another. As well as 39 feats of which 10 directly pertaining to stealth. How can you fail to see how the test server nerfs to stealth do not directly hurt the class as a whole and indeed weakened at its very core. We did not design this class, we have only been given the class and told to play it using the powers and feats put into it. If you want to blame someone for its design then you need to speak to the developers, not the players.....
You bring up some interesting points. I didn't know 17 powers are affected by stealth that is good to know. So I guess making sure less are affected by it be a good thing to do. I also think that a new Tab ability not just for a rogue but for other classes to have more diverse builds. I have never ever ever ever used my Tab in PvP because I don't have a skill to use there I have the lamest tab skill ever in taunt that guess what doesn't get used much in PvE either. How about some variety and open up tab. For other classes. I personally like to see trickster be more of a unique class in this game and by having 17powers affected by stealth that is just not the way to do it. Give a rogue like a mirror image or something tricky instead of stealth. Granted in a lot of games its a Wizard skill but something along those line be interesting.
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percefusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You bring up some interesting points. I didn't know 17 powers are affected by stealth that is good to know. So I guess making sure less are affected by it be a good thing to do. I also think that a new Tab ability not just for a rogue but for other classes to have more diverse builds. I have never ever ever ever used my Tab in PvP because I don't have a skill to use there I have the lamest tab skill ever in taunt that guess what doesn't get used much in PvE either. How about some variety and open up tab. For other classes. I personally like to see trickster be more of a unique class in this game and by having 17powers affected by stealth that is just not the way to do it. Give a rogue like a mirror image or something tricky instead of stealth. Granted in a lot of games its a Wizard skill but something along those line be interesting.
Unfortunately that would mean a complete rebuild of the Rogue class, from the ground up. We both know that will not happen.
As to the GF TAB skill, Taunt would seem to be the perfect skill to have for a tank class and no matter what you say your class is a tank class or is supposed to be anyway when played as it was designed. Sorry but that's my opinion.
It is a unique class, it depends on "stealth"
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Well that's the thing tanks don't even tank in PvP. There block get broken from a couple at wills and there mitigation isn't really that helpful a GF can still get nuked and 1 shot which seems to be pretty squishy. Sure they have more then a CW, DC but now since everyone runs Arm pen and vorpal my 46% mitigation is no better then someone's 35% if the attack will 1 shot me. The only true tough tank in PvP is a GWF. They have 3 times the deflect possible for a GF so they take no damage then have Unstopable which is way, way better of a tanking skill then block. I have to block and it breaks in 2 secs. A gwf is immune to attacks, faster and take way less damage. Which is why I feel its the only good tank class currently just give a GWF threat and let them tank dungeons. Not to mention a GWF gets more HP easily too kinda makes me scratch my head.
I don't do many dungeons and I have a good who know's 50 maybe that I have done. Not 1 of those runs was I like at the end of it said- Great run guys lets do it again sometime I had a lot of fun. At the end of every run my thought was I hope I don't have to do this again but I like to help players out. I did the DD and some guild runs mainly. I just hate the content and the design of dungeons to me its really bad. Just adds and CC and poor class make ups all the time. I don't have a great answer on how to fix dungeons except to gut them and try to make them doable from a 1 of each class standpoint. I would like to see some real boss fights instead of ADD fights. Just hope they can adjust some classes to perform there roll better in dungeons and re make all of them. I think that is hoping a lot though so I just stay out of Dungeons for the most part because I just find them terrible and unenjoyable. That is not the dungeon feeling I should get from a Dungeons and Dragons game.
With that said I still have tons of fun in this game and enjoy it. I love PvP even though we only have 2 maps and think this game can be a tremendous PvP game and become known for it because of the combat system. We just need more maps and a system to play on.
I also love farming and theory crafting and have fun questing and doing stuff and I play with my friends and chat. I am looking forward to my new alt I am lvling which I am having a lot of fun on.
Tanking in PvP only happens when a team really plays together and forces the opposing side to react in certain ways. This is a core strategy that requires some significant practice, no small degree of skill, but more importantly it requires excellent communication. It is also only required when facing a coordinated team, otherwise it devolves into your team capping points while hunting down five individuals. Not particularly exciting, but some people seem to really be into it. When I team with friends and we play another team, it can be a lot of fun, but when it is against a random group of people who have zero coordination it becomes boring to faceroll people who simply aren't enjoying the combination of a)not being able to keep any points and b) dying a lot.
By your own admission you are entirely PvP focused. I am going to ask that when you make any and all future posts about things being overpowered that you specifically address them as only relating to PvP. Frankly, I still think that you are 100% wrong about TR's being overpowered in PvP for reasons I have spelled out before (will happily do so again if you like). Unfortunately for you, this isn't going to do a whole lot to keep you from getting shredded in PvP but it is going to utterly crush people in PvE. You seem to want something very different than every other player I have played with to date, which makes sense since you have a completely different focus.
