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GWF = New Tank. Goodbye GFs.

nachofootnachofoot Member Posts: 29 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvE Discussion
Who tested this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> before they put it on the servers? When can GWFs tank better in PvE & PvP?

GFs get what? A block meter than renders them useless when its gone? If I understand this new meta, then we need to dump GF as a class...


GWF has: Unstoppable, Temp HP, Great Defense, Movement Speed, Healing.

GF has: Shield that breaks in 5 seconds, Threat generation. Threat generation is the only thing making GFs usable. GWFs are superior in every other way.
Post edited by nachofoot on
«13

Comments

  • kinglekingle Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It would have been nice to go in detail than just two sentences of pure rage, some facts some statistics you know something that people can reason. Just saying.
  • jihancritiasjihancritias Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Any time I don't have a gf in group, it gets a heck of a lot harder. Anyone that consistently runs without a gf in the group has something else going on. I don't see it as possible really.
    TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
  • lyfebanelyfebane Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 312 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    as a GWF`s role is still Defender like GF I would expect that GWF could tank reasonably well. The GF should be better and easier for a group, but a GWF should be able to fill the role relatively well.
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  • sirjestosirjesto Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 176 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I think everyone is forgetting that GF's generate far more threat.
  • loverboyusaloverboyusa Member Posts: 61
    edited July 2013
    Thread creator dunno about classes. Dungeons or pvp at alls.

    If you have a conflicting story about a class or classes bring some substantial evidence to back up your claims. Whether it be you are right or wrong we cannot and will not look at the objects of focus. There is much facts that the GF is much better at being the tank in a group. With Titan's and Valiant Dualist you will be quite tanky but the threat you make compared to a tanky GF is very differential. Tanks are normally used as aggro magnets and by no means can you claim GWF is better at it then GF. Peace out yall.
    happy days!
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sirjesto wrote: »
    I think everyone is forgetting that GF's generate far more threat.

    Basically this. The GWF can tank pretty well but its threat generation is nothing compared to a GF.
  • onehappygnadeonehappygnade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    mconosrep wrote: »
    Basically this. The GWF can tank pretty well but its threat generation is nothing compared to a GF.
    Yep exactly, and in order to gain better threat they have to sacrifice feats into it within the sentinel tree, which could be seen a little pointless at times since doing 100% threat at 0 is still 0
  • sogronnwosogronnwo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 96
    edited July 2013
    I have a friend with a really outstanding Sentinel GWF. And I mean REALLY outstanding. He's the only GWF with whom I dare to go to T2 instances without a GF and it's still harder, but on a manageable level. The way I see it the best sentinel GWFs are on par with mediocre GFs, so I don't see your problem. It is one of the rare things Cryptic balanced out right in my opinion.
  • scottbriscottbri Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I feel bad for most GWF's in pug's as a GF. I think the GWF should be more inline with CW's and control them adds. However, they are not replacing GF's anytime soon. :)
  • kiadannahkiadannah Member Posts: 97
    edited July 2013
    well. I have one of the most defensive gwf's in the game. 46% defence and 40% deflect. Sadly I do tend to outdo many gf's (the ones that insist on clothing themselves in paper, giving them almost no defense at all, lol)
    Then there are others. I know a gf with 69% def % and 34% deflect. THATS a tank. a gwf can never get that high.

    Yes that includes sentinals. I wanna make you guys laugh, all the complaints on them, their final skill doesn't even work. no defence bonus at all, etc. :P

    Even a sentinel, cant keep threat against anything (my other gwf, int based in sentinel to test). GF's take agro easy. so does every other class, healers and cw's, and tr's.

    Here is a sad truth, they can tank, because they are dressed to tank. Wearing high defence / deflect stuff, to have survivability, with life drain / unstoppable for utility / self healing.

    Another truth, every class, even cw, can tank in this setup, even without unstoppable. especially cw's running regen / lifesteal with their power / crit / controls.

    As a matter of fact I know a cw personally that laughs at most people, that will clear a decent sized room with a small boss in it or two in castle never.
    and do it better than most other classes because of aoe's.
    and he can tank them. go figure?
    Every class can tank, to a degree. GF does it best and keeps agro best.
    Then gwf, depending on gear (the ones full offensive are paper, and **** and completely reliant on a healer just to fight)
    then cleric (tons of self healing, dodge, knockback etc)
    then cw
    then tr.
    (1v1, tr is probably first place here against bosses, or second, this listing is against a decent sized room of cn monsters.
  • chipsterchipster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    kiadannah wrote: »
    well. I have one of the most defensive gwf's in the game. 46% defence and 40% deflect. Sadly I do tend to outdo many gf's (the ones that insist on clothing themselves in paper, giving them almost no defense at all, lol)
    Then there are others. I know a gf with 69% def % and 34% deflect. THATS a tank. a gwf can never get that high.

