I just finished an extended amount of testing ( 2 hours ) and here are my results.
Bleed now recalculates once it hits the 10th stack. Meaning every tick will be different. No more riding the crit ticks, the ticks will now vary from 400 damage to my max was 9k...this results in a rough loss of DPS equal to 20 % on Boss encounters.
Total Nerf Percentage = 20 %
Lurkers Assault warps you onto the mobs head possibly killing you ( Spellplague etc.. ) , lasts for 7 seconds, no significant damage increase over a 2 hours, Crit severity increase doesn't show on extended damage parse, so not sure if it is even being calculated, and the cool black and white effect is now gone. Lurkers is effectively a waste of 3 points.
Loss of 60 % Damage is irreplaceable.
Total Nerf Percentage : 20 % Damage per second, 60 % Damage while Lurkers used to run.
Loss of Stealth while DPS'ing on boss mobs. Most rogues are crafty enough to hit stealth off and on while runningthrough their rotations on Boss mobs, and stealth lasting roughly 6 seconds previously would allow to maintain 100 % + Crit while DPSing the boss..
This is now gone as Stealth falls off roughly halfway through 1 Duelists Flurry so you do not gain the benefit of a full run while in stealth for the crit bonuses. Damage loss factored in the 10 % range.
Overall this is what we will see if this build goes live.
20 % loss to Bleed
60 % loss to Lurkers Damage when active
10 % loss of Stealth based Crit DPS...
Overall on an encounter it is found that we are looking at a 30 % loss of DPS overall with no survivability added in to offset the loss of damage.
that is 30 % longer it will take to kill bosses, which increases the chance of something going wrong and an event wiping, and people wasting 2 hours of their life to get to a boss that the average group will struggle to kill.
GG Cryptic.
Yeah, this is kinda sad. I'm not saying the game is going to die right away...but there is so much wrong with this update that if the devs don't realize and go live with it, it simply says too much about their ability to push this game forward...this nerf is an out of touch joke.
I just finished an extended amount of testing ( 2 hours ) and here are my results.
Bleed now recalculates once it hits the 10th stack. Meaning every tick will be different. No more riding the crit ticks, the ticks will now vary from 400 damage to my max was 9k...this results in a rough loss of DPS equal to 20 % on Boss encounters.
Total Nerf Percentage = 20 %
Lurkers Assault warps you onto the mobs head possibly killing you ( Spellplague etc.. ) , lasts for 7 seconds, no significant damage increase over a 2 hours, Crit severity increase doesn't show on extended damage parse, so not sure if it is even being calculated, and the cool black and white effect is now gone. Lurkers is effectively a waste of 3 points.
Loss of 60 % Damage is irreplaceable.
Total Nerf Percentage : 20 % Damage per second, 60 % Damage while Lurkers used to run.
Loss of Stealth while DPS'ing on boss mobs. Most rogues are crafty enough to hit stealth off and on while runningthrough their rotations on Boss mobs, and stealth lasting roughly 6 seconds previously would allow to maintain 100 % + Crit while DPSing the boss..
This is now gone as Stealth falls off roughly halfway through 1 Duelists Flurry so you do not gain the benefit of a full run while in stealth for the crit bonuses. Damage loss factored in the 10 % range.
Overall this is what we will see if this build goes live.
20 % loss to Bleed
60 % loss to Lurkers Damage when active
10 % loss of Stealth based Crit DPS...
Overall on an encounter it is found that we are looking at a 30 % loss of DPS overall with no survivability added in to offset the loss of damage.
that is 30 % longer it will take to kill bosses, which increases the chance of something going wrong and an event wiping, and people wasting 2 hours of their life to get to a boss that the average group will struggle to kill.
GG Cryptic.
Thanks for the analysis. I wonder how did these suggested changes even leave the brainstorming session at the office? I think somebody's going to get fired.
I just finished an extended amount of testing ( 2 hours ) and here are my results.
Bleed now recalculates once it hits the 10th stack. Meaning every tick will be different. No more riding the crit ticks, the ticks will now vary from 400 damage to my max was 9k...this results in a rough loss of DPS equal to 20 % on Boss encounters.