While I would also like to see a lot more thought put into the dungeons and the fights with the enemy leader types (things are better on the test server already in this regard), I do have a lot of fun running dungeons with both friends and PuG's. Somehow I ended up as the Sherpa for a bunch of French players (I speak almost no French) for Karrundax and ended up doing 9-10 runs with their friends last week. It's the same every time, but it was still a lot of fun since each group was different and the fights aren't painful - unlike Mad Dragon, which is just bloody annoying. Some of the ones that require strategy like the Wolf Den greatly benefit from a stealthy rogue since they can avoid it being a total addfest by not being hit by Marrowslake.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
You bring up some interesting points. I didn't know 17 powers are affected by stealth that is good to know. So I guess making sure less are affected by it be a good thing to do. I also think that a new Tab ability not just for a rogue but for other classes to have more diverse builds. I have never ever ever ever used my Tab in PvP because I don't have a skill to use there I have the lamest tab skill ever in taunt that guess what doesn't get used much in PvE either. How about some variety and open up tab. For other classes. I personally like to see trickster be more of a unique class in this game and by having 17powers affected by stealth that is just not the way to do it. Give a rogue like a mirror image or something tricky instead of stealth. Granted in a lot of games its a Wizard skill but something along those line be interesting.
Wait, are you kidding? You never use Mark in PvP? WHY?!?! Use the class mechanic! Especially when someone isn't attacking you Mark can be huge for your teammates! Look, you're not team-focused at all. I get that. But the class mechanics really can be remarkably useful!
So yeah, it seems you hadn't been aware of stealth as the core mechanic of the TR class. Gutting stealth the way it has been done on the test server makes this core mechanic nearly useless and very broken. Since there has been nothing done to create anything for the TR as an alternate, this is a huge problem. 17 powers affected by stealth isn't a problem, but it makes a lot of sense since that is the core mechanic - misdirection, trickery, throwing sand in the other guys face before stomping on his instep makes perfect sense for a TR. If you don't want to call it stealth but "sand in enemy's eyes while you jump behind him and stab him" then fine, but that's what it is. Making it "mirror image" (formerly a wizard spell) but having the same effect is unnecessary unless you only care about being able to see them and target them in PvP. In which case GF's have plenty of ways to do so - including marking them BEFORE them enter stealth, blocking their attacks with the shield and then countering with an AoE, etc.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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percefusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Also if you are looking for Cryptic to enhance PvP I hate to tell you they are probabally the worst development team when it comes to PvP, at best it's a afterthought.....
This is from a article written about another of Cryptic's titles...
THE ESCAPIST PORTAL: Cryptic: Star Trek Online's PVP Sucks
Cryptic: Star Trek Online's PVP Sucks!
A developer admits that Star Trek Online's PVP adds so little to the game, it wouldn't be missed if it was removed.
It's rare in this age of perpetual PR, where creators are constantly plugged into the marketing machine via Twitter, Facebook and forums, to see any developer admit that the game they're working on is anything less than brilliant, even when they're presented with evidence to the contrary. It's refreshing to see at least one developer who'll sit back and say, "yeah, okay. This is a bit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>."
Ok first. I hit for 26k last night and was 1 time. There are tons of rogues that hit for 30k + not to mention the 40k + club. .
When it comes to top of the line gear on a rogue, Svetlana comes in near the top 5 %...
...and I have NEVER EVER hit anyone for 40k... And Maybe... once or twice have I hit 30k, but the gear difference between me and the victim was very large...
My Lashing Blade USUALLY hits from Stealth 10-15
Shocking 10-20... I have had a rare 25....
Just like other classes, ALOT of stuff factors into reaching these numbers...
Your Gear score vs Opponent.
Class of Opponent
Opponent Blocking, Dodging, Pot Drinking, Does Opponent have debuffs on such as Ray of Enfeeblement ..etc...
Now lets look at the other classes....
GF can bouncing Betty you for 20k ...3 shot without ever a chance of standing up.
GWF can use 2 encounters and take you to 10 % health or less.
DC in PvP spec can Beam of Death your as$ in a few quality hits.
CW...pffft.... they can one shot with Ice Knife ...if that isint enough RoE in tab + Entagle + Chill Strike = Respawn
So many factors come into play on who can kill who at what time...
If you had one fu*king iota of knowledge about rogues, you would know a PERMASTEALTH rogue sacrifices DPS AND HEALTH to achieve stealth and you can stand there scratching your balls while they DPS you and not feel a thing.
When it comes to top of the line gear on a rogue, Svetlana comes in near the top 5 %...
...and I have NEVER EVER hit anyone for 40k... And Maybe... once or twice have I hit 30k, but the gear difference between me and the victim was very large...
My Lashing Blade USUALLY hits from Stealth 10-15
Shocking 10-20... I have had a rare 25....
Just like other classes, ALOT of stuff factors into reaching these numbers...
Your Gear score vs Opponent.
Class of Opponent
Opponent Blocking, Dodging, Pot Drinking, Does Opponent have debuffs on such as Ray of Enfeeblement ..etc...
Now lets look at the other classes....
GF can bouncing Betty you for 20k ...3 shot without ever a chance of standing up.
GWF can use 2 encounters and take you to 10 % health or less.
DC in PvP spec can Beam of Death your as$ in a few quality hits.
CW...pffft.... they can one shot with Ice Knife ...if that isint enough RoE in tab + Entagle + Chill Strike = Respawn
So many factors come into play on who can kill who at what time...
If you had one fu*king iota of knowledge about rogues, you would know a PERMASTEALTH rogue sacrifices DPS AND HEALTH to achieve stealth and you can stand there scratching your balls while they DPS you and not feel a thing.
Some good points from your experience. Hmmmm don't know was just in a match and my buddy hit for 32k lashing blade and isn't geared out and was against another top rogue just saying. So I only see what I see.
