most gamers that play fantasy based games today are used to the sheer variety of viable options. in dnd (for at least 3e, 3.5e, and 4e, cant say about earlier versions cuz i was too young, lol) u are either a jack of all trades (user of all, master of none) or you build around a specific playstyle. jack of all trades players are a bit gimped when played. but only when you have a good DM. one that can fully capture the attention of the players with the story, one that doesnt cater to the players (if they want it they have to earn it, also the risk has to = the reward). ive had both types of DM's. my 1st DM was a player caterer, while it was fun and i kinda looked forward to the game, it didnt make me love to play, it was more of something fun to do on the weekends. my next DM was good, and the reason i love playing dnd. he made the players feel like the charcters were an extention of themselves, we actually cared about what happened to them, when something good or epic happened due to our decisions, we were proud. when something disasterous happened that was a product of our desicions, we were in ourselves (which drived us to become better). this connection is what created my love for the game. my 3rd DM was slightly better than my 2nd, but had the resources for the visual aspect of the game (scenery, buildings, figures for party characters and major npc's and general npc archtypes (aka farmers, soldiers, merchants, general peasants), also monsters and villians and even laminated gridmaps and tiles ALL custom made) (if he needed a fighter with a "golfbag of greatswords" (inside joke for our group for our 2-H fighter) he would get a fighter figure, find some parts that could be used to make a golfbag, put it together, attach sword hilts so it looks like it has swords it it, attach it in a way that looks like it would naturally, and then do a custom paint job) (i still have my character figure)
anyway, my point is that videogamers are spoiled with the viable choices, and need to calm down about it when playing an mmo that is based heavily on the idea's from the pnp. btw DDO (the only other mmo that has been about dnd) was a terrible representation of the 3.5 system, and i am glad cryptic didnt take that lackluster approach to 4e that turbine did with 3.5e.
You do remember that in second edition Elves got a Bonus to hit when using long bow and/or long sword? They were the 2 most common weapons ever equipped. Nearly every fighter or Ranger had them And really strong fighters opted fr Copm Bows so they could add their str bonuses to their damage! Our party cleared half a dungeon once with our fighters only using their Arrows and the second half was hack n slash!
4e ruined D&D in the first place 3.0e or 3.5e was the best. Oh i cant wait to see the exploits on this character or issues. I dont care what the class is i just know it will mess up the game no matter what it is.
You do remember that in second edition Elves got a Bonus to hit when using long bow and/or long sword? They were the 2 most common weapons ever equipped. Nearly every fighter or Ranger had them And really strong fighters opted fr Copm Bows so they could add their str bonuses to their damage! Our party cleared half a dungeon once with our fighters only using their Arrows and the second half was hack n slash!
Well you had kind of a dumb dm then. monsters dont just stand waiting to get shot they advance to you
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well you had kind of a dumb dm then. monsters dont just stand waiting to get shot they advance to you
And they die quickly when a force is firing 4 Bows at 2 Arrow a piece and a Mage is using area effect spells and clerics are protecting from evil. Advancing into death is what usually happened. It's not like here, where a horde respawns or just magically drops out of thin air right beside you!:rolleyes:
Quite a bit, actually, and in some, there's even a hotkey for two basic sets. I don't own GW 2.
OK if I am seeing what I think I am... You are so abusing the function. I go from a Range weapon to a melee weapon or a two weapon melee but never did I bristle with that much excitement!
My impression of the 4th editon PnP Ranger is:
Its a striker that does best damage if he is the only one that hurts his target
while the rogue is a striker that does best damage if is more people that hurt his target.
3 types of ranger.
Two weapons
Bow or Crossbow
1 weapon and a pet
My impression of the 4th editon PnP Ranger is:
Its a striker that does best damage if he is the only one that hurts his target
while the rogue is a striker that does best damage if is more people that hurt his target.
3 types of ranger.
Two weapons
Bow or Crossbow
1 weapon and a pet
LOL all three together were our basic Ranger in 3rd Ed.
