I wonder why the GWF get no love in the picks at all even though any decent GWF can out dps a CW and TR as well as add tanking / buff / debuff support.
Feeling misunderstood
xD
I actually find the GF obsolete at the moment, last 10 T2 dungeons I've run without a GF ... all went well. Is tanking really unnecessary in this game?
A GWF can outdps a TR in an AoE dung, a GF can outdps a GWF in an AoE dung (by a lot), while also doing more single target. CW is used to spam blackholes, how many you run depends on how many you need to spam blackhole. Also, i'm talking about DPS GF, not tank GF.
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alacardias1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I have read through every reply to my Original Statement about the T2 Bosses. I would like to first agree with 90% of the replies about me wanting to T2 Boss "Fights" being nerfed is dead wrong. I want the T2 Bosses being difficult with "Their" abilities. But, is it so wrong to bring up that "Too Many Adds" with the Bosses make it almost too difficult. There are about 5 to 7% of level 60s that have even got enough GS of 9200 and over to get into Into the Never Dungeon. These individuals most likely worked their assess off for their gear and I give them 100% credit. But, when I am working very hard inside T2 dungeon "As a Tank" so that I can at least be efficient "even though the class is broken", and when we get to the last boss everyone says thank you for the run and leaves; kind of makes me a little angry. This happens around 80% of the runs, because they state it is more easy to quit here and rerun for the 8 to 10 badges of Drakes from the first bosses. This at least allows them to most likely get gear off the two easy bosses and badges for better gear. That should not be happening within a game. You make the dungeons difficult, but when everyone are conducting the specific duties they are meant and still 90% of the time get wiped; it makes it difficult not to ask for a little nerfing. Plus, 100% of the other 20% of my runs; everyone wants to "Bug" the boss so that we can win the last fight. Where do you think they found out how to "Bug" the boss in the first place. I would most likely put my account up for action if it would NOT be the individuals being angry about me posting this thread in the first place stating that its easy for them. So, that being said; go Troll Yourself somewhere else, and let people vent the issue in peace!
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fenrirtogMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
A GWF can outdps a TR in an AoE dung, a GF can outdps a GWF in an AoE dung (by a lot), while also doing more single target. CW is used to spam blackholes, how many you run depends on how many you need to spam blackhole. Also, i'm talking about DPS GF, not tank GF.
Never met a GF that did more dps than me .... I've run over 30 t2's. Even a DPS spec GF has never done more dps, and most definitely not in AOE.
As for singularity, yes I love it, it's fantastic complement to my AOE build. That magnetic shield knockback thing ... not loving that too much, but then we are moving into TEAMWORK, which is what this thread was all about.
As long as you have a bunch of people that are working together as a team, rather than trying to get the number for 'look how leet i am at deeps' you will win in all the T2's.
Never met a GF that did more dps than me .... I've run over 30 t2's. Even a DPS spec GF has never done more dps, and most definitely not in AOE.
As for singularity, yes I love it, it's fantastic complement to my AOE build. That magnetic shield knockback thing ... not loving that too much, but then we are moving into TEAMWORK, which is what this thread was all about.
As long as you have a bunch of people that are working together as a team, rather than trying to get the number for 'look how leet i am at deeps' you will win in all the T2's.
Because there's not many, or many good ones. I honestly am the highest AoE dps in the Mindflayer.
You can 2 or 3 man every end boss in the game. It's just about having the right understanding of what each class is used for and what positioning should be used for each boss. Being able to build your character correctly is also hugely important. If you go into a dungeon without all of these factors in your favour do you really deserve to kill the hardest bosses in the game?
If you want easy fights, then stick with T1. T2 has better gear, so of course the encounters will be more difficult. This is the end-game. Until you become very experienced in it, it should be difficult with a good chance of failing.
I enjoy hard fights, so keep them hard or make them harder. My issue is with the same mechanics for every fight (wave of adds).
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tyranionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A GWF can outdps a TR in an AoE dung, a GF can outdps a GWF in an AoE dung (by a lot), while also doing more single target. CW is used to spam blackholes, how many you run depends on how many you need to spam blackhole. Also, i'm talking about DPS GF, not tank GF.