One thing I have noticed is ill call out a perma stealth rogue in a match and they then enrage and say I am not perma stealth I don't use that cheese build. Well I can't tell the difference because they are almost always stealthed. 80% up time in stealth is to much for PvP. I have seen daggers melts a player from 100% to 0 from stealth in 3 secs and personally been hit with just daggers from stealth for 18k. That's just OP and before they start there 20k impact shot rotation. I still think any damage from stealth should break it once combat starts but that's just my opinion. I don't know why it seems I see rogues hitting 20-30k easy on the regular but I do. Maybe we can get the rogues that have 40k lashing blade crits to chime in. Once again these are my opinions on what I feel is to strong. I am extremely geared so players that don't have my gear get absolutely nuked and 1 shot and I can feel there pain and don't want them to get turned off. I hope PvP does grow and that is where my hopes will be.
For what you mentioned with the other classes. There just aren't many good CW's and rarely see a Ice Knife hurt I mean nothing past 10k. Where a SE is still way stronger.
GF sure they got a daily that I don't use I think its a waste but its prone CC is annoying for sure. Most GF's though don't do a ton of damage unless they get lucky with crits and well a GF has the lowest crit usually around 15%.
DC lets leave them alone poor DC's
GWF is Op for there tanking builds. No doubt there.
One thing I have noticed is ill call out a perma stealth rogue in a match and they then enrage and say I am not perma stealth I don't use that cheese build. Well I can't tell the difference...
So you can't even tell a permastealth rogue from a rogue that just happens to be in stealth? And you are one of the most vocal people calling for stealth to be nerfed? Also, aren't you the guy who uses /leave anytime you have to fight a rogue?
So let me get this straight: you see a PvP rogue in stealth, you accuse them of being permastealth and then find out they aren't, you won't fight rogues because you think this "permastealth" is cheating, and then you come to the forums asking for rogues to be nerfed? Is that about right?
So you can't even tell a permastealth rogue from a rogue that just happens to be in stealth? And you are one of the most vocal people calling for stealth to be nerfed? Also, aren't you the guy who uses /leave anytime you have to fight a rogue?
So let me get this straight: you see a PvP rogue in stealth, you accuse them of being permastealth and then find out they aren't, you won't fight rogues because you think this "permastealth" is cheating, and then you come to the forums asking for rogues to be nerfed? Is that about right?
Whether they use a perma stealth build to the max or not fact is the uptime is to much. Its like potato or potahto its the same thing. 80% up time is cheesy build and I hope some adjustments are being addressed. I also hope they continue to take a look at stealth on the test server to make sure it doesn't get a big uptime. I don't leave anytime I fight a rogue lol. There are 2-3 rogues in every match since they are OP everyone uses them. I would never get any games in. I leave when players are exploiting the stealth build so that way I can find a match that has some PvP and fighting in it. You don't have to like it but me and my team thinks its worthwhile to protest it till its fixed.
40K club? I wish my 12.2gs rogue can hit that hard without an ioun stone or perfect vorpal!
I just asked my buddy he has a normal vorpal his biggest crit with LA up was 60k on another rogue. Of course that is rare since its his biggest most likely some debuffs on him. Still. Get my friend a perfect vorpal maybe 70k. Rogues speak lowly of there damage I feel because they don't want any impending changes to there class and I don't blame them for being smart. I mean if I could get 40k crits in PvP I don't think I would advertise either.
I just asked my buddy he has a normal vorpal his biggest crit with LA up was 60k on another rogue. Of course that is rare since its his biggest most likely some debuffs on him. Still. Get my friend a perfect vorpal maybe 70k. Rogues speak lowly of there damage I feel because they don't want any impending changes to there class and I don't blame them for being smart. I mean if I could get 40k crits in PvP I don't think I would advertise either.
I think you are missing the point here. It is a FACT that only 2-3% of rogues can afford the enchants necessary to do even close to what you are describing. I have a 12K gear score and can say flat out that I rarely, if ever, hit with anything above 25k. You can ask your friends all you want and tell us about your conspiracy theories on how rogues are under reporting their damage so they wont get nerfed. But the truth is that 95%+ of rogues can't get anywhere near the numbers you are making up...sorry, its true.
I just asked my buddy he has a normal vorpal his biggest crit with LA up was 60k on another rogue. Of course that is rare since its his biggest most likely some debuffs on him. Still. Get my friend a perfect vorpal maybe 70k. Rogues speak lowly of there damage I feel because they don't want any impending changes to there class and I don't blame them for being smart. I mean if I could get 40k crits in PvP I don't think I would advertise either.
So... by the same logic, a CW who instagibs a gwf with ice knife because CW has his daily up needs a nerf too? Chillstrike can already hit 8k on a crit from a CW cn Mule(building hp and rechargespeed/AP). does that need a nerf?
Everyone can be geared out and deal a huge damage, not just rogues. gwfs still holds the title of burst king, 3rd in line for stun ur face to death, and #1 in survivablity in pvp, wheres rogue in this conversation? 2nd in line for burst, Last for stun, second to last in survivablity. I don't even see a comparison here.
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Whether they use a perma stealth build to the max or not fact is the uptime is to much. Its like potato or potahto its the same thing. 80% up time is cheesy build and I hope some adjustments are being addressed. I also hope they continue to take a look at stealth on the test server to make sure it doesn't get a big uptime. I don't leave anytime I fight a rogue lol. There are 2-3 rogues in every match since they are OP everyone uses them. I would never get any games in. I leave when players are exploiting the stealth build so that way I can find a match that has some PvP and fighting in it. You don't have to like it but me and my team thinks its worthwhile to protest it till its fixed.
