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The economy does not seem to be too healthy
madqhue
Member Posts: 58 Arc User
A quick perusal of the Auction House shows Tier 2 class gear going for 10-20k diamonds or less, tradeskill implements going for 50k for a green, and then Ancient pieces from Castle Never going for 1-2 million.
All of the economic sinks in the game (consumables like potions, repair kits etc) use gold which is not the currency of choice in the Auction House system. Every day more and more Tier 1 and Tier 2 items are being pulled out of dungeons and there is no way for the number of new level 60s with lots of diamonds to spend to maintain a steady demand. The only way the economy recovers is if the supply of items dries up, and that only happens if people stop running dungeons either by running Gauntlgrym exclusively or by simply leaving the game.
All of the economic sinks in the game (consumables like potions, repair kits etc) use gold which is not the currency of choice in the Auction House system. Every day more and more Tier 1 and Tier 2 items are being pulled out of dungeons and there is no way for the number of new level 60s with lots of diamonds to spend to maintain a steady demand. The only way the economy recovers is if the supply of items dries up, and that only happens if people stop running dungeons either by running Gauntlgrym exclusively or by simply leaving the game.
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NW-DJ56XFK6G
My first installment in the Rise of Shadovar Campaign.
And that is how you end a thread. Have a good night ladies and gentlemen!
That and even running the dungeons without cheating isn't hard once you know the mechanics and what to do etc. If the cheats are fixed the price shoudl go up a bit just because it takes time to run the t2 dungeons (when u dont cheat).
The pieces from castle never are expensive because:
1. It's a long dungeon
2. They are the best in the game
3. The average pug group NEEDS 2 clerics to do this, harder to get a group going then some other content
4. Many people still haven't beat CN 4/4
5. The dungeon requires everyone in the party to perform their role well with lots of red circle dodging.
I'm sure there's other reasons, these are off the top of my head
If you look at the loot from spellplague (t2 helms) you will notice the more desirable set are stil quite expensive. It's no coincidence that there are no cheats that will greatly reduce the time/difficulty to run spellplague (even though its' easy anyways).
The tradeskill stuff I have no comment on.
In this case we have oversupply and a diminishing demand with no way to remove excess supply from the equation. In addition the rate of currency entering into circulation is very low. If people could reasonably come close to refining 24k astral diamonds a day then prices would tend to be held higher.
As it is I doubt many people are making much use of the optional Astral Diamond sinks because there are simply much fewer ways to earn the currency.
Having a secondary market pop up in general chat for gold does nothing for Cryptic's business model. They want people operating in Astral Diamonds because they can easily sell Zen to customers and Zen directly translates to Astral Diamonds. The healthier the Astral Diamond economy is, the more Zen they sell and the more money they make.
Plenty of people are still cheating and exploiting, they aint a dungeon I been in yet that someone hasn't done something, some short cut, some hang or bug out spot, etc.... yes even Castle Never, my first time through with a pretty **** group, and still made it half way through 2 bosses, and they used some short cuts the one person knew of.
Purple gear is the new trash gear... Oh wow you do gauntylgrm and you get a piece of T2 armor, T1 if you fail... OMG WOW!
Talk about underwhelming...
Your simple logic is flawed just like the exploits that allowed people to get large amounts of top tier items and flood the market with them. Thats what screwed the market up. The market isnt working as planned unless your implying that cryptic wants us to use the exploits then.
There is nothing worse then deciding to play a new game, and go and buy normal run of the mill gear, and find out that you need to grind for months to be able to afford it, because the players who have been playing for a while are sitting on a ton of <insert currency here>.
Let the game launch, let the money and demand raise a bit, then complain.
Wrong and wrong. Not trying to be rude, but Castle Never is being exploited - and recruited for exploitation runs right in chat -as I type this. 15-20 minutes and done and looted and you don't even have to fight the adds on the dragon if you don't want to. Spellplague also is heavily exploitable, allowing three chests easily during a DD event, four is very doable with a good group. The fact that the items are endgame are keeping the prices somewhat of value, but even then you are noticing them drop more and more every day this stuff runs rampant.
There's also been talk of an item dupe going around from the same people who figured out the last five or so exploits of the game, and people have still been posting pictures around the interwebs laughing at how much money they made off exploits and avoided the banhammer.
I don't want the dreaded 'W' word, but they have to get tighter about this kind of stuff. It's pretty telling when CM's post on these forums that they've been aware of bugs for some time, but never fixed them until they become public knowledge.
Or when people start having to npc the purples T1 items to get more Potion/Kit money for T2s with the AS stacking being fixed and tanks being tanks when the balance patch hits I'm sure a lot of people will be rethinking what to do with some of the purple lootz
Gearwise what they really need to do is go the STO route. Run a dungeon, get X amount of coins. Spend coins for rep, the higher the rep the better gear you can buy, for the same coins you use to gain rep. An efficient time sink.
Eh, there's a large number of diamond sinks in the game. Things like auction house fees (10-12%), appearance changes (60k AD to switch one piece of equipment), enchant removal, feat respec, ID scrolls..... (plus stuff that I hope no-one is buying, like the mount upgrade scrolls)
As mentioned earlier, part of the decreasing prices is that it's harder to get more diamonds into the economy than it is to remove them.
Must be a glut of new low level clerics on the level up.......
Kinda weird how everyone calling doom and gloom on the DC class.
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
Ah ok. That's interesting to think about. So people don't have the AD to spend is what you're saying rather than the market is flooded?
