As far as your stun lock comments. I guess you and I are on a different page. I don't care if a cw has 50 ways of avoiding cc's, or a GF has 200 different ways etc, the minute they actually do get locked(and they will), any good group can keep them lock 100% till death. So that point is null, we need diminishing returns. Also, I made the point to talk about a particular fight, because I had enough healing going, and was able to stay alive through many cc's and dailys, seemed a valid point to me. Yah, ss or it didn't happen, I get it
Your perspective on fighting clerics, is identical to mine fighting rogues. I don't fear rogues at all, ever. Sure I get one shot, by so does everyone else, that's not "skill".
Videos to come, and if your on Mindflayer, hit me up, we can pvp together and I'll show you first hand how a good cleric heals
I came from a game without diminishing returns. So I'm not really bothered by getting stunlocked to death (had ways to deal with CC though, but not a lot) because that's also their M.O. I feel the game only needs ways to break CC, not penalize them with diminishing returns. While it doesn't take skill to press 3 buttons in rotation, it does however take skill to time a CC break properly. The problem with talking about a specific PvP fight is that there are too many variables (gear and skill of all players involved in the fight), that's why it really isn't grounds to convince people with. I'm more inclined to believe if you said you survived against 5 Ustilligators in Epic Dreadvault since the only variable would be your gear and skill.
It's the general rule of engagement for rogues fighting clerics (or any class for that matter). I don't have a TR but I've been in many matches with them (like you of course), that's why I know how they operate, both the good ones and the bad.
I'd love to PvP with you but I'm on Dragon, but I do love the enthusiasm you show for your build, that's why people are asking questions, and creating all this hulabaloo.
Also, Linked Spirit ups my stats even fighting 1 vs 1, only a tool feated with Linked Spirit, would chose "not" to use it in PvP, or 1 vs 1.
It does up your stats 1v1, and of course if you're feated with it you're bound to use it. But it doesn't change the fact it isn't that effective in PvP (specially 1v1) though. My point is that the bonuses are miniscule (5%, 15% if your organized enough). Will it make a difference? Of course. Will it make a big one? It won't. Gauntlgrym however is a much more different beast.
I came from a game without diminishing returns. So I'm not really bothered by getting stunlocked to death (had ways to deal with CC though, but not a lot) because that's also their M.O. I feel the game only needs ways to break CC, not penalize them with diminishing returns. While it doesn't take skill to press 3 buttons in rotation, it does however take skill to time a CC break properly. The problem with talking about a specific PvP fight is that there are too many variables (gear and skill of all players involved in the fight), that's why it really isn't grounds to convince people with. I'm more inclined to believe if you said you survived against 5 Ustilligators in Epic Dreadvault since the only variable would be your gear and skill.
It's the general rule of engagement for rogues fighting clerics (or any class for that matter). I don't have a TR but I've been in many matches with them (like you of course), that's why I know how they operate, both the good ones and the bad.
I'd love to PvP with you but I'm on Dragon, but I do love the enthusiasm you show for your build, that's why people are asking questions, and creating all this hulabaloo.
It does up your stats 1v1, and of course if you're feated with it you're bound to use it. But it doesn't change the fact it isn't that effective in PvP (specially 1v1) though. My point is that the bonuses are miniscule (5%, 15% if your organized enough). Will it make a difference? Of course. Will it make a big one? It won't. Gauntlgrym however is a much more different beast.
You and I are on the exact same page bud, and I do love this build, others are starting to find the success in it as well. I work in the oil field so very busy, but I am most definitely going to download fraps when I get home and start making some movies. I don't want to "brag", because I have nothing to brag about, but I am anxious to show people just how powerful the cleric class actually can be.
Far as linked spirit, its second nature now to me always swapping into Divine Mode, so I don't even think about it, I do it reguardless
Servers one day will be merged, then if were both still around we'll be able to kick some *** together
How do you handle healing word's "charges" mechanic? Seems to me that after one or two rotations you're looking at a gimpy skill that doesn't respond to recovery and that takes a year and a half to become useable (more than once) again.
And both healing word and soothing light give backheals, and are affected by righteousness, so casting them on yourself seems counterproductive when you could cast them on literally anyone else and get more benefit (same heal for you, but also heals a teammate). Unless the backheal is considerably smaller than the direct heal when "cast on self" (minus righteousness)? I honestly don't know. The last time I used healing word was probably level 30, and the only time soothing light gets used is when the server is convinced I didn't tab out of divinity.
