I apologize for the late reply, Aciele! I've been particularly busy yesterday, and I didn't get the chance to go online in the forum. And oh boy those are a lot of info. Thank you for the questions and allow me to attempt to answer them for you. The build is open to a lot of variation so if you have any ideas as to how to improve it, feel free to lay them down as well! I'm really happy to see another person thinking more intently about this build.
First and foremost I like Metzli's and Luna's guides a lot as it contains a lot of useful information.
If you really wish to purchase a T2 that works well with this Stealth build, I really, highly recommend Master Assassin. It increase your power by 4050 whenever you use Lurker's Assault. For some reason it multiplies the buff it gets from using a daily by 3 times using LA. In PVE, monsters hit so hard that they give us tremendous amounts of AP using the Bait and Switch dummy, so you'll tend to use Lurker's Assault a lot. I also like Sinister Shade, particularly because of the increase in Recovery, 1k+ is tremendous and it helps with AP. But nothing comes close to Master Assassin's buff. And I've also thought of the Master Duelist set. For some reason, however, it doesn't seem to work with Duelist's Fury. I'm interested to know when we can actually have a fixed version of this set though, because it really would be awesome if it worked properly with Duelist's Fury as it would shave off tons of our CD, allowing people to create a new set-centered permastealth build.
And oh man, Vorpal Enchant, how I absolutely would love to own even a regular version of it. Paired up with Combat Advantage crits, our DPS would boost tremendously. Sadly I don't have the resources for it but in theory it would work well with this build. I'm not particularly sure about where he got his statistics for that, but it must be from keen observation and experience. And what you say is true, very true in fact. I personally would choose Vorpal over Plague Fire. The 17% we get from T1 PVP set is good, and I probably am not planning to get my PVP set replaced for a while unless we see another set that gives out the same or better bonuses in stealth.
And yep, I also tend to sub Skillful Infiltrator and Sneak Attack for Tenacious Concealment and Tactics, depending on how much AoE is in the dungeon. If there aren't much, I just use Skillful Infiltrator and Tactics. 15% AP boost makes getting LA easier. Tenacious Concealment helps a lot for not revealing our position from AoE that sometimes flings along our way thanks to allies who provoke those AoE's. Smoke Bomb is sometimes good. In party play it helps your allies tremendously. But in boss fights, Impossible to Catch is an absolute must. Your allies should doing the same amount effort as you in staying alive to see the dungeon through. One of the possible weaknesses I see in our build would be we tend to die a whole lot slower (or not at all) when it comes to dungeons. And as such, it's tough to run pug group epic runs.
And thank you for the feedback and advise, Aciele. Much appreciated! I'll definitely include what stats to go for in the gear section. I haven't had the time to write recently due to RL being too taxing as of late, but it's the weekend right now where I live, so I think I can get to work on it later.
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Oh yeah about that rotation! I'm about to change that as I have found a better means to stay in Stealth for about 7 seconds longer using the same skills. I think I mentioned it in one of my previous replies to another forum poster in this guide. It takes some getting used to, but I'm pretty sure you'll be able to nail it soon enough. I assure you that you'll never need to go out of Stealth in between the rotation using this. Can you kindly try it out and see how it will perform for you? I'm pretty sure you'll get the same results as I am getting.
Rotation: Provided our target is a big target, we do...
- Stealth.
- Duelist's Fury.
- Some Sly Flourish.
- Shadow Strike. (Stealth Refill)
- Duelist's Fury.
- Some Sly Flourish.
- Bait and Switch. (Stealth Refill)
- Duelist's Fury.
- Some Sly Flourish.
- Shadow Strike. (Stealth Refill, Shadow Strike's C should have already been refilled at this point)
- Duelist's Fury.
- Sly Flourish.
- Impossible to Catch.
- Run away or attack a little bit more, wait for 2 - 3 seconds for Shadow Strike to refill and repeat the rotation.
I believe this should work for you, Aciele. I also manage to put 2 Duelist's Fury on my opponent in PVE if I stealthed up right next to it. The damage we do using Duelist's Fury slows done the Stealth depletion by a little bit, enough for us to use Bait and Switch, and not Shadow Strike because it takes like 1 second for the animation to finish up. I usually practice this rotation by the Training Dummies in Trade of Blades, and I'm pretty sure you can nail it too. If by any chance you are thinking of creating a variation of this build using another set, please feel free to do so. I'd like to see how else it can be played and hopefully, if it can be played better.
I really appreciate the questions and clarifications regarding this Stealth Build. It's always nice to have someone to converse these things with.
Thanks for this great TR build guide. I think I got really lucky with my first roll. I am using a Tiefling for my first build and rolled Dex 18 Str 13 and Cha 15. I used the +2 Con and Cha. This brought my Con up to 10. I like to have the most HP on my characters as I can, so my question is how much Con is enough for this build and if I should even add any more to Con?
This is my first character here and I would like to keep it around for a long time and again thanks again for doing a lot of the legwork for the community with this build.
- low - medium hp mobs i pop BnS first > AP these mobs die fast enough
2 combo of DF, yes, i was able to hit the nail on dummies, but its too close for me to trust on.
The pvp set offers 0 recovery so maybe its better to go for some to reduce the CD of BnS and SS.
Since i only worked a little on dummies but didnt play my rogue further. Im playing a GF at the moment and i can tell you: Its a hard start hitting for 50-100 after some few (little) burst. Rogue was funnier till now, a lot :-) (testing envy`s pvp guide)
Thanks for this great TR build guide. I think I got really lucky with my first roll. I am using a Tiefling for my first build and rolled Dex 18 Str 13 and Cha 15. I used the +2 Con and Cha. This brought my Con up to 10. I like to have the most HP on my characters as I can, so my question is how much Con is enough for this build and if I should even add any more to Con?
This is my first character here and I would like to keep it around for a long time and again thanks again for doing a lot of the legwork for the community with this build.
