Im speaking from experience. I havent run half the quest content on multiple toons that have already outleveled that content.
On my second toon I made sure to run the stuff I did not run on my first character, having to ignore alot of the zones I played on my first character to do so, just so that I could experience the content I missed the first time.
The issue you are likely experiencing is that many of the quests are in a linear fashion from each NPC. There might be 5 NPCs in a zone that give quests, but 30-50 quests or more in that zone, because you have to do the first quest and turn it in to get the next 2 then do those 2 to get the next 3 or 4 etc....
I usually get done with 2 entire quest lines before they want to send me to another zone already because I over leveled the one I am in. On my second toon I made sure to do the quest lines from different NPCs I did not talk to the first time around simply so that I could see all of the content. I have not had to overlap much yet, which tells me theres at least 2x the amount of Xpneeded per zone questing alone to outlevel the zone.
Sorry, but I have not seen any of that. Several zones I ran circles around baffled because I thought there HAD to be more quests
But there were not. Unless cryptic is physically blocking my account from quest lines, I simply have not seen what you are apparently seeing lol. I did exactly what you are saying you did right up till 60.
The answer is NOT nerfing exp. All nerfing exp is going to cause is a massive grind. Nerfing exp forces people to do things they do not want to do. If someone wants to quest to 60, they can do that. If someone wants to pvp or dungeon their way to 60, they can also do that. The problem, currently is that people cannot do all of those things on one character without outleveling either quests or dungeons.
OH MY GOD NERF EX-..NO! Stop it, down boy!
So what, then, is the answer, you ask? Either level scaling, or sidekicking. I prefer sidekicking, as it would allow everyone to do whatever they wanted at any level without forcong their problems on other people (endgame aside since lowbies would obviously not have the required gearscore.).
Embrace the sidekicking movement, and please stop trying to delude yourselves into thinking an exp nerf would turn this game into anything but a grindfest.
Cryptic should add an option so that you can disable experience then you can disable or enable it any time you want to continue through the game.
Sorry, but I have not seen any of that. Several zones I ran circles around baffled because I thought there HAD to be more quests
But there were not. Unless cryptic is physically blocking my account from quest lines, I simply have not seen what you are apparently seeing lol. I did exactly what you are saying you did right up till 60.
Then it is literally what I explained. Youre running around looking for more quest NPCs. The new quests are only givin to you after you ran the first ones the quest NPCs already gave you. So running around looking for more quests will not help you. You have to take the quests given to you by the NPCs that are there, complete those, then you unlock more, from the same NPCs.
This is exactly what I explained in my last post.
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sirwatson8181Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited June 2013
Yeah, something's seriously wrong with the way pizzasumurai's playing the game. This is not meant as a criticizm; I'd honestly be worried about his eyesight or something if I were his doctor.
That he had to run around multiple zones actually looking for quests to do and somehow was UNDERleveled for many of them is incredible to me. I'm by no means a hardcore MMO player but I absolutely breezed through Neverwinter's content, gobbling down XP in a feeding frenzy and the whole time thinking to myself, "This is way too easy. I hope this progression slows down." It didn't, and here I am staring 60 in the face.
Then again, however, with a game that puts a magical little shiny quest trail ahead of you (which I immediately disabled in horror once I started the game) I guess it's to be expected that its leveling is intentionally fast.
It's too bad, because the visual fidelity of this game and its core combat mechanics are good enough to deserve a much larger stage. If the game world were stretched to be about ten times its current size I think the impact it has and will have on the gaming community and in gaming history would have been much greater. As it is, it may merely remain a small blip on the radar.
Sorry, but I have not seen any of that. Several zones I ran circles around baffled because I thought there HAD to be more quests
But there were not. Unless cryptic is physically blocking my account from quest lines, I simply have not seen what you are apparently seeing lol. I did exactly what you are saying you did right up till 60.
Here is a list of all the quests, I have been using this to insure that I see all content...
P.S. In fear of getting too much xp, I also do not kill any mobs in zones unless I absolutely have to, and really that is not very fun:)
Cryptic should add an option so that you can disable experience then you can disable or enable it any time you want to continue through the game.
This.
Levelling was way too fast for me considering the lack of anything much to do at 60. Everything gives xp from praying to crafting to foundry, quests, skirmishes dungeons. A simple xp on/off toggle would keep both sides of the fence happy.
I'm all for an xp nerf. Specifically, remove the XP from invoking
I fully agree with this. There is no reason to get a couple of thousands XP from pressing Ctrl-I. That's equal to a couple of quests right there. Furthermore, I'd lose the XP from the Leadership profession. This skill already generates AD. No need to add XP as well when other professions only generate one kind of "item." I could also see the ability to turn XP off individually and it should be an easy thing to code.