Total Nerf Percentage = 20 %
Lurkers Assault warps you onto the mobs head possibly killing you ( Spellplague etc.. ) , lasts for 7 seconds, no significant damage increase over a 2 hours, Crit severity increase doesn't show on extended damage parse, so not sure if it is even being calculated, and the cool black and white effect is now gone. Lurkers is effectively a waste of 3 points.
Loss of 60 % Damage is irreplaceable.
Total Nerf Percentage : 20 % Damage per second, 60 % Damage while Lurkers used to run.
Loss of Stealth while DPS'ing on boss mobs. Most rogues are crafty enough to hit stealth off and on while runningthrough their rotations on Boss mobs, and stealth lasting roughly 6 seconds previously would allow to maintain 100 % + Crit while DPSing the boss..
This is now gone as Stealth falls off roughly halfway through 1 Duelists Flurry so you do not gain the benefit of a full run while in stealth for the crit bonuses. Damage loss factored in the 10 % range.
Overall this is what we will see if this build goes live.
20 % loss to Bleed
60 % loss to Lurkers Damage when active
10 % loss of Stealth based Crit DPS...
Overall on an encounter it is found that we are looking at a 30 % loss of DPS overall with no survivability added in to offset the loss of damage.
that is 30 % longer it will take to kill bosses, which increases the chance of something going wrong and an event wiping, and people wasting 2 hours of their life to get to a boss that the average group will struggle to kill.
I'm afraid people won't see it if it's only posted here. I want everybody to see it, and I especially want non-rogues to see it and realise that these class changes aren't just going to effect rogues, they're going to negatively impact everybody's PvE experience!
Yeah, this is kinda sad. I'm not saying the game is going to die right away...but there is so much wrong with this update that if the devs don't realize and go live with it, it simply says too much about their ability to push this game forward...this nerf is an out of touch joke.
To me these changes bring new life and potential to the game. I think maybe players that left might come back and not only that with fixing the bugged rogue class this shows that they are trying to move into the right direction and make NW a great game. I had my doubts but these great changes do nothing but make this game better and more players will probably play. So this is exciting.
To me these changes bring new life and potential to the game. I think maybe players that left might come back and not only that with fixing the bugged rogue class this shows that they are trying to move into the right direction and make NW a great game. I had my doubts but these great changes do nothing but make this game better and more players will probably play. So this is exciting.
I agree with you. TR's are a bit too strong and the cloud of steel change was great.
I just finished an extended amount of testing ( 2 hours ) and here are my results.
Bleed now recalculates once it hits the 10th stack. Meaning every tick will be different. No more riding the crit ticks, the ticks will now vary from 400 damage to my max was 9k...this results in a rough loss of DPS equal to 20 % on Boss encounters.
Total Nerf Percentage = 20 %
Lurkers Assault warps you onto the mobs head possibly killing you ( Spellplague etc.. ) , lasts for 7 seconds, no significant damage increase over a 2 hours, Crit severity increase doesn't show on extended damage parse, so not sure if it is even being calculated, and the cool black and white effect is now gone. Lurkers is effectively a waste of 3 points.
Loss of 60 % Damage is irreplaceable.
Total Nerf Percentage : 20 % Damage per second, 60 % Damage while Lurkers used to run.
Loss of Stealth while DPS'ing on boss mobs. Most rogues are crafty enough to hit stealth off and on while runningthrough their rotations on Boss mobs, and stealth lasting roughly 6 seconds previously would allow to maintain 100 % + Crit while DPSing the boss..
This is now gone as Stealth falls off roughly halfway through 1 Duelists Flurry so you do not gain the benefit of a full run while in stealth for the crit bonuses. Damage loss factored in the 10 % range.
Overall this is what we will see if this build goes live.
20 % loss to Bleed
60 % loss to Lurkers Damage when active
10 % loss of Stealth based Crit DPS...
Overall on an encounter it is found that we are looking at a 30 % loss of DPS overall with no survivability added in to offset the loss of damage.
that is 30 % longer it will take to kill bosses, which increases the chance of something going wrong and an event wiping, and people wasting 2 hours of their life to get to a boss that the average group will struggle to kill.
