I dont care WHAT class you play, if your guild booted you, two things are possible. Either you did something that upset your guild, or your guild should be ashamed of itself. If the latter, I'd definitely find another guild.
When a Moderator comes up and states the obvious I become greatly offended. I have quit 5 guilds all for the same reason of GWF hate, getting kicked from groups by Guild members that have never grouped a single dungeon with me or simply never getting invited in the first place due to my class. Unless something is done and I can actually get a group without facing constant leavers I'm simply not coming back to the game. I want to play GWF and no other class appeals to me. Getting hate from other players simply from my class chocie after we are supposedly "fixed" tells me I should not even bother waiting for another "fix". That this is as good as it's going to get.
I'll poke my head in on the forums, now and then cuz I like the D&D aspect. But Final Fantasy 14 is getting some good reviews now it might be worth a second look. Maybe Neverwinter could do the same. But I beleive FF14 completely rebuild there game with an entirely new team... Also maybe Neverwinter should do the same.
It's not the class. It's the fact that the dungeons are done by throwing adds off ledges. It's not the class, it's the content.
Buff roar to knock back opponents more effectively and then maybe they'll be a viable alternative to having 2 CW instead. If GWF become just as effective at cliff tossing as CW nobody would kick them.
Buff roar to knock back opponents more effectively and then maybe they'll be a viable alternative to having 2 CW instead. If GWF become just as effective at cliff tossing as CW nobody would kick them.
**** roar. Give knockback on Reaping Strike, the lv.1 at-will.
17% of players play GWF.
10%, Non GWF players think they are essential
26%, of players are indifferent to GWF and will group with them as readily as any other Class.
45%, or players say no and have one reason or another to not like the GWF.
Now as a GWF player I have long ago stopped making my own groups just could not be botherd spending the time I only do dungeons now when the few guildies I regular talk to are on and want to do something. We rarely ever do CN, but I do have 30+ kill on Draco.
These polls tell me why I dont make groups anymore... Of all the players in the game only 36% will group with you the players that are indifferent or think you are useful.
And from reading these posts it tells me the GWF is definitely not fixed. Any class that is excluded from the top tier dungeons for any reason still needs to have some work done to it. Or done to the dungeons.
I ask cryptic to buff the GWFS usefulness in the group without making them stronger in PvP. So dont increase damage or defenses but give them moves that buff there entire party so the entire gorup can kill trash better. Or just reduce the games focus on trash so GWFs are not fighting a 2nd CW for a spot anymore.
They just fixed it for GWFs more than ever... with less ledges to throw adds, and with way less shortcuts in T2 instances... GWFs will be desired... will take some time to mass to understand it, but as now, GFs are the FOTM in any dungeon run (now we are wanted, after being autokicked prepatch) GWFs will be also wanted in next weeks, AoE killing of mobs will be sweet.
No they did not just fix it more than ever. GWF's are way gimped for their designed role. That being said GWF's do have a role they increase dps for the group and reduce dmg intake for the grp. GWF can assist gathering mobs and debuff the mobs. used to do an initial pull they can grab the first hard hit and TR or CW can blast. If mobs get on the healer drag or push them off the healer. They are a utility class. Good use of a GWF Spell Plague boss mobs spawn aoe walk to edge come and get it quick spin roar or cw gives a nudge. Other support features DC getting punked or TR nuked go stun lock the mob debuff it disrupt it kill it etc. Grant it the gather and toss method is much faster clearing a dungeon but not necesarily better you can get some pretty good drops from trash all have the rare loot table or good VT.
This is a tough thread I mean GWF are no where close to being right but I think they have some utility and class features that are still usefull.
The GF topic I am impressed to hear. I have a TR @ 60 I haven't seen a crazy dps GF I see the ones that hold block down then do KD hit a couple times then back to block. In PvP I dont really mind on my GWF i will just stand there they drop down their shield then i KD wms flourish indom. if they decide to go back to turtle mode i just wait. Must be a lvl 60 GF w/ sweet enchants my rogue only has pvp gear a ring and belt from drops so far.
When a Moderator comes up and states the obvious I become greatly offended. I have quit 5 guilds all for the same reason of GWF hate, getting kicked from groups by Guild members that have never grouped a single dungeon with me or simply never getting invited in the first place due to my class.
