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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Have to clear all Trash to get DD chest... Please make this happen..

abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
There should be no reward if you don't earn it. I am tired of all the groups that want to run threw stuff to die and not clear trash that isn't that hard to begin with. I left my party at Karrundax cause they were just trying to exploit run threw simple trash to just die. Well if I don't have to die I won't. I think a great fix to this is that you have to clear all trash to get your DD chest. That way there is a reward for what you did. If you do short cuts fine you just don't get a chest. Dungeons are terrible and the parties that just want to exploit them are worse. Lets try and improve DD hour by making it that you actually have to do the Dungeon to get your chest reward. Thanks!!
Post edited by abombination247 on
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Comments

  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    well and then some random mob bugs somewhere in the wall or whatever and you dont get your chest

    what they should do is to add more objectives and that you have to do them in order to get the chest

    like in icespire, dont make it that you just have to kill the endboss but add objectives to kill the other bosses too and suddenly they all have to be killed in order to get the chest
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    All I heard was....lets make running the dungeon take longer than needed.

    Sorry you don't understand that small point but after 30 - 100 DD runs you might...just might understand why folks skip trash. Until then, you complaining about it shows that you are still a green horn.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    The existing dungeons need to be written off as map designer learning experiences at this point. It's a shame that Malabog whatever castle was probably created months ago and likely includes all our favorite dungeon experiences:

    -Trash with way too much hp
    -Ledges
    -Ominous trash pulls standing way outside of agro range (to frustrate this OP)
    -Bosses with too much hp that do nothing but spawn adds
    -Awful loot off Delve
    -Scalable walls
    -Campfires that are not separated by "use" objects


    Stop building terrible maps please.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • ceryndrionceryndrion Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    One of the problems that I think a lot of people have, is that they only see the dungeons, from the perspective of their "epic" versions, which are crowded, and to be honest, not a lot of fun. However, if you go back and play through the original design, they are a lot more enjoyable, and I strongly believe that if the epic versions were like the normal versions, only with higher level mobs, less people would complain, and more people would do them..

    I compared a few of the dungeons, and it seemed to me, that the main differences between normal and epic, are that most if not all traps are removed in the epic version, and the number of monsters at any given spawn, is basically doubled..

    It doesn't need to be like that. And it could be designed and implemented better.
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  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ceryndrion wrote: »
    I strongly believe that if the epic versions were like the normal versions, only with higher level mobs, less people would complain, and more people would do them..

    I compared a few of the dungeons, and it seemed to me, that the main differences between normal and epic, are that most if not all traps are removed in the epic version, and the number of monsters at any given spawn, is basically doubled..

    It doesn't need to be like that. And it could be designed and implemented better.


    I think you probably have a very good point there. Quality over quantity and all that- if there were similar amount of monsters, but they hurt more and took a bit more killing (though don't go overboard on the HP, it's just tedious makework and not fun). If they were more dangerous, there would be more of an imperative to let the tank pick stuff up, CC mobs etc., and play as a team.

    Because the mobs hit harder, they would require precise, focussed play rather than zerging. However, because there is a sane amount of them, it doesn't get too slow and boring.

    Well, in a perfect world, that's what I'd like. I expect that the people spamming "LF <whatever> for T2 - MUST HAVE 10k+ GS STONE AND EXP!!! FAST RUN!" might beg to differ.
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited July 2013
    They should cut down the length of dungeon runs to between 45-60 minutes. 2 hours on a T2 run is not fun.
  • shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    abombination247 wrote: »
    There should be no reward if you don't earn it. I am tired of all the groups that want to run threw stuff to die and not clear trash that isn't that hard to begin with. I left my party at Karrundax cause they were just trying to exploit run threw simple trash to just die. Well if I don't have to die I won't. I think a great fix to this is that you have to clear all trash to get your DD chest. That way there is a reward for what you did. If you do short cuts fine you just don't get a chest. Dungeons are terrible and the parties that just want to exploit them are worse. Lets try and improve DD hour by making it that you actually have to do the Dungeon to get your chest reward. Thanks!!

    Yeah like there isnt enough trash to kill already. Tell you what, you can organize your own party and kill every single trash. Just because you like wasting your time on stuff you can use shortcut on, dosent mean others must follow.

    /Not signed.
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Throwing stuff off ledges is a perfectly valid and functional tactic, and can also be a heck of a lot of fun. There is no need to kill everything and a troll thread about it is silly. The main change to Dungeon Delves should be to to do away with them altogether so that there is ALWAYS a chest at the end with loot for everyone who participated. It's a bit annoying doing over 20 runs and not having any loot to show for it.
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • osadamaskosadamask Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The fact that we refer to the majority of a dungeon as "trash" should be an indicator.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    osadamask wrote: »
    The fact that we refer to the majority of a dungeon as "trash" should be an indicator.