GG Cryptic.
Sounds like good stuff. I think the balance and new dungeons will be great very much looking forward to it. I think players/rogue are now taking the well this will hurt dungeons and the rest of my team for PvE approach. Well in the first place a single class is not supposed to be carrying or doing everything and these adjustments are being put in place so hopefully the dungeon experience is better which is the main goal for the game. I am looking forward to doing dungeons now and this big patch to see what we are working with and I like the effort to make the game better with brining classes inline and balanced.
Has anyone been able to test how bad it actually is? They didn't provide any detail so far as I know just how much stealth leech the at wills cause, and I'm curious if it is as bad as it sounds.
It's bad, very bad. This effectively means that a TR is now a very squishy fighter without any significant means of damage mitigation. Not only does it take significantly longer to kill things, you will take far more damage in the process. The at-wills shred stealth, which means that unless they turn sneak attack back into a damage bonus as it a) should be and b) used to be, that TR's are now operating at a significant disadvantage to every other class.
So while the sock-puppeting anti-TR kids are happy, this means that TR's are about to become a very broken class in PvE and even more so in PvP.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
It's bad, very bad. This effectively means that a TR is now a very squishy fighter without any significant means of damage mitigation. Not only does it take significantly longer to kill things, you will take far more damage in the process. The at-wills shred stealth, which means that unless they turn sneak attack back into a damage bonus as it a) should be and b) used to be, that TR's are now operating at a significant disadvantage to every other class.
So while the sock-puppeting anti-TR kids are happy, this means that TR's are about to become a very broken class in PvE and even more so in PvP.
not really, on pvp rogues will remain fine, the real punch was on pve, cant disagree there.
Its kinda ironic though, the anti TR kids cried so much for nerfs on the class that was beating them on pvp, and the nerf arrived ruining the other end of the rope (PVE)
not really, on pvp rogues will remain fine, the real punch was on pve, cant disagree there.
Its kinda ironic though, the anti TR kids cried so much for nerfs on the class that was beating them on pvp, and the nerf arrived ruining the other end of the rope (PVE)
yea, partially true.
permastealth still viable and pvp potency unaffected.
No, the irony is its those who don't really pvp much were the ones crying for a nerf to TR's, not realising it will effect them more as they pve and thats where it will hurt the most.
The other obvious fact, is the % of people moaning will be way less than those they lose because of what they have done.
I just hope that once they realise how stupidly over the top they have gone, it's cost them plenty, only way to make companies realise is in there pocket.
Even more funnier is they don't learn from other mmo's.
Knee jerk reactions don't work, this will be a huge fail.
It's bad, very bad. This effectively means that a TR is now a very squishy fighter without any significant means of damage mitigation. Not only does it take significantly longer to kill things, you will take far more damage in the process. The at-wills shred stealth, which means that unless they turn sneak attack back into a damage bonus as it a) should be and b) used to be, that TR's are now operating at a significant disadvantage to every other class.
I was hoping that the longer activation time of Gloaming Cut, supported by Sneaky Stabber, wouldn't drain stealth as quickly as the other at-wills, so that it would be the least harmful to use when trying to maintain stealth as long as possible.
It doesn't look like that will be the case, though.
I'll have to see how it goes when it hits the main server.
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gonzals90Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2013
as defense and utility slots, which enchantment you used to the equipment?
I use Radiant for Defense for added HP. This will increase your room for error just in case you accidentally get attacked in PVP or PVE. For Utility, I use Dark Enchantments for the added move speed. When I'm at stealth I can run much faster than a 50% Movement Speed mount and this can be particularly useful for closing gaps fast, and for escaping. However, after the intended nerfs for TR's, this build will be drastically damaged.
However, I bring good news!:) This PVE permastealth build that can do damage via at-wills is still very possible after the patch. I'll disclose the details once I finish testing, and probably after rerolling a new TR.