Ok so your choice of guilds was poor. Did you ever thing to possibly ASK the guild leader if there is such activities going on in their guild? If they cant answer that question, then they arent very good guild leaders.
GWF can use a small buff still to damage, but I found the recent changes very helpful to the class. Building it and playing it to its best effectiveness is the real challenge. If you are having that much trouble playing GWF you are doing it wrong. If you are finding others pre-judging you based on class alone, then that's on them, not you.
There are plenty of guilds that will take a player that wants to PLAY, without pre-judging you, so if you need help in that venture, let me know.
GWF are fine after the balance patch. Could you do it without one? Sure. Does one handicap the party? I don't think so myself but then again I run with a very knowledgeable and geared one and his play skills may offset any negative of running with a GWF.
A lot of CWs are **** and don't use the infinite blackhole spec correctly. AoE dps is still needed, it's just GWF lacks too much single target.
Thats just it, people want the class to be something it isnt. The players who play it for what it is are the ones doing well in all content. GWF is the add killer class, straight up. It wrecks adds being tanked next to the boss very well. Its odd that people deny them to skirmishes and dungeons and then the same players complain about too many adds.
Ok so your choice of guilds was poor. Did you ever thing to possibly ASK the guild leader if there is such activities going on in their guild? If they cant answer that question, then they arent very good guild leaders.
GWF can use a small buff still to damage, but I found the recent changes very helpful to the class. Building it and playing it to its best effectiveness is the real challenge. If you are having that much trouble playing GWF you are doing it wrong. If you are finding others pre-judging you based on class alone, then that's on them, not you.
There are plenty of guilds that will take a player that wants to PLAY, without pre-judging you, so if you need help in that venture, let me know.
Whoa man not cool, I dont respec anyone for telling someone they are playing there class wrong after they say they are getting kicked form groups fomr players they have never even played with. I get that kind of hate too, so I only play with a few people that know I am a good GWF. But I still can't get a CN group outside that small group. And it is only a small group in a very large guild, other guildies wont run with a GWF and still do the CW, CW, DC, DC, TR thing... surprisingly enough.
SO yeah your turning me against he mods and the devs on these boards.
I main as a CW, and i recently have a GWF. but even before i find it stupid and ignorant that you need a TR. Ive used guardians/TRs and GWFs for draco. it doesnt make any difference when it comes to success, it may or may not take longer depends entirely on the player of that class. Im alot more concerned about the wizard or cleric rather than who goes on the dragon.
You're just full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, all of you.
Stop pretending you're GWFs that farm CN on a regular basis or you aren't prejudiced against them.
Have you guys ever typed "/who Castle Never" ? Check the teams that go on each CN server and you'll see there's not even 1% of GWF among them.
Why would that be ? Well since there is no trash to clear because of all the skips then only the Dracolich fight counts, and a GWF is just useless on that fight. As long as the Draco fights requires 2 CWs (I know it's possible with 1, but it's slower) to do the bumps then GFs and GWFs simply won't have their spot.
A TR will always beat any other class for single-target DPS because that's how it's supposed to be. Even if you spec your GWF in single-target DMG with high gear, stone, vorpal... you won't be even close to a decent TR's damage.
They just have to add an option in game that lets everybody see who has run what with the various areas. So the stats people see in game can't be denied. Clear a dungeon? Game records that X number of GF GWF CW DC TR. Another party clears same dungeon? Their numbers are added to the first. End of the day you see that Dungeon X groups that finished had a total of 3 GWF 29 TR 53 CW 22 GF and 73 DC ect well I'm sure its not that hard to add a game counter.
a gwf guildie (not me) asked to be in a dungeon group and was answered Ok we'll take you, but this means we won't be able to down the final boss.
And atm there are only 5 classes, and there are five slots in a group. The incoming new classes will make gwf acceptance even more problematic.
I've been wondering this same thing. Pretty much any new class that comes out has a potential of causing one of the current classes except for maybe cleric to become obsolete. Going off the ranged idea, and how the game mechanics seem to work this class would have to have either less defense than a rogue but higher dps at range or some odd combination like a gf has with tanking. But I think the first idea has more merit than a tanking range class.
