I agree completely...heck some bugs/exploits wont/can't even be found until a large amount of people start using the game, as far a feedback it goes along the same path. A lot of time an idea on paper isn't good in the actual release of the game and a lot of time what you pass and think is great is not liked by the community.
PTR's are great for weeding some of it out, but the bottom line is you need a large amount of people using it to weed most of these things out so you can begin polish.
The problem is, they tied said period to the beginning of their profits, so theyre crippled extremely in what they can do to fix it when a gamebreaking exploit arrives.
The problem is, they tied said period to the beginning of their profits, so theyre crippled extremely in what they can do to fix it when a gamebreaking exploit arrives.
It wont kill the game. They will continue fix bugs as they can, polish and implement things to keep users around.
They have a schedule they have to stick to so unless there is an emergency they have to keep going with the main development of the game. Bugs will be addressed by the bug team as they go.
The designers also have to meet and talk about class, world and gear balance. Then come to a decision and then tell the programmers what needs to be done. If there are any additional art/sound assests needed then those also need to be generated.
It isn't a clear cut and dry case of "Oh fix this now" a major bug to you might not be as big of an impact to the over all game as you think, but that doesn't mean it wont be addressed.
Just let them follow their roadmap.
Bottom line is despite what you think, the game isn't dead...it is quite the opposite. Will the population dip? Yeah just like every other MMO...will it die? Not for a long time.
Zen is capped at 500AD to 1 zen. It'll be easy enough to see if there's still excess sploited AD because when the Zen exchange goes back up if it's pegged at 500AD that'll tell you all you need to know.
It is almost adorable how little people understand about development really...
Do you think they have a say in when it is released, or do you think the publisher dictates that so they can begin to recoup some investments?
Do you think they have unlimited money to iron out everything?
Do you think they have as much time as they want to work on things before release?
Do you even think they have the resources to give you the experience you want in the time you want?
Most importantly...Do you think any dev team that has worked many long/hard nights on a game would purposely release a game with bug/exploits just for the heck of it to see it fail?
Get a grip on reality...
Somewhere there is a postit on a dev's monitor that says "Don't forget to copy the signed value check into NWO source code" and that dev is swallowing very hard right now at the backlash. hahahah.
Honestly, this **** happens and never surprises me. I still remember playing Phantasy Star Universe and realized the client had control of server data because you could login to a mission and someone ELSE could wipe out your char's inventory. I certainly liked that someone gave me 99 million currency in that game though.
Ironically I kept playing because I had fun shooting stuff.
actually, I'd point out they ****ed up the launch of CoH too, then proceeded to nerf even more **** into oblivion on Jack Emmert's orders.
CoH never really hit its stride
and yet Emmert still rides CoH's coattails like he was any help to the game.
Fixed that for you. I remember mission architect and the insanity that went with that all to well. Cryptic/Paragon both seemed to view customers as cheats or rubes.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Of course the STO has. But you need to look at the launches in order to compare them properly. And if Astral Diamonds flood the market in NW... it will be a proper comparison since it has an exchange rate for AD to Zen and Zen to AD. Remember this is player controlled. If players are scared or feel that their Zen is worth more now because of the possibility of AD being over abundant. The value of Zen goes up.
there was "the great flood" (I think it was season 5?.... I can't remember) where we trade in our MARKS into Refine Dilithium (which is AD to NWN) That was a big mess. There was a massive Dilthium on the market. It was insane. It took a while before it stabilized.
We are on Year 3 now and going strong.
Keep in mind that STO and CO is "not a good" comparison when it comes to features. STO and CO started out as SUB before it went F2P. NWN is F2P from the get go. So some QoL didn't make it like STO did.
there was "the great flood" (I think it was season 5?.... I can't remember) where we trade in our MARKS into Refine Dilithium (which is AD to NWN) That was a big mess. There was a massive Dilthium on the market. It was insane. It took a while before it stabilized.
We are on Year 3 now and going strong.
Keep in mind that STO and CO is "not a good" comparison when it comes to features. STO and CO started out as SUB before it went F2P. NWN is F2P from the get go. So some QoL didn't make it like STO did.
STO also has box sales to help out, NWO you just download it free.
Actually, Cryptic has proven to me that they are the go-to Dev team when it comes down to getting an MMO out the door. The title may ship before it is ready, but the software will install and allow people to log into the cash shop.
I have mixed opinions about Champions, STO, and Neverwinter. I see such potential for each, but I don't pay game vendors for potential, I pay for entertainment.
