I started playing this game as a TR. Got to level 60 and enjoyed the PvP a lot. After a bit though it got rather boring with just the 2 maps and 1 game type. I started a CW and leveled up to 60 and now have another option for PvP to keep me happy. I've really been eagerly awaiting the 20v20 Gauntlgrym. The other day though when they released the video and the details I left the site a bit upset.
See I've been playing these types of games now for 15 years. I started with EverQuest and have played pretty much every major MMO since. Most of those years I was a hardcore raider that had to be in the best guild clearing the latest content right after it was released. After a while I gravitated towards being a PvP player only. I was sick of doing PvE because it was always the same thing over and over. As the games progressed the PvE content got watered down by taking a lot of the skill away. Strategy in PvE lost its luster and the gamemakers catered to the less skilled players. It really lost the challenge I craved from the earlier MMO's.
Now PvP is the same thing over and over too. Kill players, die sometimes, repeat over and over. What I like so much though is that I can be competitive. I can be known as a good player to watch out for on the battlefield.
So I guess my point is.. there needs to be more PvP content that doesn't contain PvE. I assume most players doing Gauntlgrym will be players who enjoy PvP so I expect the competition to be good. However I really do not want to be forced to do PvE in order to do a 20v20 PvP match. If Cryptic releases a PvP only 20v20 I'd be perfectly happy and then would avoid any events containing PvE. As it stands though I'll have to live with the PvE portion or just stick to the same 2 maps of Domination. If that is the case I will not stick around this game much longer. PvP players are a minority in most all MMO's and it plays 2nd fiddle to PvE. I get that and completely understand the reasoning behind gamemakers decisions on content. I've just never understood mixing them together though.
Why have the phase I? Why not just make it 2 phases and start with the PvP? Just seems like an unnecessary time suck to have some PvE dungeon before PvP where the sole purpose of the dungeon is to get a buff for PvP?
You are not wrong, but then again, the entire point of end game content is to be a time suck. They don't call it end game for nothing. It is the end of the game. The game is over. You are done. Growing a character through leveling is what RPG's are all about. When you reach the level cap it is time to beat the final boss and leave the game forever. So called "end game" content is nothing more than a gigantic time suck to keep people from leaving a game they have already finished.
I wonder if a guild split into two teams could trade off wins in PvP to farm this thing ala Ilum in SWTOR?
40 people run it and let the fresh 60's lose so they can go get some T1 in the LDfL, while the elder guild members go do the T2 dungeon. Trade off each night or however long the thing will take once it's on farm status (within 24 hrs of release).
Ideally you will have to queue for it so there will be no way to pick who the opposing team is.
I started playing this game as a TR. Got to level 60 and enjoyed the PvP a lot. After a bit though it got rather boring with just the 2 maps and 1 game type. I started a CW and leveled up to 60 and now have another option for PvP to keep me happy. I've really been eagerly awaiting the 20v20 Gauntlgrym. The other day though when they released the video and the details I left the site a bit upset.
See I've been playing these types of games now for 15 years. I started with EverQuest and have played pretty much every major MMO since. Most of those years I was a hardcore raider that had to be in the best guild clearing the latest content right after it was released. After a while I gravitated towards being a PvP player only. I was sick of doing PvE because it was always the same thing over and over. As the games progressed the PvE content got watered down by taking a lot of the skill away. Strategy in PvE lost its luster and the gamemakers catered to the less skilled players. It really lost the challenge I craved from the earlier MMO's.
Now PvP is the same thing over and over too. Kill players, die sometimes, repeat over and over. What I like so much though is that I can be competitive. I can be known as a good player to watch out for on the battlefield.
So I guess my point is.. there needs to be more PvP content that doesn't contain PvE. I assume most players doing Gauntlgrym will be players who enjoy PvP so I expect the competition to be good. However I really do not want to be forced to do PvE in order to do a 20v20 PvP match. If Cryptic releases a PvP only 20v20 I'd be perfectly happy and then would avoid any events containing PvE. As it stands though I'll have to live with the PvE portion or just stick to the same 2 maps of Domination. If that is the case I will not stick around this game much longer. PvP players are a minority in most all MMO's and it plays 2nd fiddle to PvE. I get that and completely understand the reasoning behind gamemakers decisions on content. I've just never understood mixing them together though.
Right. Most people who have issues are the ones that pve and hate pvp. If they are having issues with 1/3 of the cycle being pvp, it only compounds what pure pvp players must be feeling.
This is how I think they should have done this.
PVE zone. Each completion by a faction gives 50 points (points are just a word, can be anything really)
pvp zone. Each completion gives points comparable to average time spent. Or even better it could have been an instance where there were castles to defend/conquer towers etc... and points would tick for every cycle you owned a landmark. Say each cycle is 20 mins and depending on the strategic location of the objective points would be awarded. each pvp cycle would last 2 hours, and there could be multiple instances if they can all be filled.
