(GWF) Too low dmg? <----

kejser91

I think my dmg is abit slacky 9.5 GS- I really dont fell like that warrior I wished to be :l

What are we good for in dungeons for? compared to others?




What do you other GWF think?

samanthya

That you need to understand our damage is about aoe, not single target. We do have a few skills to chose from for single target dps but it won't match with other classes. Our aoe's are untouchable though.

vylker

You are not for PvP, in PvE you re doing well

doomsaga

CWs get taken over GWF actually in pve.

gokcay

GWF is worst in pve, but in pvp i can say GWF rules. How do i know because i am GWF.

labbb

Its the dang lack of armor penetration on the set armor .

kejser91

samanthya: yea Ill think ur right, GWF have some really heavy aoe' I will try to go full aoe-


labbb: But there aint no really good armor pen gear i guess but that would do it for really good single target dmg, we have the talants for it but not the gear, I hope they make some new good tier gear with armor pen' so we got a chance to go more single target-

Thx for respons everybody

lerdocix

vylker wrote: »

You are not for PvP, in PvE you re doing well

If you think GWFs don't belong to PvP then you clearly haven't met a competent one.
I dread to meet one as cleric.

nepht

The GWF as a whole is utterly lack luster. I advise any new players to avoid this class till improvements have been made.

musashinokami

GWF is good to face any class in 1v1 in PvP, even a rogue if he's mobile enough, I'm usually on the edge facing rogue : sometimes I die, sometimes I crush them. You just need to better know powerful skills of the different classes if you think GWF is bad in PvP.

My average ratio must be 5-0, I frequently get some 8-1 when there's not too much lag... and when this is 5v5 of course.

Most annoying classes are wiz, cleric cause they can wind you off... and GWF cause they can ran like hell to save their asses when in deep ^^

You primarily need power and critical strike chance for PvP, deviation and defense for whatever, maybe some regen.

You primarily need power and armor penetration for PvE as some decent amount of critical strike chance, deviation and defense for whatever, maybe some lifesteal.

gbf360

Despite my lack of damage as a GWF I still enjoy playing the class as an offtank. However the lack of dps makes that difficult as well because the cleric is an aggro hog. In the end im stuck with a character that doesnt have enough dps to burn down elite adds that attack the cleric nor enough threat to atleast pull them off the cleric and offtank them. Im feeling like the class doesnt have a role in dungeons other than trash cleanup.

In PVP I like to use my KD and stun to harass enemies with my large health buffer but I dont think the snare is half as powerful as it needs to be(its actually useless considering dodge mechanics let people teleport away without it having any effect). My low single target DPS also makes killing anything in PVP really difficult. I would like to see snare effects either 1) prevent the use of dodge mechanics, 2)halve the travel distance of dodge mechanics, or 3)make dodge mechanics use twice as much stamina.

lemordetu

samanthya wrote: »

That you need to understand our damage is about aoe, not single target. We do have a few skills to chose from for single target dps but it won't match with other classes. Our aoe's are untouchable though.

HAHA, funiest thing Ive read since yesterdays drama.
What aoe? Every single dungeon is an exploit-fest with massive packs(sometime bosses) being knocked off cliffs by wizards.
That makes the GWF as useless as can be, there is no need for their aoe "dps" whatsoever.

archiewind

Issue One... caring more about your Gear score then the stats you want to make your char better
Issue Two... Using the wrong skills, in PvP we can lock down any toon and 3 to 4 shot them < even rogues>
issue three... Premature Unstopable ... learn to use it right =Godmode even verus rogues smoke bomb
Issue four... Your pv'ers so I cant help you there as i never stop foot outside the pvp zone
Issue Five.... Enchants Crit>movement> Hp.... HP is nice becase your pvp set and a few feats regen HP when you do unstoppable so your taking about 3000 hp in a mater of seconds can save your ***....

Thank you and enjoy your broken economy i'm off to abnormal psychology

kejser91

lemordetu wrote: »

HAHA, funiest thing Ive read since yesterdays drama.
What aoe? Every single dungeon is an exploit-fest with massive packs(sometime bosses) being knocked off cliffs by wizards.
That makes the GWF as useless as can be, there is no need for their aoe "dps" whatsoever.

this knock off cliffs gotta change, and if this changes the GWF will be a most aoe dps in dungeons thats for sure.. but right know your right

enderlin50

I can only speak for my current experiences:

I have a Gear Score of 9330
I've ran a handful of T2 so far(haven't done T1 yet)
Each T2 I run I am #1 on Damage Dealt(Never had a TR outdamage me)
I just ran Temple of the Spider T2 and did over 10mil Damage Dealt
I didn't copy any specs from the forums, this may be why I am successful.

I feel the damage of the GWF is fine if you focus them on being "Add Control", you job is to dps down adds and dps key targets focusing your TR on the boss and/or the cleric. With that being said if you try to go toe-to-toe with a TR on a single boss there is no way you will ever win. Thankfully Cryptic has created most encounters to be Add heavy which gives the GWF a job to do.