Hi! And thank you so much for the kind words. I appreciate them very much. For constitution, as much as possible you do not wish to spend any of your level up AB points on it. CON isn't really much of an issue for our build as it is only an added perk if we can afford to use the points. As much as possible we do not want to get hit at all. But your roll is good enough. This just means that you will have 12 to INT, CON, and WIS at level 60, which is equivalent to +2% Recharge Speed, +4% Max HP, +2% Control Bonus/Resistance.
I have 14 CON due to me getting +12 on CON on my first roll. my WIS was 8 back then. Here is a screenie of my character. Please forgive the embarrassing low-tier items. I'm a fairly casual and poor player.
I hope you have a good experience for your first character using this build! If you have any more questions or if there are any clarifications needed, please feel free to lay your concerns in another reply to this thread. I'd be more than happy to assist you with them.
- low - medium hp mobs i pop BnS first > AP these mobs die fast enough
2 combo of DF, yes, i was able to hit the nail on dummies, but its too close for me to trust on.
The pvp set offers 0 recovery so maybe its better to go for some to reduce the CD of BnS and SS.
Since i only worked a little on dummies but didnt play my rogue further. Im playing a GF at the moment and i can tell you: Its a hard start hitting for 50-100 after some few (little) burst. Rogue was funnier till now, a lot :-) (testing envy`s pvp guide)
Well, let's just hope you come back to that rogue one of these days, man. Envy's Conqueror Guide is awesome. I myself have been in the process of building a GF spec-ed towards Envy's, but sadly I don't have enough time to play 2 characters at once so I tend to play more on Banelorne. I just need to complete a properly working gear setup for Gauntlgrym.
Hello and my apologies for the late reply. You can go for Swift Footwork versus Toughness, but it will not readily show its effets as 2 points in SF gives you 4% Stamina Regen. That's not a lot as our Stamina Regen is also pretty slow. Toughness on the one hand gives you more life, a readily observable effect. The more HP you have, the more time you get to hit your opponents.
And unfortunately I have not been able to cover the gear section of the guide yet. I have an extensive draft already and all it needs is coding! Please check back from time to time. I may be able to get them in by tomorrow.
I started playing NW 7 days ago as a TR. I was really happy with the way I was able to work with the stealth and abilities. I've played her until lvl 36 which is when I discovered the guides. I was VERY disheartened with everything I was reading guide wise because all the builds I was finding steered clear of the stealth and went more aoe. To me, a rogue is STEALTH and SNEAK ATTACKS. So, I made a GWF and played her for 2 days. Out of curiosity/boredom I checked the guides again since the free respec came out and WOAH! I find your build which is EXACTLY how I was building my rogue. (personal THANK YOU for validating me) I feel there is hope again to play the rogue in stealth mode. THANK YOU for posting this guide.
Yep! Post patch, it's still working wonderfully. It's mainly because this build is a stealth-based build which does not rely on Shocking Execution that much. Lurker's Assault + 12 charges of Cloud of Steel usually does much more damage and ends up shredding a CW, TR or DC's HP to 20% and most usually to the point of death. It also does not rely on the double snare glitches some PVP builds used to have, and is mainly untouched by the recent patch.
However, PVE-wise, I have felt the reduction in DPS due to the fact that DF Bleeds are now ticking much slower. But it still will not stop a Stealth Executioner from dealing competitive amounts of damage in PVE settings, mainly dungeons.
Other than that, Bait and Switch still replenishes stealth and gives tons of AP for Lurker's Assault, Shadow Strike still dazes people in stealth and replenishes Stealth, Lashing Blade still dishes out tremendous bursts of damage, but I still prefer Impossible to Catch over LB, specially in PVP where it allows you to survive escape even groups of 3 - 5 people when out of stealth.
I started playing NW 7 days ago as a TR. I was really happy with the way I was able to work with the stealth and abilities. I've played her until lvl 36 which is when I discovered the guides. I was VERY disheartened with everything I was reading guide wise because all the builds I was finding steered clear of the stealth and went more aoe. To me, a rogue is STEALTH and SNEAK ATTACKS. So, I made a GWF and played her for 2 days. Out of curiosity/boredom I checked the guides again since the free respec came out and WOAH! I find your build which is EXACTLY how I was building my rogue. (personal THANK YOU for validating me) I feel there is hope again to play the rogue in stealth mode. THANK YOU for posting this guide.
Thank you so much for the kind words, and it's my pleasure to have been able to affirm your decisions for your TR. I also agree that TR's should not always be the glass beat sticks people usually see them as. Strategic play as a Stealth TR can be equally competitive and reliable in both PVP and PVE settings. I absolutely can't wait to test it on Gauntlgrym!
Yep! Post patch, it's still working wonderfully. It's mainly because this build is a stealth-based build which does not rely on Shocking Execution that much. Lurker's Assault + 12 charges of Cloud of Steel usually does much more damage and ends up shredding a CW, TR or DC's HP to 20% and most usually to the point of death. It also does not rely on the double snare glitches some PVP builds used to have, and is mainly untouched by the recent patch.
However, PVE-wise, I have felt the reduction in DPS due to the fact that DF Bleeds are now ticking much slower. But it still will not stop a Stealth Executioner from dealing competitive amounts of damage in PVE settings, mainly dungeons.
Other than that, Bait and Switch still replenishes stealth and gives tons of AP for Lurker's Assault, Shadow Strike still dazes people in stealth and replenishes Stealth, Lashing Blade still dishes out tremendous bursts of damage, but I still prefer Impossible to Catch over LB, specially in PVP where it allows you to survive escape even groups of 3 - 5 people when out of stealth.
Thank you so much for the kind words, and it's my pleasure to have been able to affirm your decisions for your TR. I also agree that TR's should not always be the glass beat sticks people usually see them as. Strategic play as a Stealth TR can be equally competitive and reliable in both PVP and PVE settings. I absolutely can't wait to test it on Gauntlgrym!
