Why not join the 10.5k+ que then if your gear/feats allows you to?
The fact that your feats gives that advantage in gear score, means you are getting and advantage in your stats as well. ( refering to GF and GWF) so they are better be in the 10.5k que then.
I don't think a GF GS has anything to do with how effective they are in PvP even with skill aside, its really just their stat setup. GFs top at 14-15k and they're for the most part the same as a 12k TR or CW. A GF hits the 12k mark wearing PvP gear.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of dividing the gear into brackets. There's such a huge gap it make sense but unless they fix the way GS is calculated as well as enchants it would barley work out better. And far as going into 50-59 bracket your time is limited and you'll eventually have to roll another character re-slotting you Enchants, This alone seems like a good deterrent but who knows Ive seen idiots pay through the nose to feel big.
And as for the bots, a more active approach would be more effective and appreciated. Ive seen the same bots in PvP for over 2 weeks now. The Devs obviously aren't actively BANing any of them and looking for the cheapest rout possible.
In short I like the idea but it will require more than dividing brackets to function.
I don't think a GF GS has anything to do with how effective they are in PvP even with skill aside, its really just their stat setup. GFs top at 14-15k and they're for the most part the same as a 12k TR or CW. A GF hits the 12k mark wearing PvP gear.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of dividing the gear into brackets. There's such a huge gap it make sense but unless they fix the way GS is calculated as well as enchants it would barley work out better. And far as going into 50-59 bracket your time is limited and you'll eventually have to roll another character re-slotting you Enchants, This alone seems like a good deterrent but who knows Ive seen idiots pay through the nose to feel big.
And as for the bots, a more active approach would be more effective and appreciated. Ive seen the same bots in PvP for over 2 weeks now. The Devs obviously aren't actively BANing any of them and looking for the cheapest rout possible.
In short I like the idea but it will require more than dividing brackets to function.
I was ignorant about how the GS for GF and GWF actually works, thanks for sharing this.( i have updated the Original post with your suggestion)
I totally agree with you about that part. Perhaps my idea can work if they actually make the "GearScore" function only to what your "Gear" adds and not the feats. Just as you said.
About the bots: i think my idea will limit,if not eliminate, the bots we see in the lvl 60 PvP lately. However, you are right about that admins should take more active actions about that.
How about just adding a bracket for pvp-gear only or less (with no enchants allowed) to the regular BGs. You can save up for your enchants, better gear whatever while actually having some competitive/fun pvp.
How about just adding a bracket for pvp-gear only or less (with no enchants allowed) to the regular BGs. You can save up for your enchants, better gear whatever while actually having some competitive/fun pvp.
PvP gear only will give the perma stealth rogues superiority, as it will give them huge stealth meter..and as we cant use any enchants in this case, they will 3 shot anyone.
I like this idea. I am sure that it will need to be refined to some extent due to the different ways some classes have higher gearscores, but I think it is a great start. Yesterday my team was matched with some new level 60's who didn't manage to kill any of us, and that's just a bit ridiculous. It is one thing to be outplayed, but to be so badly crushed just because you weren't nearly geared for it isn't fun.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
good idea but game mechanics don't allow it yet, i have BIS gear + enchants and I reach 9.7k as GWF, anyone who has 12k+ is actually a very badly geared player.
If you disagree I invite you to dual and prove me wrong.
good idea but game mechanics don't allow it yet, i have BIS gear + enchants and I reach 9.7k as GWF, anyone who has 12k+ is actually a very badly geared player.
If you disagree I invite you to dual and prove me wrong.
No i don't disagree with you, i know that some concentrated blue items are better than purple ones and will eventually give you less gear score but more effectiveness.
Also Tenebrous doesn't give any additional states but are still one of the best enchantments. So your words make perfect sense.
However my idea is only a brain storming since i'm not 100% aware of all classes mechanics and feats.
So maybe someone more aware than me can add more refining to it and to make it possible.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
good idea but game mechanics don't allow it yet, i have BIS gear + enchants and I reach 9.7k as GWF, anyone who has 12k+ is actually a very badly geared player.
If you disagree I invite you to dual and prove me wrong.
Well, untrue if you're a GF, because their power stat is doubled if they take the top tree. My GF has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, and he's almost 12k.
Well, untrue if you're a GF, because their power stat is doubled if they take the top tree. My GF has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, and he's almost 12k.
How did that has anything to do with what I stated? what is "untrue" about what I said?
Bad idea. I have a really high gear score on my cleric. Queues are going to take forever to pop if this idea is accepted. No thank you. Should i dress like a hobo to enjoy acceptable queue times?
it would be very problematic with makin it GS dependant, because for example, the best gear for a GWF atm are 60% of ur gear blues and greens and some epic t1 weapon/offhand .. which leads to a lower GS, also GF feats which increases GS alot will cause GFs gear to be very unstable aswell
Bad idea. I have a really high gear score on my cleric. Queues are going to take forever to pop if this idea is accepted. No thank you. Should i dress like a hobo to enjoy acceptable queue times?