So if I had to bet money on which class would get the boot. If this range class is highest dps in game it will push rogue out unless it has no CC ability which I really doubt they wouldn't give a range class cc.
GWFs are useful for a specific role. They provide a mitigation debuff (SOS and the at-will) while handling rezzes when more crucial group members cannot afford to do so. They're also good at running to unlock campfires for the group.
Inviting a GWF to a serious group always happens after at least one TR/DC/CW have been invited, and sometimes two, because it is the least important role. It's not that GWFs are bad in CN, it's just that they're not necessary, and most people don't really know what to do with them. Bringing another CW instead could more or less fill the same role in the last fight while providing more utility.
I've been wondering this same thing. Pretty much any new class that comes out has a potential of causing one of the current classes except for maybe cleric to become obsolete. Going off the ranged idea, and how the game mechanics seem to work this class would have to have either less defense than a rogue but higher dps at range or some odd combination like a gf has with tanking. But I think the first idea has more merit than a tanking range class.
So if I had to bet money on which class would get the boot. If this range class is highest dps in game it will push rogue out unless it has no CC ability which I really doubt they wouldn't give a range class cc.
I believe the rogue will be removed with a few exceptions. Ranged dps should be better for bosses as they dont have to dodge the melee range boss AOE. Just think about how much of it is in melee range. Now if that ranged dps had kiting abilities it should be able to keep moving and dpsing. A rogue wouldnt be able to beat that.
You will still have 2 CW for the chain ccing with 2 DC for CN. I see lots of T2 2 rogue 2 CW and one DC. The change will be those rogues will lose 1 or maybe 2 of those slots.
Most likely lots of those rogues will roll the hunter class so same same.
Agreed, GWF's are more dps than TR's, especially if the wizard uses singularity often enough. Said by a wizard :P
GWF's does more damage than TR. These simply means u ppl have no right to post a thread abt nerfing TR then. He just said that GWF does more dps than TR if so what is the role of TR in PvE then?
The reason why GWF not fit for pve because in my opinion any class is fine to replace them 1 tank with 1 cleric is enough 1 or 2 rogues is enough to deal with bosses 1/2 cw is enough to deal with adds. GWF is a semi tank and semi dpser since 1 tank and 1 cleric is enough why get a GWF? is it for Adds? well if u would replace the other slot for the GWF by a CW it would be better for me because they can buy time and get rid of adds too. with 2 rogues u can kill single targets much faster with 2 cleric u have 2x more heal. For me its pointless to make a GWF class because I honestly knew that these class wont have a role in PvE. When I was making my 1st character I almost pick these class but then these came out in my mind. No offense to GWF users there
I believe the rogue will be removed with a few exceptions. Ranged dps should be better for bosses as they dont have to dodge the melee range boss AOE. Just think about how much of it is in melee range. Now if that ranged dps had kiting abilities it should be able to keep moving and dpsing. A rogue wouldnt be able to beat that.
You will still have 2 CW for the chain ccing with 2 DC for CN. I see lots of T2 2 rogue 2 CW and one DC. The change will be those rogues will lose 1 or maybe 2 of those slots.
Most likely lots of those rogues will roll the hunter class so same same.
Spot on prediction, most likely. If the Ranger, which I think I saw is the next class, ends up being a ranged version of the TR, even if it has slightly lower DPS, it will completely remove TRs from the game as well. Ranged DPS is simply more advantageous in every game, and the only reason TRs are used now is that their single target DPS is so much higher than anyone else. You plop something that can DPS like a TR from 30 yards on the table and everyone will be scrabbling for one.
As I sat here, I had a premonition, one that made my eyes glaze over. If this does come to pass, and TRs are out of a job like us, I could see Cryptic 'fixing' their plight by increasing TR DPS to a level that would overcome the melee range disadvantage versus the Ranger. So in other words, it would go from the crazy high DPS it is right now, to pants on head <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> levels. Instead of numbers, it would be names of various fruit and snippets of old poems that popped up on screen for the few seconds the boss was alive. And you KNOW Cryptic might actually do something like that too, don't deny it.
Well as i have understood, in 4e Ranged Ranger is the top dps class (was already ridiculously OP in 3.5, arcane archer was OP as hell) so i guess that will be the case, Tank, Healer, Cw, Archer... and then, maybe GwF, or whatever...