No, just no.
To have significant stealth uptime rogues have to do quite a few things include forgoing DPS skills and not using the equipment that leads to doing the most damage. To get more than a few seconds of stealth rogues have to spec for it. And no, it is not the same thing to be a permastealth rogue versus a rogue who is using their class feature.
While I don't know the friend you referenced and would hate to call someone out for dishonesty, I very much would like to see what precisely they were geared with for a 60K critical. I've never seen numbers like that off of any rogue.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
So... by the same logic, a CW who instagibs a gwf with ice knife because CW has his daily up needs a nerf too? Chillstrike can already hit 8k on a crit from a CW cn Mule(building hp and rechargespeed/AP). does that need a nerf?
Everyone can be geared out and deal a huge damage, not just rogues. gwfs still holds the title of burst king, 3rd in line for stun ur face to death, and #1 in survivablity in pvp, wheres rogue in this conversation? 2nd in line for burst, Last for stun, second to last in survivablity. I don't even see a comparison here.
Hmmmm I don't see a comparison either currently.
Best ranged = Rogue - Impact shot 20k and as my cleric friend likes to say. Dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger. OMG MAKE IT STOP dagger, dagger, dagger-- sorry guys I am dead.
Best melee = Rogue = Lashing blade 20-30k or 40k + on geared players
Best utility = Rogue= smoke bomb, stealth, immune, cc
A rogue has the best of everything best dailys, SE hits 3 times harder then Ice Knife no comparison.
Just unlimited abilities far above other classes and multiple builds where other classes don't. Some classes have 1 build and 3 skills Weeeee that's awesome. Spread the wealth is all I can say.
No, just no.
To have significant stealth uptime rogues have to do quite a few things include forgoing DPS skills and not using the equipment that leads to doing the most damage. To get more than a few seconds of stealth rogues have to spec for it. And no, it is not the same thing to be a permastealth rogue versus a rogue who is using their class feature.
While I don't know the friend you referenced and would hate to call someone out for dishonesty, I very much would like to see what precisely they were geared with for a 60K critical. I've never seen numbers like that off of any rogue.
He's pretty good a good rogue to run with indeed. Just had 46kills in GG. Just have to impact shot 2 times dead. Lashing blade 1 time dead. A good rogue can nuke 3 separate targets at a base and kill all of them. Pretty sweet deal.
Best ranged = Rogue - Impact shot 20k and as my cleric friend likes to say. Dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger. OMG MAKE IT STOP dagger, dagger, dagger-- sorry guys I am dead.
Best melee = Rogue = Lashing blade 20-30k or 40k + on geared players
Best utility = Rogue= smoke bomb, stealth, immune, cc
A rogue has the best of everything best dailys, SE hits 3 times harder then Ice Knife no comparison.
Just unlimited abilities far above other classes and multiple builds where other classes don't. Some classes have 1 build and 3 skills Weeeee that's awesome. Spread the wealth is all I can say.
Allright, than what do you suggest 'prominent rogues' reply to posters who say stealth gives immunity to damage, have unlimited daggers, can have their Daily up as much as any other class and have three damage encounters slotted next to Bait&Switch, ShadowStrike and ItC?
I believe they already nerf the stealth secretly... everytime i attack while stealthed, it takes a fraction of my stealth meter. I dont know if you notice it but pays a little more attention. I think they are testing it now to see if people will notice, if not they will implement that nerf legally.
Actually this right here. Noticed that stealth was taking a while longer to be ready.
Best ranged = Rogue - Impact shot 20k and as my cleric friend likes to say. Dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger. OMG MAKE IT STOP dagger, dagger, dagger-- sorry guys I am dead.
Best melee = Rogue = Lashing blade 20-30k or 40k + on geared players
Best utility = Rogue= smoke bomb, stealth, immune, cc
A rogue has the best of everything best dailys, SE hits 3 times harder then Ice Knife no comparison.
Just unlimited abilities far above other classes and multiple builds where other classes don't. Some classes have 1 build and 3 skills Weeeee that's awesome. Spread the wealth is all I can say.
I'll pretend this isn't a troll and make some corrections. I'm in the top 5% of geared rogues and these are my numbers.
Impact shot: Average 5k crit, I'm happy with 6k crits. Lurkers assualt highest crit on record 12k and I was mindblown
Lashing blade: Average 12k crit, im happy with 15k crits. Lurkers assualt highest crit 26k on record against a green cw
Utility: 1 slot for utility and out of that yes you can choose from an okay list. I choose ItC.
Then... vs equally geared average crits become high the high crits and on top of that they have more health.
I'll pretend this isn't a troll and make some corrections. I'm in the top 5% of geared rogues and these are my numbers.
Impact shot: Average 5k crit, I'm happy with 6k crits. Lurkers assualt highest crit on record 12k and I was mindblown
Lashing blade: Average 12k crit, im happy with 15k crits. Lurkers assualt highest crit 26k on record against a green cw
Utility: 1 slot for utility and out of that yes you can choose from an okay list. I choose ItC.
Then... vs equally geared average crits become high the high crits and on top of that they have more health.