Sources of ADs atm: people who buy zen and convert, dailies, invoking, professions. Hard to say if that's enough?
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Because people are selling/buying things all the time process of getting the best in slot gear is incredibly short. It is lot faster than it would be if we had Bound on Pickup gear. Massive exploits, unfixed to this day have made this even faster. This means two things:
1. Prices of all gear fall rapidly, making most epics worthless or close to no value
1. List of valuable gear that people still need is being shorter every day resulting in lower prices. In a matter of few weeks CN gear will be very cheap too.
There is nothing to stop this process as long AH is involved. Only stable and unexploited environment could make it a bit slower. The final result will be no profitable content to run (as everything is cheap) and bored players leaving the game because at this rate devs won't be able to keep up with new content.
Normally games try to slow down devaluation of content by certain mechanism like BoP gear and exploits being fixed asap - here none of it is present resulting in game growing old incredibly fast.
The trash t2 is selling for trash AD, the good t2 is selling for a lot.
It makes sense.... blame them for making terrible sets, not for having a bad currency system.
Neverwinter has heavy AD sinks. At least 10% of every AH transaction, and mounts/enchants/cats/gear of 500k - 1 million or more ad each. At 10%, it takes over 4 days of grinding 24K a day to earn enough AD just to post one of those. As the heavy ad sinks take ad out of the game, prices will stabilize based on how many AD people are actually grinding.
Remember that the people who buy zen and convert to ad aren't making ad. They're sinking huge chunks of ad out of the economy (which was added by the founders), because they're buying ad to sink it into items that leave the economy. Right now the best thing to do is to hoard ad, as it's only going to become more valuable until people figure out how much people grind. Don't hold zen, or items. Of course, use your own intuition about which direction the economy is going and how to preserve and grow your in game wealth. In my opinion, there isn't enough new ad added to the economy to keep up with the ad sinks, especially when I look at the cost of items in ad in terms of days spent grinding for it.
Converting isn't a source of AD. Everyone who buys AD with Zen has to buy from someone who already has the AD in the game. Currently the biggest 'source' of AD is the founder packs that include free AD. Once those are gone the value of AD to Zen should skyrocket.
ah yes. (and @perfectindigo too). Hadn't thought of that.
Just thinking about what I spend my ADs on it's mainly ID scrolls and AH fees for some gear. Enchants I overwrite atm and I have no interest in appearance changes.
As I suspect I'm almost done with this game but I'm a curious person I did the zen swap thing and bought 10 enchanted keys to open 10 of the 40 or so boxes that I have. That pretty much wasted almost all the rest of my AD (I had also bought a store cat not an exploit one). Out of those keys I got 3 relics to trade to Rhix for I think it was 40k ADs. So there is another source of creation maybe? And one that they could tweak easily. And there are people out there who love gambling who come to play this game and will buy the zen to buy the keys because that's their sense of fun?
I wish I had listened to the person saying it's better to get $50 worth of zen than the $200 founders pack
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Different people find different activities within the game fun. Including playing with the economy. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with playing any game the way you want... as long as you have fun and aren't cheating.
Not messed with the keys much, but... Yeah the keys can generate AD that way. But its at a pretty miserable rate right now. (Which I think is a good thing, but meh.) IIRC the 10 pack of keys costs just over $10. You said you got 3 idols, so that's 120K AD. That $10 could have bought you over 300K of already generated AD from other players.
For the long run the lockboxes and keys are kind of an unknown. As AD value rises it -might- become a viable AD generation method. The things in the box will be worth less AD, and people might only be looking forward to the relics. To many factors to predict on it though. Players may begin to value the boxes more. The drop rate on boxes might change. The chance of getting a relic might change. Who knows, the price of the keys could even be changed. As you said, its something they could tweak easily.
- What Class Are You? -
+1 dude.
and to those who are complaining regarding "economy" better study economy first
The problem with this is what happens when the supply of the market is artificially added upon by what should be an impossible number and at a rate that was never supposed to happen?
Is that still working as intended?
I don't see a lot of complaining really. Just discussion really of sinks and sources. I readily own that I have not studied economy and am grateful to those here who have shared their knowledge.
But hey if you want to be supercilious about the fact I haven't studied it, feel free. I can't see a reason why I can't utilise a forum such as this and a nice simplistic system such as this example to learn something
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
This right here is a big one, maybe the biggest. Founder pack AD is temporary--once it drains from the economy in any form of "sink", it's gone forever. Any item purchased from the wondrous bazaar(or other ripoff merchants), any appearance change, respec, or auction house fee takes the AD completely out of the game forever.
The actual, true income, weighted across the whole base, is 24k maximum per player, per day. The exception to this is icons(this AD comes refined, if I remember correctly).
A one million AD item is the equivalent of 41 and 2/3 days worth of income for a single person. The number of people willing to spend that will continue to decrease at an extremely rapid rate---and fall off almost completely very shortly after the founder pack is discontinued(I would expect it will be at release or shortly before/after).
It also means that the zen exchange will drop until it reaches the level in which people who paid for zen simply refuse to sell it for any less(it's dropped about one hundred AD per zen in less than two weeks). Since I'm not a prophet, I won't speculate on where that is.
Players who sell gear in the AH just have not fully adjusted yet and partly ask for (relatively) too many AD for the better gear. 3-6M is not really reasonable in light of the exchange rate's development, but it's all about supply and demand, and if people buy at those prices, then they are fine.
I am hoping for more, and more frequent, Zen store additions. This is another excellent tool that Cryptic/PWE have to stimulate the economy.