The only way GWFs can even come close to TR damage is if the TR is terribly spec'd, using PvP gear, and has no idea what he's doing. All else being equal expect a TR to do about 150% the damage of a GWF. A properly spec'd/geared/played TR will wipe the floor with any other class, maybe not for the biggest AE trash pulls, but the gap gets huge for any single target situations.
For example, in the Temple of the Spider I expect about 11 million damage done by TRs at the time we get to High Priestess Syndrith, 7 million for CWs, 7 million for GWFs, 5 million for GFs, and 4 million for DCs. This is why I have no interest in grouping with GWFs or GFs. They just make everything slower and less efficient. Instead of a GWF I can bring another CW who brings more control, the same personal damage, and boosts the party's damage. A GWF's buffs are nothing compared to Arcane Singularity's utility, and frankly I doubt they'd have better debuffs than Ray of Enfeeblement, which boosts damage done by a shocking 50% on a single target, or Conduit of Ice, which boosts damage done by 15% in an AE if you spec into it.
I have a 60 DC, a 60 CW, and I've cleared everything, including Castle Never but not Epic Dread Vault, with both characters. I don't group with GWFs or GFs unless I have to. Given a choice I put together 2 DC, 2 CW, 1 TR as my favorite composition. 1 DC 2 CW 2 TR works well too, but 2 DC is safer, and not much less damage if the two DCs are both very good at maximizing buffs/debuffs uptime.
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tyranionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Because there's not many, or many good ones. I honestly am the highest AoE dps in the Mindflayer.
I'm on Mindflayer and I'd be very interested to see a good GF DPS, because I haven't ever met one that did more DPS than a CW, much less come close to a TR. What's your in game name? I'll look you up.
I do think too many people confuse exploit and tactics, probably coming from WoW where attempting to get any high ground or other tactical advantage in PVE was met with "EVADE" from all mobs. But knocking things off ledges, getting high ground on your opponent, or otherwise finding a way to strike at foes without getting struck back is tactics.
That said, I do think the bosses I have met in the t2 dungeons should probably be tuned down a little, so people don't have to use such tactics as the only way to beat these giant sacks of hp with their one shot attacks and infinite minions. Bosses and their AI don't seem to use much in the way of tactics, they're just giant hammers with inflated numbers. I'd love to see that aspect improved upon.
For example, in the Temple of the Spider I expect about 11 million damage done by TRs at the time we get to High Priestess Syndrith, 7 million for CWs, 7 million for GWFs, 5 million for GFs, and 4 million for DCs.
You play with very bad GFs.
I haven't done less damage than a CW in ages. I am usualy first in damage done with my GF, unless I am running spider temple with a -good- rogue. I am hardly the best equipped or most skilled GF around. I like to think that I play with decent people (used to just pug, then pugging met some nice people that were impressed by my damage/tanking so I run DD with them often now when I am not still pugging), as we can easily clear all T2 fast and generally with a clean run without deaths (haven't finished CN and DV epic yet because CN is too **** boring/long and DV I keep being told it's pointless and no one wants to do it).
Again, I think you just met either bad GFs, or GFs that weren't even trying to do/maximize their damage.
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tyranionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You play with very bad GFs.
I haven't done less damage than a CW in ages. I am usualy first in damage done with my GF, unless I am running spider temple with a -good- rogue. I am hardly the best equipped or most skilled GF around. I like to think that I play with decent people (used to just pug, then pugging met some nice people that were impressed by my damage/tanking so I run DD with them often now when I am not still pugging), as we can easily clear all T2 fast and generally with a clean run without deaths (haven't finished CN and DV epic yet because CN is too **** boring/long and DV I keep being told it's pointless and no one wants to do it).
Again, I think you just met either bad GFs, or GFs that weren't even trying to do/maximize their damage.
To be fair, most CWs are terrible too. Frankly I got so fed up with it on my Cleric that I rolled a CW myself (Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong). As for Guardians doing more damage than bad wizards...how does that make having a Guardian optimized? If you can't beat a good TR's damage, and I see you're quite realistic about that, and can't bring the control of a CW or the second blue circle of a DC, what makes you the optimal choice for 1 of 5 slots? I can understand you being a viable choice, obviously I've played with GFs that focus on the traditional tanking role rather than DPS, and I've done fine, cleared everything including Epic Castle Never. I didn't bother with DV for the same reason you didn't. That's different from an optimal choice.
