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Clerics in PVP....
desaak
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Are we just free kills now? As a level 60 cleric GS at about 9k, I am being 1 shot'ed by other classes. Are we viable in pvp at all or should I just stay away from pvp as a cleric?
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At the moment, my opinion (as lvl 60 10k DC) is we are NOT viable in PvP.
I will not spam the thread repeating messages, but You can check my opinions about that in the other threads:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?360621-PvP-has-become-a-laughable-spectacle&p=4686712&viewfull=1#post4686712
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?370111-Most-quot-Overpowered-quot-class-in-PvP&p=4684662&viewfull=1#post4684662
i run to my friends, i made my AS and hallowed ground an then i was dead and didnt even get assist points. so i decide to quit this game, but a friend told me to stay and to make a dps build.
and before i quit i tried a dps build. so i made a respec, use another skills and buy new gear for pvp. now i have only 1400 defense, but the game makes more fun then before. the first 2-3 matches i was like idiot who was going perma down, because with my old build i try to tank as many ppl on the spots as i can.
i need to try a complete other playstyle and after 5-6 matches and several skills i found my new build and it makes soooo many fun. i am now in almost every match place 1 or 2 with the most kills. this was today with a random party:
when i have my guildmates in the team, it makes much more fun.
i always liked to play healer in mmos, but in neverwinter they are just useless.
Rogues... rogues... rogues!
As to Clerics and PvP... it all depends on the Cleric's build and their opponent's PvP knowledge. A properly spec'd, and well geared, Cleric can be fun in PvP but no matter how good a Cleric is... they'll always be the NUMBER ONE PvP target (as well they should be) when up against experienced PvP opponents.
*note: just kidding.
Sooth is working for me in PvP. The more points you put into it the more it changes the colour of your team indicator. With Sooth maxed out I can run around with the enemy team and they just think I'm one of them and leave me alone.
There was coke in my mouth, then my nose, now on desk.
You suck.
Man...Best Class Feature for PvP Ever! Like the coke spewing poster, I loved this comment.
I have played a Cleric/Priest/Healer Class in many MMO's, Shadowform in WoW was pretty good pvp for Priests.
I have a radical idea. What if Sun Burst in Divine Mode, which has knockback, causes bodily injury to your pvp opponent (like you receive from dying). Then Cleanse (Feat ability) cures bodily injuries on yourself and team members. So if the other team does not have a DC, then they will constantly be receiving bodily injury build-ups or using injury kits constantly which will be very expensive.
That would be extremly OP. Part of the point of PVP is no injury kits or repurcussions for dying outside the obvious implications of being dead during a pvp match. 2x injury on legs and they can barley run, or 2x on head and their CD's are 10s longer...
Anyways pvp isn't bad as a cleric, we're just not a solo class. Or at least I try to avoid having to solo because I'm slow at killing and it's more effective to support/heal/buff/debuff party members.
Also in regards to people saying that you can't run pve setup in pvp that's totally not true. In PVP I run Sacred Flame / BoS for atwills. FF, AS, SB for encounters. HG/Hammer for dailys (this last one because I happen to currently have it specced, Flame Strike is just fine too) and Foresight/HV for class features. For PVE the only thing I change is sacred flame for astral seal and hammer for flamestrike or DA.
There are plenty of other effective set ups that can be run and if people really want to they can spec heavily for PVP. I'd probably get both Power of the Sun and Power of Oppression and use both FF and Break the Spirit along with probably AS i guess or maybe SB or Chains whatever floats your boat
As a 60 Cleric I don't get 1 shot'ed by anyone, maybe 3-4 shotted especially by GF who stun lock you for the entire thing. If I can get an AS down I can't get killed by anyone unless I get ganged up by 2-3+ people however you can't keep AS up all the time anymore. Plus if you get knocked out of your circle your pretty much toast.
Clerics certainly can NOT kill anyone so you aren't going to score any kills... Your best bet in PvP is hide among the other players and hope you can keep your AS up long enough for them to kill them.
I'm sorry that you seem to be having such a difficult time surviving with your cleric. However, none of what you said is even remotely true when I play.
I play a cleric. Clerics are healers. So I heal in PvP. I may only get 10 kills or less, but I'll get 50 assists and 5 deaths. I love my cleric. I suggest you try a new build maybe.
There is talk of them giving better rewards for a healing cleric in pvp, and when they do, I will 99% of every match be on the top of the boards.
For bonus points, explain how you can be useful in PVP and PVE on the same build, so clerics won't be dead weight in one phase or another of Gauntlygrim. Because the current situation with Clerics is garbage.
He can't, he is a learn to play troll with no actual hard evidence to back him up on any of his "I'm so awesome" posts.