I understand why there is an objection to a blanket nerf of XP. Playing the game as a completionist, I began outleveling areas in probably the 20s. I had slowed my progression enough that I may only be 2 or so levels above where I should be but I had not run PvP, Foundry, Skirmish, or Dungeon in a few days. Yesterday, I did do a Skirmish and Foundry as well as regular questing, Leadership crafting, and invoking and once again, I believe I'm about 4 levels higher than my current area dictates. It's clear to me that there is plenty of XP to be had in questing alone to keep an appropriate level, but a blanket nerf can't account for the person who does nothing but questing, or foundry, or PvP, or crafting and invoking. It's better to selectively nerf portions of the game and add a "turn off XP" toggle. Removing XP from invoking and Leadership won't affect people who concentrate on those areas much at all. I can't imagine anyone doing ONLY those two things in the game to gain XP. If they were, they wouldn't be having much fun...
Then it is literally what I explained. Youre running around looking for more quest NPCs. The new quests are only givin to you after you ran the first ones the quest NPCs already gave you. So running around looking for more quests will not help you. You have to take the quests given to you by the NPCs that are there, complete those, then you unlock more, from the same NPCs.
This is exactly what I explained in my last post.
You are glossing over the fact that I stated every zone I went to was 100% completed by the time I left them. That you are suggesting that I somehow missed entire quest chains sounds very very silly to me, you have to understand this. If what you are saying is true, then someone, somewhere should still have a quest for me in that zone. They, in fact, do not. So no, it is not what you are describing. I made very sure to not miss any quests.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
Eh, good points but I still feel like the game levels players far too quickly.
Cryptic designed the system to require 60 hours of gameplay or so to reach level 60. I think it's far less than that which alone is a problem. I think it might be closer to 30-40 Hours in some cases which is just far, far too quickly.
120 Hours to reach level 60 is ideal IMO. Other systems should be taken into account as well but right now the levels just come to fast. There's no "Yeah I'm level 60!" moment because although it does take time it comes so very, very easily. I remember going from level 50-60 within 6 hours on my cleric and that's just too fast.
On top of that out-leveling content after the Tower District is beyond easy. If you ask most people they ended up completely skipping a zone somewhere along the way.
I actually skipped half The Chasm, all of Icespire Peak and The Whispering Caverns and still reach level 60 without doing more than a handful of Foundry quests. While it's fine to say you want it to be fast that's something which is obviously a bit problematic.
Yeah, something's seriously wrong with the way pizzasumurai's playing the game. This is not meant as a criticizm; I'd honestly be worried about his eyesight or something if I were his doctor.
That he had to run around multiple zones actually looking for quests to do and somehow was UNDERleveled for many of them is incredible to me. I'm by no means a hardcore MMO player but I absolutely breezed through Neverwinter's content, gobbling down XP in a feeding frenzy and the whole time thinking to myself, "This is way too easy. I hope this progression slows down." It didn't, and here I am staring 60 in the face.
Now, now, let’s not try to make fun of the OP’s eyesight. She doesn’t come to VoTech and make fun of you now does she?
I have seen the phenomenon of being under-leveled as well. Following the sparkle trail of the quest fairies and found myself in Blackdagger with yet another glowy trail that led to some bandits. Not too worrying, in fact at this point there was only a single bandit there and not even a boss. It was as if someone had happened by and murdered the group save for one and left him as a message.
So needing the contents of said bandits pocket I jumped on him with much abandon and after about a minute I wondered why he was taking so little damage. He really didn’t have a chance of hurting me but he was just tough as nails. That’s when I noticed that he was four levels higher than me.
In following the line of quests set out by the game I had found myself in a dangerous disparity with the mobs of the zone. Had there been a full encounter there, even my cleric could not have saved me from the vicious and quick beatdown to follow.
Minion1 – Who was that?
Minion2 – I dunno, maybe he was delivering something?
Minion3 – Did anyone check his pockets?
Minion1 - …
Minion2 - …
Minion3 – See this is why we are Minions.
Luckily I had plenty of Foundry content to work out on and eventually I was an appropriate level to go back and restart my campaign of minion menace and materialism. But this is definitely a paradigm and likely has something to do with individual quest tuning.
It is interesting to note that everything is going just fine so long as the devs have everything scripted but as soon as we step off the tutorial bus the wheels come right off.
How do all those other games avoid this problem? Surely there are some forums the devs can peruse to figure this out?
Yeah, something's seriously wrong with the way pizzasumurai's playing the game. This is not meant as a criticizm; I'd honestly be worried about his eyesight or something if I were his doctor.
That he had to run around multiple zones actually looking for quests to do and somehow was UNDERleveled for many of them is incredible to me. I'm by no means a hardcore MMO player but I absolutely breezed through Neverwinter's content, gobbling down XP in a feeding frenzy and the whole time thinking to myself, "This is way too easy. I hope this progression slows down." It didn't, and here I am staring 60 in the face.
Then again, however, with a game that puts a magical little shiny quest trail ahead of you (which I immediately disabled in horror once I started the game) I guess it's to be expected that its leveling is intentionally fast.
It's too bad, because the visual fidelity of this game and its core combat mechanics are good enough to deserve a much larger stage. If the game world were stretched to be about ten times its current size I think the impact it has and will have on the gaming community and in gaming history would have been much greater. As it is, it may merely remain a small blip on the radar.
She, and there is nothing wrong with my eyesight, thank you. As I said, I did the running around and checking once I realized the mobs in the area were 2 levels above me and I was confused, because I was very certain I had done every quest available up until that point. It was the only time in my entire play experience that I was ever off level from the zone I was in. Have not solely leveled with questing either, since I already experienced it.