Thx a lot and nice work, forgot to mention that! So I'll give it a try and wanna start to farm a T2 instance, which one would you recommend to start with and how long does it take you to clear? I think you should leave the most trash, don't you?
Yeah after some more digging around the forums I found actual numbers for how much HP Toughness would give at 60 and could not turn it down.
At this point I have blown all my funds on getting the pvp set and a few of the other items on your character sheet. I could not afford that nice neck you have (75k on Dragon) but I got something with similar but lower stats. Hopefully I will be able to transmute enough enchants this weekend to get most of the normal slots dealt with. Probably going with crit in the offense movement in utility and lifesteal in defense. I will worry about armor & weapon enchants later on once I get some income coming in.
In order for me to be able to test the survivability of this build, I took it upon myself to challenge this build to see how well it can hold in solo scenarios. And what better way to test this than to solo some of the hardest contents of the game; dungeons. Dungeons that are supposed to be taken by 5 players can be soloed by this Stealth Rogue build. So far I've done Lair of the Mad Dragon up until Temple of the Spider and I'm planning to continue this up until Normal Dread Vaults. I was also doing Caverns of Karrundax a while back but sadly the game decided to disconnect me in the middle of the dungeon run, just before I got to fight the 2nd boss. It was a disheartening experience but I will be sure to try again when I'm able to just so I can complete my list.
So far here are the dungeons I've managed to solo and the screenshots I took in order to commemorate the times I was able to successfully challenge these dungeons without dying, not even once.
I've been fortunate enough to have not died, not even once in any of the dungeons I've soloed so far. I've had several different encounters but the experience I've gained through soloing each one dungeon helped me conquer the one I've been planning to run through next. I hope these screenshots somehow convince people to try and run this build in the future, and I dream that one day I can find someone in one of my future runs who uses the same build as I am. Just imagining how much a 5 man Stealth TR party can do in a dungeon... that would be a pretty awesome sight.
i love it. im gonna use this build exactly. thanks
Also I'm curious where did you take the damage from if you're invisible the entire time?
I'm pretty sure it's because some mobs randomly attack and if you're unlucky, you'll take some hits. Also you could take some dmg from casters and aoe spells.
Thx a lot and nice work, forgot to mention that! So I'll give it a try and wanna start to farm a T2 instance, which one would you recommend to start with and how long does it take you to clear? I think you should leave the most trash, don't you?
Thanks. And for T2 instances I highly enjoy Karrundax the most after the patch. Karrundax is paper thin now. The least enjoyable for me is Temple of the Spider since it's SO hard to kill properly kill Driders without taking much damage. The main problem is they are able to detect us even when we are stealthed. Other examples of mobs that are able to detect stealthed players are the Witches from Throne of Idris. Even though they really can't see you, the slow, big black orb that dazes people will always home in on you no matter if you're stealthed or not. And yes! We tend to go for the highest HP mob we can find and apply the bleeds as soon as possible, and leave the small ones for the GWF and CW's. GWF's are awesome at killing mobs.
Yeah after some more digging around the forums I found actual numbers for how much HP Toughness would give at 60 and could not turn it down.
At this point I have blown all my funds on getting the pvp set and a few of the other items on your character sheet. I could not afford that nice neck you have (75k on Dragon) but I got something with similar but lower stats. Hopefully I will be able to transmute enough enchants this weekend to get most of the normal slots dealt with. Probably going with crit in the offense movement in utility and lifesteal in defense. I will worry about armor & weapon enchants later on once I get some income coming in.
Wow, I actually got my neck piece for 30k. I was lucky to have been able to spot it cheaply. I highly recommend the Signet of Unending Pain or Pale Bone Band for rings if you still do not have Pyrotechnic Bands. Pyro Bands can wait, what's important is a ring that covers Power, ArPen and Critical for maximized damage from Duelist's Fury. And I was also planning the same thing for this weekend's event. For the Defense Slots, you might want to consider Radiant Enchantments for the added HP. Life Steal works too, but having the extra HP can save our hide when we accidentally dodge into another red AoE zone that pops out because of our allies.
i love it. im gonna use this build exactly. thanks
Thank you! It makes me happy to hear your interest in trying out this build! It may take some getting used to but I'm sure you'll find it enjoyable not dying easily.
Also I'm curious where did you take the damage from if you're invisible the entire time?
Unlike x3lade's perma-stealth build, this stealth build only takes us to up to about 90% stealth uptime. Without Lurker's Assault, the longest we can go into stealth would be around half a minute. After that is over, it's either I use Impossible to Catch to escape all forms of damage for 5 seconds or use Smoke Bomb to Daze the enemies surrounding me while I dodge for extra minor Stealth refills. From testing, I determined that Impossible to Catch is a much better choice than Smoke Bomb for escaping damage, but Smoke Bomb is a much better choice in party play as your entire party benefits from it.
And what xmorphx204 said is also true. Sometimes enemies will randomly attack at a certain direction when we attack them. Examples are Flame Spikers and Ash Disciples from Karrundax, Blade Masters from Temple of the Spider, and the frost wolves from Grey Wolf Den. Those are but a few examples and I'm pretty sure there are more of them, just can't remember which ones at the moment.
I dont want to be the bad guy or the troll but after your build became quite famous,pvp's are full with infinite stealth rogues that i kill one shot with my lashing blade or even with 2 impact shots so i thank you too
You must be quite a pro of a TR, then. Most have trouble with detecting us while in stealth, you may even find some players randomly swinging their blades around hoping to be able to hit you once. In my opinion, it takes absolute mastery of the game (and great gear) to be able to one shot Stealth TR's with LB. Kudos to being a great player, anothersorrow. Your experiences in the game will further help develop the knowledge of TR's within the community, so I recommend that you lay them down in written format sometime as a guide.