However, I bring good news!:) This PVE permastealth build that can do damage via at-wills is still very possible after the patch. I'll disclose the details once I finish testing, and probably after rerolling a new TR.
as long you arent using invisible infiltrator for that build..
Heh. Even with Invisible Infiltrator, it's still hard to create a working PVE permastealth with how the build is right now. It doesn't help that our AP gain is absurdly slow as well. But from testing via the Preview Server, I found that the build isn't entirely dead. It just needs a few adjustments from here and there in order to create a permastealth. I would hate farming for a new Skulker set but oh well, it has to be done.
However I still would prefer if things stayed the way they are right now, with our current stealth mechanics and Lurker's Assault.
I was hoping that the longer activation time of Gloaming Cut, supported by Sneaky Stabber, wouldn't drain stealth as quickly as the other at-wills, so that it would be the least harmful to use when trying to maintain stealth as long as possible.
It doesn't look like that will be the case, though.
I'll have to see how it goes when it hits the main server.
Drain looks to largely be uniform, with the longer activation time of gloaming cut draining stealth as rapidly as striking more quickly with sly flourish.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Drain looks to largely be uniform, with the longer activation time of gloaming cut draining stealth as rapidly as striking more quickly with sly flourish.
That's what it's looking like alright. I don't know if it would be worse with Gloaming Cut without Sneaky Stabber, or if Sneaky Stabber isn't working on test, or if it's simply an issue of Sneaky Stabber not making enough difference to matter with things as they are there.
However, it seems todesfaelle has a handle on it, and I know I'm pretty close to getting what I need, so I have no doubt that a PvE solution will be found if the changes on test are implemented as they are now.
Edit: Well, I've done some more testing. It seems to me as things are on test that Gloaming Cut with Sneaky Stabber is no longer providing the benefit it used to, or if it is that the benefit is no longer of similar value.
The two together seem to empty out the bar just as quickly as Sly Flourish, but with Sly Flourish having a shorter animation time it is easier to reapply stealth with as one can more quickly break off the attack. With stealth dropping more quickly, the shorter animation could be better.
It may be wise to drop Gloaming Cut + Sneaky Stabber, use Sly Flourish in it's place, and replace Sneaky Stabber with a different feat altogether.
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gonzals90Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
I use Radiant for Defense for added HP. This will increase your room for error just in case you accidentally get attacked in PVP or PVE. For Utility, I use Dark Enchantments for the added move speed. When I'm at stealth I can run much faster than a 50% Movement Speed mount and this can be particularly useful for closing gaps fast, and for escaping. However, after the intended nerfs for TR's, this build will be drastically damaged.
However, I bring good news!:) This PVE permastealth build that can do damage via at-wills is still very possible after the patch. I'll disclose the details once I finish testing, and probably after rerolling a new TR.
Edit: Well, I've done some more testing. It seems to me as things are on test that Gloaming Cut with Sneaky Stabber is no longer providing the benefit it used to, or if it is that the benefit is no longer of similar value.
The two together seem to empty out the bar just as quickly as Sly Flourish, but with Sly Flourish having a shorter animation time it is easier to reapply stealth with as one can more quickly break off the attack. With stealth dropping more quickly, the shorter animation could be better.
It may be wise to drop Gloaming Cut + Sneaky Stabber, use Sly Flourish in it's place, and replace Sneaky Stabber with a different feat altogether.
That is what I have found as well, and it is another loss to DPS since even with the slower activation time you would do far more damage with Gloaming Cut than Sly Flourish.
What I can't tell yet is whether or not they broke Sneaky Stabber or the damage done by Gloaming Cut is draining more stealth than Sly Flourish.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Sounds like good stuff. I think the balance and new dungeons will be great very much looking forward to it. I think players/rogue are now taking the well this will hurt dungeons and the rest of my team for PvE approach. Well in the first place a single class is not supposed to be carrying or doing everything and these adjustments are being put in place so hopefully the dungeon experience is better which is the main goal for the game. I am looking forward to doing dungeons now and this big patch to see what we are working with and I like the effort to make the game better with brining classes inline and balanced.