They might actually do a hybrid to incorporate melee and ranged and not separate those aspects of the gameplay much like how Blizz did Hunters early on. I do hope they do and make it work. I like ranged and I like having ranged abilities to set off to keep the enemies from getting to me before I can get my melee ready. I wonder if they do this will that be the Tab ability, to switch between ranged/melee when pressed and if ranged is the switch will that be limited by points built up by other attacks.
LOL all three together were our basic Ranger in 3rd Ed.
Yeah I always said..in 4th edition they would have to use house rules or make Drizzt's some form of deity that transcends the physics of that plane.
Everyone knows I am far from a 4e hater but really...WTF? So my Ranger can not walk over pick up a Bow and fire it while his bestest animal pal Mr. Barky Von schnauzer helps him by biting the ankles of some wicked wicked goblin? He will spontaneously combust if he does?
It is as STUPID as 1st and 2nd ed saying a wizard can't carry a sword, which I ignored the hell out of as well.
well in 4th edition rangers are in no way restricted to either dual wield or bow, or pet in that matter. I remember building a dual wield ranger with a lot of powers that would work with both bow and two swords, like if used in melee you attack with both swords and when used with a bow you would shoot twice.
In fact, i really liked that build as it had some very good skirmish options, and the possibility to stand your ground in close combat, then starting to fire at ranged/caster enemys when necessary
Yeah I always said..in 4th edition they would have to use house rules or make Drizzt's some form of deity that transcends the physics of that plane.
Everyone knows I am far from a 4e hater but really...WTF? So my Ranger can not walk over pick up a Bow and fire it while his bestest animal pal Mr. Barky Von schnauzer helps him by biting the ankles of some wicked wicked goblin? He will spontaneously combust if he does?
It is as STUPID as 1st and 2nd ed saying a wizard can't carry a sword, which I ignored the hell out of as well.
Sure he can. He will just have to pick beast mastery over archer style or two-blade style. Then you can have Mr. Barky with you. Of course you can't change the style again later so I guess there are some things set in stone. Wizards can't become fulltime fighters either like they sort of could in 3e. I like the fact that you can't cherry pick classes as easily in 4e, and there are still plenty of options for characters.
If you don't pick the beast mastery, you can still have a dog. It just won't be your companion pet and probably not a strong fighter like the pet would be.
OK if I am seeing what I think I am... You are so abusing the function. I go from a Range weapon to a melee weapon or a two weapon melee but never did I bristle with that much excitement!
No abuse. It's WAI, the button that's highlighted in the toolbars on the right edge of the screen is the swap weapon set button. One set is dual wield, for the assassin, and the other is her bow, for use when people try to run away from her in PvP. I don't know that showing screenshots of being able to, by a button provided by the developer, swap weapon sets in answer to "How often do you change weapons in an MMO" is really all that much "bristling with excitement", however. It is simply providing more than "because I said so".
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Hey guys. Don't stone me but I do not follow D&D like most of you, was introduced to the game by a friend and ended up really enjoying the play style/combat and just general feel of the game.
I was just wondering what can I expect from a D&D type of Ranger/Archer class? Will it be like other MMOs where they normally have a pet? Any other things that may be different about a D&D Ranger/Archer than compared to other MMOs?
Archer ranger wouldn't have a pet, the Beastmaster Ranger does that.
I suspect once the ranger gets added. We will see a lot of unhappy rogues. Even if the damage between the two classes is equal on paper the ranged fighter will still end up doing more.
Every time the rogue has to close the distance to melee range or dodge an AoE. The ranger will still be there outside of AoE range plinking away as if they had some kind of medieval gatling gun. The only real limiting factor would be their max range. I suspect it will be comparable to CW spell ranges of about 50'. If they have attacks with range further then that. It could make them really rage inducing.
I suspect once the ranger gets added. We will see a lot of unhappy rogues. Even if the damage between the two classes is equal on paper the ranged fighter will still end up doing more.