Its not about me being "pro" although i spend most of my time pvping and i believe i got very good experience as a TR.I have my own unique style that im still trying to improve after patch cuz a lot of things changed for us.The problem with the stealth build is that you lose a ton of dmg because skills like lashing blades put you out of stealth so using them destroying the concept of perma stealth build.I havent seen you playing ( im on mindflayer) but iv seen like a lot of rogues following your build or something simillar.The do so less dmg than me that they have to stick on me for a long period to do me dmg giving me many opportunities to hit a lashing blade or even impact shots and make them run for the pots or in most cases kill them easy.The most fun is when i stealth+lashing blade after detecting one stealh rogue and one shot him.They just take the hit without even use ItC cuz they keep it for defense after stealth ends ;D
Just wanted to say thanks for this guide. I rerolled from GWF a couple of days ago, and after playing around with other builds I've settled on this one for the most part. I'm still learning the ropes as a TR but I managed to solo the Cloak Tower with my level 17 rogue today.
hey bro!!!=). good day! im from philippines.Im level 30 TR from Dragon Shard. And im a big fan of your TR stealth build.GOOD JOB for that!.. I just wana ask some quiestions about This Build.
1st question . What stats is for TR (eg. Armor Penetration, Defense,Power,Regenaration, Etc) what do we really need for this build??
2nd question is . Im a human TR.. so the extra 3 feats. what feat should i get from it??
3rd question is How can i also get the (30 sec stealth)? it seems my stealth is not 30seconds..
4th question is - Is this TR build good for New and Not Rich Players Like me? Should You recommend this for a New Player Like me??
5th questiong is - is this TR build Needs a high end Armors and weapons??
Thanks. And for T2 instances I highly enjoy Karrundax the most after the patch. Karrundax is paper thin now. The least enjoyable for me is Temple of the Spider since it's SO hard to kill properly kill Driders without taking much damage. The main problem is they are able to detect us even when we are stealthed. Other examples of mobs that are able to detect stealthed players are the Witches from Throne of Idris. Even though they really can't see you, the slow, big black orb that dazes people will always home in on you no matter if you're stealthed or not. And yes! We tend to go for the highest HP mob we can find and apply the bleeds as soon as possible, and leave the small ones for the GWF and CW's. GWF's are awesome at killing mobs.
Hmm dunno if I understand this correct, but do you solo Karrundax or playing in a Grp, cause you are saying something about leaving mobs for a gwf? If you do it completly solo, how long does it take you to clear it? Do you have a video for us to see how you do it?
Its not about me being "pro" although i spend most of my time pvping and i believe i got very good experience as a TR.I have my own unique style that im still trying to improve after patch cuz a lot of things changed for us.The problem with the stealth build is that you lose a ton of dmg because skills like lashing blades put you out of stealth so using them destroying the concept of perma stealth build.I havent seen you playing ( im on mindflayer) but iv seen like a lot of rogues following your build or something simillar.The do so less dmg than me that they have to stick on me for a long period to do me dmg giving me many opportunities to hit a lashing blade or even impact shots and make them run for the pots or in most cases kill them easy.The most fun is when i stealth+lashing blade after detecting one stealh rogue and one shot him.They just take the hit without even use ItC cuz they keep it for defense after stealth ends ;D
Good strategy. And it's true that we lose a LOT of DPS skills due to Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike, but in return we gain survivability. Against most other classes and players who are not familiar with dealing with Stealth Rogues, they most usually do not know what to do against us. I most usually get taunted because of people not seeing where I am when I kill them. I die from time to time due to highly skilled players, but I tend to just avoid the dangerous people and concentrate on doing what I can to help win the match.
I'm extra wary whenever I see a familiar name in PVP. You can usually catch me PVP-ing during these times bro. I sure hope if I meet you, I'd get you as an ally and not an opponent. I have a lot of rogues I highly respect. Kyudo, Quescia, Des, just to name a few. I remember all the awesome rogues I've see in PVP. Tell me your IGN sometime so I can look out for your name, bro. So I'd be extra wary of you. LOL.
Just wanted to say thanks for this guide. I rerolled from GWF a couple of days ago, and after playing around with other builds I've settled on this one for the most part. I'm still learning the ropes as a TR but I managed to solo the Cloak Tower with my level 17 rogue today.
Thanks again!
Wow, soloed CT with a 17 Rogue. I remember dying in there back when I was a newbie, and I had 3 people with me. We gave up eventually. I say keep it up, man. You have the knack for the TR in my opinion. And I'm glad to hear your positive feedback for my guide. If there are any need for clarifications please feel free to ask!
hey bro!!!=). good day! im from philippines.Im level 30 TR from Dragon Shard. And im a big fan of your TR stealth build.GOOD JOB for that!.. I just wana ask some quiestions about This Build.
1st question . What stats is for TR (eg. Armor Penetration, Defense,Power,Regenaration, Etc) what do we really need for this build??
2nd question is . Im a human TR.. so the extra 3 feats. what feat should i get from it??
3rd question is How can i also get the (30 sec stealth)? it seems my stealth is not 30seconds..
4th question is - Is this TR build good for New and Not Rich Players Like me? Should You recommend this for a New Player Like me??
5th questiong is - is this TR build Needs a high end Armors and weapons??
Hey, Atoy. What a coincidence, I'm also from the Philippines. It almost makes me feel like I know you from somewhere and you're trolling me. Lol either way man, thank you for the kind words and I really appreciate them! Allow me to answer your questions for you.
1. I'll add this sometime tomorrow in the gear section of the guide. To answer your question, however, You'll want as much Crit, ArPen and Power for increased damage. Those are the top 3 stats you want to stack on. The order of the stats are as follows.
Critical
Power/ArPen
Critical will help us increase our damage in PVE in the long run and we try to abuse critical hits as much as possible. Power and ArPen are both in my 2nd place due to the fact that they help even out your damage versus most types of mobs. Based on Metzli's guide, one of the most trusted guide's I read for the theorycraft, 22% is the average ArPen most monsters have. You'll need around 2k ArPen which will be easy to attain via the PVP set. Even better, once the Gauntlgrym gear comes out, the Battlefield Skulker set gives more of our needed stats at higher rates. So look out for that one as well.