Please stop posting on these threads. You are obviously one of the people that couldnt handle fighting a TR so instead of learning how to counter them you just quit whenever theres a TR in your pvp matches and cry nerf on thew forums. Well you got your wish and cryptic has effectively broken there only single target DPS class in PvE and TRs in pvp are left mostly unchanged. You will still be crying nerf and leaving Pvp matched because you cant handle a TR so please leave these posts to people that are discussing the changes. Ive seen you post on every single thread about these changes with the same things over and over again and you get shot down by everyone. The fact that you cant see the impact that this kind of nerf has is funny. People like you are the reason PWE/Cryptic will get away with heavy handed nerfs in the future. Lets see how you feel when your class gets nerfed to the ground by severe over nerfing in a single patch. The fact that you think this "balances" the game shows your extreame ignorance of balance.
That is what I have found as well, and it is another loss to DPS since even with the slower activation time you would do far more damage with Gloaming Cut than Sly Flourish.
What I can't tell yet is whether or not they broke Sneaky Stabber or the damage done by Gloaming Cut is draining more stealth than Sly Flourish.
It's hard to tell what's causing it. I do know that at the moment it's harder for me to stay in stealth using Gloaming Cut than Sly Flourish due to the timing of things, so I may have to take the damage loss to maintain it more consistently.
I seem to have received different results, however. I'm using the Skulker set and Improved Cunning Sneak for a total boost of 45% Stealth Meter. What I'm getting is when Gloaming Cut is feated with Sneaky Stabber, the loss in Stealth by using At-Wills is counteracted by the 10% Stealth Regeneration of Sneaky Stabber. So it's as if the at-will nerf didn't exist at all, but the Sneaky Stabber boost isn't good enough to retain the build as it is.
What I found however is that when taking the Saboteur Path, the extra dodges I can do in Stealth help regenerate extra Stealth to the point where all I need in order to do the 2nd round of Stealth Refill encounters (Bait and Switch) was 2 seconds. Bait and Switch has a Cooldown of 24 seconds if I remember correctly. If we can just reduce that by 2 seconds (Approx 10% Recharge Speed Increase), we can create a permastealth that can still do damage while in stealth. We'll need to stack Recovery in order to do this.
By combining x3lade's INT setup and findings, as well as this guide's feat setup, we may be able continue to play as a PVE permastealth. We'll need 25% RSI (including the 10% bonus from INT). Getting the other 15% RSI will be easy enough with blues and R7 silveries.
PVP, in my opinion, is out of the question now. Unless a player stacks Greater Tenebrous on his offense slots, the risks he'll be taking by getting close to opponents and using Gloaming Cut to do damage is far too great. When I PVP, I tend to whittle down my enemy's HP via Cloud of Steel's 12 stacks. Getting close to use Gloaming Cut requires me to dodge as soon as my Gloaming Cut hits.
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gonzals90Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
I seem to have received different results, however. I'm using the Skulker set and Improved Cunning Sneak for a total boost of 45% Stealth Meter. What I'm getting is when Gloaming Cut is feated with Sneaky Stabber, the loss in Stealth by using At-Wills is counteracted by the 10% Stealth Regeneration of Sneaky Stabber. So it's as if the at-will nerf didn't exist at all, but the Sneaky Stabber boost isn't good enough to retain the build as it is.
What I found however is that when taking the Saboteur Path, the extra dodges I can do in Stealth help regenerate extra Stealth to the point where all I need in order to do the 2nd round of Stealth Refill encounters (Bait and Switch) was 2 seconds. Bait and Switch has a Cooldown of 24 seconds if I remember correctly. If we can just reduce that by 2 seconds (Approx 10% Recharge Speed Increase), we can create a permastealth that can still do damage while in stealth. We'll need to stack Recovery in order to do this.
By combining x3lade's INT setup and findings, as well as this guide's feat setup, we may be able continue to play as a PVE permastealth. We'll need 25% RSI (including the 10% bonus from INT). Getting the other 15% RSI will be easy enough with blues and R7 silveries.