If anything I feel the GWF really needs a "Tank" centered Paragon to match its current archtype as a Defender.

ranguren

quite low, yes, I agree, even GF can have higher damage output PvP or PvE, thats a Tank with 1 hand sword and a shield, you got to be kidding. GWF are suppose to be a damage dealer,or whatever it should be, cant tank and cant kill quick is almost useless. low def is fine, but the damage is not.

dreadlordmikey

kejser91 wrote: »

this knock off cliffs gotta change, and if this changes the GWF will be a most aoe dps in dungeons thats for sure.. but right know your right

Honest question: Why would you want this to change?

If the objective of the dungeon is to defeat the mobs, and the CW can knock them off the ledge, isn't that just as effective as hacking your way through them slowly?

I am seriously not trying to be condescending or anything lame like that. I am trying to understand where you're coming from. The group dynamics are really important to me, as I don't want to tick off my teammates in dungeons. I'd much rather work WITH them, and I've read posts and seen videos that encourage CWs to knock enemies off ledges for faster kills.

If that advice runs contrary to the spirit of better team play, I'd like to hear about it.

gbf360

dreadlordmikey wrote: »

Honest question: Why would you want this to change?

If the objective of the dungeon is to defeat the mobs, and the CW can knock them off the ledge, isn't that just as effective as hacking your way through them slowly?

I am seriously not trying to be condescending or anything lame like that. I am trying to understand where you're coming from. The group dynamics are really important to me, as I don't want to tick off my teammates in dungeons. I'd much rather work WITH them, and I've read posts and seen videos that encourage CWs to knock enemies off ledges for faster kills.

If that advice runs contrary to the spirit of better team play, I'd like to hear about it.

GWF need it to change so they have a role in the dungeon.

trickshaw

I endorse leaving GWFs alone. Play anything else. Jump ship whilst you can.

* evil grin *

Yes... my plan is working perfectly...

Muaaaahaaaahaaahahaha!

rethophis

I'm late already to do a reroll because i've gathered a consistent amount of gear and spent too much hours of dungeons, but if you havent started the gear grinding yet, reroll to another class: you'll do yourself a big favor.

itheryel

Guys how do i qoute somebody? (honest question, is it in advanced response ore so?)

i wish to qoute Dreadlordmikey.
But i wil just answer him directly without it i supose for the time being,
"Honest question: Why would you want this to change?

If the objective of the dungeon is to defeat the mobs, and the CW can knock them off the ledge, isn't that just as effective as hacking your way through them slowly?

I am seriously not trying to be condescending or anything lame like that. I am trying to understand where you're coming from. The group dynamics are really important to me, as I don't want to tick off my teammates in dungeons. I'd much rather work WITH them, and I've read posts and seen videos that encourage CWs to knock enemies off ledges for faster kills.

If that advice runs contrary to the spirit of better team play, I'd like to hear about it. "

It's very easy sir, knocking mobs of cliffs has a multiple of effect's that arent desireble in an MMO,

1. tanks/aoe control classes become unecesery in endgame dungeons, because of this 45% of ingame content is denied to this game (also known as GF/GWF, i dont personaly believe this but the general concensus is there and as a result they get kicked from dungeon runs)
2. U shorten the run of end bosses by about 70% duration, therefore a multiple of side effect's ocure that do not benefit a MMO,
a. the end tier items get flooded into the system way to soon.
b. u reduce the enjoyment of endgame runs because they are a bore because of exploit.
c. there is no more honor in having endgame equipment because every team that knocks of mobs has endgame gear in about one week of farming, therefore drasticly reducing the time spend on this game, and as a result shortening the life span of the entire game as a result.

Basicly people are exploiting the game to a faster dead, and in that period they spam forums with "boss battles to borring" while they create there own boredome because they denie themself the challenge of having to kill all the adds and stil finishing the boss, and exualy team playing instead of "cleric heal ===> cm black hole ===> boss dead"

altonimar

*Chuckles* Yes by all means go ahead and buff me Thank God for general population. GWF is soo weak.



"" Hope they don't find my build, then it might be a nerf gun.""

Yeah go ahead and buff us

chronomancer

We are kinda lacking in damage migitation or absoption. Our SHIFT power suck. I dunno if it's a bug or not when I look at our armor class it says 0. And most of the skills have a long wind up time plus while the skill animation is executing we're sitting ducks. Damage wise we're okay if there's a lot of mobs to AOE, single target we suck. Our single target just don't scale well to level. The only viable build it seems is to build determination and AP for then slam or cresendo.

enderlin50

chronomancer wrote: »

We are kinda lacking in damage migitation or absoption. Our SHIFT power suck. I dunno if it's a bug or not when I look at our armor class it says 0. And most of the skills have a long wind up time plus while the skill animation is executing we're sitting ducks. Damage wise we're okay if there's a lot of mobs to AOE, single target we suck. Our single target just don't scale well to level. The only viable build it seems is to build determination and AP for then slam or cresendo.

I do feel the Sprint(Shift Power) feels lack luster. Its a logical thing for a warrior to sprint quickly but the power could have been neater and cooler on someone who uses haste to move quicker then the eye can see past their targets.