2. Since you're a human, you absolutely must take the Scoundrel Training feat which will increase your damage against enemies that do not target you. Since you are at Stealth most of the times, you get to abuse this 9% increase a lot.
3. For the 30 second stealth, you might want to read up a bit about the rotation of this build. Our Stealth at most lasts around 8 seconds. The first 8 seconds come from regular Stealth (TAB), 2nd comes from Shadow Strike refill, 3rd from Bait and Switch refill, 4th from another Shadow Strike refill because it would have already been filled up before your 3rd refill of Stealth runs out. You may need to use Dodge sometimes to get a bit of Stealth from Twilight Adept feat.
If you wish to increase this further, you can use Lurker's Assault to extend your Stealth by 10 seconds. After those 10 seconds are done, Bait and Switch as well as Shadow Strike would have already been filled up, meaning you can start the rotation all over again, further extending your stealth from 30 + 10 (LA) + another 30 from the new rotation. You can go up to stealth for more than a minute if played right.
4. YES. I highly recommend it. I myself am a casual player and I'm not planning to spend a single cent in the game. The challenge of a game is to become good at it without the use of monetary assistance, but that is just my opinion. It feels more rewarding that way. The gear in which my build needs are really cheap, excluding the pants and shirt. Everyone needs a gemmed epic pants/shirt. Pyrotechnic Bands (I just recently got 2 of my own) can be replaced by Pale Bone Band and Signet of Unending Pain. They are short of +50 Crit, but are nonetheless one of the best cheap gear casual players like ourselves can enjoy and use.
5. Not at all, really. You can go for high end weapons and armor, but I recommend the PVP set more than any other set in the game right, even the T2 ones. The +20% stealth we can get from the PVP set can give us the needed amount of time to be able to make the rotations work properly. More stealth = more HP intact, more HP intact = more time to hit people, eventually killing them if they're not a GF.
If you have any other questions just feel free to ask!
Hmm dunno if I understand this correct, but do you solo Karrundax or playing in a Grp, cause you are saying something about leaving mobs for a gwf? If you do it completly solo, how long does it take you to clear it? Do you have a video for us to see how you do it?
I'm sorry for the confusion, xmorph. For any epic dungeon, it's a complete must for anyone to have a party no matter how high its solo capability is. It's absolutely impossible to legitimately solo a T2 dungeon for anyone, in my opinion. Using this build I believe one can do so (and I will be attempting it at a later point in time), but it might take that person a really long span of time. One shall also need to be extra careful. I have soloed normal Karrundax, however I didn't get the chance to take a screenie. All I need now is to solo normal Dread Vaults. I will be soloing normal Karrundax again, just so I can complete my collection of screenshots. After I do Dread Vaults however I shall be attempting epic dungeons so I can further test how far this build can take me in solo situations.
I'll try to record a video one of these days but I'll apologize in advance since my gaming computer is not that high end. It might not look good at all.
Wow, soloed CT with a 17 Rogue. I remember dying in there back when I was a newbie, and I had 3 people with me. We gave up eventually. I say keep it up, man. You have the knack for the TR in my opinion. And I'm glad to hear your positive feedback for my guide. If there are any need for clarifications please feel free to ask!
LOL I had my dog companion with me, so I don't know if it counts as a "real" solo or not.
Something to maybe note:
The most recent testing with post-patch data shows that STR > CHA on a point for point basis, even with CA/stealth taken into account. It's not a mind-boggling difference, but it's there... like 4-5% IIRC. So if you are rolling a race that doesn't get a built-in CHA bonus -- head's up.
Also, the Disciple of Strength feat raises damage much more than the tooltip description of the feat would suggest, so for everybody rolling human rogues who have an extra 3 points to spend... maybe put them into DoS, rather than Scoundrel Training. Again, it's not a huge difference, but it's better.
Wow, I actually got my neck piece for 30k. I was lucky to have been able to spot it cheaply. I highly recommend the Signet of Unending Pain or Pale Bone Band for rings if you still do not have Pyrotechnic Bands. Pyro Bands can wait, what's important is a ring that covers Power, ArPen and Critical for maximized damage from Duelist's Fury. And I was also planning the same thing for this weekend's event. For the Defense Slots, you might want to consider Radiant Enchantments for the added HP. Life Steal works too, but having the extra HP can save our hide when we accidentally dodge into another red AoE zone that pops out because of our allies.
Yes 75k was the cheapest one... other end of the spectrum was ~1mil AD. I did get SoUPs X2 very nice ring for the price, did not see these Pyrotechnic Bands you mentioned. (Yikes checked AH just now these are 69-100k a whack!) Gotta admit though may be wise to spend some AD from other characters to get these before the whole BoP thing goes live.
The enchant farming is going nicely so I may pop in the Radiants, was planning to save them for the AH since 5s were going for 50-75k a whack on Dragon. (Down to 8k now...lol!)
Anyway I would like to take the time to personally thank you for all the effort you have put into hashing out this build. I am enjoying it thoroughly!
LOL I had my dog companion with me, so I don't know if it counts as a "real" solo or not.
Something to maybe note:
The most recent testing with post-patch data shows that STR > CHA on a point for point basis, even with CA/stealth taken into account. It's not a mind-boggling difference, but it's there... like 4-5% IIRC. So if you are rolling a race that doesn't get a built-in CHA bonus -- head's up.
Also, the Disciple of Strength feat raises damage much more than the tooltip description of the feat would suggest, so for everybody rolling human rogues who have an extra 3 points to spend... maybe put them into DoS, rather than Scoundrel Training. Again, it's not a huge difference, but it's better.
That's some pretty good info right there. If I could reroll to another character I'd probably go for human as well, and have STR + DEX as my main AB's. Also can you link me to the thread where you read that DoS is better than Scoundrel Training? I'm interested in seeing the figures. Thanks in advance, l0th4rio! Much appreciated.
