I am working on my 4th toon to 60. I don't even bother with dungeon delving anymore. You can be a totally awesome group right up to the boss fight and then get WTFBBQPWNED in seconds. It's just not fun and not worth it.
If you're getting enough divinity and AP to keep casting Astral Shield whenever it's cooled, and Hallowed Ground just before it drops most of the time, no. However, it's such a useful skill that you'd have to have a pretty amazing reason not to use it in PvE, as it takes the pressure right off a busy DC in a T2.
So, what's your revelatory rotation, and how much recovery do you stack for it?
I followed Mewbrey's build and it works wonders - I use Bastion of Health and Healing word with Divine Fortune and Healer's Lore, and I'm never starved for divinity. I can't recall off the top of my head what my recovery is but it's somewhere around the 3k mark. Her guide to her build provides a more detailed explanation. I never thought I could possibly run without sunburst but for my playstyle, this is much more intuitive and I am able to heal at a distance if I need to, which is an added bonus.
As to the OP's troubles - I agree that most pugs seem to be just fine until that last boss, where they can no longer be carried by the decent players in the group. I try to save my harder dungeon runs for guild runs only because of this. It's not the best system - and my WORD things would be easier if the queuing system would replace the people who ditch after a couple of boss wipes!
That being said I don't really want to see the bosses get easier... I experience that with WoW and it was mighty dull after they nerfed everything.
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yaubotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Just want to say that sunburst is not required. Not a game breaker at all.
I'm not saying it is but with people moving around sun bust provides aoe healing and a push back if mobs are on you. and with a lot of people QQing about push back in the game. When a cleric uses divinity sun burst its like a warning that says the cleric is getting attacked... Bastion on health is ok but the build it takes too long and even for the instant cast you have people weaving in and out of the target zone so it's somewhat useless. Astral shield at least shows a circle in which other players can see and step into for healing.
I'm not scolding people who have another approach to gaming than me, I'm scolding the people who made this game, took a name that ought to stand for good RPG-ing, something for my type of gamer and turned it into something that only that other kind of gamer can enjoy.
There are many IPs out there that could easily be turned into Hack&Slay-MMOs for people who enjoy grinding and fighting all the time, but this is likely to stay the only MMO that has the Dungeons & Dragons/Forgotten Realms/Neverwinter name attached to it.
This is the one licensed IP game that could and should have given people like me what we wish for and instead people who have so much more to chose from were pandered to some more. Like I said, I'm not blaming those gamers, I'm blaming the people who took the D&D license and turned it into a game that only resembles D&D at the surface, but not in its gameplay or substance.
Is it unreasonable to be angry about that by me? Or am I being greedy for wanting one MMO for people like me?
I don't think so.
When I make a reservation at a restaurant that is called "Bob's Steakhouse" because I want some good steak and then I arrive there and it turns out "Bob's Steakhouse" is really a sushi bar and doesn't serve steak, then I think I have a right to be annoyed. That doesn't mean that I am angry at people who like sushi.
If you were in such a situation, would you appreciate other patrons telling you "what they always find funny" about people being annoyed by finding a sushi bar instead of a steak house?
To summarize my position: The IP of Dungeons&Dragons/Forgotten Realms/Neverwinter stands for archetypal, classical fantasy role playing and adventure. A MMO that uses this IP ought to be one that is heavy on the RPG and adventure elements. That is not a expectation I would have of a "Golden Axe" or a "Warcraft" or even a "LOTR" IP game, but it is a reasonable expectation to have of a game based on D&D.
It is also not unreasonable to be disappointed and angry because this game might have been the one chance to get the kind of game I was hoping for. The chance of there ever being another Neverwinter MMORPG are basically zero now that this game exists. And for what? So people who like this kind of game, who have dozens of other games like this to chose from can have some more of what they already got in abundance.
To go back to that restaurant analogy: Now imagine "Bob's Steakhouse" would be the only steakhouse in the world....
That would suck for people who like steak, wouldn't it?
Yes, Cryptic and this game objectively, not just subjectively took something away from me and just because other people don't feel that way, doesn't mean my whining is unfounded.