Also, how much is your miracle healer's set contributing?
How do you handle healing word's "charges" mechanic? Seems to me that after one or two rotations you're looking at a gimpy skill that doesn't respond to recovery and that takes a year and a half to become useable (more than once) again.
And both healing word and soothing light give backheals, and are affected by righteousness, so casting them on yourself seems counterproductive when you could cast them on literally anyone else and get more benefit (same heal for you, but also heals a teammate). Unless the backheal is considerably smaller than the direct heal when "cast on self" (minus righteousness)? I honestly don't know. The last time I used healing word was probably level 30, and the only time soothing light gets used is when the server is convinced I didn't tab out of divinity.
Also, how much is your miracle healer's set contributing?
So on a clean Healing Word, you have 3 charges. Each cast, has about 1 second cool down, if you use it right away, as in 3 in a row, the last cast will stop at 10 seconds and not be available to cast again for 10 seconds, when it pops, it will start at 15 seconds, and count down again to zero. If you wait, it will be a total of 40 seconds, before you can use it again, 3 times in a row. Or, if you are using it constantly, after your 3 in a row the second it pops, you will have to wait 15 seconds each time to use. Does this make sense?
However, Healing Word in Divine Mode only has a 3 second cool-down, but costs 1 total pip to cast, for me @3658recovery 33.6%recharge speed. Also, Casting healing word in divine mode, does "not" consume a charge, of your "3 total charges". So technically, you can go back and fourth, and less the cool-down of being able to cast Healing Word-normal mode, more then once in a row.
As far as Healing Word just casting on yourself, it still heals, it can still crit, and it still gives regen, so its silly "not" to use it, when in 1 vs 1. Of course during actual group fights, I always cast it on another person, even if they are at full health, not really sure if the heals are more to myself because of it? I do it none the less.
Soothing Light can not be casted on just yourself, has to be a team member, with less then 100% health. If it were different, this would build would make us even more powerful, as the heals are tremendous from it. If are using this build, and NOT using Soothing Light, you are not ever going to get the most out of this build.
With 20,989 health, my 4/4 set gives out a 1069 point heal.
So if MH procs for every HW cast (or even every other) then that might be a substantial source of healing, given you're spamming it. HW is probably the only encounter that CAN be spammed in any real sense, particularly if you flip between D and non-D.
Also, as far as I'm aware, soothing can totally be cast on yourself. I did it a lot when I was a wee tiny healer running away from stuff. It's just (in my experience) a rubbish heal, and a huge drain on divinity. Even now it's been changed to a HoT, I can pop a D'd AS and kite around in it and heal far, far more over the duration (while benefiting from a spiffy damage reduction), than I can goobering about firing a pip's worth of soothing light into my eyes. Plus the latter stops me doing anything else other than moving.
How much health do you get per tick?
Also, this is genuine interest, not LOL U LIE interest, it's just...I have never, ever found soothing light to be worth using even by accident. So for you to say it's tremendous makes me wonder where exactly the difference lies. It can't be gear, since that would scale all heals, not just SL, so it must be particular combinations of feats.
Cleric in pvp are totally great, if youre getting ganked and killed in pvp, that means your team is using you as a meat shield and is not doing they're job properly . You might want to avoid clashes, after all you are a ranged class and not a tank.
So if MH procs for every HW cast (or even every other) then that might be a substantial source of healing, given you're spamming it. HW is probably the only encounter that CAN be spammed in any real sense, particularly if you flip between D and non-D.
Also, as far as I'm aware, soothing can totally be cast on yourself. I did it a lot when I was a wee tiny healer running away from stuff. It's just (in my experience) a rubbish heal, and a huge drain on divinity. Even now it's been changed to a HoT, I can pop a D'd AS and kite around in it and heal far, far more over the duration (while benefiting from a spiffy damage reduction), than I can goobering about firing a pip's worth of soothing light into my eyes. Plus the latter stops me doing anything else other than moving.
How much health do you get per tick?
Also, this is genuine interest, not LOL U LIE interest, it's just...I have never, ever found soothing light to be worth using even by accident. So for you to say it's tremendous makes me wonder where exactly the difference lies. It can't be gear, since that would scale all heals, not just SL, so it must be particular combinations of feats.