I have...in countless posts. Talked about my build, my stats, my gear, my rotations. I'm not "bragging" about anything. I'm trying to encourage you to try differant things, obviously you enjoy dieing constantly though so whatev dudes
Who ever say this game has pvp, he needs to go and check his IQ.
Get a screenshot of the burst heals, just press print screen and it's fine. It boggles me how you (a veteran) cannot for the love of god get a screenshot.
How are you against stun locks? Organized teams? 1 hit TRs? A video would be nice.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
Check it at the door? You appear to have taken your own advice, though it's not 100% clear what you're trying to communicate.
We need one of these things for starters: Remove the 40% less healing penalty on oneself. Make our healings more powerful, right now Astral Shield is our ONLY powerful ability. Give us a physical shield (like in the original D&D), or plate armor, OR some sort of heavy defense spell (e.g. a paladins "bouble"). Another idea is to give us something that lets us escape combat, what if we could sprout golden wings that frees us from all CC and increases our movement speed for a couple of seconds.
Actually i might do some things wrong. Yes. But it REALLY is beyond me, why - as a healer, and I want to heal, not some cheesy dps bs - I cant heal myself.
I am sitting on 2k Def. Running a Linked Spirit Build (and use it!) but the only chance for me is, if i can heal a dps class, and my adversary is stupid enough to switch to that one. Some days I thought... "wow, i'm THAT much of a thread, that he actually turns around to kill the other guy first and then me" to be honest: I dont like that. Since I dont actually have to win pvp matches for that studpid Daily PvP Quest, I can live with it, but I might have to do something about that. I cant be that bad of a player, at least I hope so
- Doc Holliday
Most of our buffs and heals are AoE, so if you get a good team that sticks together and stays on point, you can not only heal for far more (because they're all, like...right there), but you're harder to single out, you get uber buffs from linked spirit, and you can really swing the tide of fights. A rogue that dashes out to murder a CW is handy, but a rogue that dashes out to murder a CW that you've also stuck divine forgemaster's on is a rogue that will then be able to murder someone else without even pausing for breath.
Plus even if you do get singled out (and you will), you've got a much better chance of surviving it (since the rest of your team can gank whoever's attacking you).
If your team just splinters and leaves you all alone, you could be the most overgeared cleric on the server and you're still wormfood.
We're probably the only class that really NEEDS the rest of our team to be on form, as we're primarily support/heals. Everyone else can wander off on their own for loltastic 1v1 funz, we can't. However, if everyone else IS on form, we can really make the critical difference.
It's usually a miserable experience, yes. But it can be amazing when it works.
I knew how to take screenshots by pressing "B", then finding it in the neverwinter folder. I didn't, until yesterday, know that just pressing print screen, then pasting in Paint was how to take SS of everything. So yes, I will be posting plenty of SS when I get the chance. If you know of a video recording program that is free and easy to use, please lemme know. I've never done videos in any mmo, but I would like to start, and I have a computer that will handle any program.
How am I against stun locks? It all depends. A better question would be, how is "anyone" against stun locks? If you cant do anything, well..then you die like everyone else. In certain situations, which I have talked about in other posts, I have had enough heals going where I took 15 CC's, from 2 rogues, and 1 cw, and survived a 4 minute 3vs1 fight.
Against organized teams. Again, all depends. If an organized team times there CC's correctly, not one single person in this entire game, will be able to do anything about. If they cared about actual PvP, they would introduce Diminishing Returns, then skill could actually come into play. As it stands right now, you don't even have to be that good to stun lock someone, there is no resistances, no actual pvp gear, no dispels. Again back to, what does any class do against being stun locked? Nothing
Against 1 shot Rogues. Same thing. What does anyone do when you get one shot? That shouldn't even be a question, its silly to even say. If you get one shot, well..you die. However, its sooooo rare that a rogue 1 vs 1 ever, ever beats me. Unless of course you get one shot. My self heals and rotations put out so much health I laugh at there 10k crits. Generally rogues 1 vs 1 turn and run when they realize my health is forever rising.
How am I fighting rogues 1 vs 1? I'm going to walk through my rotations, of course **** is fight dependant, and things will change. But for me, a perfect rotation will look like this.
See rogue, cast Astral Seal, Cast normal Astral Shield, cast sunburst in normal/switch to divine for Linked Spirit. Healing Word in normal mode(at this point i'll be getting damaged by the rogue)so I use a healing word in divine mode, again sunburst in normal/switch to divine for LS. All while this is happening, I am using Sacred Flame in between spells when my health allows for it. Generally after my first rotation, the rogue is at half health. My sunburst high crits are around 4-6k, sacred flame 1-4k. This in a nutshell, is how I fight every single person, no madder the class. I'm very good at dodging, and watching enemy character animations, so I do generally avoid a lot of encounters/dailys. Astral Shield is not my crutch, as I am forever moving in fights. Unless the class is terrible and I want to embarrass them by standing still(which happens quite often).