I have some friends who apparently used to play neverwinter nights religiously who share those same complaints. They had some preconceived notion that because this game had the name neverwinter that it would be just like that old game they used to play and were really excited about it, even though the developers were pretty explicit in stating that this game has nothing to do with that game. Clearly this game was not meant to be what they, or apparently you, though it should be. I'm sure that's disappointing, but the fault is in your expectations of the game and not in the game. They aren't going to totally redesign the game from a combat focused one into a full blown RPG just because some people think they have misused a license they paid good money for.
I'm not saying it is but with people moving around sun bust provides aoe healing and a push back if mobs are on you. and with a lot of people QQing about push back in the game. When a cleric uses divinity sun burst its like a warning that says the cleric is getting attacked... Bastion on health is ok but the build it takes too long and even for the instant cast you have people weaving in and out of the target zone so it's somewhat useless. Astral shield at least shows a circle in which other players can see and step into for healing.
I rely on voice chat to let people know if I'm being swarmed, although it's rarely a huge issue. Bastion is useless without divinity. I've never found that people are moving in and out of bastion as usually I'm casting it where everyone is already standing... I've never found it to be useless, plus it procs linked spirit which is never a waste.
i'm stuck on this too. this is my first game of any sort i've ever played that wasn't sega and i really like it but i've been stuck here for days. i'm level 39 and i might as well be a 2. i'm a cw and it says immune to everything i throw at it. and none of my companions are of much help. and as soon as i get it down 3 bars it rejuvenates or kills me with one blow. i've gone through countless potions and i've done all i can do. so i wonder if you have to have a party to beat this one. i've only ever been in parties when it was required and gave me a choice to queue. i don't even have friends on this game and my irl friends who play are only level 6s. i'm just so fed up with this guy. it basically gets to a point that i can't dodge because stamina then while i'm trying to run away it hits me with what might as well be a school bus. i'm merely a halfling and one of its steps is like 9 of mine lol.
and i read through this thread a little and it feels like you all speak another language. i don't know the shorthand speak so please if you reply to this use the whole words ,_, idk what t1 or t2 means but from context i gather "highly annoying baddy" and "impossible jerkface" and then there are some words i've never heard of like "nerfing" and "kiting" so idek. but man i'm about to pay someone else to beat this for me because i'm at my wit's end!
Thread is probably going to closed for the necro, but I'll answer anyway. Trying to think of what boss at around your level heals, so it would be in Ebon Downs, I guess? All of the undead bosses there are based on wights. AFAIK, none of them are immune to control however. Without knowing who you're fighting, it's impossible to give any advice besides finding a partner. Use zone chat and ask for someone to team up with you. At that level, it may take a few minutes to find someone, but be patient and don't span the channel.
Generally speaking, in a solo boss fight, kill everything but the boss first and kill the adds when they spawn. Don't try to focus on the boss while there are other enemies around. Doing more damage may just cause more enemies to spawn as it's usually based on the boss' health. For a wizard vs. a control immune creature, you need to practice burst damage. Most boss attacks are slow, get a little distance and throw as many damaging encounter powers as you can, then run. Don't teleport unless it's to avoid a big attack. Generally anything that isn't a slow, easy to spot attack isn't going to hit that hard. Use the shield spell to minimize damage.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
yes thank you much!
and the thing i'm trying to beat is called wraith eidolon. he's a big giant lava beast guy made of fire and death x_x
and all my ice spells deal like no damage or "immune" pops when i try to use my entangle (the one that looks like the vader force choke) or repel but all my lightning spells take too long and he sucks my life before i can cast them. and even ray of enfeeblement and frost ray make me stand still way too long. there's just like no way for me to win this alone x_X
but i didn't know there was a zone chat i'm going to go look into that and hope people wanna play with me c:
Some epic bosses are very hard but doable (some are even quite easy), but others are absolutely imbalanced (not the bosses themselves, but the amount of adds). Actually, adds wouldn't even be that much of a problem if they weren't simply *infinite*. Some bosses *require* certain classes or they can't be done with an average party (that is, a party that actually needs the drops from that particular boss, i'm not talking about 15k GS uber-premades here).
