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If theres no wipe, I'm done.

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    arrowmaticarrowmatic Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    cutegay wrote: »
    The people who don't want a wipe are people like you who hate this game

    Tripe. If I hated the game I wouldn't waste my time playing it. The reason I wouldn't want a wipe is simply because I didn't do anything wrong. Why should my progress be wiped because of the actions of a few jackasses who have nothing to do with me?

    You people who are freaking out and calling for a nuclear strike on the game should just take a breath. All they have to do is fix the bugs, ban (actually ban) the exploiters, and do their best to remove the ill-gotten assets from the game. No they won't get it all; some people will have been more clever about laundering it than others. But with time things will sort themselves out.

    There's no reason to turn the launch keys, folks. Don't use a warhead if a scalpel and a hammer will fix the problem.
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    goranthargoranthar Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    draekus wrote: »
    Explain this please. I see people claiming this but they don't explain it.

    Contact Paypal and say you want your moenay back. It's actually quite simple there, but remember this:
    Without contacting the company customer support this is a very slippery slope.

    Further: You never bought the game. You bought ingame rights, goods and services.
    If those (for example the mount and title) work within reason and are not faulty in themselves, then you might be charging back on fraudulent grounds.
    Now, most likely PW will only ban your account and never deal with the hassle of actually takling you to court, but if you spent the 200 or more, then I'd be not so sure.
    So no matter how angry you are now, you really want to at least write to customer support once to get a statement from PW, because anything else is actually quite risky. HAving your credit card/Paypal account frozen because of misuse might backfire for you much harder than the current, let's be honest, inconvenience these problems.
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    iamdoctordeathiamdoctordeath Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Move over EA- we have a new worst company in America.

    Downright hilarious when SWTOR's launch looks like the second coming in comparison to this disaster.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    rebeldaddyrebeldaddy Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    arrowmatic wrote: »
    Tripe. If I hated the game I wouldn't waste my time playing it. The reason I wouldn't want a wipe is simply because I didn't do anything wrong. Why should my progress be wiped because of the actions of a few jackasses who have nothing to do with me?

    You people who are freaking out and calling for a nuclear strike on the game should just take a breath. All they have to do is fix the bugs, ban (actually ban) the exploiters, and do their best to remove the ill-gotten assets from the game. No they won't get it all; some people will have been more clever about laundering it than others. But with time things will sort themselves out.

    There's no reason to turn the launch keys, folks. Don't use a warhead if a scalpel and a hammer will fix the problem.

    The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. Heard that somewhere cant seem to remember where. hhmm:D
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    davan9kdavan9k Member Posts: 66
    edited May 2013
    draekus wrote: »
    Explain this please. I see people claiming this but they don't explain it.

    sorry for late response. so you got 2 options:
    1. you ask the customer service for refund. it might be a waste of time

    or 2. in my case its via pay pal i just have to chose charge back on my account. its a matter of clicks and i just have to type in a TAN NR.

    dont know how it works for credit cards. maybe similar.
    http://mmogfails.blogspot.com/ - never(exploitfree)winter
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    rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    cutegay wrote: »
    The people who don't want a wipe are people like you who hate this game and don't wanna re level.

    Yes. I hated the game so much I decided to give them a bunch of money. Wait.. What?

    No wipes. It's already been decided. Not sure why it's continued to be debated.
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    goranthargoranthar Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mistatos wrote: »
    I wonder how long this will set back my ticket that I made on the 15th. Still no Guardian Founder Pack received, but it is purchased and verified.

    Well, here comes another 4 days of waiting. :(

    Now this is an example of reasons for a charge back.

    - Actually bought service is not delivered.
    - Customer support has been contacted, but no answer.
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    callmedeuxcallmedeux Member Posts: 182 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    QQ dude QQ

    I farmed legitly, EVERYTHING legit. I found out about the game 24hrs before it went OB so I didnt know about any of the exploits anyway else who knew about the game did.