Every time the rogue has to close the distance to melee range or dodge an AoE. The ranger will still be there outside of AoE range plinking away as if they had some kind of medieval gatling gun. The only real limiting factor would be their max range. I suspect it will be comparable to CW spell ranges of about 50'. If they have attacks with range further then that. It could make them really rage inducing.
Either way, it should be fun to try them.
I used to surprise twink Rogues in WoW battlegrounds in the early days and it was indeed fun, mainly cause they thought they were so untouchable. It took a minute to kill them but hitting them with freezing trap and then hitting them with aimed shot and then wing clipping them when they thawed and drawing distance to get aimed shot again was very satisfying, hopefully it will be close to the same.
I suspect once the ranger gets added. We will see a lot of unhappy rogues. Even if the damage between the two classes is equal on paper the ranged fighter will still end up doing more.
Every time the rogue has to close the distance to melee range or dodge an AoE. The ranger will still be there outside of AoE range plinking away as if they had some kind of medieval gatling gun. The only real limiting factor would be their max range. I suspect it will be comparable to CW spell ranges of about 50'. If they have attacks with range further then that. It could make them really rage inducing.
Either way, it should be fun to try them.
This is assuming its the "Archer Ranger". For all you know it might be the Two Blade Ranger (I can only hope). And the first class might be the Warlock striker. If they release an archer ranger and warlock ranger, you'll have 2 strong ranged dps. Whos gonna take a rogue to a dungeon? If the ranger is melee, at least you'll have one melee class in the fold. Just my opinion.
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gummibear2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
the only exception to this is the support role classes, which isnt clear or not if they will be joining the NW family in the future. or should i say not clear YET. the only mmo i know of that has done support classes sucessfully and well-recieved by player base, is RIFT.
i would like to see support classes in the future, because in pnp 4e, they are extremely under appreciated. a 5-man group that consists of 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps wont beable to handle nearly the difficulty that a group consisting of 1 offtank with healing/support, 1 healer/buff or healer/debuff combo, and 3 others consisting of any combination of the following: beefy support with buffs/debuffs and a little bit of healing, dps with support capabilities (buffs and/or debuffs and/or heals)
ACtually Aion's support class the Chanter, have afaik i know been way better received and more used than rifts ever, go into any 5man dungeon in rift and bring a bard rogue, a archon mage, the 2 main supports and you be gimping the group really... Where in aion's in the higher lvl dungeons chanters were almost as much sought after as a cleric.
And really imo it was a brilliant way, first the chants where you had like 10+ or so at highlvl but could only ever have 3 active at a time, yet all of them had their use, so could be hard to pick at times what would be best. Those alone could really beef up either the defensive of the offensive side of the party or other nifty stuff, and then you had shortterm but spammable really powerfull buffs but also a VERY hefty mana cost, so you couldnt really afford to keep them up all time, and with their mains attack chains doing some rather nifty debuffing as well, it was a very fun class
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well, in 4e the rangers are THE most broken dps class. This usually translates to mmo's automatically and can't be viewed as 'followign the books' when it does.
Well, I'd rather that they be a bit broken than useless. What they did to rangers (and most archers in general) in DDO is a **** shame.
First of all, there's still no guarantee that the ranger will be an archer. The ranger wielding two swords is an equally viable D&D archetype (think Drizzt Do'Urden rather than Legolas).
Comments
anyway, my point is that videogamers are spoiled with the viable choices, and need to calm down about it when playing an mmo that is based heavily on the idea's from the pnp. btw DDO (the only other mmo that has been about dnd) was a terrible representation of the 3.5 system, and i am glad cryptic didnt take that lackluster approach to 4e that turbine did with 3.5e.
Well you had kind of a dumb dm then. monsters dont just stand waiting to get shot they advance to you
What about Rift and Defiance then?
Quite a bit, actually, and in some, there's even a hotkey for two basic sets. I don't own GW 2.
Only a dumb fighter would engage hand to hand when range is available. That the whole purpose of range weapons in the history of warfare.