With most (almost all?) boss fights, bosses are just a minor nuisance to take care of while you're handling waves and waves of adds. As a GF I feel I should be tanking the boss, but that is never the case, my task is raking the adds and running in circles 90% of boss fights... -.- i.e. I've never touched a boss in Frozen Heart (except for the first 10 seconds of the fight, then addstorm ensues)...
With most (almost all?) boss fights, bosses are just a minor nuisance to take care of while you're handling waves and waves of adds. As a GF I feel I should be tanking the boss, but that is never the case, my task is raking the adds and running in circles 90% of boss fights... -.- i.e. I've never touched a boss in Frozen Heart (except for the first 10 seconds of the fight, then addstorm ensues)...
This is what a GF is forced to do in the end it seems:/
Im not knocking it as it works absolute wonders but my last run through FH we had a top notch threat pulling GF who all he did for 20mins was run circles.
I felt sorry for him as without him we would have all bit the dust but all he got to do was smash awsd and it must be hella boring/depressing having a 15K+ toon on traffic duty..
Added Info:
Even sadder is the fact that ive got a TR/GWF/CW/HR all at 60 and they are all so common its tough to find a dungeon sometimes (dont get me started on the broken queue system:/)
That im just levelling up my DC & GF now so I can be the one standing there healing non stop or running in circles for 20mins... its just a sad reflection of how the dungeons/mobs/bosses are put together.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is what a GF is forced to do in the end it seems:/
Im not knocking it as it works absolute wonders but my last run through FH we had a top notch threat pulling GF who all he did for 20mins was run circles.
I felt sorry for him as without him we would have all bit the dust but all he got to do was smash awsd and it must be hella boring/depressing having a 15K+ toon on traffic duty..
Added Info:
Even sadder is the fact that ive got a TR/GWF/CW/HR all at 60 and they are all so common its tough to find a dungeon sometimes (dont get me started on the broken queue system:/)
That im just levelling up my DC & GF now so I can be the one standing there healing non stop or running in circles for 20mins... its just a sad reflection of how the dungeons/mobs/bosses are put together.
Yep. It's because of this that I'm loathe to run FH on my GF(who I never run anything with now). It's just not much fun.
Well you should thank the devs for creating dungeons requiring a tank. In Malabog's castle or Valindra's tower, having a tank is always suboptimal. In VT, aggro is random, everything but the two bosses can be easily controlled and has very little HPs while doing only moderate melee damage, so you don't really want to have a tank but a pair of GWFs and a wizard instead. In malabog's castle, stuff may hit hard (sometimes) but there are again no ranged mobs, they're all slower than players, the red circles are small, and you have plenty of time to run away before they do anything... Again a tank is suboptimal.
So the kind of dungeons in which tanks can be useful are:
- full of adds with control abilities, ground is covered by red, stuff hits really hard and can one-shot squishy classes like TRs and CWs (maybe karrundax before they nerfed flamespikes).
- a lot of non-controllable adds during boss fights (like FH)
- a lot of ranged mobs (no dungeon so far, or maybe spider but at min GS only).
People complained for weeks about adds during boss fights, and now, we get boss fights without adds, but then we don't need tanks anymore because there's nothing to tank.
People complained for weeks about adds during boss fights, and now, we get boss fights without adds, but then we don't need tanks anymore because there's nothing to tank.
Solution is quite simple, make bosses a little more "sticky" and have a couple non-controllable types in every dungeon so it's undesirable (but not impossible) doing them without a tank. The Cragmire end boss is a good example, as well as Grey Wolf Den one, they have a bunch of stun/kd moves, some leap/teleport attacks and some obnoxious effects (AoE interdiction and shadow wolves).
You don't strictly need a tank, but if you want the boss to stay still for maximum damage (as opposed to constantly running around and dodging), a tank is more than welcome.
Solution is quite simple, make bosses a little more "sticky" and have a couple non-controllable types in every dungeon so it's undesirable (but not impossible) doing them without a tank. The Cragmire end boss is a good example, as well as Grey Wolf Den one, they have a bunch of stun/kd moves, some leap/teleport attacks and some obnoxious effects (AoE interdiction and shadow wolves).
