240 a year gets you acess to all content they will make for that year, F2P you only touch tip of the iceberg, you can get over that 240 in first day off just buying the stuff in the store. F2P is more about grab money fast before the casual player leaves the game. Meaning when a game is F2P they don't think their game can hold players. Probably because they built it for those fleeting customers who are not hard core fans. Which is really why games for the past 4 years have sucked ***.
I can tolerate a Cash Shop I cannot tolerate those Gambling boxes, why is it legal to gamble with real money in a game, but I can't even do that in my state?
What are you buying in the store that costs you $240 on your first day? The only thing I've bought so far is one bag and one companion. I didn't really need either, but decided to splurge a little.
I play STO, which also has those annoying lockboxes. I've not purchased any keys in either game because if I am going to make a purchase I want to know exactly what it is I am buying and at what price so that I can determine if the item will give me value relative to the cost. I'm not interested in maybe I'll get something worthwhile from opening the box when I'm more likely to get a lump of coal.
I am an adult capable of thinking for myself and making decisions about how I will spend my money. I'm not going to feel any sympathy for other adults who can not do the same.
Well, to be fair, Laws and Reason have not really gotten along for the better part of human existence... Laws are always motivated by giving a particular party/group/incomebracket some form of advantage through either direct or convoluted means... In conclusion, laws outside of the super horrific ones are meant to be broken so long as you're not a mouth breathing sheep (most of the world is).
Anyway... you're point about ftp being a cash grab is 100% accurate. Contrary to what tinkerstorm seems to be getting at, FTP generally cost a customer FAR more money than a subscription based game, while also giving the developers excuses to not provide pay to play levels of service. It's simply a lazy manipulative business model designed to pray on the weak minded, and children with their parents credit cards.
In the end, we only have players to blame for the shift in the mmo industry. Morons buy infinitely replicated digital content for large amounts of money which essentially is telling the devs that they are doing something right. If we as a gaming population want this ftp plague to go away, we are all going to have to talk with our wallets and stop buying dumb ****.
F2P games costs me far less than subscription based games. In fact, I used to spend three times as much each year to play just one subscription MMO compared to what I now spend to play three cash-shop MMOs.
As for blaming the players, fools have been getting separated from their money for thousands of years; no need to fault MMO publishers for that. And if other players blowing far more of their income buying mounts means I'm spending less than I used to spend, all the better for me.
Just curious... if everything were given away for free, how long would Neverwinter last without income from the store? Assuming that a good amount of that comes from the store?
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
It all comes down to the time <--> money thing. If you have more time, you won't have to spend as much money. If you don't have a lot of time, then you will have to spend *some* money, to get the same out of the game.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Many many many F2P games charge for bag slots, charge for character slots, charge for dungeon access, charge for Best in Slot weapons, some even going so far as to charge you for 30 days of usage of certain items. This cash shop isnt nearly as bad as it could be.
Of course there are games out there that charge for everything. And most of those games are HAMSTER. There are hundreds of mmos that are made to get every little penny. And, they have a HAMSTER playerbase, because they are bad games. This game is supposed to be a good game. You can't compare this game to those niche pos games. This should be more on the level of WoW, and build the playerbase before alienating them. This is more on the line of a nickel and dime game from SK.
Of course there are games out there that charge for everything. And most of those games are HAMSTER. There are hundreds of mmos that are made to get every little penny. And, they have a HAMSTER playerbase, because they are bad games. This game is supposed to be a good game. You can't compare this game to those niche pos games. This should be more on the level of WoW, and build the playerbase before alienating them. This is more on the line of a nickel and dime game from SK.
This is a F2P game, their main goal is to get you to buy things from the cash shop like EVERY other F2P game out there. It is not comparable to a P2P game except that it has quests and you level up and you kill things.
If I have learned anything from PW Customer service is that you should wait as long as possible to purchase anything because you are not getting your ZEN back if the item you just purchased is put on sale or price reduced 30 seconds later. Love the game, I really do but I have learned my lesson. Gonna be really thrifty with this game.