Soothing Light definitely can "not" be cast on yourself, has to be a member lower then 100% life. Unless my cleric for whatever reason is perma bugged , I sure as hell wish I could use it on myself. I'll do some testing, but if I remember right, my heals with Soothing are Light are very fast 7-900 heals, with 2-3k crits, it seems if I crit on the first Soothing Light, it will crit quite often in a row. Also, the reason behind using Soothing Light, other then just the straight heal to yourself and party member, is now that particular party member, is running at a 23% healing bonus from you, because of Enduring Relief. Now because that particular person has the full 23% healing bonus, then next heal you cast on him, whether it be divine mode HW, normal, or Soothing Light, is going to heal "you" for more as well, because the heals will be that much higher.
Cleric in pvp are totally great, if youre getting ganked and killed in pvp, that means your team is using you as a meat shield and is not doing they're job properly . You might want to avoid clashes, after all you are a ranged class and not a tank.
Not sure which thread you've read, but I'm definitely an advocate for the CLeric in this game, I have no problems being ganked, quite the opposite
Huh. I could swear I've used soothing light on myself on multiple occasions, and always been annoyed by it (coz it drains divinity, gives <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> heal). Wish I was at my 'pooter so I could test.
What race is better for Cleric: Half-Elf, Human or Dwarf?
I'd go tiefling or human ... clerics need defense and both of these help that quite a bit. I however play as elf created at the most slenderest of settings cause I've suffered with eating disorders and can't visually handle weighing more than I have to... though I'm sure that 1% extra gold find that half-elves get is really going to make a difference, lol.
I run with a human, but I've tried half-elf before too, I don't see much of a difference.
Also, how is bastion as a pvp heal? (yea, never cast it yellow, that's an easy way to get killed.)
Last Q: pvp gear for cleric is chock full of life steal. Is it worth it in pvp? You end up with paper def if you do.
if you get your life steal way up you might have around a 7.5% life steal... this means if you can fully defeat 13.33 characters in PvP you should fill up your life bar one time (you can't tell me that doesn't come in handy, lol, everyone knows us clerics go around getting hundreds of in match PvP kills)
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sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited June 2013
Diminishing returns pretty much force you to make a clone of every other cleric out there. Gear is same thing besides 4 piece bonuses there is nothing much different about it and if one piece has a little less critical and a little more recovery what does it matter in end you reach soft caps with both of them with enchants and gloss over any differences. There is no way for someone to sacrifice lets say critical totally and make way better defense, game mechanics just don't let you do it.
So we got a lot of supposed customization, but are always proded towards same end result.
I run with a human, but I've tried half-elf before too, I don't see much of a difference.
Also, how is bastion as a pvp heal? (yea, never cast it yellow, that's an easy way to get killed.)
Last Q: pvp gear for cleric is chock full of life steal. Is it worth it in pvp? You end up with paper def if you do.
I prefer half elf for the racial bonuses to stats. The 3 extra feat points for human can be nice but since they're only good for Heroic feats that kind sucks, because you pretty much haver enough points to take all the heroic feats of any value.
Bastion is terrible in PVP, between control effects and just simply having to move more it's harder to generate DP, therefore making it harder to continuously use encounters in divine mode. Bastion is complete <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if not cast in divine mode and has a huge CD making it doubly usless in PVP. But if you like well run it I guess.
If I had the gaunt gear I'd run a dot build for pvp with that life steal. But in regards to the t1 pvp gear it's not worth it simply because it can't compare to the t2 gear you can get an use, more AC, more defense, etc. 4 Piece Miracle healer's set is great for pvp > t1 pvp gear
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Not sure which thread you've read, but I'm definitely an advocate for the CLeric in this game, I have no problems being ganked, quite the opposite
Ok, I spent my free respec and respecced to your spec munkey81. I had to spend a while trying to dig back through your history to find it. You are right that your spec gives more healing, and more surviveability. It is even more fun in pvp, although that's a pretty low bar over what my previous spec was doing. With that being said I still dislike the lack of utility now. I used to be able to dot the hell out of people, and rack up kills using nukes 1v1 a good percentage of the time. Now if it is 1 on 1 I can rarely win unless I can build up a daily to bomb them, although people do have a pain of a time killing me with all the healing going on.
I do owe you an apology though, your spec does actually increase survive ability and in general is a spec that makes the cleric non-worthless, so I shouldn't have called BS (although it would have helped had you linked it). The measurement of whether it is a fun spec will be left to the user. If someone wants to run as a 100 percent healer with low killing power, and low utility value it's a spec that can be used to keep groups alive in dungeons or pvp, at least if you have a high gear score, and for the most part makes having a cleric in pvp not a waste of space. I'm not sure how well the build would fare without T2 gear so I can't speak to that. This build is very similar to what I ended up with a while back when I dinged 60 originally, but I re-specc'd to one that could do more damage, now it looks like going back is one of the only real options.