In a group fight, my healing rotations are much of the same, but with this build, in a group I heal for a toooooon more. Because I am able to use Soothing Light. Soothing light is the reason, I generally never waste Divinity on Astral Shield, the heals for myself, and team member by far outweigh the heals coming from AS-Divine mode. As a cleric of course I am always being focused, so in a group, if atleast 1 member isn't 100% health, I can cast Soothing Light, and heal myself for a sick amount, and if I'm using Soothing Light, I will always, always, use Healing Word immiedately after casting Soothing Light, then normal sunburst. This is where the Burst heals in this build come in.
Barabus The Gray
Mindflayer
Soothing light and punishing light I never use they were always pathetic and I have way better uses for divinity. They buffed them supposedly in same patch that nerfed AS so maybe they are now better - will try it sometime. Still soothing light is hot so I don't know where you see burst healing. When you can heal 20k in single heal over 0 secs then we'll talk about burst healing. With an appropriate cooldown ofc.
Soothing light >Healing WOrd(divine mode)>sunburst. I've hit over 30khealing in a matter of seconds with this. I actually do call that burst healing. I highly doubt we will ever get a heal that will heal for 20k. My biggest heal crit on a team member has been a healing word divine mode for 15.6k. Soothing Light is amazing
I never said this build was "special"...I'm just having success with it, try it or not. But I love it
The benefit of video over pictures is that we will get to see the actual burst heal you can do (not heal over time, i've healed over 40000 HP over time without trying). You could use Fraps. Googling for video-recording programs is another (I also know that Neverwinter allows video-recording in game, just don't know how)
GWF has Unstoppable (nigh inpregnable defenses as well), GF has block (same as GWF stats), CWs have 3 blinks (****ty but they have CC to also help them if needed), TRs have ItC/Stealth (perma-stealth builds anyone?), Clerics on the other hand, have 2 dodges and heals (apparently you have a incredible amount, pointing to videos and screenies again). There are several means for other classes to mitigate these, Clerics dont. Again, having hard evidence (pictures, a video will be perfect) will silence your detractors.
Also, the only way you can tank 2 rogues and 1 CW is basically them being severely undergeared, this doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of your build, so I don't see why you try to include it for each argument you have.
I've gotten into 4v1s on my glass-cleric and managed to kill them all, does it mean the build i'm running is currently better than yours? No. It means the people I fought had ****ty gear and wer
Unless your whole team is with you linked spirit isn't going to work well. Linked Spirit is a great PvE feat, and will only become a good PvP feat if the majority of your team decides to be with you (recipe for a loss).
TR perspective: See DC, go perma-stealth and proceed to wittle down DC (finish off with lashing blade/shocking). Can't kill DC? Move to much squishier target. Keep on point to stop point acquisition.
TR perspective (stereotypical type): Go into stealth (not in your LoS ofcourse), pop Lashing Blade, drop smoke, if target gets out of smoke pop dazing strike. Target goes below 30? Shocking. Doesn't? Lurkers Assault.
Also, your "rotation" is the basic M.O. for clerics. And the only time I assume you can let off auto-attacks is if it's not a 1v1 scenario. In a 1v1 you shouldn't have time to cast Sacred Flame because stopping means death to half-good any-class.
As I write my reply to you I'm looking at your build thread. I'm pretty sure we'll get screenshots soon (since you already know how to get them) and that would answer A LOT of questions. You posted your deflection severity when all classes have 50% def severity (a more useful stat would be deflect chance). A half decent (9.5k++) and adequately skilled TR/GWF/GF will insta-gib you with those kind of defenses. You advocate the use of Sacred Flame because it's "good for your build" but without pointing out that stopping to pop Sacred Flame can mean death. There are so many questions that need answering and that's why people can't take you seriously, because you don't have the evidence to back it up (at least for now)
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
As far as your stun lock comments. I guess you and I are on a different page. I don't care if a cw has 50 ways of avoiding cc's, or a GF has 200 different ways etc, the minute they actually do get locked(and they will), any good group can keep them lock 100% till death. So that point is null, we need diminishing returns. Also, I made the point to talk about a particular fight, because I had enough healing going, and was able to stay alive through many cc's and dailys, seemed a valid point to me. Yah, ss or it didn't happen, I get it
Your perspective on fighting clerics, is identical to mine fighting rogues. I don't fear rogues at all, ever. Sure I get one shot, by so does everyone else, that's not "skill".
Videos to come, and if your on Mindflayer, hit me up, we can pvp together and I'll show you first hand how a good cleric heals