If I have learned anything from PW Customer service is that you should wait as long as possible to purchase anything because you are not getting your ZEN back if the item you just purchased is put on sale or price reduced 30 seconds later. Love the game, I really do but I have learned my lesson. Gonna be really thrifty with this game.
Why would you get your zen back just because it went on sale or the price was reduced. Give me one example on when this has ever happened.
Why would you get your zen back just because it went on sale or the price was reduced. Give me one example on when this has ever happened.
There are numerous retail businesses that advertise, "If you find it cheaper elsewhere, bring us proof and we'll refund the difference."
This is not a full refund of money spent, but it IS saying, we pride ourselves on low prices. If a competitor beats us, then...we'll make sure you get what the difference in cost is back. Doesn't matter if it's thirty cents or thirty dollars, we'll give it to you, AND let you keep the item.
There are also quite a few retail businesses that let you take a rain check on sale priced goods that are out of stock. AT SALE PRICE.
One can argue that the "goods" for sale in the store do indeed qualify as "retail goods" and the same courtesies should be applied, but in the end it -is- up to Craptic.....and we all know they don't care about customers, only their money.
This is simply so stupid, it needs a comment. There is nothing, not one thing AT ALL, In Cryptics years long history of making games, that indicates they want to be anything like WoW. From the design and limitations of their engine, to game play and mechanics choices. Cryptic has always kind of gone their own way.
Now of course the reaction to this is, but of course they want WoWs player count and money. Money perhaps, but players not a chance. Truth is, WoW numbers would kill Cryptic. They simply arnt large enough to handle it. Not even close to it. Cryptics goals have always been more modest. They dont need to compete with AAA games, and I dont honestly think they want to.
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
There are numerous retail businesses that advertise, "If you find it cheaper elsewhere, bring us proof and we'll refund the difference."
This is not a full refund of money spent, but it IS saying, we pride ourselves on low prices. If a competitor beats us, then...we'll make sure you get what the difference in cost is back. Doesn't matter if it's thirty cents or thirty dollars, we'll give it to you, AND let you keep the item.
There are also quite a few retail businesses that let you take a rain check on sale priced goods that are out of stock. AT SALE PRICE.
One can argue that the "goods" for sale in the store do indeed qualify as "retail goods" and the same courtesies should be applied, but in the end it -is- up to Craptic.....and we all know they don't care about customers, only their money.
Worst analogy ever and so way off the mark.
Neverwinter has no compitition selling the same items for less in the same game so they can not price match now can they.
No need for a rain check as they never run out of digital goods durring a sale.
You completely failed to grasp what the poster was saying he was saying Oh Heck I bought that 2 days ago now t went on sale I want my money back.
LOL you people really need to get a clue and stopp whinning over prices.
Wait for a sale or use your judgment as an adult as to what has value to you and stop complaing as others do buy at the current prices. If they did not then prices would have been dropped like many already have been.
Why would you get your zen back just because it went on sale or the price was reduced. Give me one example on when this has ever happened.
Its happened to myself quite a few times, in other games. I have also worked or a few who would prorate if the purchase was made a short period of time beforehand. Its pretty reasonable that when something goes on sale a short period of time after people made purchases that they would be prorated if they attempt to contact the company about it. This is not only true in MMOs, but in most CS, period. This of course means they first have to answer tickets rather than letting them sit for 7 days to be responded to with an automated message that they are deleting it and if you still have the same issue you need to write back in again - only to wait for another 7 days, rinse repeat. Blind defense here again as usual, and I also suspect lack of experience in other MMO CS.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
At the very least, they could have a grace period of, say, 1 week - if something goes on sale within 1 week of you purchasing it, they could refund you the difference. Not doing so, while technically not wrong, makes people regret their purchase and feel cheated.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
At the very least, they could have a grace period of, say, 1 week - if something goes on sale within 1 week of you purchasing it, they could refund you the difference. Not doing so, while technically not wrong, makes people regret their purchase and feel cheated.