I never said it was difficult, I was a rogue after all. Just that I didnt notice it till they were 2 above me and it actually felt hard :P
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sirwatson8181Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited June 2013
pizzamurai,
While I agree with you that it would be ideal having "much bigger zones" and spreading levels out across them, it's still wishful thinking. Your so-called "exp nerf" is more realistic and is something that can be done easily and quickly, despite your claims of it resulting in something breaking.
Explain to me what would break if you disagree. You think the game would lose players in droves, merely for requiring them to spend a little more time in each adventuring area instead of them only being passing brief memories? Do you recall a lot of the details from the devil area, for example? I sure don't. Breezed through it much too quickly despite the fact it was plagued with pit fiends. Pit fiends!! Too many players bottlenecking a particular zone? That's possible, seeing as how many of the zones are so small and restrictive, but there are always more instances. Not enough income coming through from the hardcores reaching level 60 at breakneck speed (which there will always be, regardless of xp tuning)? I actually think Zen income would go up as a result of slowing the game's progression down. More and more players would be itching to buff their equipment to be able to reach the next zone quicker (by being able to kill more efficiently/quickly). As it is now you literally don't need to spend any AD or Zen at all in order to progress. Drop rate would be the only other thing I can think of that would need to be tweaked along with an XP gain adjustment so that players aren't swimming in green equipment all the time.
All I've ever called for is a mild adjustment. Slow it down by 20%. Give us some time to actually learn the zones a little before Sergeant What's-his-name is telling us to move on. Make us want to replay those dungeons for the xp and loot gains. Make us want to participate in the skirmishes before realizing, literally, that we skipped them without knowing they were available at that last level that we rofl'd our ways through. Players that *don't* want to repeat dungeons or skirmishes and who would rather reach cap as quickly as possible will be disappointed, but from what I can tell from these two threads regarding this subject they're in the minority.
I'm pretty sure the last thing you want in a new MMO is having the entirety of your playerbase capping out within a few weeks or even months of release. That's bad.
While I agree with you that it would be ideal having "much bigger zones" and spreading levels out across them, it's still wishful thinking. Your so-called "exp nerf" is more realistic and is something that can be done easily and quickly, despite your claims of it resulting in something breaking.
Explain to me what would break if you disagree. You think the game would lose players in droves, merely for requiring them to spend a little more time in each adventuring area instead of them only being passing brief memories? Do you recall a lot of the details from the devil area, for example? I sure don't. Breezed through it much too quickly despite the fact it was plagued with pit fiends. Pit fiends!! Too many players bottlenecking a particular zone? That's possible, seeing as how many of the zones are so small and restrictive, but there are always more instances. Not enough income coming through from the hardcores reaching level 60 at breakneck speed (which there will always be, regardless of xp tuning)? I actually think Zen income would go up as a result of slowing the game's progression down. More and more players would be itching to buff their equipment to be able to reach the next zone quicker (by being able to kill more efficiently/quickly). As it is now you literally don't need to spend any AD or Zen at all in order to progress. Drop rate would be the only other thing I can think of that would need to be tweaked along with an XP gain adjustment so that players aren't swimming in green equipment all the time.
All I've ever called for is a mild adjustment. Slow it down by 20%. Give us some time to actually learn the zones a little before Sergeant What's-his-name is telling us to move on. Make us want to replay those dungeons for the xp and loot gains. Make us want to participate in the skirmishes before realizing, literally, that we skipped them without knowing they were available at that last level that we rofl'd our ways through. Players that *don't* want to repeat dungeons or skirmishes and who would rather reach cap as quickly as possible will be disappointed, but from what I can tell from these two threads regarding this subject they're in the minority.
I'm pretty sure the last thing you want in a new MMO is having the entirety of your playerbase capping out within a few weeks or even months of release. That's bad.
I dont claim to know what the economic impacts of the exp nerf would be, frankly I dont care atm about the economy after all that has happened there
I am not even talking difficulty, or what should be harder/easier either. That discussion is for another thread.
What worries me is people throwing around percentages like they know exactly what effect it would have on the game.
A flat 25% exp nerf could literally force people to bash their face against either mobs, dungeons, or pvp simply because at the massive reduction, you are now left underleveled at the end of each zone unless you take part in the other aspects of the game is so very wrong. Its like if they made an endgame dungeon and forces people to pvp. Oh, wait.
Point is, this is not something that can be taken lightly, and it sure as hell is not something that can be solved by flat exp nerfs across the board all willy nilly. Before they do anything they need to add sidekicking, and perhaps this "real" lfg/lfm that people keep mentioning as well.
I dont claim to know what the economic impacts of the exp nerf would be, frankly I dont care atm about the economy after all that has happened there
I am not even talking difficulty, or what should be harder/easier either. That discussion is for another thread.
What worries me is people throwing around percentages like they know exactly what effect it would have on the game.
A flat 25% exp nerf could literally force people to bash their face against either mobs, dungeons, or pvp simply because at the massive reduction, you are now left underleveled
What is this underlevel????? You are playing a Dungeons & Dragons product. EXPLORE A LITTLE!!!!!!!
