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((T2)) Thaumaturge Spec/Powers/Role

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  • threeravensthreeravens Member Posts: 50
    edited July 2013
    jzlim5888 wrote: »
    evocation affects tabbed chilling strike too I thought

    Yes it does.
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Evocation = +15% damage to shield pulse and steal time.
    Chilling presence = +3~18% damage to all spells. Combination of IT and CoI provides a lot of chill stacks.

    The new patch on the test server might improve Evocation considerably. Not sure yet, but even so, Shield Pulse and Steal Time (and occasionally, tabbed Chill Strike) have always comprised a large chunk of a CW's AoE damage in PvE. On first blush, you think, "Evocation only affects three powers?!? What a disappointment!"

    But given that characters in this game can only slot four powers total, and given that Steal Time and Shield are basically no-brainer choices for two of those slots, I suspect that Evocation was never quite as bad as it was reputed to be. Ditto Focused Wizardry and Wizard's Wrath.

    A CW with the two feats and Evocation will deliver 1.06 * 1.09 * 1.15 = 1.328, or 132.8% damage on Shield pulse and Steal Time. (Assuming I've got the stacking bonuses right; that's one of about a bajillion things I have to test definitively.) And after the patch, we may see that same 32.8% damage bonus apply to many more powers.
  • tuuserailtuuserail Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Thanks for the replies, clears a lot of things :)
  • jzlim5888jzlim5888 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    copticone,

    may I ask do I need to change any feats from the upcoming patch? because im respect-ing soon. but I don't wanna do it twice. hope to hear from you soon.
  • kerrovitarrakerrovitarra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 559 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    pfft2 wrote: »
    The new patch on the test server might improve Evocation considerably. Not sure yet, but even so, Shield
    A CW with the two feats and Evocation will deliver 1.06 * 1.09 * 1.15 = 1.328, or 132.8% damage on Shield pulse and Steal Time. (Assuming I've got the stacking bonuses right; that's one of about a bajillion things I have to test definitively.) And after the patch, we may see that same 32.8% damage bonus apply to many more powers.
    You sure, that it will be applied to many more powers? I'm not.
    BTW, not all take +9% AoE damage from focused wizardry, cause of +5% to all damage is sometimes better.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jzlim5888 wrote: »
    copticone,

    may I ask do I need to change any feats from the upcoming patch? because im respect-ing soon. but I don't wanna do it twice. hope to hear from you soon.

    I would recommend respeccing on the test server first and testing things out. If you see a big difference, then do it on live. The bigger question is, can you handle more threat? I personally am not looking for more dps. I can barely manage aggro atm and that's with 1500 lifesteal. Just remember, that every teleport is a dps loss. So if you respec for more damage but end up teleporting more often because of increased aggro, then you really didn't do anything. This applies more so for AoE damage than Single target.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You sure, that it will be applied to many more powers? I'm not.
    BTW, not all take +9% AoE damage from focused wizardry, cause of +5% to all damage is sometimes better.

    1. I said I wasn't sure. The patch notes suggest that it will be, but I don't have 100% confidence.

    2. Focused Wizardry and Learned Spellcaster aren't mutually exclusive. I didn't argue that most people currently take Focused Wizardry. I argued that it's a pretty good feat, and probably getting much better post-patch.

    We'll see how much better. After I downloaded the test-server patch last night, I found that the test server was still down.
  • jzlim5888jzlim5888 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    I would recommend respeccing on the test server first and testing things out. If you see a big difference, then do it on live. The bigger question is, can you handle more threat? I personally am not looking for more dps. I can barely manage aggro atm and that's with 1500 lifesteal. Just remember, that every teleport is a dps loss. So if you respec for more damage but end up teleporting more often because of increased aggro, then you really didn't do anything. This applies more so for AoE damage than Single target.

    erm I would like to ask a question here. this build damage outputs mainly are from Shield and Steal Time OR CoI and Icy Terrain(chill stacks). thanks appreciate it.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jzlim5888 wrote: »
    erm I would like to ask a question here. this build damage outputs mainly are from Shield and Steal Time OR CoI and Icy Terrain(chill stacks). thanks appreciate it.