Obviously this could be done many different ways, but the objective would be to split the play styles up so that one does not include the other unless you choose it. PVP folks get to pvp only and still contribute to their faction, while pve'rs have the same opportunity, but both would still be dependent on the other for dungeon access.
Tier two dungeon access is awarded in 48 hour cycles to the faction who had the most points at a designated time.
Tier one dungeon access would be for anyone who participated.
Tier one dungeon access would be granted to the winning factions populace, even if they did not participate.
To insure that one faction never totally dominates the tier two dungeon, gaunt coins could be spent to buy a "pass" to enter the tier two dungeon.
I am not saying I don't like the current incarnation, as I have not played it, but they could have catered to both groups without alienating those folks who abhor one aspect.
I am also against this I myself do not play pvp in MMORPG's because its always hard to balance the system and in someway or another theres always an advantage 1on1 based on what class u play. I have tried pvp in many MMORPG's and they have all been the same. Including NW. As a founder i can definately say that when i first heard about this i was very disappointed. Forceably combining PVP and PVE is a terrible mistake if the game did not start out as a open world pvp game. Cryptic has already attracted a large group of people to this game. But i can garantee that without a shadow of a doubt throwing in a map that forces players to be involved in PVP and PVE will definately not set well with alot of people. I know already that regardless whats available in that map ill never play it. I also know that all 4 of my IRL friends that play NW will also never go into that map. If this map is implemented my only wish is that there was a refund for founder pack. I bought the pack to help support cryptic because i thought the game was quite fun. But if they are going to have maps where i have to deal with the garbage that goes on in PVP in MMORPG's then i'd love the "refund my founder pack option" because i have no interest in either player or supporting a company thats going to do that. If i wanted forced PVP i'd go play EVE Online or Defiance or one of the other games thats open world pvp.
I understand where you are coming from and all I can say is to learn from your mistake. Never again give money to any company until after you are certain you like what they are doing. I have made the same mistake in the past but have not done so in the last few years and never will in the future. I only support companies that make games I like. By supporting garbage products we only encourage companies to make more garbage. Hold tightly to your wallet and only give to the companies that do it right (which in this day and age means you may only be playing free to play games and play them completely for free since there is not a lot of quality right now given how easy it is to make money on garbage). If we all did this we would start to see quality products but I have no illusion that we could ever convince everyone to do this. The best we can hope for is to do our small part and save a bunch of money in the process.
Three phases:
1. Kill npcs, activate <forget> that give points, team with most points at end gets a resistance buff for phase two.
2. PvP (you'll want that buff!). There is giants you can have help your side. Winning team goes to T2 loot dungeon (hopefully new T2 or specialized?!)
Loser team gets the Loser Dungeon for Losers
Kinda seems like fair. Like tol borad in WoW. Winnner gets to do the raid loser doesn't am I wrong ?
deal with it, chump. Don't like it, don't play it. I was merely stating that it has worked in previous mmo's. You might have understood that if you had more than half a brain.
Everything "worked" back in the day when there were few MMORPG's and we were all accepting of garbage. I thought Everquest (my first MMO) was wonderful back when I first played, but today I would never tolerate such a grindy game with so little to do in it other than endlessly murder creatures. Super Mario Brothers "worked" too, but only because people had very low standards in the 1980's because video gaming was so new. The Model T car "worked" as well, but we would not tolerate such a piece of junk today.
Though I suppose anyone with "half a brain" would realize that and not think that bring up outdated technology makes a meaningful argument.
at some point I agree at OP, some people choose to live in PvP and some in PvE, its normal in MMO life. in Neverwinter which is a action dungeons base game the PvP will be seconded in feature. Gauntlygrym, where you get PvE and PvP at once perhaps is the best choice on Neverwinter. the game main feature is indeed a dungeons, so I'm not surprise if PvP feature somehow will be injected into the PvE dungeoneering. but the problem is, this kind of content must have a great class balancing cause you cant just count mobs aspect but also other players too, such a "coincidence" the major update of class balancing, with so many nerfing, come along with it. from that point I believe the reason why the nerfing is happen instead of normal fix on some bug or "underpowerd" class is the gauntlygrym it self.
They need to create and release some more PvP content. It can't be very difficult to create a couple new maps and a set of new gear for each class. Make a couple capture the flag maps for 5v5 and fix some of the known PvP issues and people will be happy for a bit. The PvP community wants a ranking system and larger scale battles. Without additional gear and ranking the PvP community will leave. Those that only PvP usually buy Zen to buy gear and enchants, just saying.
there are other MMORPGs that have PVE and PVP mixed together, and its not a HUG MISTAKE. if you are close minded then you are the HUGE MISTAKE. comon people lets be open for INNOVATIONS, you are all crying like granpas (who thinks old tradition is still cool)!
The game needs to compete in the market, old tradition might not work now. think again
there are other MMORPGs that have PVE and PVP mixed together, and its not a HUG MISTAKE. if you are close minded then you are the HUGE MISTAKE. comon people lets be open for INNOVATIONS, you are all crying like granpas (who thinks old tradition is still cool)!