"Hit your head against mobs" .... are you kidding me!?
Hahahahaha, I'm sorry, that's just hilarious. You would barely notice a 25% cut in xp.
I truly believe a 75% readjustment is needed to run the entire storyline, all skirmishes and delves, and do some Foundry. What was/is the point of putting so much marketing muscle behind the Foundry if you can't fit it into your leveling strategy. Even at a 75% cut, it makes a one week ride to 60, a four week ride. Oh my God a whole month to get to end game!
I truly believe a 75% readjustment is needed to run the entire storyline, all skirmishes and delves, and do some Foundry. What was/is the point of putting so much marketing muscle behind the Foundry if you can't fit it into your leveling strategy. Even at a 75% cut, it makes a one week ride to 60, a four week ride. Oh my God a whole month to get to end game!
Agreed.
Sadly some think otherwise and cry foul if the Foundry is anything but content they only know exists by name. There are many players with this stigma that Foundry content can't be a required part of the level curve otherwise Cryptic is using players to fill gaps or Foundry content is bad content when in truth there's a lot of Foundry Content which is far better than the developer content. Read the reviews if you want proof to that claim.
But as more content is released, such as Module 1, I would imagine this will come with additional quests to take part in. Since I already managed to skip content due to the fast level curve it makes me question what will happen to these future quests that Cryptic releases.
This game has so much content but the level curve essentially forces players to skip it. This is the exact opposite of DDO where there very, very limited amounts of content, especially for free players, in which players must complete the same quests over and over again in order to advance.
The other issue becomes that due to the rate of progress items between 1-59 truly become worthless to buy within the auction house. Why buy items before level 60 since levels are gained so quickly that items become outdated within an hour or so of gameplay?
A fast level speed certainly gets players to the great Epic Dungeons faster but it really hinders the experience players can have with the first 59 levels.
What is this underlevel????? You are playing a Dungeons & Dragons product. EXPLORE A LITTLE!!!!!!!
"Hit your head against mobs" .... are you kidding me!?
Hahahahaha, I'm sorry, that's just hilarious. You would barely notice a 25% cut in xp.
I am confused about your title Giant, are you really a moderator on this forum ? if so, imho, you should try to be a bit more diplomatic. I know you are stating and eventually defending opinions here, but nonetheless, I believe moderators should try to remain neutral, if not in their ideas, at least in their expression.
cheers
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
Why not just add a "stop gaining XP" button that you can toggle on and off at will?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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sirwatson8181Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited June 2013
Yeah, that's been thrown into the mix of opinions and options as well.
I don't know if I like that idea, but it would be better than what we have now. You could "turn off" your XP gain right before out-leveling a skirmish, for example, and just grind for loot while you're waiting to queue up for that skirmish. It would work.
But, it feels like a cheap solution to me. It wouldn't really address the core issue, which is that simply too many xp are given out per encounter and per action in this game. It's a Monty Haul operation, if there ever was one. Gary would not be pleased (although I'm pretty sure he was pleased with DDO since he did that one cameo in it).
I guess my order of preference would be, listed from least likely to happen to most practical, to cheesiest, would be:
1. Greatly expand all areas while spreading the xp curve over a much larger gameworld
2. Flat xp gain reduction, slowing down all leveling equally
What is this underlevel????? You are playing a Dungeons & Dragons product. EXPLORE A LITTLE!!!!!!!
"Hit your head against mobs" .... are you kidding me!?
Hahahahaha, I'm sorry, that's just hilarious. You would barely notice a 25% cut in xp.
I truly believe a 75% readjustment is needed to run the entire storyline, all skirmishes and delves, and do some Foundry. What was/is the point of putting so much marketing muscle behind the Foundry if you can't fit it into your leveling strategy. Even at a 75% cut, it makes a one week ride to 60, a four week ride. Oh my God a whole month to get to end game!
Well. You have finally done it. You have said something so outlandish that I have no words to describe how you could possibly think that is a good idea
75%. Jesus christ. If that happens alone with no content added to spread the loss... I will have your quote ready and waiting to post when the wheels come off and all hell breaks loose. I will expect you to do the same with me if you are correct.
The foundry? Really? That is your big smoking gun to pad a cut of 75% exp across the board?
And explore? EXPLORE -WHAT-?!?! There are invisble walls everywhere! Go ahead, open your map on half the zones in this game and look at the fancy pretzel shaped maps. Wanna explore beyond that? TOO BAD. You will go where we lead you with our quests, because everything in our zones must have purpose and enemies, and nobody cares what is beyond that, Bwahahahaha!
I am done with this thread, cause CLEARLY there are large expansive zones with tons of quests I do not know about and am simply not awesome enough understand the lofty concepts being presented. Enjoy, hopefully the devs know better than to implement kneejerk reactions like this, but I doubt it.
I also agree that leveling in this game is much too fast. I find it amusing that although the OP appears to be quite vociferous against an XP nerf, she was nevertheless the one plenty concerned about the excessive amounts of XP gains that she began this thread.