    Not really, it's an MMO convention to call all non-boss mobs "trash", even if they're entirely splendid and worthwhile.
  • bpphantombpphantom Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    well and then some random mob bugs somewhere in the wall or whatever and you dont get your chest

    what they should do is to add more objectives and that you have to do them in order to get the chest

    like in icespire, dont make it that you just have to kill the endboss but add objectives to kill the other bosses too and suddenly they all have to be killed in order to get the chest

    I agree. Add in boss mechanics and suddenly it's a proper dungeon.
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  • imsmithyimsmithy Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The OP's idea is one of those that sounds good in theory but doesn't translate to reality quite so well , lets take epic idris as an example , a super easy epic I think most would agree but that dungeon has maybe 3 or more different routes through it , are you seriously saying that each and every mob from all the different routes should be cleared to get the chest? as well as that what if just one mob glitches into a void or wall? nobody gets loot = unhappy players , making various intelligently thought out objectives would be a better idea imho.
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    osadamask wrote: »
    The fact that we refer to the majority of a dungeon as "trash" should be an indicator.

    It's MMO speak like "mobs" and "aggro." It's to differentiate between the easier to kill common foes that tend to appear in larger numbers and the more powerful "boss" types that take more effort to kill.

    If you're not used to it, it does sound pretty strange. Actually, it still sounds pretty strange once you're used to it. :)
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    imsmithy wrote: »
    making various intelligently thought out objectives would be a better idea imho.

    This.
    Have multiple and interchangeable objectives that can be completed in any order, which can include "run here and kill this" to keep it simple in the current dungeons (rather than requiring complete re-designs). Having more ways to achieve successful outcomes is a great way to go.
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How about having the quality and quantity of the items in the DD chest depend for example on the number of minibosses killed ? If you decide to skip them, fine - you will get to the end faster, but your reward will be less.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    adinosii wrote: »
    How about having the quality and quantity of the items in the DD chest depend for example on the number of minibosses killed ? If you decide to skip them, fine - you will get to the end faster, but your reward will be less.

    This would be a good idea for folks that want a chance to get a little "extra".

    I could support the idea that if you smoke everything in the dungeon you have a chance at TWO pieces of gear in the DD chest.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    adinosii wrote: »
    How about having the quality and quantity of the items in the DD chest depend for example on the number of minibosses killed ? If you decide to skip them, fine - you will get to the end faster, but your reward will be less.

    This and the other idea about having any missed mini-bosses spawn at the end woudl both be interesting...
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    tarmalen wrote: »
    All I heard was....lets make running the dungeon take longer than needed.

    Sorry you don't understand that small point but after 30 - 100 DD runs you might...just might understand why folks skip trash. Until then, you complaining about it shows that you are still a green horn.

    Folks skip trash cause they are bad and don't know how to do it the correct way.
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    imsmithy wrote: »
    The OP's idea is one of those that sounds good in theory but doesn't translate to reality quite so well , lets take epic idris as an example , a super easy epic I think most would agree but that dungeon has maybe 3 or more different routes through it , are you seriously saying that each and every mob from all the different routes should be cleared to get the chest? as well as that what if just one mob glitches into a void or wall? nobody gets loot = unhappy players , making various intelligently thought out objectives would be a better idea imho.

    It's the thought that counts. I will take any idea that will make them better so players stop being stupid with shortcuts and cheats. Just makes the dungeon even more unenjoyable. When completing a dungeon there should be a experience behind it. Should be rich there will be some that of course suck and you don't enjoy but over all when you complete it especially if you are geared you should be like that was fun great run. Any strat that involves purposely wiping to gain something is no strat at all and needs to be fixed. Never have I entered a dungeon in another MMO where it was ok we are gonna run and wipe then respawn, then wipe then respawn. No entering a dungeon you should buff up, flask up and down stuff. Get loot and feel good about it.
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    abombination247 wrote: »
    Folks skip trash cause they are bad and don't know how to do it the correct way.

    You go ahead and clear trash....let me know how that works out for you after 10, 20, 30 + times.
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    tarmalen wrote: »
    You go ahead and clear trash....let me know how that works out for you after 10, 20, 30 + times.

    Don't you want a certain feeling when you are playing ? or is it just about the reward? Why do you do dungeons anyways. They should be a big draw with nice design and give you a great feeling in entering and completing them regardless of whats at the end. Currently that's not happening is all.
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    abombination247 wrote: »
    Don't you want a certain feeling when you are playing ? or is it just about the reward? Why do you do dungeons anyways. They should be a big draw with nice design and give you a great feeling in entering and completing them regardless of whats at the end. Currently that's not happening is all.

    That was over 50 DDs ago. Yes I want the reward. I want set pieces and I want AD.