PVP, in my opinion, is out of the question now. Unless a player stacks Greater Tenebrous on his offense slots, the risks he'll be taking by getting close to opponents and using Gloaming Cut to do damage is far too great. When I PVP, I tend to whittle down my enemy's HP via Cloud of Steel's 12 stacks. Getting close to use Gloaming Cut requires me to dodge as soon as my Gloaming Cut hits.
I'm using the Stalker Set, so have a bit less stealth bar. What I did was keep the build as per your original post, but substitute in the gear from the heavy recharge gear setup another posted later on, that you made reference to in your contributors section. It is essentially unchanged from that, other than I am using Rank 6 Enhancements and Runestones (using now a Stone to boost the recharge further than I could with equipment alone).
I'm pretty close to maintaining perma-stealth, but it's a bit too razor edge for me to do it consistently with my keyboard skills. However, I have not finished placing in all the recharge enhancements and runestones, so it is quite possible I will be able to do it consistently when this is done. As it is, I find it easier to maintain stealth using attacks with shorter animation time than Gloaming.
Without the benefit of a Stone, it would probably have to be an Int build, to capture the extra recharge needed.
Hi Guys/Girls Can some one Help me out, i've spent 1/2 hour reading every Post on this thread to get all view points to see how I can best maximise my DPS
All my tests ive done are via
1: PVP Dummys
2: PVP MAtches
3: Mobs 52:54:57:59
My Gear Consists off,
Full Swashbucklers Set
Ion Stone of allure
Ancient Dagger/Shiv
25% Vorpal Enchant
Tier 7 gems in ancient/grand items
Executioners Build
Power: 5665 +/-
Critical: 49%
ARP: 900
Recovery: 2600
Best I have seen Lashing blade go is 12-14k but some of you have mentioned 20-30k ?
Shocking Execution I constantly get 40-49k so I'm happy with this, would like to know if anyone has had higher since then 60% nerf?
To get a 20K plus lashing blade Centur1an, you will need to be in stealth with lurker's up against a target who has been plague fire'd at least once or have no mitigation.
You have solid gear and stats, I would suggest buffing your Armor Penetration to consistently increase your DPS.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Lurker's Assault is a huge help (and probably the most viable way) to getting big numbers for Lashing Blade. As well as a Perfect Vorpal Enchantment to further boost that damage. What you'll want to look out for is the Overrun Critical buff we get from proc-ing a crit. Once you see that Overrun Critical is active, do a Lashing Blade and it's guaranteed to give huge numbers.
Also, I'm currently on the process of leveling a new TR. A Sab TR whose aim is to get full permastealth for PVE that can still do decent damage via at-wills without popping out of stealth. It's still very possible as Gloaming Cut feated with Sneaky Stabber while wearing the Battlefield Skulker set seems to counteract the loss of stealth our at-will does via the regen Sneaky Stabber gives. We'll be investing a whole lot on INT and Recovery, though.
But let's hope our dear developers do not destroy our class by pushing through with the nerf. There are a whole lot of better ways to address the concerns of the people who are not able to deal with stealth. Not to mention a lot of our feats and class features will be rendered useless once Stealth is changed.
Oh. And I had a nice conversation with Lichlament a while back in the game. I'm glad I caught you on Trade of Blades, man! You're a fun person to talk to.
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nzscopezzzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
the most boring and cowardly build ever, i used to use it, good cookie cutters will still find and own you.
Comments
Yeah, this is kinda sad. I'm not saying the game is going to die right away...but there is so much wrong with this update that if the devs don't realize and go live with it, it simply says too much about their ability to push this game forward...this nerf is an out of touch joke.
Thanks for the analysis. I wonder how did these suggested changes even leave the brainstorming session at the office? I think somebody's going to get fired.
Lichlament can you post these findings in the 'If The New Changes Go Live' thread in the General forum: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?414991-If-The-New-Changes-Go-Live
I'm afraid people won't see it if it's only posted here. I want everybody to see it, and I especially want non-rogues to see it and realise that these class changes aren't just going to effect rogues, they're going to negatively impact everybody's PvE experience!
To me these changes bring new life and potential to the game. I think maybe players that left might come back and not only that with fixing the bugged rogue class this shows that they are trying to move into the right direction and make NW a great game. I had my doubts but these great changes do nothing but make this game better and more players will probably play. So this is exciting.