Personally I called for a GWF buff before last patch.
Now every PVP match has a smack talking sent build GWF in it now trolling the other team.
I would take never ever take them on a CN run. They are more than useless against the last boss. Rogue does more damage and dodges boss aoe better. DC more heals. GWF cant dps down adds anywhere close to a CW punting.
If you punt correctly the adds wont respawn. If you have a GWF dpsing they will respawn respawn respawn. Why would you bother.
Lots of good points as to Why GWF are falling behind as a valuable teamate here. question is... When will Cryptic listen and how long after that can we expect a functional fix?
Lots of good points as to Why GWF are falling behind as a valuable teamate here. question is... When will Cryptic listen and how long after that can we expect a functional fix?
Id prefer they didnt as every GWF i meet in PVP now is a smack talking ******. But what i look forward to is the rivers of rogues sweet tears when the ranged dps arrives. And on every post where they cry about it i will use Pinkfonts most used quote "working as intended" lol.
Comments
When a Moderator comes up and states the obvious I become greatly offended. I have quit 5 guilds all for the same reason of GWF hate, getting kicked from groups by Guild members that have never grouped a single dungeon with me or simply never getting invited in the first place due to my class. Unless something is done and I can actually get a group without facing constant leavers I'm simply not coming back to the game. I want to play GWF and no other class appeals to me. Getting hate from other players simply from my class chocie after we are supposedly "fixed" tells me I should not even bother waiting for another "fix". That this is as good as it's going to get.
I'll poke my head in on the forums, now and then cuz I like the D&D aspect. But Final Fantasy 14 is getting some good reviews now it might be worth a second look. Maybe Neverwinter could do the same. But I beleive FF14 completely rebuild there game with an entirely new team... Also maybe Neverwinter should do the same.
**** roar. Give knockback on Reaping Strike, the lv.1 at-will.
17% of players play GWF.
10%, Non GWF players think they are essential
26%, of players are indifferent to GWF and will group with them as readily as any other Class.
45%, or players say no and have one reason or another to not like the GWF.
Now as a GWF player I have long ago stopped making my own groups just could not be botherd spending the time I only do dungeons now when the few guildies I regular talk to are on and want to do something. We rarely ever do CN, but I do have 30+ kill on Draco.
These polls tell me why I dont make groups anymore... Of all the players in the game only 36% will group with you the players that are indifferent or think you are useful.
And from reading these posts it tells me the GWF is definitely not fixed. Any class that is excluded from the top tier dungeons for any reason still needs to have some work done to it. Or done to the dungeons.
I ask cryptic to buff the GWFS usefulness in the group without making them stronger in PvP. So dont increase damage or defenses but give them moves that buff there entire party so the entire gorup can kill trash better. Or just reduce the games focus on trash so GWFs are not fighting a 2nd CW for a spot anymore.
This is a tough thread I mean GWF are no where close to being right but I think they have some utility and class features that are still usefull.
The GF topic I am impressed to hear. I have a TR @ 60 I haven't seen a crazy dps GF I see the ones that hold block down then do KD hit a couple times then back to block. In PvP I dont really mind on my GWF i will just stand there they drop down their shield then i KD wms flourish indom. if they decide to go back to turtle mode i just wait. Must be a lvl 60 GF w/ sweet enchants my rogue only has pvp gear a ring and belt from drops so far.
Ok so your choice of guilds was poor. Did you ever thing to possibly ASK the guild leader if there is such activities going on in their guild? If they cant answer that question, then they arent very good guild leaders.
GWF can use a small buff still to damage, but I found the recent changes very helpful to the class. Building it and playing it to its best effectiveness is the real challenge. If you are having that much trouble playing GWF you are doing it wrong. If you are finding others pre-judging you based on class alone, then that's on them, not you.
There are plenty of guilds that will take a player that wants to PLAY, without pre-judging you, so if you need help in that venture, let me know.
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/shrug
Thats just it, people want the class to be something it isnt. The players who play it for what it is are the ones doing well in all content. GWF is the add killer class, straight up. It wrecks adds being tanked next to the boss very well. Its odd that people deny them to skirmishes and dungeons and then the same players complain about too many adds.