The greatest source of entertainment for me was watching all the STO lifetime subscribers running around starbases with their fancy "Career" titles, indicating they had bought lifetime subscriptions ... only to watch the game go FTP, and then see the same "Career" players talk about all the great value they received for their lifetime subscription to a free game.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Actually, Cryptic has proven to me that they are the go-to Dev team when it comes down to getting an MMO out the door. The title may ship before it is ready, but the software will install and allow people to log into the cash shop.
I have mixed opinions about Champions, STO, and Neverwinter. I see such potential for each, but I don't pay game vendors for potential, I pay for entertainment.
The greatest source of entertainment for me was watching all the STO lifetime subscribers running around starbases with their fancy "Career" titles, indicating they had bought lifetime subscriptions ... only to watch the game go FTP, and then see the same "Career" players talk about all the great value they received for their lifetime subscription to a free game.
Actually, Cryptic has proven to me that they are the go-to Dev team when it comes down to getting an MMO out the door. The title may ship before it is ready, but the software will install and allow people to log into the cash shop.
I have mixed opinions about Champions, STO, and Neverwinter. I see such potential for each, but I don't pay game vendors for potential, I pay for entertainment.
The greatest source of entertainment for me was watching all the STO lifetime subscribers running around starbases with their fancy "Career" titles, indicating they had bought lifetime subscriptions ... only to watch the game go FTP, and then see the same "Career" players talk about all the great value they received for their lifetime subscription to a free game.
They still receive other benefits that the normal F2P player doesn't.
Also if they felt like they got a value, who cares? The customer is happy.
Yeah the praying ,sparkle ponehs and little quest lines yes very Forsaken Worldish. But thats not the issue. Its the engine, its a very buggy engine, they have had the time to fix it. PWE themselves don't really have a western dev unit, thats why they bought Cryptic so they could have some western made games. I would agree the buck stops with Perfect World they are the real guys in charge, but on the way there we should give Cryptic a quick kick to the bawls.
JUST a little one... They at one point had a great idea for a game and a great IP. not that it's terribad now, I'm a forgiving sort unlike some of the folks on this forum... but yeah.. it does make me wonder what could have been
When PWE took over CO it got WAY better. I do miss the monthly calender with updates but overall it was a better transition. NW has a lot of potential as well once everything is ironed out. Its a big deal and super ambitious to tackle Forgotten Realms on a larger scale. Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 managed smaller scale servers but this is a whole new ballgame with a full fledge MMO.
starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Don't know about CO, but STO was much better after PWE took over. The best updates were done after PWE took over and people were suffering from the Content Drought for months before PWE appeared on the scene. Although, it is due to Atari basically giving up on STO and trying to sell it than any problem with the devs. After all, why spend money on a game that you are just going to sell.
I would really like to know the percentage of all MMOs that had a successful launch. My guess is that it is less than 50%.
I haven't read all the pages here, so excuse me if I'm repeating something. But I've been in STO since beta. The bug in the AH can't really be compared to STO because the currencies are different. The STO exchange trades in 'energy credits' which would be the equivalent of gold/silver/copper in NW. There is no direct conversion between energy credits in STO to Zen or vice versa. And that is the big difference here. The main currency in STO is Dilithium which is the Astral Diamond equivalent in STO. There is a dilthium to Zen exchange, but items in the STO exchange (AH) are priced in energy credits, not dilithium. So obviously, an exploit in the NW AH is much more serious than the same in STO. Plus, that exploit in STO was BEFORE it went F2P, and BEFORE Cryptic was bought by PWE.
_____________________
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You would only realize the difference through the experience of playing MMOs at launch. Other wise, yes you would believe it was a beta.
You are really trying to hard to troll me. You are letting me see how bad I have gotten to you....
Trust me, I know the difference between beta and launch. This game even if you want to call it a launch is still in its infant stage. So go ahead and try and doom and gloom it all you want, the fact is the game will still be around for a long time.
I just find it funny that someone like you who just wants to complain about the game and doom it, is still around instead of just quitting. Which means most likely you just want attention and are still playing it.
I just find the whole interaction with you funny because I basically predicted your point of view and yet I gave you more credit than what you had deserved because I was doing it sarcastically. Of course I am going to throw your own words back in your face for making feeble attempts at talking down at me. Now yes this game is still a beta but the company (unofficially) launched the game. This is one of the big issues in the gaming industry today. There are a lot of companies releasing incomplete games.