    Yes that includes sentinals. I wanna make you guys laugh, all the complaints on them, their final skill doesn't even work. no defence bonus at all, etc. :P

    Even a sentinel, cant keep threat against anything (my other gwf, int based in sentinel to test). GF's take agro easy. so does every other class, healers and cw's, and tr's.

    Here is a sad truth, they can tank, because they are dressed to tank. Wearing high defence / deflect stuff, to have survivability, with life drain / unstoppable for utility / self healing.

    Another truth, every class, even cw, can tank in this setup, even without unstoppable. especially cw's running regen / lifesteal with their power / crit / controls.

    As a matter of fact I know a cw personally that laughs at most people, that will clear a decent sized room with a small boss in it or two in castle never.
    and do it better than most other classes because of aoe's.
    and he can tank them. go figure?
    Every class can tank, to a degree. GF does it best and keeps agro best.
    Then gwf, depending on gear (the ones full offensive are paper, and **** and completely reliant on a healer just to fight)
    then cleric (tons of self healing, dodge, knockback etc)
    then cw
    then tr.
    (1v1, tr is probably first place here against bosses, or second, this listing is against a decent sized room of cn monsters.

    Don't make me laugh... GWF are the new TANK nowadays... great defence, temp HP, unstoppable. A GF shield break in what? 5 second?
  • skyewolf1skyewolf1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    (Caveat: I just woke up...I *think* all my grammar makes sense but you never know)

    I can't speak from personal experience since I haven't actually played a GWF myself however I do know that they are a force to be reckoned with in PvP. If the other team has a single GWF though and we don't we have a chance of beating them, if they come in with both GWF and GF and we have neither...we know we're pretty well screwed.

    I've done pug groups in dungeons with a GWF and without a GF and it's a LOT harder. Without a GF using threat generation properly the dungeons are difficult and some are impossible.

    Seems to me everyone in the group needs to understand their class and role, once that is accomplished you actually do have balance to some degree. When our guild runs dungeons we have a rule... "you spank it you tank it". If the CW is going to run in ahead of everyone and pull all the aggro, he deserves to die. ;)
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  • sirjestosirjesto Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 176 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Don't make me laugh... GWF are the new TANK nowadays... great defence, temp HP, unstoppable. A GF shield break in what? 5 second?


    Actually with the right feats being used a well spec'd GF can keep a shield up almost indefinatly.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Don't make me laugh... GWF are the new TANK nowadays... great defence, temp HP, unstoppable. A GF shield break in what? 5 second?

    Um, even if everything you said wasn't complete hyperbole, you do know that a tank is only useful because he can get aggro?
  • kojirenkojiren Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Don't make me laugh... GWF are the new TANK nowadays... great defence, temp HP, unstoppable. A GF shield break in what? 5 second?

    Us GWFs tank gud when the broken shield still will get more threat then us.

    Plus if a GF is dead just because the shield broke, then he's doing it wrong.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I am starting to think that the OP must be a CW or TR alt trying to get the GWF nerfed so that they become target practice again in PvP...
  • bagis92bagis92 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Don't make me laugh... GWF are the new TANK nowadays... great defence, temp HP, unstoppable. A GF shield break in what? 5 second?

    Funny guy...

    FACT 1: Even GF with full dps build is better tank than Sentinel - More thread generation and fast AP recharge combined with Fighter's Recovery is tough enough to take whole room of enemies. Sent can just have hope someone will notice him. And wont even outdps guardian.

    Fully tanky GF is still rare sight in Neverwinter (or at least on Mindflayer) I used that build before 1st balance patch and I can't say how it works now.
  • chipsterchipster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    bagis92 wrote: »
    Funny guy...

    FACT 1: Even GF with full dps build is better tank than Sentinel - More thread generation and fast AP recharge combined with Fighter's Recovery is tough enough to take whole room of enemies. Sent can just have hope someone will notice him. And wont even outdps guardian.

    Fully tanky GF is still rare sight in Neverwinter (or at least on Mindflayer) I used that build before 1st balance patch and I can't say how it works now.

    Interesting respond..