    I wear a full tier 2 set, basically only thing I need are ancient daggers, and rank 8 enchants.

    People want FULL WIPES so they can have a chance to be the "best" again. A level playing field per say.

    People cry for them all the time in MMOs, when in reality when a new server is released. These same kids never find their way to the top, do you k now why?

    Because if you were that good at the game you wouldnt need a wipe, you could still rise tot he top as is. But you sir, we never destined to be a top tier player.

    I suggest you play the game at your own pace, and let the GGs handle well, the GG part of this ordeal.
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    arrowmaticarrowmatic Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rebeldaddy wrote: »
    The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. Heard that somewhere cant seem to remember where. hhmm:D

    You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the many.
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    roguewatchmenroguewatchmen Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The true problem with NOT wiping the system is there is no other way to restore the economy of the game. People exploiting their way to 60 has no impact on me in the grand scheme of things. They get to 60 first, find the end game bugs (and exploits) and it's not a problem until the economy is effected. Some people think that banning these people will have an effect, but there is a deeper problem in not resetting the servers as well.

    For anyone who doesn't follow business or something related once you generate wealth that wasn't intended to be made you bloat the economy. Removing these players and what is on each toon is all well and good, but what about all the extra gear, AD, gold that's floating around still in the market. The economy cannot correct because their system was never designed to absorb this much currency into the game at such an early stage. In other words all that ill gotten gains have effectively been laundered and honest players now possess those items. Once the flow of large amounts of the three previous items are shut off you run into an issue where new player are hard pressed to be able to partake in the AD/AH economy that's been broken by the exploiters. If they cannot take part in the current system new players will be less likely to stick around.

    Now personally I don't buy much off the AH with the exception of basic crafting materials because while leveling it's kind of pointless to buy high priced gear you know you will be replacing with the next quest or drop. In other words I'm not really all that sure what the market should even look like at this point other than the default figures the AH throws at me when I sell a blue drop or two from time to time. Looking at those I'm pretty sure there is more AD that expected, especially given the daily rewards. It would take quite some time to buy you're next item at the current rates with playing by the rules.

    So conclusion, broken economy will remain broken and continue to snowball as the game progresses unless there is a wipe. Well that is unless you wish for them to spend several days tracking each transaction of Gear, AD, Gold from player to player and remove that wealth generated by the exploiters regardless of if it was you or not. I mean just imagine spending all your AD on that new weapon to log in with an empty slot because someone exploited for it when you did nothing wrong because that is the only way to correct the problem.

    Edit: I also see no reason to remove existing foundry maps unless they are part of the problem. I've not created one but I'm willing to bet the author spend a fair amount of time building one.
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    imperviumimpervium Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    arrowmatic wrote: »
    Tripe. If I hated the game I wouldn't waste my time playing it. The reason I wouldn't want a wipe is simply because I didn't do anything wrong. Why should my progress be wiped because of the actions of a few jackasses who have nothing to do with me?

    You people who are freaking out and calling for a nuclear strike on the game should just take a breath. All they have to do is fix the bugs, ban (actually ban) the exploiters, and do their best to remove the ill-gotten assets from the game. No they won't get it all; some people will have been more clever about laundering it than others. But with time things will sort themselves out.

    There's no reason to turn the launch keys, folks. Don't use a warhead if a scalpel and a hammer will fix the problem.

    Well spoken, Arrowmatic. :)

    And to all the people crying that they will leave if there is no wipe: See you when you come back for Module One. :p
    _

    [SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]

    "YES, PLEASE"
    Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
    @Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
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    erethizon1erethizon1 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    worzabonk wrote: »
    Sorry guys, I mean, it's been a fun ride, it really has. You have a gem of a game here, and myself and my wife both really enjoy playing.

    But the exploits over the past few weeks...lets face it, the AD AH exploit is just the tip of the iceberg. We've had so many exploits in the last month, those of us who don't cheat, who refuse to cheat, who avoid cheaters, cheating and exploits like the spellplague, we're at a disadvantage.