First of all, XP gain through invoking should be absolutely eliminated. If the Devs insist on offering XP through invoking then it should be drastically reduced by a lot. Either way, if the Devs do not find a way to slow down XP gains, they should at least offer an "XP Off" toggle so that we can toggle off the XP when we begin outleveling content which is definitely not a question of "if" but "when" we begin outleveling content. Currently, leveling in this game is a blurr. And that is no fun.
I actually think side-kicking combined with a dynamic XP nerf would be a good idea. What I mean by this is that you are scaled *down* to the maximum level for content areas (but never scaled up in PvE, except perhaps in limited time event content), and you also receive an accompanying scaling down of XP rewards while completing this content. Treasure rewards on the other hand should remain appropriate for your real level at all times, or appropriate for the lowest level in the party while partied. Individual rewards such as chests should remain appropriate to your real level at all times even in a party.
This encourages higher level players to assist low-level players with content by rewarding them with appropriate gear, but no XP if the content is significantly lower than their current level. It also means content is slightly easier for these players due to their better gear, but not a walk in the park since they are otherwise down-scaled. It also allows players to satisfyingly complete ALL content for story and completion purposes if desired.
I also think XP from Invocation (and Leadership for that matter) should be eliminated completely as it does not add anything to the game's content.
TL;DR - GW2 did dynamic level adjustment pretty well IMO.
I am confused about your title Giant, are you really a moderator on this forum ? if so, imho, you should try to be a bit more diplomatic. I know you are stating and eventually defending opinions here, but nonetheless, I believe moderators should try to remain neutral, if not in their ideas, at least in their expression.
cheers
I agree a bit. Should not a moderator be a bit calmer in discussions with other forumites? It comes across like yelling and browbeating. I can kind of understand why those of us with merely "PWE User" can expect less treatment, but pizzamurai has "Hero of the North". She shelled an amount of money for virtual assets equal to about half of what I budget for groceries for a month, she is at least due virtual courtesy. She has been fairly respectful from what I have seen, passionate yes, but still respectful.
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Edit note: I've faithfully followed every quest and encountered every mob between start and objective. I'm starting to see a point where I am 1 to 3 levels lower than the mobs. At a 75% reduction, there is going to be a grind, and in areas that see a lot of traffic it is going to be tough. I'm not going to do PvP, but I suppose I can try Foundry content again. I've had horrible luck with that unfortunately.
I agree a bit. Should not a moderator be a bit calmer in discussions with other forumites? It comes across like yelling and browbeating. I can kind of understand why those of use with merely "PWE User" can expect less treatment, but pizzamurai has "Hero of the North". She shelled an amount of money for virtual assets equal to about half of what I budget for groceries for a month, she is at least due virtual courtesy. She has been fairly respectful from what I have seen, passionate yes, but still respectful.
Never doubt Aandre. Total respect for Pizzamurai. In fact we just had a good laugh on pm.
I am neutral 98% of the time. Thankfully, Cryptic allows us to have our own opinions, which on occasion we have. On rare occasion, we may even feel strongly about our opinion.
Yes Pizza and I were a bit over the top. But its ok to have discussions, even passionate ones, as long as their is mutual respect and we aren't attacking each other.
I will take people at their word when they say they are under leveled for some areas, but I can't see how that happens.
This is my experience thus far.
Did the quest lines, Invoked, and a bit of Leadership crafting.
Participated in 1 Skirmish, Tower District, after that I had already outleveled them.
Played 3 Foundry missions, want to play more, but tried to avoid overleveling my main by not doing them.
Completed 2 Dungeons, have since done 3 more, manually entered, outleveled the queue after the second one.
Was at 60th level before finishing Spellplague Chasm.
Stopped getting Quests halfway thru Icespire Peak, because I outleveled the content.
Avoided any unnecessary killing at the beginning of the Chasm, so that wouldn't happen again. Fortunately it won't because 60s can do that content.
I know some people just want to get 60 as fast as possible, to play end game content and nothing else. I don't understand it, but I know you are out there.
The way look at it is we both want to get to the same place, but you would rather fly while I drive. I drive so I can get out, look at things, maybe let the wife hit an antiques shop along the way. The problem is somebody put a jet engine in my car, and took out the brakes. I wind up getting there just as fast, defeating the whole reason why I drove.(Yes, I realize with current security measures I can drive in reverse and still get there before you board the plane)
I am all for removing Invocation, and Leadership XP. Throttle back the quest XP somewhat. Make the XP booster pack available for purchase from the Consumables Merchants for say 50cp. That way the speed demons can zoom along with minimal play time, and the rest of us can enjoy the ride.
Comments
Yep. 10char
Sorry, but I have not seen any of that. Several zones I ran circles around baffled because I thought there HAD to be more quests
But there were not. Unless cryptic is physically blocking my account from quest lines, I simply have not seen what you are apparently seeing lol. I did exactly what you are saying you did right up till 60.
Cryptic should add an option so that you can disable experience then you can disable or enable it any time you want to continue through the game.
Then it is literally what I explained. Youre running around looking for more quest NPCs. The new quests are only givin to you after you ran the first ones the quest NPCs already gave you. So running around looking for more quests will not help you. You have to take the quests given to you by the NPCs that are there, complete those, then you unlock more, from the same NPCs.