The game needs to compete in the market, old tradition might not work now. think again
I have no problem with what they're doing. I just think they need to add more PvP only content. As of now we get 2 domination maps for 5v5 that are filled with bots and afkers. They want to release this PvE/PvP event and that is fine, just add some other PvP options that don't require a large time sink and a set group to que for it.
Comments
Right. I'm aware both games are not the same. However, it doesn't hurt anyone that it exists.
See I've been playing these types of games now for 15 years. I started with EverQuest and have played pretty much every major MMO since. Most of those years I was a hardcore raider that had to be in the best guild clearing the latest content right after it was released. After a while I gravitated towards being a PvP player only. I was sick of doing PvE because it was always the same thing over and over. As the games progressed the PvE content got watered down by taking a lot of the skill away. Strategy in PvE lost its luster and the gamemakers catered to the less skilled players. It really lost the challenge I craved from the earlier MMO's.
Now PvP is the same thing over and over too. Kill players, die sometimes, repeat over and over. What I like so much though is that I can be competitive. I can be known as a good player to watch out for on the battlefield.
So I guess my point is.. there needs to be more PvP content that doesn't contain PvE. I assume most players doing Gauntlgrym will be players who enjoy PvP so I expect the competition to be good. However I really do not want to be forced to do PvE in order to do a 20v20 PvP match. If Cryptic releases a PvP only 20v20 I'd be perfectly happy and then would avoid any events containing PvE. As it stands though I'll have to live with the PvE portion or just stick to the same 2 maps of Domination. If that is the case I will not stick around this game much longer. PvP players are a minority in most all MMO's and it plays 2nd fiddle to PvE. I get that and completely understand the reasoning behind gamemakers decisions on content. I've just never understood mixing them together though.
You are not wrong, but then again, the entire point of end game content is to be a time suck. They don't call it end game for nothing. It is the end of the game. The game is over. You are done. Growing a character through leveling is what RPG's are all about. When you reach the level cap it is time to beat the final boss and leave the game forever. So called "end game" content is nothing more than a gigantic time suck to keep people from leaving a game they have already finished.
Ideally you will have to queue for it so there will be no way to pick who the opposing team is.
Right. Most people who have issues are the ones that pve and hate pvp. If they are having issues with 1/3 of the cycle being pvp, it only compounds what pure pvp players must be feeling.
This is how I think they should have done this.
PVE zone. Each completion by a faction gives 50 points (points are just a word, can be anything really)
pvp zone. Each completion gives points comparable to average time spent. Or even better it could have been an instance where there were castles to defend/conquer towers etc... and points would tick for every cycle you owned a landmark. Say each cycle is 20 mins and depending on the strategic location of the objective points would be awarded. each pvp cycle would last 2 hours, and there could be multiple instances if they can all be filled.
Obviously this could be done many different ways, but the objective would be to split the play styles up so that one does not include the other unless you choose it. PVP folks get to pvp only and still contribute to their faction, while pve'rs have the same opportunity, but both would still be dependent on the other for dungeon access.
Tier two dungeon access is awarded in 48 hour cycles to the faction who had the most points at a designated time.
Tier one dungeon access would be for anyone who participated.
Tier one dungeon access would be granted to the winning factions populace, even if they did not participate.
To insure that one faction never totally dominates the tier two dungeon, gaunt coins could be spent to buy a "pass" to enter the tier two dungeon.
I am not saying I don't like the current incarnation, as I have not played it, but they could have catered to both groups without alienating those folks who abhor one aspect.
I understand where you are coming from and all I can say is to learn from your mistake. Never again give money to any company until after you are certain you like what they are doing. I have made the same mistake in the past but have not done so in the last few years and never will in the future. I only support companies that make games I like. By supporting garbage products we only encourage companies to make more garbage. Hold tightly to your wallet and only give to the companies that do it right (which in this day and age means you may only be playing free to play games and play them completely for free since there is not a lot of quality right now given how easy it is to make money on garbage). If we all did this we would start to see quality products but I have no illusion that we could ever convince everyone to do this. The best we can hope for is to do our small part and save a bunch of money in the process.
Everything "worked" back in the day when there were few MMORPG's and we were all accepting of garbage. I thought Everquest (my first MMO) was wonderful back when I first played, but today I would never tolerate such a grindy game with so little to do in it other than endlessly murder creatures. Super Mario Brothers "worked" too, but only because people had very low standards in the 1980's because video gaming was so new. The Model T car "worked" as well, but we would not tolerate such a piece of junk today.
Though I suppose anyone with "half a brain" would realize that and not think that bring up outdated technology makes a meaningful argument.
The game needs to compete in the market, old tradition might not work now. think again
I have no problem with what they're doing. I just think they need to add more PvP only content. As of now we get 2 domination maps for 5v5 that are filled with bots and afkers. They want to release this PvE/PvP event and that is fine, just add some other PvP options that don't require a large time sink and a set group to que for it.