    Killing trash for the millionth time gives neither.
  • aaronjfaaronjf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Maybe if they had trash actually drop something useful.. Maybe if they dropped more coin.. As it stands, the majority of groups I am in pass on the green/need identifying drops. They are garbage and a waste of programming. Skipping some trash by hugging a wall, knocking them off of a ledge etc when there is a ledge there isn't cheating. Everquest, WoW and many other games are like this. You can avoid certain parts w/o consequence. Using terrain to exploit, falling through the floor to bypass everything except the last boss etc are what I consider cheats. The programmers, I believe, wanted things to get knocked off ledges etc. Why would they implement skills that did so if that weren't the point? It is a far cry from the true exploits these dungeons started with imo.
  • riqitariqita Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 297 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    They implemented skills that allow you to blow mobs away from melee.
    That opens up a breather. Not so sure about knocking mobs off ledges since they've also added some walls.

    I skip on greens. But fighting trash is fine.
    I do like being able to run dungeons twice.
    But more than twice feels too much like an exploit.
  • itzkiiingitzkiiing Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    abombination247 wrote: »
    Folks skip trash cause they are bad and don't know how to do it the correct way.


    Haha.. No Folks skip trash because we have run the dungeon over 50 times and know its not worth spending an extra hour (not to mention pots and kits) fighting trash mobs for absolutely no gain.

    Example.. When I run Karrundax with my experienced guild I can run it 3 times easy during a DD (and not use many pots or kits, and get a nice profit).. when I run the DD with someone like you or a pug.. I end up using pot after pot, kit after kit, because you want to clear all the trash, or not listen to what everyone else is saying and do your own thing. I ran Karrandux this morning with a not so experienced group and I was lucky to get one run in and it lasted for over 2 hours.. That's so much time wasted. When you start to run a lot of t2's you will understand how to min/max time and profit.. Until then i guess have fun clearing everything.. because there is absolutely NO gain in doing so.
  • aaronjfaaronjf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Ya, it's pretty bad when you can run a whole instance killing a good majority of the trash and not get enough coin out of it to pay for injury kits/pots. I will have to start keeping track, but I would be surprised if one makes near 1 gold per dungeon run from trash drops (coin and unidentified garbage) at the t1/t2 lvl .
    That folks skip trash because they are bad is bs. If the folks were bad, they wouldn't defeat the final boss. Trash fights in this game and past mmo's that I have played are pretty mind numbing. No talent needed for the most part. People run dungeons for 2 reasons typically. The experience/fun/excitement it gives to learn new encounters etc and for loot. Neverwinter has one boss model. SPAWN MORE ADDS which really isn't fun or exciting.. That leaves one reason left to run a dungeon.. LOOT. That means people are going to run through as fast as they can so they can get their shiny. If it weren't for the dd chest loot wouldn't even give me a good reason to run because the loot drops are pretty bad. One drop per boss. I have run too many dungeons too many times w/o seeing a single piece of gear drop that I can use..
  • itzkiiingitzkiiing Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    aaronjf wrote: »
    Ya, it's pretty bad when you can run a whole instance killing a good majority of the trash and not get enough coin out of it to pay for injury kits/pots. I will have to start keeping track, but I would be surprised if one makes near 1 gold per dungeon run from trash drops (coin and unidentified garbage) at the t1/t2 lvl .
    That folks skip trash because they are bad is bs. If the folks were bad, they wouldn't defeat the final boss. Trash fights in this game and past mmo's that I have played are pretty mind numbing. No talent needed for the most part. People run dungeons for 2 reasons typically. The experience/fun/excitement it gives to learn new encounters etc and for loot. Neverwinter has one boss model. SPAWN MORE ADDS which really isn't fun or exciting.. That leaves one reason left to run a dungeon.. LOOT. That means people are going to run through as fast as they can so they can get their shiny. If it weren't for the dd chest loot wouldn't even give me a good reason to run because the loot drops are pretty bad. One drop per boss. I have run too many dungeons too many times w/o seeing a single piece of gear drop that I can use..

    Exactly this.. Also if I'm not mistaken for a normal t2 run after selling all the crappy green items I usually make around 30 to 50 silver.. which is laughable at best.. It pays for like 2 injury kits.. So once again.. Have fun clearing all the trash.. Good Luck OP
  • amberongreenamberongreen Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    tarmalen wrote: »
    You go ahead and clear trash....let me know how that works out for you after 10, 20, 30 + times.

    I'll never understand people who want to finish dungeons as quickly as possible, skipping as much trash as they can, using cheats and exploits and glitches to get though it with as little gameplay as they can.

    What's the point? So they can get to the end and get their gear, which they then use in the next run to not fight?

    If trash is boring in any given dungeon, the solution is not to take it out, the solution is to make it more difficult so it's not a hindrance, it's a challenge.

    Whenever I hear people say, "I hate fighting trash", all I hear is "I don't actually like playing this game, I just want a digital pat on the back in the form of purple pixels."
  • zjesminzzjesminz Member Posts: 183 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
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  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    tarmalen wrote: »
    That was over 50 DDs ago. Yes I want the reward. I want set pieces and I want AD.

    Killing trash for the millionth time gives neither.

    If you don't enjoy it well I won't suggest the obvious option then.

    Its not the reward. Its the journey
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