This is exactly what I explained in my last post.
That he had to run around multiple zones actually looking for quests to do and somehow was UNDERleveled for many of them is incredible to me. I'm by no means a hardcore MMO player but I absolutely breezed through Neverwinter's content, gobbling down XP in a feeding frenzy and the whole time thinking to myself, "This is way too easy. I hope this progression slows down." It didn't, and here I am staring 60 in the face.
Then again, however, with a game that puts a magical little shiny quest trail ahead of you (which I immediately disabled in horror once I started the game) I guess it's to be expected that its leveling is intentionally fast.
It's too bad, because the visual fidelity of this game and its core combat mechanics are good enough to deserve a much larger stage. If the game world were stretched to be about ten times its current size I think the impact it has and will have on the gaming community and in gaming history would have been much greater. As it is, it may merely remain a small blip on the radar.
i would simply prefer the option to turn xp gain off if i start outleveling storyline quests.
Here is a list of all the quests, I have been using this to insure that I see all content...
P.S. In fear of getting too much xp, I also do not kill any mobs in zones unless I absolutely have to, and really that is not very fun:)
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/List_of_quests
This.
Levelling was way too fast for me considering the lack of anything much to do at 60. Everything gives xp from praying to crafting to foundry, quests, skirmishes dungeons. A simple xp on/off toggle would keep both sides of the fence happy.
I fully agree with this. There is no reason to get a couple of thousands XP from pressing Ctrl-I. That's equal to a couple of quests right there. Furthermore, I'd lose the XP from the Leadership profession. This skill already generates AD. No need to add XP as well when other professions only generate one kind of "item." I could also see the ability to turn XP off individually and it should be an easy thing to code.
I understand why there is an objection to a blanket nerf of XP. Playing the game as a completionist, I began outleveling areas in probably the 20s. I had slowed my progression enough that I may only be 2 or so levels above where I should be but I had not run PvP, Foundry, Skirmish, or Dungeon in a few days. Yesterday, I did do a Skirmish and Foundry as well as regular questing, Leadership crafting, and invoking and once again, I believe I'm about 4 levels higher than my current area dictates. It's clear to me that there is plenty of XP to be had in questing alone to keep an appropriate level, but a blanket nerf can't account for the person who does nothing but questing, or foundry, or PvP, or crafting and invoking. It's better to selectively nerf portions of the game and add a "turn off XP" toggle. Removing XP from invoking and Leadership won't affect people who concentrate on those areas much at all. I can't imagine anyone doing ONLY those two things in the game to gain XP. If they were, they wouldn't be having much fun...
You are glossing over the fact that I stated every zone I went to was 100% completed by the time I left them. That you are suggesting that I somehow missed entire quest chains sounds very very silly to me, you have to understand this. If what you are saying is true, then someone, somewhere should still have a quest for me in that zone. They, in fact, do not. So no, it is not what you are describing. I made very sure to not miss any quests.
Cryptic designed the system to require 60 hours of gameplay or so to reach level 60. I think it's far less than that which alone is a problem. I think it might be closer to 30-40 Hours in some cases which is just far, far too quickly.
120 Hours to reach level 60 is ideal IMO. Other systems should be taken into account as well but right now the levels just come to fast. There's no "Yeah I'm level 60!" moment because although it does take time it comes so very, very easily. I remember going from level 50-60 within 6 hours on my cleric and that's just too fast.
On top of that out-leveling content after the Tower District is beyond easy. If you ask most people they ended up completely skipping a zone somewhere along the way.
I actually skipped half The Chasm, all of Icespire Peak and The Whispering Caverns and still reach level 60 without doing more than a handful of Foundry quests. While it's fine to say you want it to be fast that's something which is obviously a bit problematic.
Thank you. I figured there were about 15 per zone but had not thought to count while doing them
Now, now, let’s not try to make fun of the OP’s eyesight. She doesn’t come to VoTech and make fun of you now does she?
I have seen the phenomenon of being under-leveled as well. Following the sparkle trail of the quest fairies and found myself in Blackdagger with yet another glowy trail that led to some bandits. Not too worrying, in fact at this point there was only a single bandit there and not even a boss. It was as if someone had happened by and murdered the group save for one and left him as a message.
So needing the contents of said bandits pocket I jumped on him with much abandon and after about a minute I wondered why he was taking so little damage. He really didn’t have a chance of hurting me but he was just tough as nails. That’s when I noticed that he was four levels higher than me.
In following the line of quests set out by the game I had found myself in a dangerous disparity with the mobs of the zone. Had there been a full encounter there, even my cleric could not have saved me from the vicious and quick beatdown to follow.
Minion1 – Who was that?
Minion2 – I dunno, maybe he was delivering something?
Minion3 – Did anyone check his pockets?
Minion1 - …
Minion2 - …
Minion3 – See this is why we are Minions.
Luckily I had plenty of Foundry content to work out on and eventually I was an appropriate level to go back and restart my campaign of minion menace and materialism. But this is definitely a paradigm and likely has something to do with individual quest tuning.
It is interesting to note that everything is going just fine so long as the devs have everything scripted but as soon as we step off the tutorial bus the wheels come right off.