    We leveled via questing. We didn't farm ogres in cages to fly to 60 in a few hours.

    We didn't abuse the AH to make enormous amounts of AD, which we then palmed off to mule accounts and/or sold it for real world profit.

    We BOUGHT zen, and supported your company.

    We didn't farm t1-2 dungeons via exploits for insane gold and items.

    We played the game legitimately. And we lost. The economy is totally broken, overvalued, and those of us lowly non cheaters are, for the most part, priced out of the market totally.

    And you've just confirmed via twitter you will not be wiping, not resetting the very obviously broken servers, not putting us all on a level playing field. And 72 hour bans for exploiters? Yeah, I'll pass. All that says is 'please, exploit all you like, you'll make a few thousand bucks in profit, destabilize the market, ruin it for everyone else, but hey that's cool, see you in a few days'.

    So Cryptic, PWI, it's been fun, it really has. I've enjoyed your games, NW, and STO. I enjoyed my Neverember guard, and my numerous starships from your Zen store. But this is it for me. I'm not going to sit back, and watch the exploiters, and those who benefitted from those exploits power ahead and leave me, us, in the dust.

    This is not rage. Just...sadness. It's been a fun ride.

    Stay Hoopy.

    I would understand your feelings about being left in the dust a little more if the game had not been designed that way from the start. Everyone that felt like spending $200 got 2 million astral diamonds resulting in an overpriced market and leaving everyone else in the dust financially from day one. This is a game with haves and have nots (as most F2P games are). Only a few people get to be haves and everyone else needs to be okay being a have not. Those that cannot accept being a have not (usually because they are overly competitive especially on the PvE side of the game) tend not to be happy in these games unless they spend $1000+ a year.
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    lyim02lyim02 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Personally, if we get a wipe, everyone loses. If we just ban the exploiters accounts and any ill gotten goods, everyone wins. The market values will die down in a few days on the AH, and everything will resume some normalcy. So, in the end, just take a deep breath, check back tomorrow and start playing like this never happened.
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    erethizon1erethizon1 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yukishiro3 wrote: »
    If they're smart they'll do a 6-10 hour rollback. That would get most of the exploited AD without punishing people too badly. They can give everyone 500 zen to make up for it and I doubt many people would be too angry.

    Then go and ban all the exploiters accounts and remove any AD that was exploited from before the rollback and it'll probably be just enough to save the economy.

    Probably the best solution I have heard. They need a minor rollback coupled with free zen. Perhaps 100 free zen for every hour they roll back. That way the more they take away the more free zen we get which would make most people happy.
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    grayvenraynegrayvenrayne Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I would amend my personal view to be 'if there is neither a wipe nor a rollback of AD/zen, I'm done.' The economy has been irreparably harmed, and banning a few accounts isn't going to fix it. A wipe is probably overkill. They don't need to cancel the levels gained by folks, since that doesn't imbalance the economy, but inventing massive amounts of AD out of thin air definitely does. If they decide to do nothing, then I'll make my best guess at how many months need to pass until the economy settles, and if nothing better is released by then, I'll revisit the game.
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    grtaylorgrtaylor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 35
    edited May 2013
    wuhsin wrote: »
    Leave. There's a lot of people like you threatening to leave if there isn't a wipe, but the Foundry authors are collectively against it, and one of them is more important to the longevity of this game than a hundred whiny players like you in the long run.

    What does the foundry have to do with any of this? As far as I am aware it is on a separate data stream than the game. That would mean you can very easily do a wipe of the shards and not have any issue with foundry things. Not that I am for or against a wipe.
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    qualexiousqualexious Member Posts: 30
    edited May 2013
    OP, I’m sorry to see so many pricks treating you like you’re nothing. No one cares that you would leave, given, but everyone should care WHY you would. This is a cash market MMO era we are living in. Fifteen years ago developers made their online games not purely for profit, but to create a world they themselves would want to play in. Those days are gone, and the people in charge here will only make dollar decisions. With that being said, the more accounts they ban, the less people paying for Zen. The only way they will do something is if they lose more money by doing nothing at all, for example you quitting. Obviously though, from the looks of the people saying things like “Can I has your stuffs?” I highly doubt they will take the community for nothing more than sheople with credit cards.
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    glanniganglannigan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 463 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I wish all you pro wipe people would knock it off.