EDIT: Might as well add, this is a spec for someone that is a really good player. Trying to target players past other players in this game, and LOS issues are a pita sometimes. In pvp you better know how to listen for the beginning of a rogue move and slide your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a hurry. The healing is good against the knockdowns since you don't have to worry so much about getting thrown out of the circle, but spike damage is spike damage. Also you need to be putting seal on anything and everyone to really see the power of this build. Also in PVE you are going to find yourself stuck in casting animations more, so be very aware of circles and again move your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I prefer half elf for the racial bonuses to stats. The 3 extra feat points for human can be nice but since they're only good for Heroic feats that kind sucks, because you pretty much haver enough points to take all the heroic feats of any value.
Bastion is terrible in PVP, between control effects and just simply having to move more it's harder to generate DP, therefore making it harder to continuously use encounters in divine mode. Bastion is complete <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if not cast in divine mode and has a huge CD making it doubly usless in PVP. But if you like well run it I guess.
If I had the gaunt gear I'd run a dot build for pvp with that life steal. But in regards to the t1 pvp gear it's not worth it simply because it can't compare to the t2 gear you can get an use, more AC, more defense, etc. 4 Piece Miracle healer's set is great for pvp > t1 pvp gear
defense bonus on human is still nice, I'd still be tempted to go with tiefling for their bonuses but I'm elf,
at a gear score of 10,700 I'm finishing first on my team quite often, sometimes winning blues, sometimes coming in 1st of all scoring... yesterday I stole a victory away from the other side by taking their node away from a GWF that was protecting it, my cleric killed him twice back to back 1v1 before time ran out (okay I did run out of health both times, but had enough not to die, still won, still came in first, still got a blue, and ended out with 10 kills and 2 deaths 29 assists, so a very good game for a cleric... and lots of fun)
Giving some credit to munkeys Spec as well, I tried - on a hunch - what I knew from other games. Called "Hot and Dot". Actually, with Healing Word that powerful, you can really wreck havoc with ASeal/Brand of the Sun - Forgemasters (the Dot alone) - Break the Spirit (nice if in Divinity for the stun). Might have been mentioned before... just wanted to tell: still works wonders.
Currently I run with Divine Fortune/Foresight, although I am not sure if HW even triggers Foresight. At first I missed SB and Astral Shield. But since you can just run around as you like and watch your enemies burn... well, what do you need SB for. Besides AS just attracts flies.... the bad ones with big blades and smelling like orc.
Sad, that i cannot use Linked Spirit this way, but meh...
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I believe hw does trigger foresight. I tend to cast it on people if I even think they are going into damage.
I do that too. I even demount before I get to the base to do that. Coming in third or even fourth I am still the first one to die if I dont keep my distance and prance around like a squirrel on acid. Sometimes I feel as if every other class get clerics highlighted in pvp or something.
I noticed a few things: there are many players that simply burn before me. But the instant a player knows what he does and doesnt just leftclick me... It is starting to get painful. No, I can't do anything. Even running and healing doesnt help. The other day a Tank actually ran after me when I left the freshly tapped base again, chased me to the middle of the map (he had a faster mount), killed me and then went back to tap. That happens alot. Period.
I do that too. I even demount before I get to the base to do that. Coming in third or even fourth I am still the first one to die if I dont keep my distance and prance around like a squirrel on acid. Sometimes I feel as if every other class get clerics highlighted in pvp or something.
I noticed a few things: there are many players that simply burn before me. But the instant a player knows what he does and doesnt just leftclick me... It is starting to get painful. No, I can't do anything. Even running and healing doesnt help. The other day a Tank actually ran after me when I left the freshly tapped base again, chased me to the middle of the map (he had a faster mount), killed me and then went back to tap. That happens alot. Period.
some days are really bad, such as this night, everyone was one and two hitting me no matter how many restarts I made, I'm not uber built and shouldn't be paired up against those that are.
have you noticed how cleric are the only class without any survivability skills? There is nothing we can pop up to save ourselves. One could say CW doesn't either but CW has a lot of cc powers to defend himself. Other classes have some cc's too while cleric has 1 daily that does prone ( and too low damage and heal to use it anyway). I believe that this and hidden 0,5 sec cast time ( you gotta <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> before casting.. ALWAYS) make it that cleric get roflstomped.