    You know why Full tanky GF is rare in sight? because it utterly rubbish. Play a Tank/DPS/Unstoppable GWF is way way better.
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Go back under your rock.

    I have tried being a tank and it is not sustainable. GWF is a force but when it comes to threat, holding aggro and taking the punishment we cannot compare to GF.

    Sure we can tank T1 even clerics can. In T2 that is a different story.
  • nachofootnachofoot Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    tarmalen wrote: »
    Go back under your rock.

    I have tried being a tank and it is not sustainable. GWF is a force but when it comes to threat, holding aggro and taking the punishment we cannot compare to GF.

    Sure we can tank T1 even clerics can. In T2 that is a different story.

    That's complete BS.

    Like another poster said: GWF has Unstoppable, Temp HP, Great Defense, Movement Speed, Healing.

    GF has: Shield that breaks in 5 seconds, Threat generation. Threat generation is the only thing making GFs usable. GWFs are superior in every other way.
  • bagis92bagis92 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Interesting respond..

    You know why Full tanky GF is rare in sight? because it utterly rubbish. Play a Tank/DPS/Unstoppable GWF is way way better.

    Why It's better? Because you think so? Make a grp with GF and GWF, finish dungeon without exploiting it and then post a video. Thread Generation > Survivability. Why should I care about my 80% (whatevs, pickin' random numbers for ex ) resistance and 50% deflection if my char barely can get adds attention? Send your sentinel to pvp match and troll entire enemy team at one point.
  • sirjestosirjesto Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 176 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    nachofoot wrote: »
    That's complete BS.

    Like another poster said: GWF has Unstoppable, Temp HP, Great Defense, Movement Speed, Healing.

    GF has: Shield that breaks in 5 seconds, Threat generation. Threat generation is the only thing making GFs usable. GWFs are superior in every other way.


    Not sure about that.

    In 95% of the DD I do I top damage inflicted. In 100% I top damage absorbed. I tank every enemy in the room and have a shield that can stay up almost indefinately. Hard to beat that.

    What could possibly make a GWF more useful?
  • chai23chai23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Less than a week ago you guys were complaining that GF was OP. The collective memory of the previous class power ladder must be like 4 days.
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    chai23 wrote: »
    Less than a week ago you guys were complaining that GF was OP. The collective memory of the previous class power ladder must be like 4 days.

    I'm thinking it has a 3 day cool down. O.o
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sirjesto wrote: »
    Not sure about that.

    In 95% of the DD I do I top damage inflicted. In 100% I top damage absorbed. I tank every enemy in the room and have a shield that can stay up almost indefinately. Hard to beat that.

    What could possibly make a GWF more useful?

    It isn't. The OP is most likely a TR or CW alt, trying to get the GWF nerfed and thinks doing it this way is less 'obvious'. Either that or they really have no clue how to properly build and play a GF.
  • kinglekingle Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Interesting respond..

    You know why Full tanky GF is rare in sight? because it utterly rubbish. Play a Tank/DPS/Unstoppable GWF is way way better.
    You just lost to a GWF and is raging and screaming that they are OP with no numbers, no stats no nothing just raging. We all know you got butt hurt but stop making claims with out proof. Have a nice day :)
  • nachofootnachofoot Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    mconosrep wrote: »
    It isn't. The OP is most likely a TR or CW alt, trying to get the GWF nerfed and thinks doing it this way is less 'obvious'. Either that or they really have no clue how to properly build and play a GF.

    You can post the same thing twice or three times. No one is gonna buy it. If you actually read the thread, you could see that I am neither. Take a guess again what class I play. I bet the other posters can guess where you can't...


    Ask yourself a question. Why is GF equipment cheaper than all other classes?
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited July 2013
    kingle wrote: »
    You just lost to a GWF and is raging and screaming that they are OP with no numbers, no stats no nothing just raging. We all know you got butt hurt but stop making claims with out proof. Have a nice day :)

    Quoted for truth.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nachofoot wrote: »
    You can post the same thing twice or three times. No one is gonna buy it.

    You should take your own advice......

    Anyway, I am sorry you got butt-hurt enough to come and cry on the Forums, but seriously you are not helping your case here.
  • shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    mconosrep wrote: »
    It isn't. The OP is most likely a TR or CW alt, trying to get the GWF nerfed and thinks doing it this way is less 'obvious'. Either that or they really have no clue how to properly build and play a GF.

    GWFs are not OP and dont need a nerf. A tr and a cw can easily beat the living hell out of a GWF. If you cant, then it just means you suck and need to learn how to play your toon properly.
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