    1) You are totally blowing everything out of proportion.

    2) It isn't going to fix anything. There will always be exploits - There will be exploits again, In this and every game like it, It's not a big deal. The only difference here is everyone freaks out!

    3) You are making the game look awful! With all this demanding and crying. You are creating a frenzy over nothing!!!

    4) Even if all 5k active Forum Users were in 100% of Agreement for a Wipe, that is only about 5-10% of the player base! (If that!). The majority of folks don't care about any of this nonsense and just wanna enjoy a video game.

    5) This is a freaking Video game. Life aint fair! Shiat Happens! Get over it! So what someone got a stupid imaginary cat at a good price? WHO CARES! Someone got a good deal on the armor for their class? So WHAT!!! Be happy for them!!!!

    6) Not one innocent person should be directly impacted by anything that has occurred and that is exactly what a wipe would do. It would EFFECT EVERYONE! Half the people would have no idea what is happening or why! They would just go to log in, see tehy lost everything and never play this game or any PWE/Cryptic Game again.

    You people are being insane! It's a freaking Video Game! Everyone needs to just relax and take it for what it's worth. A bit of digital fun. Nothing more, nothing less.
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    grudge13grudge13 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Why are people still running around forum asking for wipe when is already said there is no way it's gonna happen? I mean officially said with all bells and whistles. I'm not trying to push anyone buttons I'm genuinely curious.
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    inexistinexist Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wuhsin wrote: »
    Leave. There's a lot of people like you threatening to leave if there isn't a wipe, but the Foundry authors are collectively against it, and one of them is more important to the longevity of this game than a hundred whiny players like you in the long run.

    Such an arrogant response. All you care about is the Foundry? You do know they can save all the Foundry player missions BEFORE the wipe right? Save the content, wipe the servers, perma ban all the low life exploiters = new game without the scum...
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    schidooshschidoosh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    A full wipe is a terrible idea. I don't want to lose dozens of hours of progress simply because some other people exploited. I fail to see how this AD/Zen exploit has any effect on most players. So the AD value has tanked, who cares? That just means everything will be cheap for a while, which is beneficial to a lot of the non-power players.

    Or is it all the founders who are butt-hurt because so many f2p people now have 10-times the AD they do without having to pay $200 for it?

    Me and about 6 of my friends who play this game are hanging on by a thread. If they wipe our characters we're gone and likely never coming back. There is way too much collateral damage if they wipe the servers.
    [Click on the quest for additional information]
    (Q) Stronghold by the Sea
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    rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    qualexious wrote: »
    This is a cash market MMO era we are living in. Fifteen years ago developers made their online games not purely for profit, but to create a world they themselves would want to play in. Those days are gone, and the people in charge here will only make dollar decisions. With that being said, the more accounts they ban, the less people paying for Zen.

    So what you're suggesting is... To not ban exploiters because they MIGHT spend money on the game? Sorry, any respectable developer would have banned exploiters 15 years ago when it was the gaming utopia you describe.
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    aeschillesaeschilles Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm with the OP completely.

    If there's no wipe I'm done.
    * Nothing is constant but change *
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    imperviumimpervium Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aeschilles wrote: »
    I'm with the OP completely.

    If there's no wipe I'm done.