Soothing Light definitely can "not" be cast on yourself, has to be a member lower then 100% life. Unless my cleric for whatever reason is perma bugged , I sure as hell wish I could use it on myself.
Ok, finally got around to testing this (jumping off cliffs, soothing light to recover) = yes, I can definitely use it on myself. Animation of holding up the symbol, blue/green beam direct into my eyes, rubbish heal and egregious divinity drain, but definitely self-healing.
Ok, I spent my free respec and respecced to your spec munkey81. I had to spend a while trying to dig back through your history to find it. You are right that your spec gives more healing, and more surviveability. It is even more fun in pvp, although that's a pretty low bar over what my previous spec was doing. With that being said I still dislike the lack of utility now. I used to be able to dot the hell out of people, and rack up kills using nukes 1v1 a good percentage of the time. Now if it is 1 on 1 I can rarely win unless I can build up a daily to bomb them, although people do have a pain of a time killing me with all the healing going on.
I do owe you an apology though, your spec does actually increase survive ability and in general is a spec that makes the cleric non-worthless, so I shouldn't have called BS (although it would have helped had you linked it). The measurement of whether it is a fun spec will be left to the user. If someone wants to run as a 100 percent healer with low killing power, and low utility value it's a spec that can be used to keep groups alive in dungeons or pvp, at least if you have a high gear score, and for the most part makes having a cleric in pvp not a waste of space. I'm not sure how well the build would fare without T2 gear so I can't speak to that. This build is very similar to what I ended up with a while back when I dinged 60 originally, but I re-specc'd to one that could do more damage, now it looks like going back is one of the only real options.
EDIT: Might as well add, this is a spec for someone that is a really good player. Trying to target players past other players in this game, and LOS issues are a pita sometimes. In pvp you better know how to listen for the beginning of a rogue move and slide your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a hurry. The healing is good against the knockdowns since you don't have to worry so much about getting thrown out of the circle, but spike damage is spike damage. Also you need to be putting seal on anything and everyone to really see the power of this build. Also in PVE you are going to find yourself stuck in casting animations more, so be very aware of circles and again move your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I'm glad you are enjoying the build man, i still have yet to change anything, other then now i am using the miracle healers 4/4 set. I lost 570 power but the heals are making up for it thus far.
Obviously this build is mainly a healing build, but I am still doing a very good amount of dmg. My sacred flame hits are 1-7k, and my sunburst are always good for 3.5k, upwards to 7k as well. So fighting anyone 1 vs 1, the dps is definately there. I've definately killed some "bad" players in a fiew seconds, but a good player it will of course not be as fast. I definately do not agree with saying it has low killing power, and low utility.
I'm honestly not sure if the build is gear dependant, I have nothing to base any opinions on, I gathered my T2 quite quickly. I think I was only under a 10k gear score when I hit 60, for a day or two.
I do agree, that to really get the best out of this build, the player needs to have some pretty decent skill. As we all know the cleric class is not an easy class to play, and this build is not a faceroll keyboard build. The rotations are there, the build is good, the burst heals are excellent....if played correctly. Everything of course is fight dependant, and a player knowing other class's abilities in pvp, or atleast the animations, is only going to help them more. Which can obviously be said about anyone playing in a PvP setting.
As far as rogues, I honestly dont have a single problem with a rogue 1 vs 1, 2 good rogues can stun lock, and well...not much you can do there when you are 100% locked, that has nothing to do with the class being bad, or the rogues having "skill". The only real problem for me right now honestly is a very good GF. 1 vs 1 I generally dont have a problem fighting any class, unless I am one shot, or someone gets some very high crits in there rotation, I can usually heal through everything. This perma stealth rogue build everyone is talking about especially, I have yet to be killed by a rogue 1 vs 1, using it.
I think the main problems with people playing clerics in this game, is they are stuck on how "Clerics" were in other games. Still tons of complaints about the cleric class, but there are many many of us out there, who are near impossible to kill without being one-shot or stun locked 100%. So the ability to be viable with the DC class is absolutely there. It is just dependant on the player. As far as the gear is concerned, I do not have even remotely BiS stuff. I am still using rank 5, and rank 6 enchants, and lesser weapon/armor enchants, and I am doing very well with it. So I firmly believe everyone else has a chance to be doing the same as I. I have no advantage of gear, over anyone.