    It's an AoE with a focus on Chill. Chill Stacks/debuffing/damage buffing through Chilling Cloud.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • jzlim5888jzlim5888 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    after buffing through Chilling Cloud, do u somehow use M.M. in between those 8secs or do u just use Chilling cloud all the time during fights.
  • jzlim5888jzlim5888 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    I don't slot MM at all.

    I see that you're Chilling C all the way as At-Will?

    Also have you ever thought about removing 1 feat from Fight On and 1 feat from Arcane for
    Learned Spellcaster ?just wanna hear some opinions.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jzlim5888 wrote: »
    I see that you're Chilling C all the way as At-Will?

    Also have you ever thought about removing 1 feat from Fight On and 1 feat from Arcane for
    Learned Spellcaster ?just wanna hear some opinions.

    What I posted in the OP is what I had feated at the time I wrote it. I have since respec'd 3 times and changing things a little to experiment. I don't want to tell people exactly what to do in the Heroic feats. It's better to keep a discussion on what is working and how it is working, then have people make their own decisions on what appeals more to them. The end result won't change much.
    That said, I currently have 5/5 Learned Spellcaster.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • tuuserailtuuserail Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    What I posted in the OP is what I had feated at the time I wrote it. I have since respec'd 3 times and changing things a little to experiment. I don't want to tell people exactly what to do in the Heroic feats. It's better to keep a discussion on what is working and how it is working, then have people make their own decisions on what appeals more to them. The end result won't change much.
    That said, I currently have 5/5 Learned Spellcaster.

    While that is your prerogative, I respectfully disagree with your logic. While it's true that people should do whatever they want based on their preference and playstyle, this thread is not about that.

    It's better if you pointed out your 'latest' setup on the OP based on this (your) build than leaving it up to players to skim through 35 pages of this thread just to know what's up to date and what isn't. You can never be able to "tell" anyone how to build their character, no one could, at least in the context of class build threads because it's quite simple, one's char is one's char, a player is responsible for his/her own character build, whether I want to follow your, Xira's, runicfi's build or putting certain modifications into one of them to suit my playstyle is up to me, and there's nothing you can do about it.

    A class build thread should always be a baseline comparison to how the skillset (powers, feats, attributes, gear, etc.) is setup, regardless of other players perspective about which one's right and/or which part's he/she doesn't like. People, especially newer players or older players who might not have the time to read all 35 pages should know that the OP is what the latest setup of this build looks like.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    tuuserail wrote: »
    While that is your prerogative, I respectfully disagree with your logic. While it's true that people should do whatever they want based on their preference and playstyle, this thread is not about that.

    It's better if you pointed out your 'latest' setup on the OP based on this (your) build than leaving it up to players to skim through 35 pages of this thread just to know what's up to date and what isn't. You can never be able to "tell" anyone how to build their character, no one could, at least in the context of class build threads because it's quite simple, one's char is one's char, a player is responsible for his/her own character build, whether I want to follow your, Xira's, runicfi's build or putting certain modifications into one of them to suit my playstyle is up to me, and there's nothing you can do about it.

    A class build thread should always be a baseline comparison to how the skillset (powers, feats, attributes, gear, etc.) is setup, regardless of other players perspective about which one's right and/or which part's he/she doesn't like. People, especially newer players or older players who might not have the time to read all 35 pages should know that the OP is what the latest setup of this build looks like.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Not sure what prompted this defensive tone, but I also respectfully disagree. This is the WHOLE point of a "thread". If you are interested in its subject matter, you should sift through it, all 35pages+ of it. There are many good questions that have been asked and answered, not just by me but also others. I can't possibly keep updating the OP for everything. I don't have a claim over this thread beyond the OP and any replies I personally post. Anyone is welcome to add, criticize, or answer questions based on their experience.