Its a striker that does best damage if he is the only one that hurts his target
while the rogue is a striker that does best damage if is more people that hurt his target.
3 types of ranger.
Two weapons
Bow or Crossbow
1 weapon and a pet
Yeah I always said..in 4th edition they would have to use house rules or make Drizzt's some form of deity that transcends the physics of that plane.
Everyone knows I am far from a 4e hater but really...WTF? So my Ranger can not walk over pick up a Bow and fire it while his bestest animal pal Mr. Barky Von schnauzer helps him by biting the ankles of some wicked wicked goblin? He will spontaneously combust if he does?
It is as STUPID as 1st and 2nd ed saying a wizard can't carry a sword, which I ignored the hell out of as well.
In fact, i really liked that build as it had some very good skirmish options, and the possibility to stand your ground in close combat, then starting to fire at ranged/caster enemys when necessary
Sure he can. He will just have to pick beast mastery over archer style or two-blade style. Then you can have Mr. Barky with you. Of course you can't change the style again later so I guess there are some things set in stone. Wizards can't become fulltime fighters either like they sort of could in 3e. I like the fact that you can't cherry pick classes as easily in 4e, and there are still plenty of options for characters.
If you don't pick the beast mastery, you can still have a dog. It just won't be your companion pet and probably not a strong fighter like the pet would be.
No abuse. It's WAI, the button that's highlighted in the toolbars on the right edge of the screen is the swap weapon set button. One set is dual wield, for the assassin, and the other is her bow, for use when people try to run away from her in PvP. I don't know that showing screenshots of being able to, by a button provided by the developer, swap weapon sets in answer to "How often do you change weapons in an MMO" is really all that much "bristling with excitement", however. It is simply providing more than "because I said so".
Every time the rogue has to close the distance to melee range or dodge an AoE. The ranger will still be there outside of AoE range plinking away as if they had some kind of medieval gatling gun. The only real limiting factor would be their max range. I suspect it will be comparable to CW spell ranges of about 50'. If they have attacks with range further then that. It could make them really rage inducing.
Either way, it should be fun to try them.
I used to surprise twink Rogues in WoW battlegrounds in the early days and it was indeed fun, mainly cause they thought they were so untouchable. It took a minute to kill them but hitting them with freezing trap and then hitting them with aimed shot and then wing clipping them when they thawed and drawing distance to get aimed shot again was very satisfying, hopefully it will be close to the same.
This could very well imply the Scourge Warlock vs the Archer Ranger. as it is a close "range" dps class.
Make it a Seeker Ranger and you get controller with ranged DPS.
This is assuming its the "Archer Ranger". For all you know it might be the Two Blade Ranger (I can only hope). And the first class might be the Warlock striker. If they release an archer ranger and warlock ranger, you'll have 2 strong ranged dps. Whos gonna take a rogue to a dungeon? If the ranger is melee, at least you'll have one melee class in the fold. Just my opinion.
ACtually Aion's support class the Chanter, have afaik i know been way better received and more used than rifts ever, go into any 5man dungeon in rift and bring a bard rogue, a archon mage, the 2 main supports and you be gimping the group really... Where in aion's in the higher lvl dungeons chanters were almost as much sought after as a cleric.
And really imo it was a brilliant way, first the chants where you had like 10+ or so at highlvl but could only ever have 3 active at a time, yet all of them had their use, so could be hard to pick at times what would be best. Those alone could really beef up either the defensive of the offensive side of the party or other nifty stuff, and then you had shortterm but spammable really powerfull buffs but also a VERY hefty mana cost, so you couldnt really afford to keep them up all time, and with their mains attack chains doing some rather nifty debuffing as well, it was a very fun class
Well, I'd rather that they be a bit broken than useless. What they did to rangers (and most archers in general) in DDO is a **** shame.
Ranged classes in ddo are the highest burst dps in the game if you have manyshot.
Drizzt was like a buncha fighter levels, a few rogue levels, a barbarian level, a dervish level, and a few ranger levels. The ranger levels were last.