If the warlock class ever comes out, that might be the only class I actually spend some $$ on to get perfects. Unless of course they totally ruin the class, fingers crossed!
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
We do have things, but it's not like clicky escape. You get 2 slides, choose wisely. Heals do increase surviveability, load up hammers as your second daily and use that as an escape hatch (throw healing word, then hammers). Divine armor makes for a nice shield to damage.
I will agree that our surviveability can be rough, but that is more because we are the first focused target of good players, and it's been like that in pvp in every game I have ever played for clerics.
I did a full page of just sunburst, and sacred flame. I feel this damage is more then enough needed, when the build I am using has such high heals. I am not upset by any means of the damage I am doing, and I do not feel the dmg is "bad".
Comments
I came from a game without diminishing returns. So I'm not really bothered by getting stunlocked to death (had ways to deal with CC though, but not a lot) because that's also their M.O. I feel the game only needs ways to break CC, not penalize them with diminishing returns. While it doesn't take skill to press 3 buttons in rotation, it does however take skill to time a CC break properly. The problem with talking about a specific PvP fight is that there are too many variables (gear and skill of all players involved in the fight), that's why it really isn't grounds to convince people with. I'm more inclined to believe if you said you survived against 5 Ustilligators in Epic Dreadvault since the only variable would be your gear and skill.
It's the general rule of engagement for rogues fighting clerics (or any class for that matter). I don't have a TR but I've been in many matches with them (like you of course), that's why I know how they operate, both the good ones and the bad.
I'd love to PvP with you but I'm on Dragon, but I do love the enthusiasm you show for your build, that's why people are asking questions, and creating all this hulabaloo.
It does up your stats 1v1, and of course if you're feated with it you're bound to use it. But it doesn't change the fact it isn't that effective in PvP (specially 1v1) though. My point is that the bonuses are miniscule (5%, 15% if your organized enough). Will it make a difference? Of course. Will it make a big one? It won't. Gauntlgrym however is a much more different beast.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
You and I are on the exact same page bud, and I do love this build, others are starting to find the success in it as well. I work in the oil field so very busy, but I am most definitely going to download fraps when I get home and start making some movies. I don't want to "brag", because I have nothing to brag about, but I am anxious to show people just how powerful the cleric class actually can be.
Far as linked spirit, its second nature now to me always swapping into Divine Mode, so I don't even think about it, I do it reguardless
Servers one day will be merged, then if were both still around we'll be able to kick some *** together
Cheers
Barabus The Gray
Mindflayer
And both healing word and soothing light give backheals, and are affected by righteousness, so casting them on yourself seems counterproductive when you could cast them on literally anyone else and get more benefit (same heal for you, but also heals a teammate). Unless the backheal is considerably smaller than the direct heal when "cast on self" (minus righteousness)? I honestly don't know. The last time I used healing word was probably level 30, and the only time soothing light gets used is when the server is convinced I didn't tab out of divinity.
Also, how much is your miracle healer's set contributing?
So on a clean Healing Word, you have 3 charges. Each cast, has about 1 second cool down, if you use it right away, as in 3 in a row, the last cast will stop at 10 seconds and not be available to cast again for 10 seconds, when it pops, it will start at 15 seconds, and count down again to zero. If you wait, it will be a total of 40 seconds, before you can use it again, 3 times in a row. Or, if you are using it constantly, after your 3 in a row the second it pops, you will have to wait 15 seconds each time to use. Does this make sense?
However, Healing Word in Divine Mode only has a 3 second cool-down, but costs 1 total pip to cast, for me @3658recovery 33.6%recharge speed. Also, Casting healing word in divine mode, does "not" consume a charge, of your "3 total charges". So technically, you can go back and fourth, and less the cool-down of being able to cast Healing Word-normal mode, more then once in a row.
As far as Healing Word just casting on yourself, it still heals, it can still crit, and it still gives regen, so its silly "not" to use it, when in 1 vs 1. Of course during actual group fights, I always cast it on another person, even if they are at full health, not really sure if the heals are more to myself because of it? I do it none the less.
Soothing Light can not be casted on just yourself, has to be a team member, with less then 100% health. If it were different, this would build would make us even more powerful, as the heals are tremendous from it. If are using this build, and NOT using Soothing Light, you are not ever going to get the most out of this build.
With 20,989 health, my 4/4 set gives out a 1069 point heal.