    You missed the point of what I said above. I was only referring to the Heroic feats, because they are just that, personal preference. Not only did I respec and juggled points in there at least three times since I wrote the OP, but I also keep testing different Powers and Passives. What I suggest in the OP is perfectly viable. Hec it even maybe more viable now than it was over a month ago because of the new changes.

    Things change all the time. Cryptic changes things all the time, even stealthily. My personal preference changes all the time. I can't and I won't keep updating an OP after every patch or based on how I feel that morning. I think there is PLENTY of good info, in this thread as well as other threads, for anyone to make good and informative decisions about their Heroic Feat choices.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • b00stzb00stz Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Howdy,

    I made a CW using a similar build and got a high vizier set to boost some defense while i get up and personal. I noticed with the armor, I have a meager ~790 crit and 34 arm pen. Just wondering what sort of enchants you guys are running, or are you getting the boost via stat augmenting pets?

    Great build, tons of control. Entangle tab gives more than enough AP when you want to Single spam.
  • tuuserailtuuserail Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Not sure what prompted this defensive tone, but I also respectfully disagree. This is the WHOLE point of a "thread". If you are interested in its subject matter, you should sift through it, all 35pages+ of it. There are many good questions that have been asked and answered, not just by me but also others. I can't possibly keep updating the OP for everything. I don't have a claim over this thread beyond the OP and any replies I personally post. Anyone is welcome to add, criticize, or answer questions based on their experience.

    You missed the point of what I said above. I was only referring to the Heroic feats, because they are just that, personal preference. Not only did I respec and juggled points in there at least three times since I wrote the OP, but I also keep testing different Powers and Passives. What I suggest in the OP is perfectly viable. Hec it even maybe more viable now than it was over a month ago because of the new changes.

    Things change all the time. Cryptic changes things all the time, even stealthily. My personal preference changes all the time. I can't and I won't keep updating an OP after every patch or based on how I feel that morning. I think there is PLENTY of good info, in this thread as well as other threads, for anyone to make good and informative decisions about their Heroic Feat choices.

    I wasn't being defensive (not sure what to be defensive about tbh), was merely giving my point of view on things. I apologize if it came out wrong.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gotta, do people really copy some other wizard's spec feat for feat? I think what copticone is trying to say is that he himself is torn between certain feats. In some cases you cannot go wrong going either way.

    For example i had 5/5 learned spellcaster (gives near 6% since its effected by int). However been using prestigitation, 3% stats for the whole party is also great. (+2 points in learned). everytime i respec i always change it back and forth because its so hard to figure out which i like more, some personal damage or party gain (prestige has no range limit).

    im sure with the new aoe changes theres gonna be even more heroic feat choices.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    b00stz wrote: »
    I made a CW using a similar build and got a high vizier set to boost some defense while i get up and personal. I noticed with the armor, I have a meager ~790 crit and 34 arm pen. Just wondering what sort of enchants you guys are running, or are you getting the boost via stat augmenting pets?
    I started with minor rings, neck and belt with Silvery enchants (Recovery) in it, and I'm going to change them to grand rings, ancient neck and a Blue belt (because of the offensive slot it has) with Dark enchants. I used rank 6 enchants so far and going to switch to rank 7 till I get ancient rings & neck, where I'm going to drop rank 8+ enchants into. I also use Eldritch runestones on my Ion stone & am going to use Dark enchants for the equipment of the runestone as well. For the main and off-hand item, I'll use Azure enchantments (Critical Strike).