You don't strictly need a tank, but if you want the boss to stay still for maximum damage (as opposed to constantly running around and dodging), a tank is more than welcome.
Well that's already the case in malabog's castle, the first boss and malabog have a couple of non controllable adds. It's easy to take care of them with any class, and the boss itself may be annoying, but again, it's at most 3-4 npcs at the same time, so, why taking a tank? As long as you can dodge, there's no issue. You need more than two (or four, or six) non controllable adds to require a GF in the party. And you also need ranged mobs like archers, mirror illusions, but with a bit more HPs so that it's not "let the cw use singularity and one-shot them".
Even sadder is the fact that ive got a TR/GWF/CW/HR all at 60 and they are all so common its tough to find a dungeon sometimes (dont get me started on the broken queue system:/)
That im just levelling up my DC & GF now so I can be the one standing there healing non stop or running in circles for 20mins... its just a sad reflection of how the dungeons/mobs/bosses are put together.
Don't hold your breath. I stood advertising my ''12.6k DC + Stone'' for a 4/4 CN run on Friday night for 30 minutes and got no takers.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
anyone who have problems to finish dungeons just stack 3x cw+dc+ anyone else and u are good to go and no way u will fail dungeon
I believe that's the point of the OP - it woud be nice to queue for a PUG and actually have a chance to complete said dungeon.
Requiring pre-mades with control control control .... pretty much makes every other DPS class useless.
Don't hold your breath. I stood advertising my ''12.6k DC + Stone'' for a 4/4 CN run on Friday night for 30 minutes and got no takers.
Yep, and now the pre-mades are requiring ever higher GSs to be even considered.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: NW_Legit is a great place to find dungeon teams. Especially at DD times, you'll almost always be able to find a group for SOMETHING, and they're generally far far less fussy about gear score.
(You just won't find a group that glitches bosses into walls or anything)
I believe that's the point of the OP - it woud be nice to queue for a PUG and actually have a chance to complete said dungeon.
Requiring pre-mades with control control control .... pretty much makes every other DPS class useless.
idk what devs excepted when they made cw?they made class who cc lock everything ,buff debuff damage a lot have the best dps in game, the best sets so why would anyone take tank or dps when cw makes they role useless for team anything else except cw is only huge slow down for your team
Don't hold your breath. I stood advertising my ''12.6k DC + Stone'' for a 4/4 CN run on Friday night for 30 minutes and got no takers.
Last time I tried to get in a party as a DC on /lfg i didn't have a lot of success myself, and my DC has a bit more GS than yours (15k or so). They were all looking for wizards and "TR runner" to do gods-know-what. :rolleyes:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: NW_Legit is a great place to find dungeon teams. Especially at DD times, you'll almost always be able to find a group for SOMETHING, and they're generally far far less fussy about gear score.
(You just won't find a group that glitches bosses into walls or anything)
Please allow me to add something. This is indeed a great channel provided you don't try to glitch stuff. That may mean leaving the instance if your party fails at killing the boss, because cheating is never an option. And this channel isn't a filler for /lfg parties. I've had some issues with it lately, people inviting me to fill /lfg groups and the experience was very unpleasant.
I'm not too picky when I make T2 groups on legit, but if you don't behave nicely there, there's no point joining this channel, because people will quickly add you to their /ignore list.
Anyone with problems doing t2 dungeons needs to realize that success in those dungeons rely on your party's skill, and ability to dps while avoiding red circles. If your party has low dps, uncoordinated, or is just plain bad it doesn't matter how good you are, you will always fail in the boss fight. The only exception would be in Frozen Heart and Spellplague dungeons, where a really good cleric or Guardian fighter can carry a weak group past the final boss with supreme add management, but if your party can't learn to dodge red circles then its a lost cause.
In dungeons like Temple of the spider or Karrundax, if you don't have a party that's fairly well geared and competent you're going to have a very bad time. But you can do 2/4 T2 dungeons with blue gear as long as you have a very skilled GF or DC, so these T2 dungeons are not impossible at all. I don't count Dread Vault because i hear the drops and loot there sucks, so i'd skip to castle Never after getting your T2 set.