Also, as far as I'm aware, soothing can totally be cast on yourself. I did it a lot when I was a wee tiny healer running away from stuff. It's just (in my experience) a rubbish heal, and a huge drain on divinity. Even now it's been changed to a HoT, I can pop a D'd AS and kite around in it and heal far, far more over the duration (while benefiting from a spiffy damage reduction), than I can goobering about firing a pip's worth of soothing light into my eyes. Plus the latter stops me doing anything else other than moving.
How much health do you get per tick?
Also, this is genuine interest, not LOL U LIE interest, it's just...I have never, ever found soothing light to be worth using even by accident. So for you to say it's tremendous makes me wonder where exactly the difference lies. It can't be gear, since that would scale all heals, not just SL, so it must be particular combinations of feats.
Cleric in pvp are totally great, if youre getting ganked and killed in pvp, that means your team is using you as a meat shield and is not doing they're job properly
Soothing Light definitely can "not" be cast on yourself, has to be a member lower then 100% life. Unless my cleric for whatever reason is perma bugged
Not sure which thread you've read, but I'm definitely an advocate for the CLeric in this game, I have no problems being ganked, quite the opposite
Also, how is bastion as a pvp heal? (yea, never cast it yellow, that's an easy way to get killed.)
Last Q: pvp gear for cleric is chock full of life steal. Is it worth it in pvp? You end up with paper def if you do.
I'd go tiefling or human ... clerics need defense and both of these help that quite a bit. I however play as elf created at the most slenderest of settings cause I've suffered with eating disorders and can't visually handle weighing more than I have to... though I'm sure that 1% extra gold find that half-elves get is really going to make a difference, lol.
if you get your life steal way up you might have around a 7.5% life steal... this means if you can fully defeat 13.33 characters in PvP you should fill up your life bar one time (you can't tell me that doesn't come in handy, lol, everyone knows us clerics go around getting hundreds of in match PvP kills)
So we got a lot of supposed customization, but are always proded towards same end result.
When you talk about Soothing Light, wich power are you refering to? I can't find soothing light in my skill tree...
The "hold down left mouse button when in divinity" is punishing light, a direct channelled damage beam (that is also pretty terrible).
I never use them, I'll go with lance of faith, lol.
I prefer half elf for the racial bonuses to stats. The 3 extra feat points for human can be nice but since they're only good for Heroic feats that kind sucks, because you pretty much haver enough points to take all the heroic feats of any value.
Bastion is terrible in PVP, between control effects and just simply having to move more it's harder to generate DP, therefore making it harder to continuously use encounters in divine mode. Bastion is complete <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if not cast in divine mode and has a huge CD making it doubly usless in PVP. But if you like well run it I guess.
If I had the gaunt gear I'd run a dot build for pvp with that life steal. But in regards to the t1 pvp gear it's not worth it simply because it can't compare to the t2 gear you can get an use, more AC, more defense, etc. 4 Piece Miracle healer's set is great for pvp > t1 pvp gear
Ok, I spent my free respec and respecced to your spec munkey81. I had to spend a while trying to dig back through your history to find it. You are right that your spec gives more healing, and more surviveability. It is even more fun in pvp, although that's a pretty low bar over what my previous spec was doing. With that being said I still dislike the lack of utility now. I used to be able to dot the hell out of people, and rack up kills using nukes 1v1 a good percentage of the time. Now if it is 1 on 1 I can rarely win unless I can build up a daily to bomb them, although people do have a pain of a time killing me with all the healing going on.
I do owe you an apology though, your spec does actually increase survive ability and in general is a spec that makes the cleric non-worthless, so I shouldn't have called BS (although it would have helped had you linked it). The measurement of whether it is a fun spec will be left to the user. If someone wants to run as a 100 percent healer with low killing power, and low utility value it's a spec that can be used to keep groups alive in dungeons or pvp, at least if you have a high gear score, and for the most part makes having a cleric in pvp not a waste of space. I'm not sure how well the build would fare without T2 gear so I can't speak to that. This build is very similar to what I ended up with a while back when I dinged 60 originally, but I re-specc'd to one that could do more damage, now it looks like going back is one of the only real options.