Yes 75k was the cheapest one... other end of the spectrum was ~1mil AD. I did get SoUPs X2 very nice ring for the price, did not see these Pyrotechnic Bands you mentioned. (Yikes checked AH just now these are 69-100k a whack!) Gotta admit though may be wise to spend some AD from other characters to get these before the whole BoP thing goes live.
The enchant farming is going nicely so I may pop in the Radiants, was planning to save them for the AH since 5s were going for 50-75k a whack on Dragon. (Down to 8k now...lol!)
Anyway I would like to take the time to personally thank you for all the effort you have put into hashing out this build. I am enjoying it thoroughly!
Wow, Dragon has it hard it seems. I think it's the shard where there are more PVP-ers than PVE enthusiasts but we can never really say for sure. And it's been my pleasure burninnate! I hope you continue having fun with this build. However I seem to have a huge update on this build in which I really need to change for the guide.
Thank you very much For the reply. It helped a lot..!! PINOY! from baguio city. thanks BRO! ty ty ty
It's no prob man! Feel free to ask any questions if you have more. This here's a Pinoy from Quezon City and I hope you enjoy your game experience using this build.
Update: Hello, everyone. I am pleased (and a little displeased, since I failed to realize this sooner) to announce that this build is most likely going to change. While this current build is viable enough for PVP and PVE, from dabbling around in the Test Shard I managed to create what I think is a properly working permastealth build. I shall update this guide as soon as possible! What basically changed was one single Paragon Feat, which ended up making the build all the more "stealthy."
No longer do we have to go out of stealth in combat.
Edit: I also believe it may as well be possible to solo certain epic dungeons, provided that they do not have mobs that are able to detect us while in stealth. Massive testing will happen later as soon as I get home.
Comments
First and foremost I like Metzli's and Luna's guides a lot as it contains a lot of useful information.
If you really wish to purchase a T2 that works well with this Stealth build, I really, highly recommend Master Assassin. It increase your power by 4050 whenever you use Lurker's Assault. For some reason it multiplies the buff it gets from using a daily by 3 times using LA. In PVE, monsters hit so hard that they give us tremendous amounts of AP using the Bait and Switch dummy, so you'll tend to use Lurker's Assault a lot. I also like Sinister Shade, particularly because of the increase in Recovery, 1k+ is tremendous and it helps with AP. But nothing comes close to Master Assassin's buff. And I've also thought of the Master Duelist set. For some reason, however, it doesn't seem to work with Duelist's Fury. I'm interested to know when we can actually have a fixed version of this set though, because it really would be awesome if it worked properly with Duelist's Fury as it would shave off tons of our CD, allowing people to create a new set-centered permastealth build.
And oh man, Vorpal Enchant, how I absolutely would love to own even a regular version of it. Paired up with Combat Advantage crits, our DPS would boost tremendously. Sadly I don't have the resources for it but in theory it would work well with this build. I'm not particularly sure about where he got his statistics for that, but it must be from keen observation and experience. And what you say is true, very true in fact. I personally would choose Vorpal over Plague Fire. The 17% we get from T1 PVP set is good, and I probably am not planning to get my PVP set replaced for a while unless we see another set that gives out the same or better bonuses in stealth.
And yep, I also tend to sub Skillful Infiltrator and Sneak Attack for Tenacious Concealment and Tactics, depending on how much AoE is in the dungeon. If there aren't much, I just use Skillful Infiltrator and Tactics. 15% AP boost makes getting LA easier. Tenacious Concealment helps a lot for not revealing our position from AoE that sometimes flings along our way thanks to allies who provoke those AoE's. Smoke Bomb is sometimes good. In party play it helps your allies tremendously. But in boss fights, Impossible to Catch is an absolute must. Your allies should doing the same amount effort as you in staying alive to see the dungeon through. One of the possible weaknesses I see in our build would be we tend to die a whole lot slower (or not at all) when it comes to dungeons. And as such, it's tough to run pug group epic runs.
And thank you for the feedback and advise, Aciele. Much appreciated! I'll definitely include what stats to go for in the gear section. I haven't had the time to write recently due to RL being too taxing as of late, but it's the weekend right now where I live, so I think I can get to work on it later.
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Oh yeah about that rotation! I'm about to change that as I have found a better means to stay in Stealth for about 7 seconds longer using the same skills. I think I mentioned it in one of my previous replies to another forum poster in this guide. It takes some getting used to, but I'm pretty sure you'll be able to nail it soon enough. I assure you that you'll never need to go out of Stealth in between the rotation using this. Can you kindly try it out and see how it will perform for you? I'm pretty sure you'll get the same results as I am getting.
Rotation: Provided our target is a big target, we do...
- Stealth.
- Duelist's Fury.
- Some Sly Flourish.
- Shadow Strike. (Stealth Refill)
- Duelist's Fury.
- Some Sly Flourish.
- Bait and Switch. (Stealth Refill)
- Duelist's Fury.
- Some Sly Flourish.
- Shadow Strike. (Stealth Refill, Shadow Strike's C should have already been refilled at this point)
- Duelist's Fury.
- Sly Flourish.
- Impossible to Catch.
- Run away or attack a little bit more, wait for 2 - 3 seconds for Shadow Strike to refill and repeat the rotation.
I believe this should work for you, Aciele. I also manage to put 2 Duelist's Fury on my opponent in PVE if I stealthed up right next to it. The damage we do using Duelist's Fury slows done the Stealth depletion by a little bit, enough for us to use Bait and Switch, and not Shadow Strike because it takes like 1 second for the animation to finish up. I usually practice this rotation by the Training Dummies in Trade of Blades, and I'm pretty sure you can nail it too. If by any chance you are thinking of creating a variation of this build using another set, please feel free to do so. I'd like to see how else it can be played and hopefully, if it can be played better.
I really appreciate the questions and clarifications regarding this Stealth Build. It's always nice to have someone to converse these things with.
This is my first character here and I would like to keep it around for a long time and again thanks again for doing a lot of the legwork for the community with this build.