I am not dooming the game, I am dooming the actions of the people running the game. If they didn't repair the damage enough, the game will fall apart. I personally am waiting on the Zen AD exchange to come back up to see if the market does crash or not. That will determine if I stick around any longer.
I just find the whole interaction with you funny because I basically predicted your point of view and yet I gave you more credit than what you had deserved because I was doing it sarcastically. Of course I am going to throw your own words back in your face for making feeble attempts at talking down at me. Now yes this game is still a beta but the company (unofficially) launched the game. This is one of the big issues in the gaming industry today. There are a lot of companies releasing incomplete games.
I am not dooming the game, I am dooming the actions of the people running the game. If they didn't repair the damage enough, the game will fall apart. I personally am waiting on the Zen AD exchange to come back up to see if the market does crash or not. That will determine if I stick around any longer.
And I find the entire interaction with you hilarious. It is obvious you don't have a strong grasp on how things actually work in the gaming industry.
It is fine if you want to give feedback, but you sit and doom the game and the people who have worked hard on it without knowing their plan or if/how they will be addressing it.
People like you are a cancer to games. Let's face it, your goal isn't to provide meaningful feedback to the developers it is to cause a uproar on the forums and get some attention because things aren't exactly how you want so you pitch a fit.
If you had even the smallest idea on how things actually worked then you would feel pretty stupid about your actions.
"Why can't you repeat history with City of Heroes already"
I was wondering this myself. Although I must say that it really wasn't that incredible at launch; it took time before a few key devs poured their heart and soul into it to make it excellent.
And I find the entire interaction with you hilarious. It is obvious you don't have a strong grasp on how things actually work in the gaming industry.
It is fine if you want to give feedback, but you sit and doom the game and the people who have worked hard on it without knowing their plan or if/how they will be addressing it.
People like you are a cancer to games. Let's face it, your goal isn't to provide meaningful feedback to the developers it is to cause a uproar on the forums and get some attention because things aren't exactly how you want so you pitch a fit.
If you had even the smallest idea on how things actually worked then you would feel pretty stupid about your actions.
The devs are perfectly capable of defending themselves if they feel the need to. All you are doing is throwing gasoline on a fire here. The devs don't need you waving your forum sword on their behalf. You are just as cancerous as the guy you are fighting with. If you let it be, it would be on page three by now.
The devs are perfectly capable of defending themselves if they feel the need to. All you are doing is throwing gasoline on a fire here. The devs don't need you waving your forum sword on their behalf. You are just as cancerous as the guy you are fighting with. If you let it be, it would be on page three by now.
"Why can't you repeat history with City of Heroes already"
I was wondering this myself. Although I must say that it really wasn't that incredible at launch; it took time before a few key devs poured their heart and soul into it to make it excellent.
the why is simple.
Most of the devs that made City of heroes special STAYED WITH CITY OF HEROES WHEN CRYPTIC SOLD IT OFF TO NCSOFT
the Cryptic that wrote CO/STO/NWO doesnt include the vast majority of the CoH devteam and never has.
Most of the devs that made City of heroes special STAYED WITH CITY OF HEROES WHEN CRYPTIC SOLD IT OFF TO NCSOFT
That claim is oft-repeated and technically correct, but misleading. Most of the core programmers went with Jack to California. It was only the content people (artists, quest designers) who mostly stayed.
That claim is oft-repeated and technically correct, but misleading. Most of the core programmers went with Jack to California. It was only the content people (artists, quest designers) who mostly stayed.
well I guess that explains the absolutely **** writing, art, and quest design in every game since CoH, eh?
Comments
The problem is, they tied said period to the beginning of their profits, so theyre crippled extremely in what they can do to fix it when a gamebreaking exploit arrives.
It wont kill the game. They will continue fix bugs as they can, polish and implement things to keep users around.
They have a schedule they have to stick to so unless there is an emergency they have to keep going with the main development of the game. Bugs will be addressed by the bug team as they go.
The designers also have to meet and talk about class, world and gear balance. Then come to a decision and then tell the programmers what needs to be done. If there are any additional art/sound assests needed then those also need to be generated.
It isn't a clear cut and dry case of "Oh fix this now" a major bug to you might not be as big of an impact to the over all game as you think, but that doesn't mean it wont be addressed.
Just let them follow their roadmap.
Bottom line is despite what you think, the game isn't dead...it is quite the opposite. Will the population dip? Yeah just like every other MMO...will it die? Not for a long time.
Somewhere there is a postit on a dev's monitor that says "Don't forget to copy the signed value check into NWO source code" and that dev is swallowing very hard right now at the backlash. hahahah.