Why would it take forever? when you have high GS you have nothing to do that waiting for DD or doing PvP.
So i think the higher GS queues will be more crowded.
it would be very problematic with makin it GS dependant, because for example, the best gear for a GWF atm are 60% of ur gear blues and greens and some epic t1 weapon/offhand .. which leads to a lower GS, also GF feats which increases GS alot will cause GFs gear to be very unstable aswell
I've already suggested a solution for that in the OP. If they remove the amount of GS you get from some feats, and make the GS only showing what the gear itself ONLY gives, it will balance things up.
Update 2/7/2013 based on replies: GFs and GWFs have feats that allow them to get higher GS than other classes.
That will force them to queue up in high GS ques while they aren't properly geared for it.
Perhaps a fix to these feats that would make them not adding any additional score to the Gear Score, and make the Gear score only shows what your gear gives.
I think it would be an improvement to let new players to have their own pvp matches. It would make it more enjoyable for all because the gap at fresh 60 level and ancient 60 is too big, which makes people to post feedback that the entire pvp is unbalanced or a class is badly over powered.
But at certain point gs loses its importance, categorizing the higher levels. Instead make an open tournaments and closed for guilds. After all that I think is what most of the experienced players would want.
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
What if you have a "casual", "medium" and "hard PvP" where rewards are thereafter. If you get little glory and greens in "casual", that gives fresh lvl 60 time to get used to the very different pace from 59 PvP- while they can gather resources for better gear. There are always 12k+ people who joins, but the motivation will be less if you get double the glory in "medium" and perhaps triple in "hard". And perhaps add AD reward in medium and hard.
And perhaps, in addition, "casual experienced" for those who prefer playing for fun without necessarily wanting rewards. Perhaps a bit more laidback option if one needs a break from all the screaming children that roam PvP.
Something like that.
If it was unclear; everyone can choose any category they want.
What if you have a "casual", "medium" and "hard PvP" where rewards are thereafter.
Three tiers sound about right, it would be in line with the rest of the design (pre60, T1, T2).
I'm just not too sure of it's practicality. It would mean gear cannot be changed during the match and possible some Tiers will have very few players, meaning not so many matches.
But I really like the idea of similar (objective) gearscores being matched against one another.
Three tiers sound about right, it would be in line with the rest of the design (pre60, T1, T2).
I'm just not too sure of it's practicality. It would mean gear cannot be changed during the match and possible some Tiers will have very few players, meaning not so many matches.
But I really like the idea of similar (objective) gearscores being matched against one another.
Well what bracket would you be in if you had a mix of t1 and t2 items?
They'd have to fix:
- feats that give GS
- GS by armor and weapon enchants
- 4 piece setbonuses not giving GS
I like the idea, but if it'd be implemented without these problems fixed first, I'd have to get a 2nd gear for low GS, because I just wanted to max my power with my DC, so it has 12,6k GS (no RL money spent yet, just 2x2 T2, ancient weapons and rank 7 enchants), but doesn't have any armor or weapon enchants. By your GS margins, I'd be up against the rank 10 and perfect enchants people, which is quite the difference.
The only thing I see wrong with this, is that the 'best' gear with enchants for most classes brings their gearscore LOWER, it doesn't raise it. Take for example my TR, I have full battlefield skulker, nightwyrm bands, all that jazz, with greater tenebrous enchants. Care to guess my gearscore? It's in the range of 10k. So I'd still be rolling over scrubs that aren't geared properly, when my gear is miles ahead of theirs.
I think this is the same problem wow had in vanilla- pve gear is too good.
All the raiders always ate nonraiders faces b/c their gear was so much better than the gear pvpers got for pvping.
Similar thing is happening in this game now. Pvp gear is by farr the worse purple gear in the game and i think any people dont realize this fact. So they get upset when someone in t2 blows them up in 2 hits
The only thing I see wrong with this, is that the 'best' gear with enchants for most classes brings their gearscore LOWER, it doesn't raise it. Take for example my TR, I have full battlefield skulker, nightwyrm bands, all that jazz, with greater tenebrous enchants. Care to guess my gearscore? It's in the range of 10k. So I'd still be rolling over scrubs that aren't geared properly, when my gear is miles ahead of theirs.
That can be solved by making "ranked only" PvP or dividing the "PvP Queue GS categories" with more reasonable gaps.
I understand that some issues will remain unsolved, because most of the high PvP gearing actually gives you lower GS than 10k ( some get approximately 9k) because tenebrous enchants doesn't add anything to your GS as far as i know.
it would be very problematic with makin it GS dependant, because for example, the best gear for a GWF atm are 60% of ur gear blues and greens and some epic t1 weapon/offhand .. which leads to a lower GS, also GF feats which increases GS alot will cause GFs gear to be very unstable aswell
BIS gear for a gwf is not 60% blues and no greens... However the point of your post still holds water and this is a terrible idea with current mechanics.