Welcome to real life....
Do you feel cheated....
Darn that burger has a coupon in this weeks advert
Wonder if McDonalds will refund my money.
Look this truly is a black and white issue as so many of you want to try to convince yourselves that it is not....this game offers you a secure way to get ANYTHING from the cash shop, just by farming. This is one of the few games I have played that DOES offer this feature... Many games offer REAL MONEY ONLY services and items that the ONLY way you can get them is a "less the secure" trade with another player, or spending money.... REAL money, typically these items are game changing as well, so that the rich can utterly dominate the "poor" in the game because of it. NeverWinter does not have this flaw. I have spent money on this game because I chose to and I had the ability to. That being said, there are plenty of people who are richer in game then I could hope to be and have never dropped a dime.
Farm your "DDs", do leadership, buy Zen on a low with the AD you have and then resell on a high to make a profit. There are lots of ways to do this..... I know this is not going to be a popular statement I am about to type, but it seems as though the ones complaining are the ones who do not want to spend, nor do they want to put any effort forth either. I am not talking about playing 20 hours a day, but log in fast 2 times a day to refresh your leadership tasks, do a DD a day.... put out an effort and then reap the rewards...
You cannot have your cake and eat it as well, Cryptic/PWE need to generate a profit to validate the existence of the game and to allow for further updates..... The game truly is Free To Play, what more do you want....
All I Truly see here, are a bunch of whiny brats that want something "NOW!!" and are trying to cry until they get it.... bottom line is that you do not "NEED" perfect enchants, you do not "NEED" CN weapons, you do not "NEED" res scrolls.... you "WANT" these things, and you can have them, you just need to 1) buy them, or 2) work for them..... so again I will state this..
>
You must not have played many games then, even if what you said were entirely true which its not. Of course you could spend months farming ad to swap for zen, but this is not new or rare in mmos.
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mrz1mmersMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Personally I feel a sense of achievement that I didn't have to break out the wallet for an account bound epic mount, 6 char slots, respec tokens, and gear for 5 level 60 chars...... Instant gratification is overrated, and completely defeats the purpose of an MMORPG..... You want Instant Gratification? Why bother even playing the game? Why not just petition cryptic to start you out at level 60 with ALL of your gear and the best mounts?
You guys talk about the game like it's a job or something "Time is money, and farming AD is too costly on my time!" and all that nonsense...... WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A GAME?!?!?! You are likely playing a game to take up some of your EXTRA time!
I'm sure that before long (if it hasn't happened already), we'll start running into Neverwinter Ebabies. Basically max level Neverwinter characters that have been bought off of Ebay. I remember back in my Everquest days of grouping with one. Worse one of the lot. High level character with gear to match... who had no idea how to attack anything. What a way to get a party wiped out...
I'm taking a guess here, but perhaps some players out there have neither time nor money, so the would want everything sooner without having to wait too long or pay too much money for it.
Whatever happened to the idea of playing a game to have fun? Or is "fun doing something" an outdated concept this day and age?
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Comments
What are you buying in the store that costs you $240 on your first day? The only thing I've bought so far is one bag and one companion. I didn't really need either, but decided to splurge a little.
I play STO, which also has those annoying lockboxes. I've not purchased any keys in either game because if I am going to make a purchase I want to know exactly what it is I am buying and at what price so that I can determine if the item will give me value relative to the cost. I'm not interested in maybe I'll get something worthwhile from opening the box when I'm more likely to get a lump of coal.
I am an adult capable of thinking for myself and making decisions about how I will spend my money. I'm not going to feel any sympathy for other adults who can not do the same.
F2P games costs me far less than subscription based games. In fact, I used to spend three times as much each year to play just one subscription MMO compared to what I now spend to play three cash-shop MMOs.