As a GF i have never failed Frozen heart or Spellplague after getting my T1 Knights captain set, even with a PUG where 1 or 2 of the group member(s) can't dodge a red circle for their life. Once you understand the mechanics of a dungeon, and each class's role in it, T2 dungeons become very straightforward, though sometimes tedious due to the length if your group has low dps.
Comments
I followed Mewbrey's build and it works wonders - I use Bastion of Health and Healing word with Divine Fortune and Healer's Lore, and I'm never starved for divinity. I can't recall off the top of my head what my recovery is but it's somewhere around the 3k mark. Her guide to her build provides a more detailed explanation. I never thought I could possibly run without sunburst but for my playstyle, this is much more intuitive and I am able to heal at a distance if I need to, which is an added bonus.
That being said I don't really want to see the bosses get easier... I experience that with WoW and it was mighty dull after they nerfed everything.
I'm not saying it is but with people moving around sun bust provides aoe healing and a push back if mobs are on you. and with a lot of people QQing about push back in the game. When a cleric uses divinity sun burst its like a warning that says the cleric is getting attacked... Bastion on health is ok but the build it takes too long and even for the instant cast you have people weaving in and out of the target zone so it's somewhat useless. Astral shield at least shows a circle in which other players can see and step into for healing.
I have some friends who apparently used to play neverwinter nights religiously who share those same complaints. They had some preconceived notion that because this game had the name neverwinter that it would be just like that old game they used to play and were really excited about it, even though the developers were pretty explicit in stating that this game has nothing to do with that game. Clearly this game was not meant to be what they, or apparently you, though it should be. I'm sure that's disappointing, but the fault is in your expectations of the game and not in the game. They aren't going to totally redesign the game from a combat focused one into a full blown RPG just because some people think they have misused a license they paid good money for.
I rely on voice chat to let people know if I'm being swarmed, although it's rarely a huge issue. Bastion is useless without divinity. I've never found that people are moving in and out of bastion as usually I'm casting it where everyone is already standing... I've never found it to be useless, plus it procs linked spirit which is never a waste.
and i read through this thread a little and it feels like you all speak another language. i don't know the shorthand speak so please if you reply to this use the whole words ,_, idk what t1 or t2 means but from context i gather "highly annoying baddy" and "impossible jerkface" and then there are some words i've never heard of like "nerfing" and "kiting" so idek. but man i'm about to pay someone else to beat this for me because i'm at my wit's end!
Generally speaking, in a solo boss fight, kill everything but the boss first and kill the adds when they spawn. Don't try to focus on the boss while there are other enemies around. Doing more damage may just cause more enemies to spawn as it's usually based on the boss' health. For a wizard vs. a control immune creature, you need to practice burst damage. Most boss attacks are slow, get a little distance and throw as many damaging encounter powers as you can, then run. Don't teleport unless it's to avoid a big attack. Generally anything that isn't a slow, easy to spot attack isn't going to hit that hard. Use the shield spell to minimize damage.
and the thing i'm trying to beat is called wraith eidolon. he's a big giant lava beast guy made of fire and death x_x
and all my ice spells deal like no damage or "immune" pops when i try to use my entangle (the one that looks like the vader force choke) or repel but all my lightning spells take too long and he sucks my life before i can cast them. and even ray of enfeeblement and frost ray make me stand still way too long. there's just like no way for me to win this alone x_X
but i didn't know there was a zone chat i'm going to go look into that and hope people wanna play with me c:
With most (almost all?) boss fights, bosses are just a minor nuisance to take care of while you're handling waves and waves of adds. As a GF I feel I should be tanking the boss, but that is never the case, my task is raking the adds and running in circles 90% of boss fights... -.- i.e. I've never touched a boss in Frozen Heart (except for the first 10 seconds of the fight, then addstorm ensues)...
This is what a GF is forced to do in the end it seems:/
Im not knocking it as it works absolute wonders but my last run through FH we had a top notch threat pulling GF who all he did for 20mins was run circles.
I felt sorry for him as without him we would have all bit the dust but all he got to do was smash awsd and it must be hella boring/depressing having a 15K+ toon on traffic duty..