Comments
I don't think a GF GS has anything to do with how effective they are in PvP even with skill aside, its really just their stat setup. GFs top at 14-15k and they're for the most part the same as a 12k TR or CW. A GF hits the 12k mark wearing PvP gear.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of dividing the gear into brackets. There's such a huge gap it make sense but unless they fix the way GS is calculated as well as enchants it would barley work out better. And far as going into 50-59 bracket your time is limited and you'll eventually have to roll another character re-slotting you Enchants, This alone seems like a good deterrent but who knows Ive seen idiots pay through the nose to feel big.
And as for the bots, a more active approach would be more effective and appreciated. Ive seen the same bots in PvP for over 2 weeks now. The Devs obviously aren't actively BANing any of them and looking for the cheapest rout possible.
In short I like the idea but it will require more than dividing brackets to function.
I was ignorant about how the GS for GF and GWF actually works, thanks for sharing this.( i have updated the Original post with your suggestion)
I totally agree with you about that part. Perhaps my idea can work if they actually make the "GearScore" function only to what your "Gear" adds and not the feats. Just as you said.
About the bots: i think my idea will limit,if not eliminate, the bots we see in the lvl 60 PvP lately. However, you are right about that admins should take more active actions about that.
PvP gear only will give the perma stealth rogues superiority, as it will give them huge stealth meter..and as we cant use any enchants in this case, they will 3 shot anyone.
Thank you for your correction.
I will correct the spelling of that word on the original post.
If you disagree I invite you to dual and prove me wrong.
No i don't disagree with you, i know that some concentrated blue items are better than purple ones and will eventually give you less gear score but more effectiveness.
Also Tenebrous doesn't give any additional states but are still one of the best enchantments. So your words make perfect sense.
However my idea is only a brain storming since i'm not 100% aware of all classes mechanics and feats.
So maybe someone more aware than me can add more refining to it and to make it possible.
Well, untrue if you're a GF, because their power stat is doubled if they take the top tree. My GF has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, and he's almost 12k.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
How did that has anything to do with what I stated? what is "untrue" about what I said?
I think he wanted to say that it is untrue that "game mechanics doesn't allow it" part.
Above 9k etc. high level gear score shouldn't be separated further by gear score itself. It would need some other standards like win ratio or similar.
I'm 9.7k for with my regeneration gwf, can't do higher unless I buy rank 8 enchantments, which makes no difference for the build.
Also people are not joining for PvP, they are joining for the daily quest and the glory they get, which is in my opinion the main problem.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?397791-Queue-groups-for-pvp-according-to-gear-score
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?400331-PvP-Feedback
I hope we can see some more changes/updates on the PvP content
Why would it take forever? when you have high GS you have nothing to do that waiting for DD or doing PvP.
So i think the higher GS queues will be more crowded.
I've already suggested a solution for that in the OP. If they remove the amount of GS you get from some feats, and make the GS only showing what the gear itself ONLY gives, it will balance things up.
But at certain point gs loses its importance, categorizing the higher levels. Instead make an open tournaments and closed for guilds. After all that I think is what most of the experienced players would want.
And perhaps, in addition, "casual experienced" for those who prefer playing for fun without necessarily wanting rewards. Perhaps a bit more laidback option if one needs a break from all the screaming children that roam PvP.
Something like that.
If it was unclear; everyone can choose any category they want.
Three tiers sound about right, it would be in line with the rest of the design (pre60, T1, T2).
I'm just not too sure of it's practicality. It would mean gear cannot be changed during the match and possible some Tiers will have very few players, meaning not so many matches.
But I really like the idea of similar (objective) gearscores being matched against one another.
Well what bracket would you be in if you had a mix of t1 and t2 items?
- feats that give GS
- GS by armor and weapon enchants
- 4 piece setbonuses not giving GS
I like the idea, but if it'd be implemented without these problems fixed first, I'd have to get a 2nd gear for low GS, because I just wanted to max my power with my DC, so it has 12,6k GS (no RL money spent yet, just 2x2 T2, ancient weapons and rank 7 enchants), but doesn't have any armor or weapon enchants. By your GS margins, I'd be up against the rank 10 and perfect enchants people, which is quite the difference.
Dungeons are tied to gearscore too, so that's not an issue.
All the raiders always ate nonraiders faces b/c their gear was so much better than the gear pvpers got for pvping.
Similar thing is happening in this game now. Pvp gear is by farr the worse purple gear in the game and i think any people dont realize this fact. So they get upset when someone in t2 blows them up in 2 hits
That can be solved by making "ranked only" PvP or dividing the "PvP Queue GS categories" with more reasonable gaps.
I understand that some issues will remain unsolved, because most of the high PvP gearing actually gives you lower GS than 10k ( some get approximately 9k) because tenebrous enchants doesn't add anything to your GS as far as i know.
But atleast we will get rid off the bots.
BIS gear for a gwf is not 60% blues and no greens... However the point of your post still holds water and this is a terrible idea with current mechanics.