How do all those other games avoid this problem? Surely there are some forums the devs can peruse to figure this out?
She, and there is nothing wrong with my eyesight, thank you. As I said, I did the running around and checking once I realized the mobs in the area were 2 levels above me and I was confused, because I was very certain I had done every quest available up until that point. It was the only time in my entire play experience that I was ever off level from the zone I was in. Have not solely leveled with questing either, since I already experienced it.
I never said it was difficult, I was a rogue after all. Just that I didnt notice it till they were 2 above me and it actually felt hard :P
While I agree with you that it would be ideal having "much bigger zones" and spreading levels out across them, it's still wishful thinking. Your so-called "exp nerf" is more realistic and is something that can be done easily and quickly, despite your claims of it resulting in something breaking.
Explain to me what would break if you disagree. You think the game would lose players in droves, merely for requiring them to spend a little more time in each adventuring area instead of them only being passing brief memories? Do you recall a lot of the details from the devil area, for example? I sure don't. Breezed through it much too quickly despite the fact it was plagued with pit fiends. Pit fiends!! Too many players bottlenecking a particular zone? That's possible, seeing as how many of the zones are so small and restrictive, but there are always more instances. Not enough income coming through from the hardcores reaching level 60 at breakneck speed (which there will always be, regardless of xp tuning)? I actually think Zen income would go up as a result of slowing the game's progression down. More and more players would be itching to buff their equipment to be able to reach the next zone quicker (by being able to kill more efficiently/quickly). As it is now you literally don't need to spend any AD or Zen at all in order to progress. Drop rate would be the only other thing I can think of that would need to be tweaked along with an XP gain adjustment so that players aren't swimming in green equipment all the time.
All I've ever called for is a mild adjustment. Slow it down by 20%. Give us some time to actually learn the zones a little before Sergeant What's-his-name is telling us to move on. Make us want to replay those dungeons for the xp and loot gains. Make us want to participate in the skirmishes before realizing, literally, that we skipped them without knowing they were available at that last level that we rofl'd our ways through. Players that *don't* want to repeat dungeons or skirmishes and who would rather reach cap as quickly as possible will be disappointed, but from what I can tell from these two threads regarding this subject they're in the minority.
I'm pretty sure the last thing you want in a new MMO is having the entirety of your playerbase capping out within a few weeks or even months of release. That's bad.
I dont claim to know what the economic impacts of the exp nerf would be, frankly I dont care atm about the economy after all that has happened there
I am not even talking difficulty, or what should be harder/easier either. That discussion is for another thread.
What worries me is people throwing around percentages like they know exactly what effect it would have on the game.
A flat 25% exp nerf could literally force people to bash their face against either mobs, dungeons, or pvp simply because at the massive reduction, you are now left underleveled at the end of each zone unless you take part in the other aspects of the game is so very wrong. Its like if they made an endgame dungeon and forces people to pvp. Oh, wait.
Point is, this is not something that can be taken lightly, and it sure as hell is not something that can be solved by flat exp nerfs across the board all willy nilly. Before they do anything they need to add sidekicking, and perhaps this "real" lfg/lfm that people keep mentioning as well.
What is this underlevel????? You are playing a Dungeons & Dragons product. EXPLORE A LITTLE!!!!!!!
"Hit your head against mobs" .... are you kidding me!?
Hahahahaha, I'm sorry, that's just hilarious. You would barely notice a 25% cut in xp.
I truly believe a 75% readjustment is needed to run the entire storyline, all skirmishes and delves, and do some Foundry. What was/is the point of putting so much marketing muscle behind the Foundry if you can't fit it into your leveling strategy. Even at a 75% cut, it makes a one week ride to 60, a four week ride. Oh my God a whole month to get to end game!
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At level 90 each mob gives you 0.01%, and it is even slower past that.
Level 98 to 99 you need all the exp from lvl 1 to 98. Very hardcore lol.
Agreed.
Sadly some think otherwise and cry foul if the Foundry is anything but content they only know exists by name. There are many players with this stigma that Foundry content can't be a required part of the level curve otherwise Cryptic is using players to fill gaps or Foundry content is bad content when in truth there's a lot of Foundry Content which is far better than the developer content. Read the reviews if you want proof to that claim.
But as more content is released, such as Module 1, I would imagine this will come with additional quests to take part in. Since I already managed to skip content due to the fast level curve it makes me question what will happen to these future quests that Cryptic releases.
This game has so much content but the level curve essentially forces players to skip it. This is the exact opposite of DDO where there very, very limited amounts of content, especially for free players, in which players must complete the same quests over and over again in order to advance.
The other issue becomes that due to the rate of progress items between 1-59 truly become worthless to buy within the auction house. Why buy items before level 60 since levels are gained so quickly that items become outdated within an hour or so of gameplay?
A fast level speed certainly gets players to the great Epic Dungeons faster but it really hinders the experience players can have with the first 59 levels.
I am confused about your title Giant, are you really a moderator on this forum ? if so, imho, you should try to be a bit more diplomatic. I know you are stating and eventually defending opinions here, but nonetheless, I believe moderators should try to remain neutral, if not in their ideas, at least in their expression.
cheers
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I don't know if I like that idea, but it would be better than what we have now. You could "turn off" your XP gain right before out-leveling a skirmish, for example, and just grind for loot while you're waiting to queue up for that skirmish. It would work.