I agree with you. TR's are a bit too strong and the cloud of steel change was great.
Sounds like good stuff. I think the balance and new dungeons will be great very much looking forward to it. I think players/rogue are now taking the well this will hurt dungeons and the rest of my team for PvE approach. Well in the first place a single class is not supposed to be carrying or doing everything and these adjustments are being put in place so hopefully the dungeon experience is better which is the main goal for the game. I am looking forward to doing dungeons now and this big patch to see what we are working with and I like the effort to make the game better with brining classes inline and balanced.
It's bad, very bad. This effectively means that a TR is now a very squishy fighter without any significant means of damage mitigation. Not only does it take significantly longer to kill things, you will take far more damage in the process. The at-wills shred stealth, which means that unless they turn sneak attack back into a damage bonus as it a) should be and b) used to be, that TR's are now operating at a significant disadvantage to every other class.
So while the sock-puppeting anti-TR kids are happy, this means that TR's are about to become a very broken class in PvE and even more so in PvP.
not really, on pvp rogues will remain fine, the real punch was on pve, cant disagree there.
Its kinda ironic though, the anti TR kids cried so much for nerfs on the class that was beating them on pvp, and the nerf arrived ruining the other end of the rope (PVE)
yea, partially true.
permastealth still viable and pvp potency unaffected.
Pve... SHAFTED
The other obvious fact, is the % of people moaning will be way less than those they lose because of what they have done.
I just hope that once they realise how stupidly over the top they have gone, it's cost them plenty, only way to make companies realise is in there pocket.
Even more funnier is they don't learn from other mmo's.
Knee jerk reactions don't work, this will be a huge fail.
I was hoping that the longer activation time of Gloaming Cut, supported by Sneaky Stabber, wouldn't drain stealth as quickly as the other at-wills, so that it would be the least harmful to use when trying to maintain stealth as long as possible.
It doesn't look like that will be the case, though.
I'll have to see how it goes when it hits the main server.
However, I bring good news!:) This PVE permastealth build that can do damage via at-wills is still very possible after the patch. I'll disclose the details once I finish testing, and probably after rerolling a new TR.
as long you arent using invisible infiltrator for that build..
However I still would prefer if things stayed the way they are right now, with our current stealth mechanics and Lurker's Assault.
Drain looks to largely be uniform, with the longer activation time of gloaming cut draining stealth as rapidly as striking more quickly with sly flourish.
That's what it's looking like alright. I don't know if it would be worse with Gloaming Cut without Sneaky Stabber, or if Sneaky Stabber isn't working on test, or if it's simply an issue of Sneaky Stabber not making enough difference to matter with things as they are there.
However, it seems todesfaelle has a handle on it, and I know I'm pretty close to getting what I need, so I have no doubt that a PvE solution will be found if the changes on test are implemented as they are now.
Edit: Well, I've done some more testing. It seems to me as things are on test that Gloaming Cut with Sneaky Stabber is no longer providing the benefit it used to, or if it is that the benefit is no longer of similar value.
The two together seem to empty out the bar just as quickly as Sly Flourish, but with Sly Flourish having a shorter animation time it is easier to reapply stealth with as one can more quickly break off the attack. With stealth dropping more quickly, the shorter animation could be better.
It may be wise to drop Gloaming Cut + Sneaky Stabber, use Sly Flourish in it's place, and replace Sneaky Stabber with a different feat altogether.
Utility and Defense rank 6 or 7?
That is what I have found as well, and it is another loss to DPS since even with the slower activation time you would do far more damage with Gloaming Cut than Sly Flourish.
What I can't tell yet is whether or not they broke Sneaky Stabber or the damage done by Gloaming Cut is draining more stealth than Sly Flourish.