    That should give me (if my calculations are correct), around 1,800 Critical Strike, 2,300 Armor Penetration and 2,700 Recovery and should be sufficient for the T1 and T2 Dungeons, in my opinion.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    grimah wrote: »
    gotta, do people really copy some other wizard's spec feat for feat? I think what copticone is trying to say is that he himself is torn between certain feats. In some cases you cannot go wrong going either way.
    I can only speak about how I do stuff, but maybe that will shed some light on the issue :rolleyes:

    As I don't have that much of time to play (about 2-4 hours a day at most), but I currently have plenty of time to read. I did read a lot of personal build informations (aka guides) and decided by gut, which to choose as a base to start from.

    So, in some sort of way, yeah, I copied another wizard's spec feat for feat and followed it--so far :cool:

    But, of course, you're right, anyone needs to experience and experiment with the powers and feats in order to a) know how the powers actually do work--especially in what situations to which in what order--and, b) to gain knowledge about how things work and why. Without those, one will never be able to evolve.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    b00stz wrote: »
    Howdy,

    I made a CW using a similar build and got a high vizier set to boost some defense while i get up and personal. I noticed with the armor, I have a meager ~790 crit and 34 arm pen. Just wondering what sort of enchants you guys are running, or are you getting the boost via stat augmenting pets?

    Great build, tons of control. Entangle tab gives more than enough AP when you want to Single spam.

    Cat/Stone can easily give you 3000+ stats. So yes some stats would be very hard to get without these pets. Also getting one of them is actually cheaper than enchanting with rank7+. I think every class should get either a cat or stone before they spend AD on anything else.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    My build is basically the same idea, though I occasionally change my setup. Most recently I decided to relegate CoI back to a standard encounter slot and put CS in Tab for dungeon DPS while using Evocation as my other class feature (Storm Spell always on), and I've been pleased with the damage output.

    I'm questioning the benefit I get from Chilling Presence because chill stacks constantly fluctuate as mobs freeze, shatter, and start from stack 0 again. Honestly not sure which is providing the best benefit, but they might just be close enough in effectiveness that it's hard to quantify the difference without actually parsing the combat data (which I admit I have been too lazy to do up to this point).

    Eye of the Storm gives me headaches when I run with Icy Terrain, which is almost always in my current build. It performs very unpredictably for me in that I experience that bug where Icy Terrain will appear to proc EotS without granting you the buff, and it sometimes will just fail to trigger for minutes at a time.

    Final thought: with the fixes to CW feats and some power behaviors, Sudden Storm is actually beginning to look attractive. In the live version of the game I avoid it like the plague, but on Preview Shard its damage is no longer lower than what its tooltip states, and it now crits properly. It seems like potentially excellent damage with its low cooldown, but I'm trying to practice on Preview and see if I can train myself not to be annoyed by the slight activation delay and relatively long casting animation.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • ragulolragulol Member Posts: 31
    edited July 2013
    vorphied wrote: »
    Final thought: with the fixes to CW feats and some power behaviors, Sudden Storm is actually beginning to look attractive. In the live version of the game I avoid it like the plague, but on Preview Shard its damage is no longer lower than what its tooltip states, and it now crits properly. It seems like potentially excellent damage with its low cooldown, but I'm trying to practice on Preview and see if I can train myself not to be annoyed by the slight activation delay and relatively long casting animation.
    that is strange... i tested yesterday myself to see if the sudden storm and shard got fixed, but i found out that it actually CAN show you orange crit numbers BUT without actually increasing damage...
    SS hits around 5k+, with nigtmare like 6.5k+ all the time, not depending it is crit or non-crit, if it could crit and cause crit-dot on TAB i think it would be a nice spell that could replace chill strike sometimes
    shard damage is even lower, like 3k on hit and 4.5 on explosion, it is just bad

    i will do more testing today, but im pretty sure in what i saw, maybe it was some another bug tho