Then I would like to compare stats of yours to the rogues I play with and also what I seen because that makes no sense on those numbers they seem more of a 50 lvl TR.
On 2 of the rogues in my guild doing premades the other night.
Impact shot consistently hitting- 10-12k normal and 20k+ with LA- mindblown was when he did a 28k impact crit.
Lashing blade all the time 15k normal LA easy easy 20k + not to mention at least 1 or more 30k+ per match. So that consistent
They are not top geared in the 5% because of normal vorpals.
On the receiving end its the same when I check the combat log. With on record the biggest lashing blade I took on 47.3% dmg mitigation at the time 36k. So on a cloth CW etc that would of been like a 45k blow. If the rogue I run with hits a target that is undergeared in greens as you say. Its a 40k + with his best crit ever being 60k. So we have a big difference on numbers. Your biggest crit 26k on record which I see every match. His biggest crit on record 3 times as much as your at 60k. So how are these numbers not adding up? You should be scoring 26k every match vs geared players and some 30k + with no problem on anything t1 or less. Not to mention if a target is debuffed you should hit for 40k+. So I don't understand why your hits are very low on the damage side. Compared to what I see everyday.
Then I would like to compare stats of yours to the rogues I play with and also what I seen because that makes no sense on those numbers they seem more of a 50 lvl TR.
On 2 of the rogues in my guild doing premades the other night.
Impact shot consistently hitting- 10-12k normal and 20k+ with LA- mindblown was when he did a 28k impact crit.
Lashing blade all the time 15k normal LA easy easy 20k + not to mention at least 1 or more 30k+ per match. So that consistent
They are not top geared in the 5% because of normal vorpals.
On the receiving end its the same when I check the combat log. With on record the biggest lashing blade I took on 47.3% dmg mitigation at the time 36k. So on a cloth CW etc that would of been like a 45k blow. If the rogue I run with hits a target that is undergeared in greens as you say. Its a 40k + with his best crit ever being 60k. So we have a big difference on numbers. Your biggest crit 26k on record which I see every match. His biggest crit on record 3 times as much as your at 60k. So how are these numbers not adding up? You should be scoring 26k every match vs geared players and some 30k + with no problem on anything t1 or less. Not to mention if a target is debuffed you should hit for 40k+. So I don't understand why your hits are very low on the damage side. Compared to what I see everyday.
Alright lets see, because i'm curious myself as to why according to you i'm not hitting hard enough.
Will pull my stats later in the evening, get the numbers from your rogues as well and lets compare.
Comments
I call it as I see it. The reason why I don't complain about anything a GF does is because most don't hit very hard at least not on me. 99% of GF's damage is under 20k. Not only that I don't hear to much complaining from my teammates either about GF's we come against as far as damage. Unless they are extremely geared and they are extremely easy to counter. I don't make up numbers there is no point in doing that. I run with 2 rogues that are decently geared not top but good only regular vorpals and can hit 30k on a target almost every match.
I can speak only from experience as well I have 47.3% damage reduction at the time when i got hit with a lashing blade for 36k. No debuffs on me it was a 1v1. I got 1 shot of course. Now if that was on a CW that would of easily been over a 40k crit and it happens more then you think. These are just from my experiences so I hope that seems more clear.
The 30k crit club for a rogue isn't something out of the ordinary and the 40k + club is but it does happen. You can always check your combat log and look those numbers don't lie
That you don't play your GF as a tank is functionally irrelevant. That's like my taking an M1A2 on the Highway and saying "but officer, I'm not driving it as a tank!" Your GF isn't a striker any more than mine is or any more than taking an actual tank for a joyride makes it a car. You're simply not going to be able to put out DPS the same way a TR is, but you will be able to take hits that no TR can even if you never learn how to use your shield - which might be why you have had so much trouble with TR's in PvP.
Look, I get what you're saying about how you don't tank. That's fine, and if your group enjoys the way you play and how you contribute, that's great. But when it comes down to it, GF's are tanks. If your goal is to always top the charts, then make sure you either a)never party with any TR's and b)that your CW's are focused on controlling without doing a whole lot of damage.
If being tops in the damage chart is why you support these brutal changes to TR's, then to be blunt about it I consider that to be an exceptionally selfish and frankly immature motivation. If you want the titles, then go and faceroll Cloaktower 50 times. If you want to come by those titles through your own efforts, then it is a combination of high end gear/enchants and solid group work.
Ok good feedback. Yes my group I play with since I really don't currently like dungeons that is another story. Yes they do like my Dps and its the same group I PvP with. Sometimes we even roll 2 GF's me being the heavy Dps one the other one works on adds. That way we both get a run in so ends up being a lot of fun.
I agree a GF should be a tank I just feel Dungeons and class balance with bugs and exploits got off to a rough start in Beta. So a tank was never needed. Also a true tank isn't wanted in this game since no content really needs to be tanked. So I hope there is a future and buffs to the Protector tree and tanks will actually emerge and become viable. I am lvling my alt GF that I do some theory crafting on and building him to be a pure tank so I just hope there is a need some day for him to tank a Boss and soak up damage just right now I don't see it that way.
I do disagree with you thoughts on the changes to rogues though and feel they aren't brutal but needed. I hope that a dungeon will have a overall better experience and feel and need better group support in the future. Only time will tell though.
I hope that wasn't addressed at me, because a) I haven't in any way attacked you and b) your opinions seem to be at the core of your complaints. Since those complaints have been structured in a way that uses terminology that is completely wrong in context, it should be addressed the same way it was presented.