^Im thinking a "Quick Battlemind" could have used Sprint. -You use your psionic power to make yourself faster, increasing your speed and agility in combat.

I played a Swiftblade for a time so this is where my line of thinking was going.

chronomancer

I think the idea of a GWF is finesse warrior. We're an agile fighter (in old skool D&D lingo). Unfortunately long wind up and skill animation makes us not so agile (since we're kinda rooted in place till the animation is over). However there's a temporary solution which is to use sprint as a animation cancelling tool. It's kinda annoying since sprint intended purpose is used for evading AOE and such but we're kinda forced to use it in a different way than was originally designed.

dreadlordmikey

gbf360 wrote: »

GWF need it to change so they have a role in the dungeon.

I haven't done many dungeons, so bear with me. How often is this an issue? Are there that many scenarios where ledges are an issue? On the one CW I have (approaching level 30), most of my abilities are ranged, and don't involve KB (except for shield and repel) and I prefer (as a rule) to stay back and knock foes toward the tank(s) if I have to use repel at all.

itheryel

In the endgame all CW have to do is one button = big black hole,

The cleric heals = all adds run to him cuse of massive threat (about 300% more threat then a tank can achieve)
The cleric positions himself near the edge of the cliff, the CW uses black hole to pull all over cliff and drop them in, end result = u dont need tanks anymore because there is nothing to tank.

And btw sprint of GWF is extremely usefull since it can be replenished rapidly and u can control the amount spend unlike other classes. I enjoy the GWF class a lot and i dont think he needs a buff/nerf, all i think is needed i a redesign of the dungeons so tanks are required to clear dungeons and are apreciated again.

Atm a tank can join a group, and it wil work if hes capable, however the fact remains that if u replace him with a CW/DC ure run wil go smoother and more effective because u can push all adds of cliffs...

proyoda

everybody who tell you that gwf is a top dps is liying or never have played with players of the same skill or gs.
right now with top player skill and around 11-13k gs the damage is:
tr:100%
cw:70%
gwf:60%
that it with is the tr doing the standar damage and the cw doing 30 % less than the tr and the gwf 40 % less.
u can go instigator tree and see that u are doing the same damage that the tr on trash(if your gw isnt doing his work and knocking the adds out to the ledge)but then u are going to the singleboss and u are going to see that the tr is doing the double or triple damage than u so is better go destroyer and do decent dps on bosses.
dont take me wrong,i wont ask for buffs(only a ****ing evade skill as everyclass have).we arent the top dps but i can stay on every red circle and only get 5-10k hits when the cw must evade every red circle or he is dead.
It is easy,the cwf have more survivality than tr and cw so we have less damage

steppenkat

I have 6k ArPen on my GWF and I slice things like butter. :P

gbf360

dreadlordmikey wrote: »

I haven't done many dungeons, so bear with me. How often is this an issue? Are there that many scenarios where ledges are an issue? On the one CW I have (approaching level 30), most of my abilities are ranged, and don't involve KB (except for shield and repel) and I prefer (as a rule) to stay back and knock foes toward the tank(s) if I have to use repel at all.

I dont think its as bad as people make it out to be, in terms of GWF being kicked from groups. However people making pre made groups arent asking for GWF because aoe dps isnt needed when a CW can just use singularity to groups mobs wherever they want and then knock them off a cliff.

Also the lead designer has already stated in an interview that the dev team is happy with the GWF damage but they believe the class just doesnt "feel right", whatever that means.

noroblad

GWF is awful until level 20 or so. So if the OP is low level, that is a serious issue with the class that needs to be addressed. Its tolerable if you have the level 15 weapon (I tried it both ways, and with standard items, its painful) which gets you close to 20 without the frustration.

Around 20, you should have these skills which destroy all weak mobs and leave you face to face with the one tougher guy in a group (if any). Sorry about the names, but I have now one character of each class active and get names of skills mixed up badly.

The jump encounter skill, does decent damage so use it even if already in range of target, also good to get out of red rings or behind target.
The aoe at-will. Slow but it works.
the single target at will rapid attack... think its your first default at-will attack?
The daily to jump straight up in the air and come down, killing everything weak on the entire screen.
The not quite 360 encounter aoe attack that is one of your first encounter skills.
the encounter that heals you and does hard single target damage.
tab rapid attack mode consumed meter whatever it is.

from there, a fight goes like this:
jump on them.
aoe encounter them.
hold down the at will aoe button until all the trash are dead. Repeat 1 and 2 as they cool down.
Now the only thing left is a boss or tough guy (enforcer, hexer, for example, you know the types).
Swap to single target at will attack. Continue to use your encounters as they cool down. Mash tab.
If on a boss or facing 2 or more "tougher" enemy, use your daily jump on them, for bosses, do this when a big wave of adds comes out.

The above will carry you (could even get to over level 50 with these basic attacks) until you unlock better attacks and begin to swap out powers for things you like better.

All that aside, while the aoe is very good, one on one vs high health and high armor etc bosses and tough enemy is slow going. IMHO the single target at-will skill needs to do about 2 times as much, if nothing else.