    See you when Module One comes out. :p
    _

    [SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]

    "YES, PLEASE"
    Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
    @Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
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    orbitalz2korbitalz2k Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    A full wipe would just be telling the world that this game has been a failed launch, they told players that there was not going to be a wipe and thus why so many have put so much time into their characters. Not that the rampant exploits aren't telling the world it is buggy as heck still and really wasn't ready for open beta with the Zen store to be operational.
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    yumzukyumzuk Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wish i had exploited game too.i could have waited 3 days for a couple of billion ad.
    btw ah exploit is happening since start. i noticed something wrong on ah tried to ask people on chat but no one understand what i am saying
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    krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So conclusion, broken economy will remain broken and continue to snowball as the game progresses unless there is a wipe. Well that is unless you wish for them to spend several days tracking each transaction of Gear, AD, Gold from player to player and remove that wealth generated by the exploiters regardless of if it was you or not. I mean just imagine spending all your AD on that new weapon to log in with an empty slot because someone exploited for it when you did nothing wrong because that is the only way to correct the problem.

    Edit: I also see no reason to remove existing foundry maps unless they are part of the problem. I've not created one but I'm willing to bet the author spend a fair amount of time building one.

    First of all, no hard feelings, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

    A wipe will not solve anything and the reason why is because the system that Cryptic has gone with will never be balanced. Anyone who has taken a basic course in economics can clearly point out why this is the case. Let me point out a few areas of why it can never be stable. If you want a good stable economy you can not introduce money into the supply from nothing. No games have ever figured this part out. They place money on mobs and essentially this creates in game money out of nothing. So the money supply in game is constantly growing. Sure some developers try to create money sinks where the inflow of money is deleted by forcing players to purchase game supplies, such as repair costs, crafting materials, ect. But the problem is Cryptic has a zen aspect where players can essentially convert real cash into game cash by purchasing packs that contain millions of AD. When this happens it inflates the prices on the AH because players know that there are millions of AD floating around from players who buy these packs. Those players who chose not to pay for packs are left trying to trade their acquired items for AD or convert their existing AD back into Zen so they can make purchases. Long story turned even longer, is that this game economy is an open system where the money supply is growing faster than it is being deleted. This will ultimately cause prices to rise on the AH to the point where players not spending any real money will have a difficult time buying anything on the AH. Cryptic is fine with this because it essentially gives players an incentive to spend real money to keep up with the game economy or spend hours farming items instead.

    So in other words a wipe would not solve this problem. Those wishing for a wipe have other concerns. They want to punish those who have been playing legitimately and have not abused any system so that they can now have the same chances. If you arrive late to the party you can't complain that you want the party to restart because you missed out on the fun. Deal with arriving late, quit wishing to punish the rest of us because you didn't pay attention.
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    robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    grudge13 wrote: »
    Why are people still running around forum asking for wipe when is already said there is no way it's gonna happen? I mean officially said with all bells and whistles. I'm not trying to push anyone buttons I'm genuinely curious.

    It's called denial. They can't believe that they're not going to get their way, so they keep harping, and hoping that Cryptic/PW will pull a Blizzard and cave.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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    alberelleonhartalberelleonhart Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    schidoosh wrote: »
    A full wipe is a terrible idea. I don't want to lose dozens of hours of progress simply because some other people exploited. I fail to see how this AD/Zen exploit has any effect on most players. So the AD value has tanked, who cares? That just means everything will be cheap for a while, which is beneficial to a lot of the non-power players.

    Or is it all the founders who are butt-hurt because so many f2p people now have 10-times the AD they do without having to pay $200 for it?

    Me and about 6 of my friends who play this game are hanging on by a thread. If they wipe our characters we're gone and likely never coming back. There is way too much collateral damage if they wipe the servers.

    Um... if the AD value has tanked that means things get more expensive, not cheaper. That's the problem. Anyone that didn't dupe or obtain duped AD will no longer be able to afford anything on the AH.

    There are too many naive posters such as you thinking it doesn't affect you. This affects quite literally EVERYONE playing the game right now, and will particularly impact any new players as they will be entering a hyper-inflated economy whilst they're still limited to their 24k AD a day...
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    bleh0910bleh0910 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wipe or new server or I quit too and I want my $60 back.
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