If you're able to engage in a civil and reasoned discussion, great. Otherwise, I'll continue to engage you in a civil and reasoned manner based on the content of what you post. This will include pointing out when I disagree and precisely why, which is what I have done. If you want to PM me, feel free to do so, but I'm perfectly comfortable continuing this conversation in public if you're able to do so. As far as I can tell, your argument has been completely played out and comes down to "I don't like this and therefore I want it to go away." That the basis for that argument appears to be selfish is extremely disappointing to me, as it means that there may be no point in actually engaging in such a discussion. I hope that is in error, and look forward to your clarifying that.
That makes perfect sense for PvP, which I do not think is the focus of the game! I of course have precisely no numbers or statistics to base than on, other than it isn't really the core of D&D.
What I think you may not be seeing is precisely why that works so well for you in PvP, and that is because you're playing a tank! GF's can be absolute monsters in PvP because of how tough they are, which is what allows them to do so much damage because they can stay standing and therefore swinging much longer than anyone else (GWF's with unstoppable up notwithstanding).
So since you don't play dungeons, I hope that you understand that many of us play them and enjoy them. In my case, much more than PvP which I frankly find boring. These changes to rogue are DEVASTATING in PvE and I expect they are going to negatively impact a very large number of players - everyone who does dungeons.
(except that was balanced before release)
We have 30 Powers, 17 directly affected by stealth. That's more than 50% of our powers are affected by stealth in one way or another. As well as 39 feats of which 10 directly pertaining to stealth. How can you fail to see how the test server nerfs to stealth do not directly hurt the class as a whole and indeed weakened at its very core. We did not design this class, we have only been given the class and told to play it using the powers and feats put into it. If you want to blame someone for its design then you need to speak to the developers, not the players.....
If you don't believe me just go here: http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Trickster_Rogue
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Well that's the thing tanks don't even tank in PvP. There block get broken from a couple at wills and there mitigation isn't really that helpful a GF can still get nuked and 1 shot which seems to be pretty squishy. Sure they have more then a CW, DC but now since everyone runs Arm pen and vorpal my 46% mitigation is no better then someone's 35% if the attack will 1 shot me. The only true tough tank in PvP is a GWF. They have 3 times the deflect possible for a GF so they take no damage then have Unstopable which is way, way better of a tanking skill then block. I have to block and it breaks in 2 secs. A gwf is immune to attacks, faster and take way less damage. Which is why I feel its the only good tank class currently just give a GWF threat and let them tank dungeons. Not to mention a GWF gets more HP easily too kinda makes me scratch my head.
I don't do many dungeons and I have a good who know's 50 maybe that I have done. Not 1 of those runs was I like at the end of it said- Great run guys lets do it again sometime I had a lot of fun. At the end of every run my thought was I hope I don't have to do this again but I like to help players out. I did the DD and some guild runs mainly. I just hate the content and the design of dungeons to me its really bad. Just adds and CC and poor class make ups all the time. I don't have a great answer on how to fix dungeons except to gut them and try to make them doable from a 1 of each class standpoint. I would like to see some real boss fights instead of ADD fights. Just hope they can adjust some classes to perform there roll better in dungeons and re make all of them. I think that is hoping a lot though so I just stay out of Dungeons for the most part because I just find them terrible and unenjoyable. That is not the dungeon feeling I should get from a Dungeons and Dragons game.
With that said I still have tons of fun in this game and enjoy it. I love PvP even though we only have 2 maps and think this game can be a tremendous PvP game and become known for it because of the combat system. We just need more maps and a system to play on.
I also love farming and theory crafting and have fun questing and doing stuff and I play with my friends and chat. I am looking forward to my new alt I am lvling which I am having a lot of fun on.
You bring up some interesting points. I didn't know 17 powers are affected by stealth that is good to know. So I guess making sure less are affected by it be a good thing to do. I also think that a new Tab ability not just for a rogue but for other classes to have more diverse builds. I have never ever ever ever used my Tab in PvP because I don't have a skill to use there
Unfortunately that would mean a complete rebuild of the Rogue class, from the ground up. We both know that will not happen.
As to the GF TAB skill, Taunt would seem to be the perfect skill to have for a tank class and no matter what you say your class is a tank class or is supposed to be anyway when played as it was designed. Sorry but that's my opinion.
It is a unique class, it depends on "stealth"
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Tanking in PvP only happens when a team really plays together and forces the opposing side to react in certain ways. This is a core strategy that requires some significant practice, no small degree of skill, but more importantly it requires excellent communication. It is also only required when facing a coordinated team, otherwise it devolves into your team capping points while hunting down five individuals. Not particularly exciting, but some people seem to really be into it. When I team with friends and we play another team, it can be a lot of fun, but when it is against a random group of people who have zero coordination it becomes boring to faceroll people who simply aren't enjoying the combination of a)not being able to keep any points and b) dying a lot.
By your own admission you are entirely PvP focused. I am going to ask that when you make any and all future posts about things being overpowered that you specifically address them as only relating to PvP. Frankly, I still think that you are 100% wrong about TR's being overpowered in PvP for reasons I have spelled out before (will happily do so again if you like). Unfortunately for you, this isn't going to do a whole lot to keep you from getting shredded in PvP but it is going to utterly crush people in PvE. You seem to want something very different than every other player I have played with to date, which makes sense since you have a completely different focus.