But, it feels like a cheap solution to me. It wouldn't really address the core issue, which is that simply too many xp are given out per encounter and per action in this game. It's a Monty Haul operation, if there ever was one. Gary would not be pleased (although I'm pretty sure he was pleased with DDO since he did that one cameo in it).
I guess my order of preference would be, listed from least likely to happen to most practical, to cheesiest, would be:
1. Greatly expand all areas while spreading the xp curve over a much larger gameworld
2. Flat xp gain reduction, slowing down all leveling equally
3. An "off" switch for xp
Somehow, I doubt we'll get any of those.
75%. Jesus christ. If that happens alone with no content added to spread the loss... I will have your quote ready and waiting to post when the wheels come off and all hell breaks loose. I will expect you to do the same with me if you are correct.
The foundry? Really? That is your big smoking gun to pad a cut of 75% exp across the board?
And explore? EXPLORE -WHAT-?!?! There are invisble walls everywhere! Go ahead, open your map on half the zones in this game and look at the fancy pretzel shaped maps. Wanna explore beyond that? TOO BAD. You will go where we lead you with our quests, because everything in our zones must have purpose and enemies, and nobody cares what is beyond that, Bwahahahaha!
I am done with this thread, cause CLEARLY there are large expansive zones with tons of quests I do not know about and am simply not awesome enough understand the lofty concepts being presented. Enjoy, hopefully the devs know better than to implement kneejerk reactions like this, but I doubt it.
First of all, XP gain through invoking should be absolutely eliminated. If the Devs insist on offering XP through invoking then it should be drastically reduced by a lot. Either way, if the Devs do not find a way to slow down XP gains, they should at least offer an "XP Off" toggle so that we can toggle off the XP when we begin outleveling content which is definitely not a question of "if" but "when" we begin outleveling content. Currently, leveling in this game is a blurr. And that is no fun.
This encourages higher level players to assist low-level players with content by rewarding them with appropriate gear, but no XP if the content is significantly lower than their current level. It also means content is slightly easier for these players due to their better gear, but not a walk in the park since they are otherwise down-scaled. It also allows players to satisfyingly complete ALL content for story and completion purposes if desired.
I also think XP from Invocation (and Leadership for that matter) should be eliminated completely as it does not add anything to the game's content.
TL;DR - GW2 did dynamic level adjustment pretty well IMO.
I agree a bit. Should not a moderator be a bit calmer in discussions with other forumites? It comes across like yelling and browbeating. I can kind of understand why those of us with merely "PWE User" can expect less treatment, but pizzamurai has "Hero of the North". She shelled an amount of money for virtual assets equal to about half of what I budget for groceries for a month, she is at least due virtual courtesy. She has been fairly respectful from what I have seen, passionate yes, but still respectful.
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Edit note: I've faithfully followed every quest and encountered every mob between start and objective. I'm starting to see a point where I am 1 to 3 levels lower than the mobs. At a 75% reduction, there is going to be a grind, and in areas that see a lot of traffic it is going to be tough. I'm not going to do PvP, but I suppose I can try Foundry content again. I've had horrible luck with that unfortunately.
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Never doubt Aandre. Total respect for Pizzamurai. In fact we just had a good laugh on pm.
I am neutral 98% of the time. Thankfully, Cryptic allows us to have our own opinions, which on occasion we have. On rare occasion, we may even feel strongly about our opinion.
Yes Pizza and I were a bit over the top. But its ok to have discussions, even passionate ones, as long as their is mutual respect and we aren't attacking each other.
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I will take people at their word when they say they are under leveled for some areas, but I can't see how that happens.
This is my experience thus far.
Did the quest lines, Invoked, and a bit of Leadership crafting.
Participated in 1 Skirmish, Tower District, after that I had already outleveled them.
Played 3 Foundry missions, want to play more, but tried to avoid overleveling my main by not doing them.
Completed 2 Dungeons, have since done 3 more, manually entered, outleveled the queue after the second one.
Was at 60th level before finishing Spellplague Chasm.
Stopped getting Quests halfway thru Icespire Peak, because I outleveled the content.
Avoided any unnecessary killing at the beginning of the Chasm, so that wouldn't happen again. Fortunately it won't because 60s can do that content.
I know some people just want to get 60 as fast as possible, to play end game content and nothing else. I don't understand it, but I know you are out there.
The way look at it is we both want to get to the same place, but you would rather fly while I drive. I drive so I can get out, look at things, maybe let the wife hit an antiques shop along the way. The problem is somebody put a jet engine in my car, and took out the brakes. I wind up getting there just as fast, defeating the whole reason why I drove.(Yes, I realize with current security measures I can drive in reverse and still get there before you board the plane)
I am all for removing Invocation, and Leadership XP. Throttle back the quest XP somewhat. Make the XP booster pack available for purchase from the Consumables Merchants for say 50cp. That way the speed demons can zoom along with minimal play time, and the rest of us can enjoy the ride.
My 0.1