Added Info:
Even sadder is the fact that ive got a TR/GWF/CW/HR all at 60 and they are all so common its tough to find a dungeon sometimes (dont get me started on the broken queue system:/)
That im just levelling up my DC & GF now so I can be the one standing there healing non stop or running in circles for 20mins... its just a sad reflection of how the dungeons/mobs/bosses are put together.
Yep. It's because of this that I'm loathe to run FH on my GF(who I never run anything with now). It's just not much fun.
So the kind of dungeons in which tanks can be useful are:
- full of adds with control abilities, ground is covered by red, stuff hits really hard and can one-shot squishy classes like TRs and CWs (maybe karrundax before they nerfed flamespikes).
- a lot of non-controllable adds during boss fights (like FH)
- a lot of ranged mobs (no dungeon so far, or maybe spider but at min GS only).
People complained for weeks about adds during boss fights, and now, we get boss fights without adds, but then we don't need tanks anymore because there's nothing to tank.
Solution is quite simple, make bosses a little more "sticky" and have a couple non-controllable types in every dungeon so it's undesirable (but not impossible) doing them without a tank. The Cragmire end boss is a good example, as well as Grey Wolf Den one, they have a bunch of stun/kd moves, some leap/teleport attacks and some obnoxious effects (AoE interdiction and shadow wolves).
You don't strictly need a tank, but if you want the boss to stay still for maximum damage (as opposed to constantly running around and dodging), a tank is more than welcome.
Well that's already the case in malabog's castle, the first boss and malabog have a couple of non controllable adds. It's easy to take care of them with any class, and the boss itself may be annoying, but again, it's at most 3-4 npcs at the same time, so, why taking a tank? As long as you can dodge, there's no issue. You need more than two (or four, or six) non controllable adds to require a GF in the party. And you also need ranged mobs like archers, mirror illusions, but with a bit more HPs so that it's not "let the cw use singularity and one-shot them".
Don't hold your breath. I stood advertising my ''12.6k DC + Stone'' for a 4/4 CN run on Friday night for 30 minutes and got no takers.
I believe that's the point of the OP - it woud be nice to queue for a PUG and actually have a chance to complete said dungeon.
Requiring pre-mades with control control control .... pretty much makes every other DPS class useless.
Yep, and now the pre-mades are requiring ever higher GSs to be even considered.
(You just won't find a group that glitches bosses into walls or anything)
idk what devs excepted when they made cw?they made class who cc lock everything ,buff debuff damage a lot have the best dps in game, the best sets so why would anyone take tank or dps when cw makes they role useless for team anything else except cw is only huge slow down for your team
brainz i need brainzzzzz
Last time I tried to get in a party as a DC on /lfg i didn't have a lot of success myself, and my DC has a bit more GS than yours (15k or so). They were all looking for wizards and "TR runner" to do gods-know-what. :rolleyes:
Please allow me to add something. This is indeed a great channel provided you don't try to glitch stuff. That may mean leaving the instance if your party fails at killing the boss, because cheating is never an option. And this channel isn't a filler for /lfg parties. I've had some issues with it lately, people inviting me to fill /lfg groups and the experience was very unpleasant.
I'm not too picky when I make T2 groups on legit, but if you don't behave nicely there, there's no point joining this channel, because people will quickly add you to their /ignore list.
Maybe we're playing different games, but I regularly do dungeons with no CW. GWF AoE DPS tanking can make clears remarkably quick.
In dungeons like Temple of the spider or Karrundax, if you don't have a party that's fairly well geared and competent you're going to have a very bad time. But you can do 2/4 T2 dungeons with blue gear as long as you have a very skilled GF or DC, so these T2 dungeons are not impossible at all. I don't count Dread Vault because i hear the drops and loot there sucks, so i'd skip to castle Never after getting your T2 set.
As a GF i have never failed Frozen heart or Spellplague after getting my T1 Knights captain set, even with a PUG where 1 or 2 of the group member(s) can't dodge a red circle for their life. Once you understand the mechanics of a dungeon, and each class's role in it, T2 dungeons become very straightforward, though sometimes tedious due to the length if your group has low dps.