Please stop posting on these threads. You are obviously one of the people that couldnt handle fighting a TR so instead of learning how to counter them you just quit whenever theres a TR in your pvp matches and cry nerf on thew forums. Well you got your wish and cryptic has effectively broken there only single target DPS class in PvE and TRs in pvp are left mostly unchanged. You will still be crying nerf and leaving Pvp matched because you cant handle a TR so please leave these posts to people that are discussing the changes. Ive seen you post on every single thread about these changes with the same things over and over again and you get shot down by everyone. The fact that you cant see the impact that this kind of nerf has is funny. People like you are the reason PWE/Cryptic will get away with heavy handed nerfs in the future. Lets see how you feel when your class gets nerfed to the ground by severe over nerfing in a single patch. The fact that you think this "balances" the game shows your extreame ignorance of balance.
It's hard to tell what's causing it. I do know that at the moment it's harder for me to stay in stealth using Gloaming Cut than Sly Flourish due to the timing of things, so I may have to take the damage loss to maintain it more consistently.
What I found however is that when taking the Saboteur Path, the extra dodges I can do in Stealth help regenerate extra Stealth to the point where all I need in order to do the 2nd round of Stealth Refill encounters (Bait and Switch) was 2 seconds. Bait and Switch has a Cooldown of 24 seconds if I remember correctly. If we can just reduce that by 2 seconds (Approx 10% Recharge Speed Increase), we can create a permastealth that can still do damage while in stealth. We'll need to stack Recovery in order to do this.
By combining x3lade's INT setup and findings, as well as this guide's feat setup, we may be able continue to play as a PVE permastealth. We'll need 25% RSI (including the 10% bonus from INT). Getting the other 15% RSI will be easy enough with blues and R7 silveries.
PVP, in my opinion, is out of the question now. Unless a player stacks Greater Tenebrous on his offense slots, the risks he'll be taking by getting close to opponents and using Gloaming Cut to do damage is far too great. When I PVP, I tend to whittle down my enemy's HP via Cloud of Steel's 12 stacks. Getting close to use Gloaming Cut requires me to dodge as soon as my Gloaming Cut hits.
I'm using the Stalker Set, so have a bit less stealth bar. What I did was keep the build as per your original post, but substitute in the gear from the heavy recharge gear setup another posted later on, that you made reference to in your contributors section. It is essentially unchanged from that, other than I am using Rank 6 Enhancements and Runestones (using now a Stone to boost the recharge further than I could with equipment alone).
I'm pretty close to maintaining perma-stealth, but it's a bit too razor edge for me to do it consistently with my keyboard skills. However, I have not finished placing in all the recharge enhancements and runestones, so it is quite possible I will be able to do it consistently when this is done. As it is, I find it easier to maintain stealth using attacks with shorter animation time than Gloaming.
Without the benefit of a Stone, it would probably have to be an Int build, to capture the extra recharge needed.
All my tests ive done are via
1: PVP Dummys
2: PVP MAtches
3: Mobs 52:54:57:59
My Gear Consists off,
Full Swashbucklers Set
Ion Stone of allure
Ancient Dagger/Shiv
25% Vorpal Enchant
Tier 7 gems in ancient/grand items
Executioners Build
Power: 5665 +/-
Critical: 49%
ARP: 900
Recovery: 2600
Best I have seen Lashing blade go is 12-14k but some of you have mentioned 20-30k ?
Shocking Execution I constantly get 40-49k so I'm happy with this, would like to know if anyone has had higher since then 60% nerf?
Any help much app!!
You have solid gear and stats, I would suggest buffing your Armor Penetration to consistently increase your DPS.
Also, I'm currently on the process of leveling a new TR. A Sab TR whose aim is to get full permastealth for PVE that can still do decent damage via at-wills without popping out of stealth. It's still very possible as Gloaming Cut feated with Sneaky Stabber while wearing the Battlefield Skulker set seems to counteract the loss of stealth our at-will does via the regen Sneaky Stabber gives. We'll be investing a whole lot on INT and Recovery, though.
But let's hope our dear developers do not destroy our class by pushing through with the nerf. There are a whole lot of better ways to address the concerns of the people who are not able to deal with stealth. Not to mention a lot of our feats and class features will be rendered useless once Stealth is changed.
Oh. And I had a nice conversation with Lichlament a while back in the game.