While I would also like to see a lot more thought put into the dungeons and the fights with the enemy leader types (things are better on the test server already in this regard), I do have a lot of fun running dungeons with both friends and PuG's. Somehow I ended up as the Sherpa for a bunch of French players (I speak almost no French) for Karrundax and ended up doing 9-10 runs with their friends last week. It's the same every time, but it was still a lot of fun since each group was different and the fights aren't painful - unlike Mad Dragon, which is just bloody annoying. Some of the ones that require strategy like the Wolf Den greatly benefit from a stealthy rogue since they can avoid it being a total addfest by not being hit by Marrowslake.
Wait, are you kidding? You never use Mark in PvP? WHY?!?! Use the class mechanic! Especially when someone isn't attacking you Mark can be huge for your teammates! Look, you're not team-focused at all. I get that. But the class mechanics really can be remarkably useful!
So yeah, it seems you hadn't been aware of stealth as the core mechanic of the TR class. Gutting stealth the way it has been done on the test server makes this core mechanic nearly useless and very broken. Since there has been nothing done to create anything for the TR as an alternate, this is a huge problem. 17 powers affected by stealth isn't a problem, but it makes a lot of sense since that is the core mechanic - misdirection, trickery, throwing sand in the other guys face before stomping on his instep makes perfect sense for a TR. If you don't want to call it stealth but "sand in enemy's eyes while you jump behind him and stab him" then fine, but that's what it is. Making it "mirror image" (formerly a wizard spell) but having the same effect is unnecessary unless you only care about being able to see them and target them in PvP. In which case GF's have plenty of ways to do so - including marking them BEFORE them enter stealth, blocking their attacks with the shield and then countering with an AoE, etc.
This is from a article written about another of Cryptic's titles...
THE ESCAPIST PORTAL: Cryptic: Star Trek Online's PVP Sucks
Cryptic: Star Trek Online's PVP Sucks!
A developer admits that Star Trek Online's PVP adds so little to the game, it wouldn't be missed if it was removed.
It's rare in this age of perpetual PR, where creators are constantly plugged into the marketing machine via Twitter, Facebook and forums, to see any developer admit that the game they're working on is anything less than brilliant, even when they're presented with evidence to the contrary. It's refreshing to see at least one developer who'll sit back and say, "yeah, okay. This is a bit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>."
Source: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.375024-Cryptic-Star-Trek-Onlines-PVP-Sucks
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
When it comes to top of the line gear on a rogue, Svetlana comes in near the top 5 %...
...and I have NEVER EVER hit anyone for 40k... And Maybe... once or twice have I hit 30k, but the gear difference between me and the victim was very large...
My Lashing Blade USUALLY hits from Stealth 10-15
Shocking 10-20... I have had a rare 25....
Just like other classes, ALOT of stuff factors into reaching these numbers...
Your Gear score vs Opponent.
Class of Opponent
Opponent Blocking, Dodging, Pot Drinking, Does Opponent have debuffs on such as Ray of Enfeeblement ..etc...
Now lets look at the other classes....
GF can bouncing Betty you for 20k ...3 shot without ever a chance of standing up.
GWF can use 2 encounters and take you to 10 % health or less.
DC in PvP spec can Beam of Death your as$ in a few quality hits.
CW...pffft.... they can one shot with Ice Knife ...if that isint enough RoE in tab + Entagle + Chill Strike = Respawn
So many factors come into play on who can kill who at what time...
If you had one fu*king iota of knowledge about rogues, you would know a PERMASTEALTH rogue sacrifices DPS AND HEALTH to achieve stealth and you can stand there scratching your balls while they DPS you and not feel a thing.
Some good points from your experience. Hmmmm don't know was just in a match and my buddy hit for 32k lashing blade and isn't geared out and was against another top rogue just saying. So I only see what I see.
One thing I have noticed is ill call out a perma stealth rogue in a match and they then enrage and say I am not perma stealth I don't use that cheese build. Well I can't tell the difference because they are almost always stealthed. 80% up time in stealth is to much for PvP. I have seen daggers melts a player from 100% to 0 from stealth in 3 secs and personally been hit with just daggers from stealth for 18k. That's just OP and before they start there 20k impact shot rotation. I still think any damage from stealth should break it once combat starts but that's just my opinion. I don't know why it seems I see rogues hitting 20-30k easy on the regular but I do. Maybe we can get the rogues that have 40k lashing blade crits to chime in. Once again these are my opinions on what I feel is to strong. I am extremely geared so players that don't have my gear get absolutely nuked and 1 shot and I can feel there pain and don't want them to get turned off. I hope PvP does grow and that is where my hopes will be.
For what you mentioned with the other classes. There just aren't many good CW's and rarely see a Ice Knife hurt I mean nothing past 10k. Where a SE is still way stronger.
GF sure they got a daily that I don't use I think its a waste but its prone CC is annoying for sure. Most GF's though don't do a ton of damage unless they get lucky with crits and well a GF has the lowest crit usually around 15%.
DC lets leave them alone poor DC's
GWF is Op for there tanking builds. No doubt there.
So you can't even tell a permastealth rogue from a rogue that just happens to be in stealth? And you are one of the most vocal people calling for stealth to be nerfed? Also, aren't you the guy who uses /leave anytime you have to fight a rogue?