Honestly, this **** happens and never surprises me. I still remember playing Phantasy Star Universe and realized the client had control of server data because you could login to a mission and someone ELSE could wipe out your char's inventory. I certainly liked that someone gave me 99 million currency in that game though.
Ironically I kept playing because I had fun shooting stuff.
Fixed that for you. I remember mission architect and the insanity that went with that all to well. Cryptic/Paragon both seemed to view customers as cheats or rubes.
there was "the great flood" (I think it was season 5?.... I can't remember) where we trade in our MARKS into Refine Dilithium (which is AD to NWN) That was a big mess. There was a massive Dilthium on the market. It was insane. It took a while before it stabilized.
We are on Year 3 now and going strong.
Keep in mind that STO and CO is "not a good" comparison when it comes to features. STO and CO started out as SUB before it went F2P. NWN is F2P from the get go. So some QoL didn't make it like STO did.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
STO also has box sales to help out, NWO you just download it free.
I have mixed opinions about Champions, STO, and Neverwinter. I see such potential for each, but I don't pay game vendors for potential, I pay for entertainment.
The greatest source of entertainment for me was watching all the STO lifetime subscribers running around starbases with their fancy "Career" titles, indicating they had bought lifetime subscriptions ... only to watch the game go FTP, and then see the same "Career" players talk about all the great value they received for their lifetime subscription to a free game.
the great value is free 500Zen a month for life.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
They still receive other benefits that the normal F2P player doesn't.
Also if they felt like they got a value, who cares? The customer is happy.
JUST a little one... They at one point had a great idea for a game and a great IP. not that it's terribad now, I'm a forgiving sort unlike some of the folks on this forum... but yeah.. it does make me wonder what could have been
It may cap at 500, but still be worth 1000 per.
It just means very little people will probably be selling zen even at cap because it's just not worth much at 500.
People have forgotten this, they kick and scream because they feel if they are playing the game then it is launched...
lol what? No it didn't.
I would really like to know the percentage of all MMOs that had a successful launch. My guess is that it is less than 50%.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Your ignorance is showing...
You would only realize the difference through the experience of playing MMOs at launch. Other wise, yes you would believe it was a beta.
You are really trying to hard to troll me. You are letting me see how bad I have gotten to you....
Trust me, I know the difference between beta and launch. This game even if you want to call it a launch is still in its infant stage. So go ahead and try and doom and gloom it all you want, the fact is the game will still be around for a long time.
I just find it funny that someone like you who just wants to complain about the game and doom it, is still around instead of just quitting. Which means most likely you just want attention and are still playing it.
I am not dooming the game, I am dooming the actions of the people running the game. If they didn't repair the damage enough, the game will fall apart. I personally am waiting on the Zen AD exchange to come back up to see if the market does crash or not. That will determine if I stick around any longer.
And I find the entire interaction with you hilarious. It is obvious you don't have a strong grasp on how things actually work in the gaming industry.
It is fine if you want to give feedback, but you sit and doom the game and the people who have worked hard on it without knowing their plan or if/how they will be addressing it.
People like you are a cancer to games. Let's face it, your goal isn't to provide meaningful feedback to the developers it is to cause a uproar on the forums and get some attention because things aren't exactly how you want so you pitch a fit.
If you had even the smallest idea on how things actually worked then you would feel pretty stupid about your actions.
I was wondering this myself. Although I must say that it really wasn't that incredible at launch; it took time before a few key devs poured their heart and soul into it to make it excellent.
And you are doing no good fighting him about it.
The devs are perfectly capable of defending themselves if they feel the need to. All you are doing is throwing gasoline on a fire here. The devs don't need you waving your forum sword on their behalf. You are just as cancerous as the guy you are fighting with. If you let it be, it would be on page three by now.
I can see your point on the whole page 3 thing.
the why is simple.
Most of the devs that made City of heroes special STAYED WITH CITY OF HEROES WHEN CRYPTIC SOLD IT OFF TO NCSOFT
the Cryptic that wrote CO/STO/NWO doesnt include the vast majority of the CoH devteam and never has.
That claim is oft-repeated and technically correct, but misleading. Most of the core programmers went with Jack to California. It was only the content people (artists, quest designers) who mostly stayed.
well I guess that explains the absolutely **** writing, art, and quest design in every game since CoH, eh?
Despite the fact that Jack hired most of those guys from Paragon back when NCsoft knifed them in the back.
You just keep digging yourself deeper I think.