    PS. icy terrain actually crits AND increases damage on crits, maelstorm does not. At least something getting fixed
  • foolloowfoolloow Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hi Copt, which T1 set will be best for me if i can't afford T2 yet?
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ragulol wrote: »
    that is strange... i tested yesterday myself to see if the sudden storm and shard got fixed, but i found out that it actually CAN show you orange crit numbers BUT without actually increasing damage...
    SS hits around 5k+, with nigtmare like 6.5k+ all the time, not depending it is crit or non-crit, if it could crit and cause crit-dot on TAB i think it would be a nice spell that could replace chill strike sometimes
    shard damage is even lower, like 3k on hit and 4.5 on explosion, it is just bad

    i will do more testing today, but im pretty sure in what i saw, maybe it was some another bug tho

    PS. icy terrain actually crits AND increases damage on crits, maelstorm does not. At least something getting fixed

    I was definitely getting critical severity from SS crits, so it appeared to be working fine for me. Crits of easily 9-11k+ depending on how many debuffs I was throwing out.

    I always want to like Shard, and it has some utility with the AoE damage + AoE Prone, but I keep leaving it on the bench because of the lengthy windup and cooldown. Not to mention your big bang is wasted if other players or the mobs themselves decide to jump around at the last moment and ruin your perfect bowling alley.

    And yes, I'm glad for Icy Terrain working more or less. Unfortunate that it still doesn't work perfectly with EotS, but at least it enjoys the benefit if you proc EotS before casting it.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    foolloow wrote: »
    Hi Copt, which T1 set will be best for me if i can't afford T2 yet?

    At T1 it is just a matter of boosting your important stats and GS score to get into T2s. So my recommendation is 2pc Focal + 2pc PvP Gladiator.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • exarkun007exarkun007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 113 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Get 25K. Go to the AH. Buy yourself a t2 gearscore :)
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    exarkun007 wrote: »
    Get 25K. Go to the AH. Buy yourself a t2 gearscore :)

    Definitely, but I am saying 2pc focal + 2pc gladiator because that's 800 stats that are perfect for a CW. And for someone just turning 60, will be far from worrying about diminishing returns so will make very good use of these bonuses.

    More importantly, getting a Cat or Stone should be the number 1 priority if cost is the issue. If you have the option between getting a full T2set + Ancient main+offhand AND a cat/stone....get the pet.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Definitely, but I am saying 2pc focal + 2pc gladiator because that's 800 stats that are perfect for a CW. And for someone just turning 60, will be far from worrying about diminishing returns so will make very good use of these bonuses.

    More importantly, getting a Cat or Stone should be the number 1 priority if cost is the issue. If you have the option between getting a full T2set + Ancient main+offhand AND a cat/stone....get the pet.

    Agreed with the pet, but I gotta plug the 4-piece Archmage set as starter equipment. Your stats won't be as good with Archmage as they would with mixed sets, but you get to spam encounters like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's seriously hilarious, and seriously fun.

    And it's dirt cheap. Or was, last I checked on Beholder.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    TBH, I never tried the archmage set. I may just get one for experimenting.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • sac1987sac1987 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hi my brother has started playing CW and is unsure on his build but knows he wants to go aoe frosty to witch i read your guide it seems easy enuth to learn and all that but after reading i do have a few questions but before that here is my power/feat build i recomended to him if you think that it needs changed please tell me where so i can provide them too him.

    1. in your spell rotation at the top you list powers as Conduit of Ice (On Mastery) - Icy Terrain -Steal Time -Shield how do you get a 4th spell on your bar as far as im aware you can only have 3 powers on the bar if theres a way round this can you share please?

    2. in your rotation pve/pvp would you recomend the same skill lineup and what rotation would you use if you dont also what dailys do you recomend for dungeons and pvp (i like the ice daily that does KB such a pain to beat CW on GWF.

    3.when killing a sub boss or boss solo what rotation would you recomend for him.

    4.Compainion is he best going for cleric untill he has AD for cat or idel (i suggested this as the dps one's suck and my friend has a tank and says its poo i also have a cleric on my gwf and its heals are not that bad tbh)


    anyway if you would enlighten me for bro i can get back to playing my gwf in peace or level my cleric
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