So let me get this straight: you see a PvP rogue in stealth, you accuse them of being permastealth and then find out they aren't, you won't fight rogues because you think this "permastealth" is cheating, and then you come to the forums asking for rogues to be nerfed? Is that about right?
Whether they use a perma stealth build to the max or not fact is the uptime is to much. Its like potato or potahto its the same thing. 80% up time is cheesy build and I hope some adjustments are being addressed. I also hope they continue to take a look at stealth on the test server to make sure it doesn't get a big uptime. I don't leave anytime I fight a rogue lol. There are 2-3 rogues in every match since they are OP everyone uses them. I would never get any games in. I leave when players are exploiting the stealth build so that way I can find a match that has some PvP and fighting in it. You don't have to like it but me and my team thinks its worthwhile to protest it till its fixed.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
I just asked my buddy he has a normal vorpal his biggest crit with LA up was 60k on another rogue. Of course that is rare since its his biggest most likely some debuffs on him. Still. Get my friend a perfect vorpal maybe 70k. Rogues speak lowly of there damage I feel because they don't want any impending changes to there class and I don't blame them for being smart. I mean if I could get 40k crits in PvP I don't think I would advertise either.
I think you are missing the point here. It is a FACT that only 2-3% of rogues can afford the enchants necessary to do even close to what you are describing. I have a 12K gear score and can say flat out that I rarely, if ever, hit with anything above 25k. You can ask your friends all you want and tell us about your conspiracy theories on how rogues are under reporting their damage so they wont get nerfed. But the truth is that 95%+ of rogues can't get anywhere near the numbers you are making up...sorry, its true.
So... by the same logic, a CW who instagibs a gwf with ice knife because CW has his daily up needs a nerf too? Chillstrike can already hit 8k on a crit from a CW cn Mule(building hp and rechargespeed/AP). does that need a nerf?
Everyone can be geared out and deal a huge damage, not just rogues. gwfs still holds the title of burst king, 3rd in line for stun ur face to death, and #1 in survivablity in pvp, wheres rogue in this conversation? 2nd in line for burst, Last for stun, second to last in survivablity. I don't even see a comparison here.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
No, just no.
To have significant stealth uptime rogues have to do quite a few things include forgoing DPS skills and not using the equipment that leads to doing the most damage. To get more than a few seconds of stealth rogues have to spec for it. And no, it is not the same thing to be a permastealth rogue versus a rogue who is using their class feature.
While I don't know the friend you referenced and would hate to call someone out for dishonesty, I very much would like to see what precisely they were geared with for a 60K critical. I've never seen numbers like that off of any rogue.
Hmmmm I don't see a comparison either currently.
Best ranged = Rogue - Impact shot 20k and as my cleric friend likes to say. Dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger, dagger. OMG MAKE IT STOP dagger, dagger, dagger-- sorry guys I am dead.
Best melee = Rogue = Lashing blade 20-30k or 40k + on geared players
Best utility = Rogue= smoke bomb, stealth, immune, cc
A rogue has the best of everything best dailys, SE hits 3 times harder then Ice Knife no comparison.
Just unlimited abilities far above other classes and multiple builds where other classes don't. Some classes have 1 build and 3 skills Weeeee that's awesome. Spread the wealth is all I can say.
He's pretty good a good rogue to run with indeed. Just had 46kills in GG. Just have to impact shot 2 times dead. Lashing blade 1 time dead. A good rogue can nuke 3 separate targets at a base and kill all of them. Pretty sweet deal.
From: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?414611-Stealth-Build-Now-Dead/page19
Actually this right here. Noticed that stealth was taking a while longer to be ready.
I'll pretend this isn't a troll and make some corrections. I'm in the top 5% of geared rogues and these are my numbers.
Impact shot: Average 5k crit, I'm happy with 6k crits. Lurkers assualt highest crit on record 12k and I was mindblown
Lashing blade: Average 12k crit, im happy with 15k crits. Lurkers assualt highest crit 26k on record against a green cw
Utility: 1 slot for utility and out of that yes you can choose from an okay list. I choose ItC.
Then... vs equally geared average crits become high the high crits and on top of that they have more health.
Then I would like to compare stats of yours to the rogues I play with and also what I seen because that makes no sense on those numbers they seem more of a 50 lvl TR.
On 2 of the rogues in my guild doing premades the other night.
Impact shot consistently hitting- 10-12k normal and 20k+ with LA- mindblown was when he did a 28k impact crit.
Lashing blade all the time 15k normal LA easy easy 20k + not to mention at least 1 or more 30k+ per match. So that consistent
They are not top geared in the 5% because of normal vorpals.
On the receiving end its the same when I check the combat log. With on record the biggest lashing blade I took on 47.3% dmg mitigation at the time 36k. So on a cloth CW etc that would of been like a 45k blow. If the rogue I run with hits a target that is undergeared in greens as you say. Its a 40k + with his best crit ever being 60k. So we have a big difference on numbers. Your biggest crit 26k on record which I see every match. His biggest crit on record 3 times as much as your at 60k. So how are these numbers not adding up? You should be scoring 26k every match vs geared players and some 30k + with no problem on anything t1 or less. Not to mention if a target is debuffed you should hit for 40k+. So I don't understand why your hits are very low on the damage side. Compared to what I see everyday.
Alright lets see, because i'm curious myself as to why according to you i'm not hitting hard enough.
Will pull my stats later in the evening, get the numbers from your rogues as well and lets compare.