Whoa man not cool, I dont respec anyone for telling someone they are playing there class wrong after they say they are getting kicked form groups fomr players they have never even played with. I get that kind of hate too, so I only play with a few people that know I am a good GWF. But I still can't get a CN group outside that small group. And it is only a small group in a very large guild, other guildies wont run with a GWF and still do the CW, CW, DC, DC, TR thing... surprisingly enough.
SO yeah your turning me against he mods and the devs on these boards.
Not Cool Not Cool
Silly people are silly.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You're just full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, all of you.
Stop pretending you're GWFs that farm CN on a regular basis or you aren't prejudiced against them.
Have you guys ever typed "/who Castle Never" ? Check the teams that go on each CN server and you'll see there's not even 1% of GWF among them.
Why would that be ? Well since there is no trash to clear because of all the skips then only the Dracolich fight counts, and a GWF is just useless on that fight. As long as the Draco fights requires 2 CWs (I know it's possible with 1, but it's slower) to do the bumps then GFs and GWFs simply won't have their spot.
A TR will always beat any other class for single-target DPS because that's how it's supposed to be. Even if you spec your GWF in single-target DMG with high gear, stone, vorpal... you won't be even close to a decent TR's damage.
And atm there are only 5 classes, and there are five slots in a group. The incoming new classes will make gwf acceptance even more problematic.
I've been wondering this same thing. Pretty much any new class that comes out has a potential of causing one of the current classes except for maybe cleric to become obsolete. Going off the ranged idea, and how the game mechanics seem to work this class would have to have either less defense than a rogue but higher dps at range or some odd combination like a gf has with tanking. But I think the first idea has more merit than a tanking range class.
So if I had to bet money on which class would get the boot. If this range class is highest dps in game it will push rogue out unless it has no CC ability which I really doubt they wouldn't give a range class cc.
Inviting a GWF to a serious group always happens after at least one TR/DC/CW have been invited, and sometimes two, because it is the least important role. It's not that GWFs are bad in CN, it's just that they're not necessary, and most people don't really know what to do with them. Bringing another CW instead could more or less fill the same role in the last fight while providing more utility.
I believe the rogue will be removed with a few exceptions. Ranged dps should be better for bosses as they dont have to dodge the melee range boss AOE. Just think about how much of it is in melee range. Now if that ranged dps had kiting abilities it should be able to keep moving and dpsing. A rogue wouldnt be able to beat that.
You will still have 2 CW for the chain ccing with 2 DC for CN. I see lots of T2 2 rogue 2 CW and one DC. The change will be those rogues will lose 1 or maybe 2 of those slots.
Most likely lots of those rogues will roll the hunter class so same same.
GWF's does more damage than TR. These simply means u ppl have no right to post a thread abt nerfing TR then. He just said that GWF does more dps than TR if so what is the role of TR in PvE then?
Spot on prediction, most likely. If the Ranger, which I think I saw is the next class, ends up being a ranged version of the TR, even if it has slightly lower DPS, it will completely remove TRs from the game as well. Ranged DPS is simply more advantageous in every game, and the only reason TRs are used now is that their single target DPS is so much higher than anyone else. You plop something that can DPS like a TR from 30 yards on the table and everyone will be scrabbling for one.
As I sat here, I had a premonition, one that made my eyes glaze over. If this does come to pass, and TRs are out of a job like us, I could see Cryptic 'fixing' their plight by increasing TR DPS to a level that would overcome the melee range disadvantage versus the Ranger. So in other words, it would go from the crazy high DPS it is right now, to pants on head <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> levels. Instead of numbers, it would be names of various fruit and snippets of old poems that popped up on screen for the few seconds the boss was alive. And you KNOW Cryptic might actually do something like that too, don't deny it.
Now every PVP match has a smack talking sent build GWF in it now trolling the other team.
I would take never ever take them on a CN run. They are more than useless against the last boss. Rogue does more damage and dodges boss aoe better. DC more heals. GWF cant dps down adds anywhere close to a CW punting.
If you punt correctly the adds wont respawn. If you have a GWF dpsing they will respawn respawn respawn. Why would you bother.
Id prefer they didnt as every GWF i meet in PVP now is a smack talking ******. But what i look forward to is the rivers of rogues sweet tears when the ranged dps arrives. And on every post where they cry about it i will use Pinkfonts most used quote "working as intended" lol.