Well, on
- low - medium hp mobs i pop BnS first > AP these mobs die fast enough
2 combo of DF, yes, i was able to hit the nail on dummies, but its too close for me to trust on.
The pvp set offers 0 recovery so maybe its better to go for some to reduce the CD of BnS and SS.
Since i only worked a little on dummies but didnt play my rogue further. Im playing a GF at the moment and i can tell you: Its a hard start hitting for 50-100 after some few (little) burst. Rogue was funnier till now, a lot :-) (testing envy`s pvp guide)
Hi! And thank you so much for the kind words.
I have 14 CON due to me getting +12 on CON on my first roll. my WIS was 8 back then. Here is a screenie of my character. Please forgive the embarrassing low-tier items. I'm a fairly casual and poor player.
I hope you have a good experience for your first character using this build! If you have any more questions or if there are any clarifications needed, please feel free to lay your concerns in another reply to this thread. I'd be more than happy to assist you with them.
Well, let's just hope you come back to that rogue one of these days, man. Envy's Conqueror Guide is awesome. I myself have been in the process of building a GF spec-ed towards Envy's, but sadly I don't have enough time to play 2 characters at once so I tend to play more on Banelorne. I just need to complete a properly working gear setup for Gauntlgrym.
Thoughts?
I may have overlooked it but did you cover enchants?
And unfortunately I have not been able to cover the gear section of the guide yet.
does this build still work after the patch?
Yep! Post patch, it's still working wonderfully. It's mainly because this build is a stealth-based build which does not rely on Shocking Execution that much. Lurker's Assault + 12 charges of Cloud of Steel usually does much more damage and ends up shredding a CW, TR or DC's HP to 20% and most usually to the point of death. It also does not rely on the double snare glitches some PVP builds used to have, and is mainly untouched by the recent patch.
However, PVE-wise, I have felt the reduction in DPS due to the fact that DF Bleeds are now ticking much slower. But it still will not stop a Stealth Executioner from dealing competitive amounts of damage in PVE settings, mainly dungeons.
Other than that, Bait and Switch still replenishes stealth and gives tons of AP for Lurker's Assault, Shadow Strike still dazes people in stealth and replenishes Stealth, Lashing Blade still dishes out tremendous bursts of damage, but I still prefer Impossible to Catch over LB, specially in PVP where it allows you to survive escape even groups of 3 - 5 people when out of stealth.
Thank you so much for the kind words, and it's my pleasure to have been able to affirm your decisions for your TR.
Thx a lot and nice work, forgot to mention that! So I'll give it a try and wanna start to farm a T2 instance, which one would you recommend to start with and how long does it take you to clear? I think you should leave the most trash, don't you?
At this point I have blown all my funds on getting the pvp set and a few of the other items on your character sheet. I could not afford that nice neck you have (75k on Dragon) but I got something with similar but lower stats. Hopefully I will be able to transmute enough enchants this weekend to get most of the normal slots dealt with. Probably going with crit in the offense movement in utility and lifesteal in defense. I will worry about armor & weapon enchants later on once I get some income coming in.
Lets do this.
Ninja Squad, GO!
Also I'm curious where did you take the damage from if you're invisible the entire time?
I'm pretty sure it's because some mobs randomly attack and if you're unlucky, you'll take some hits. Also you could take some dmg from casters and aoe spells.
Thanks. And for T2 instances I highly enjoy Karrundax the most after the patch.
Wow, I actually got my neck piece for 30k. I was lucky to have been able to spot it cheaply. I highly recommend the Signet of Unending Pain or Pale Bone Band for rings if you still do not have Pyrotechnic Bands. Pyro Bands can wait, what's important is a ring that covers Power, ArPen and Critical for maximized damage from Duelist's Fury.
Thank you! It makes me happy to hear your interest in trying out this build! It may take some getting used to but I'm sure you'll find it enjoyable not dying easily.
Unlike x3lade's perma-stealth build, this stealth build only takes us to up to about 90% stealth uptime. Without Lurker's Assault, the longest we can go into stealth would be around half a minute. After that is over, it's either I use Impossible to Catch to escape all forms of damage for 5 seconds or use Smoke Bomb to Daze the enemies surrounding me while I dodge for extra minor Stealth refills. From testing, I determined that Impossible to Catch is a much better choice than Smoke Bomb for escaping damage, but Smoke Bomb is a much better choice in party play as your entire party benefits from it.
And what xmorphx204 said is also true. Sometimes enemies will randomly attack at a certain direction when we attack them. Examples are Flame Spikers and Ash Disciples from Karrundax, Blade Masters from Temple of the Spider, and the frost wolves from Grey Wolf Den. Those are but a few examples and I'm pretty sure there are more of them, just can't remember which ones at the moment.
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Thanks again!
1st question . What stats is for TR (eg. Armor Penetration, Defense,Power,Regenaration, Etc) what do we really need for this build??
2nd question is . Im a human TR.. so the extra 3 feats. what feat should i get from it??
3rd question is How can i also get the (30 sec stealth)? it seems my stealth is not 30seconds..
4th question is - Is this TR build good for New and Not Rich Players Like me? Should You recommend this for a New Player Like me??
5th questiong is - is this TR build Needs a high end Armors and weapons??
Hmm dunno if I understand this correct, but do you solo Karrundax or playing in a Grp, cause you are saying something about leaving mobs for a gwf? If you do it completly solo, how long does it take you to clear it? Do you have a video for us to see how you do it?
Good strategy. And it's true that we lose a LOT of DPS skills due to Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike, but in return we gain survivability. Against most other classes and players who are not familiar with dealing with Stealth Rogues, they most usually do not know what to do against us. I most usually get taunted because of people not seeing where I am when I kill them. I die from time to time due to highly skilled players, but I tend to just avoid the dangerous people and concentrate on doing what I can to help win the match.