EDIT: Might as well add, this is a spec for someone that is a really good player. Trying to target players past other players in this game, and LOS issues are a pita sometimes. In pvp you better know how to listen for the beginning of a rogue move and slide your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a hurry. The healing is good against the knockdowns since you don't have to worry so much about getting thrown out of the circle, but spike damage is spike damage. Also you need to be putting seal on anything and everyone to really see the power of this build. Also in PVE you are going to find yourself stuck in casting animations more, so be very aware of circles and again move your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
defense bonus on human is still nice, I'd still be tempted to go with tiefling for their bonuses but I'm elf,
at a gear score of 10,700 I'm finishing first on my team quite often, sometimes winning blues, sometimes coming in 1st of all scoring... yesterday I stole a victory away from the other side by taking their node away from a GWF that was protecting it, my cleric killed him twice back to back 1v1 before time ran out (okay I did run out of health both times, but had enough not to die, still won, still came in first, still got a blue, and ended out with 10 kills and 2 deaths 29 assists, so a very good game for a cleric... and lots of fun)
Currently I run with Divine Fortune/Foresight, although I am not sure if HW even triggers Foresight. At first I missed SB and Astral Shield. But since you can just run around as you like and watch your enemies burn... well, what do you need SB for. Besides AS just attracts flies.... the bad ones with big blades and smelling like orc.
Sad, that i cannot use Linked Spirit this way, but meh...
I noticed a few things: there are many players that simply burn before me. But the instant a player knows what he does and doesnt just leftclick me... It is starting to get painful. No, I can't do anything. Even running and healing doesnt help. The other day a Tank actually ran after me when I left the freshly tapped base again, chased me to the middle of the map (he had a faster mount), killed me and then went back to tap. That happens alot. Period.
some days are really bad, such as this night, everyone was one and two hitting me no matter how many restarts I made, I'm not uber built and shouldn't be paired up against those that are.
Ok, finally got around to testing this (jumping off cliffs, soothing light to recover) = yes, I can definitely use it on myself. Animation of holding up the symbol, blue/green beam direct into my eyes, rubbish heal and egregious divinity drain, but definitely self-healing.
So either I'm bugged or you are.
I'm glad you are enjoying the build man, i still have yet to change anything, other then now i am using the miracle healers 4/4 set. I lost 570 power but the heals are making up for it thus far.
Obviously this build is mainly a healing build, but I am still doing a very good amount of dmg. My sacred flame hits are 1-7k, and my sunburst are always good for 3.5k, upwards to 7k as well. So fighting anyone 1 vs 1, the dps is definately there. I've definately killed some "bad" players in a fiew seconds, but a good player it will of course not be as fast. I definately do not agree with saying it has low killing power, and low utility.
I'm honestly not sure if the build is gear dependant, I have nothing to base any opinions on, I gathered my T2 quite quickly. I think I was only under a 10k gear score when I hit 60, for a day or two.
I do agree, that to really get the best out of this build, the player needs to have some pretty decent skill. As we all know the cleric class is not an easy class to play, and this build is not a faceroll keyboard build. The rotations are there, the build is good, the burst heals are excellent....if played correctly. Everything of course is fight dependant, and a player knowing other class's abilities in pvp, or atleast the animations, is only going to help them more. Which can obviously be said about anyone playing in a PvP setting.
As far as rogues, I honestly dont have a single problem with a rogue 1 vs 1, 2 good rogues can stun lock, and well...not much you can do there when you are 100% locked, that has nothing to do with the class being bad, or the rogues having "skill". The only real problem for me right now honestly is a very good GF. 1 vs 1 I generally dont have a problem fighting any class, unless I am one shot, or someone gets some very high crits in there rotation, I can usually heal through everything. This perma stealth rogue build everyone is talking about especially, I have yet to be killed by a rogue 1 vs 1, using it.
I think the main problems with people playing clerics in this game, is they are stuck on how "Clerics" were in other games. Still tons of complaints about the cleric class, but there are many many of us out there, who are near impossible to kill without being one-shot or stun locked 100%. So the ability to be viable with the DC class is absolutely there. It is just dependant on the player. As far as the gear is concerned, I do not have even remotely BiS stuff. I am still using rank 5, and rank 6 enchants, and lesser weapon/armor enchants, and I am doing very well with it. So I firmly believe everyone else has a chance to be doing the same as I. I have no advantage of gear, over anyone.
If the warlock class ever comes out, that might be the only class I actually spend some $$ on to get perfects. Unless of course they totally ruin the class, fingers crossed!
I will agree that our surviveability can be rough, but that is more because we are the first focused target of good players, and it's been like that in pvp in every game I have ever played for clerics.