As for blaming the players, fools have been getting separated from their money for thousands of years; no need to fault MMO publishers for that. And if other players blowing far more of their income buying mounts means I'm spending less than I used to spend, all the better for me.
Your not suggesting they stop wanting money?
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Of course there are games out there that charge for everything. And most of those games are HAMSTER. There are hundreds of mmos that are made to get every little penny. And, they have a HAMSTER playerbase, because they are bad games. This game is supposed to be a good game. You can't compare this game to those niche pos games. This should be more on the level of WoW, and build the playerbase before alienating them. This is more on the line of a nickel and dime game from SK.
This is a F2P game, their main goal is to get you to buy things from the cash shop like EVERY other F2P game out there. It is not comparable to a P2P game except that it has quests and you level up and you kill things.
Why would you get your zen back just because it went on sale or the price was reduced. Give me one example on when this has ever happened.
There are numerous retail businesses that advertise, "If you find it cheaper elsewhere, bring us proof and we'll refund the difference."
This is not a full refund of money spent, but it IS saying, we pride ourselves on low prices. If a competitor beats us, then...we'll make sure you get what the difference in cost is back. Doesn't matter if it's thirty cents or thirty dollars, we'll give it to you, AND let you keep the item.
There are also quite a few retail businesses that let you take a rain check on sale priced goods that are out of stock. AT SALE PRICE.
One can argue that the "goods" for sale in the store do indeed qualify as "retail goods" and the same courtesies should be applied, but in the end it -is- up to Craptic.....and we all know they don't care about customers, only their money.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
This is simply so stupid, it needs a comment. There is nothing, not one thing AT ALL, In Cryptics years long history of making games, that indicates they want to be anything like WoW. From the design and limitations of their engine, to game play and mechanics choices. Cryptic has always kind of gone their own way.
Now of course the reaction to this is, but of course they want WoWs player count and money. Money perhaps, but players not a chance. Truth is, WoW numbers would kill Cryptic. They simply arnt large enough to handle it. Not even close to it. Cryptics goals have always been more modest. They dont need to compete with AAA games, and I dont honestly think they want to.
Worst analogy ever and so way off the mark.
Neverwinter has no compitition selling the same items for less in the same game so they can not price match now can they.
No need for a rain check as they never run out of digital goods durring a sale.
You completely failed to grasp what the poster was saying he was saying Oh Heck I bought that 2 days ago now t went on sale I want my money back.
LOL you people really need to get a clue and stopp whinning over prices.
Wait for a sale or use your judgment as an adult as to what has value to you and stop complaing as others do buy at the current prices. If they did not then prices would have been dropped like many already have been.
Its happened to myself quite a few times, in other games. I have also worked or a few who would prorate if the purchase was made a short period of time beforehand. Its pretty reasonable that when something goes on sale a short period of time after people made purchases that they would be prorated if they attempt to contact the company about it. This is not only true in MMOs, but in most CS, period. This of course means they first have to answer tickets rather than letting them sit for 7 days to be responded to with an automated message that they are deleting it and if you still have the same issue you need to write back in again - only to wait for another 7 days, rinse repeat. Blind defense here again as usual, and I also suspect lack of experience in other MMO CS.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Welcome to real life....
Do you feel cheated....
Darn that burger has a coupon in this weeks advert
Wonder if McDonalds will refund my money.
You must not have played many games then, even if what you said were entirely true which its not. Of course you could spend months farming ad to swap for zen, but this is not new or rare in mmos.
You guys talk about the game like it's a job or something "Time is money, and farming AD is too costly on my time!" and all that nonsense...... WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A GAME?!?!?! You are likely playing a game to take up some of your EXTRA time!
I'm taking a guess here, but perhaps some players out there have neither time nor money, so the would want everything sooner without having to wait too long or pay too much money for it.
Whatever happened to the idea of playing a game to have fun? Or is "fun doing something" an outdated concept this day and age?
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*