I'm extra wary whenever I see a familiar name in PVP. You can usually catch me PVP-ing during these times bro. I sure hope if I meet you, I'd get you as an ally and not an opponent.
Wow, soloed CT with a 17 Rogue. I remember dying in there back when I was a newbie, and I had 3 people with me. We gave up eventually. I say keep it up, man. You have the knack for the TR in my opinion. And I'm glad to hear your positive feedback for my guide. If there are any need for clarifications please feel free to ask!
Hey, Atoy. What a coincidence, I'm also from the Philippines. It almost makes me feel like I know you from somewhere and you're trolling me.
1. I'll add this sometime tomorrow in the gear section of the guide. To answer your question, however, You'll want as much Crit, ArPen and Power for increased damage. Those are the top 3 stats you want to stack on. The order of the stats are as follows.
Critical will help us increase our damage in PVE in the long run and we try to abuse critical hits as much as possible. Power and ArPen are both in my 2nd place due to the fact that they help even out your damage versus most types of mobs. Based on Metzli's guide, one of the most trusted guide's I read for the theorycraft, 22% is the average ArPen most monsters have. You'll need around 2k ArPen which will be easy to attain via the PVP set. Even better, once the Gauntlgrym gear comes out, the Battlefield Skulker set gives more of our needed stats at higher rates. So look out for that one as well.
2. Since you're a human, you absolutely must take the Scoundrel Training feat which will increase your damage against enemies that do not target you. Since you are at Stealth most of the times, you get to abuse this 9% increase a lot.
3. For the 30 second stealth, you might want to read up a bit about the rotation of this build. Our Stealth at most lasts around 8 seconds. The first 8 seconds come from regular Stealth (TAB), 2nd comes from Shadow Strike refill, 3rd from Bait and Switch refill, 4th from another Shadow Strike refill because it would have already been filled up before your 3rd refill of Stealth runs out. You may need to use Dodge sometimes to get a bit of Stealth from Twilight Adept feat.
If you wish to increase this further, you can use Lurker's Assault to extend your Stealth by 10 seconds. After those 10 seconds are done, Bait and Switch as well as Shadow Strike would have already been filled up, meaning you can start the rotation all over again, further extending your stealth from 30 + 10 (LA) + another 30 from the new rotation. You can go up to stealth for more than a minute if played right.
4. YES. I highly recommend it. I myself am a casual player and I'm not planning to spend a single cent in the game. The challenge of a game is to become good at it without the use of monetary assistance, but that is just my opinion. It feels more rewarding that way. The gear in which my build needs are really cheap, excluding the pants and shirt. Everyone needs a gemmed epic pants/shirt. Pyrotechnic Bands (I just recently got 2 of my own) can be replaced by Pale Bone Band and Signet of Unending Pain. They are short of +50 Crit, but are nonetheless one of the best cheap gear casual players like ourselves can enjoy and use.
5. Not at all, really. You can go for high end weapons and armor, but I recommend the PVP set more than any other set in the game right, even the T2 ones. The +20% stealth we can get from the PVP set can give us the needed amount of time to be able to make the rotations work properly. More stealth = more HP intact, more HP intact = more time to hit people, eventually killing them if they're not a GF.
If you have any other questions just feel free to ask!
I'm sorry for the confusion, xmorph. For any epic dungeon, it's a complete must for anyone to have a party no matter how high its solo capability is. It's absolutely impossible to legitimately solo a T2 dungeon for anyone, in my opinion. Using this build I believe one can do so (and I will be attempting it at a later point in time), but it might take that person a really long span of time. One shall also need to be extra careful. I have soloed normal Karrundax, however I didn't get the chance to take a screenie. All I need now is to solo normal Dread Vaults. I will be soloing normal Karrundax again, just so I can complete my collection of screenshots. After I do Dread Vaults however I shall be attempting epic dungeons so I can further test how far this build can take me in solo situations.
I'll try to record a video one of these days but I'll apologize in advance since my gaming computer is not that high end. It might not look good at all.
LOL I had my dog companion with me, so I don't know if it counts as a "real" solo or not.
Something to maybe note:
The most recent testing with post-patch data shows that STR > CHA on a point for point basis, even with CA/stealth taken into account. It's not a mind-boggling difference, but it's there... like 4-5% IIRC. So if you are rolling a race that doesn't get a built-in CHA bonus -- head's up.
Also, the Disciple of Strength feat raises damage much more than the tooltip description of the feat would suggest, so for everybody rolling human rogues who have an extra 3 points to spend... maybe put them into DoS, rather than Scoundrel Training. Again, it's not a huge difference, but it's better.
Yes 75k was the cheapest one... other end of the spectrum was ~1mil AD. I did get SoUPs X2 very nice ring for the price, did not see these Pyrotechnic Bands you mentioned. (Yikes checked AH just now these are 69-100k a whack!) Gotta admit though may be wise to spend some AD from other characters to get these before the whole BoP thing goes live.
The enchant farming is going nicely so I may pop in the Radiants, was planning to save them for the AH since 5s were going for 50-75k a whack on Dragon. (Down to 8k now...lol!)
Anyway I would like to take the time to personally thank you for all the effort you have put into hashing out this build. I am enjoying it thoroughly!
That's some pretty good info right there. If I could reroll to another character I'd probably go for human as well, and have STR + DEX as my main AB's. Also can you link me to the thread where you read that DoS is better than Scoundrel Training? I'm interested in seeing the figures. Thanks in advance, l0th4rio! Much appreciated.
Wow, Dragon has it hard it seems. I think it's the shard where there are more PVP-ers than PVE enthusiasts but we can never really say for sure. And it's been my pleasure burninnate! I hope you continue having fun with this build. However I seem to have a huge update on this build in which I really need to change for the guide.
It's no prob man! Feel free to ask any questions if you have more.
No longer do we have to go out of stealth in combat.
Edit: I also believe it may as well be possible to solo certain epic dungeons, provided that they do not have mobs that are able to detect us while in stealth. Massive testing will happen later as soon as I get home.