For example, in the Temple of the Spider I expect about 11 million damage done by TRs at the time we get to High Priestess Syndrith, 7 million for CWs, 7 million for GWFs, 5 million for GFs, and 4 million for DCs.
When I do that same run I expect no more than 6 million DPS from anyone. DCs and CWs should be at the top.
Damage numbers like the ones you are reporting indicates you are wasting time killing things. Almost everything in that run can be thrown off a ledge except Driders and a few pulls. Much faster to just pitch it over the edge. This leads to significantly smaller damage numbers and TRs are usually down near the bottom because they never really hit anything. You do need a TR or two for the final boss though, they just don't do much the rest of the run.
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debarrierMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Massive Adds?
Oh, i see ad spawning, lemme just dps the boss more.
so to you real content is dungeons where EVERY bosses abilities are all basically some form of red circle to dodge and spawning countless adds? that makes for rewarding gameplay to you?
If you're quitting - fine feel free to do whatever , but don't expect the devs to dumb down the game even more to the point where any PuG of first timers can farm high end content .
My regular group has all 5 classes, and we have no problems with any of the T2 bosses. Sure, we wiped a few times when experimenting and learning, but that is to be expected. If your tactics are not working, then you just need to change them.
Yes, the current boss mechanics feel mediocre, but they're certainly not difficult.
First of all, I have been playing MMORPGs for a while. Conducted Raids on Vanilla WoW with 40 men. But, I have never ever had to deal with so many issues in just Epic Dungeons like these.
The group I just went with inside of a T2 dungeon got all the way to the boss without any issues. No wipes a few deaths but nothing to worry about. But, when we got to the boss fight; it seemed like none of us had gear to even try.
Cryptic, if your goal was to make a game that is so difficult that gamers do not enjoy; you have achieved your goal.
If there is no change on scaling down the boss fights in the next patches, seems that I will have to find another game!
Which Dungeon did you attempt? Some bosses are DPS races and others require specific team comps to beat without exploiting them. So if you have the wrong team comp or not enough dps your team won't be able to beat it without exploiting.
If you're quitting - fine feel free to do whatever , but don't expect the devs to dumb down the game even more to the point where any PuG of first timers can farm high end content .
I really hope that this will never happen .
Agreed as there is always World of Warcraft for that easy mode pug any content to include raids.
The bosses arent that difficult its the Gear Score problem that is what makes it so difficult. Wearing the T1 pvp gear puts you at almost 9k so when it says 8300 GS it means 8300 GS PvE gear and most players do not have the PvE gear to truly be effective in PvE dungeons and that is what makes it seem so difficult.
The bosses arent that difficult its the Gear Score problem that is what makes it so difficult. Wearing the T1 pvp gear puts you at almost 9k so when it says 8300 GS it means 8300 GS PvE gear and most players do not have the PvE gear to truly be effective in PvE dungeons and that is what makes it seem so difficult.
Your ignorance is showing. I've done all content in PvP Gear + Enchants.
We take fresh 60's guildmates into T2 content that barely meet the GS requirements and can 3-4 man the dungeons. There are just a few bosses that are hard to 3 man.
You just need to know the boss fight mechanic's and able to handle the trash adds that spawn.
I would just like some explanation about the special mechanics some bosses have. Spider queen for example. The normal instance is so easy i had no idea she healed herself. So when in the epic version, i was shocked this boss was healing herself so much.
Never finished that run as the group wasnt very geared (imo yoi need more than 8.3k gs to kill this boss) and some guys golem pet kept standing in her aoe. **** thing wouldnt die either. So the boss was using it as a heal battery.
Gear score is not the issue here. Gear score is easily inflated with bad stat balance, and does in no way indicate the player's level of skill. A large portion of this game's population are players who exploit their way past TRASH in dungeons. I wouldn't expect much skill to be found among players who cheat in an MMO.
I think it's mostly a l2adapt issue rather than a l2p.
Bosses are boring and long, so they are "hard" because the longer the fight, the higher the chance you do unforgiving mistakes.
This game contrary to wow (and especially vanilla wow) has a lot of skills involved in moving/dodging and aiming. Vanilla wow, not to be blunt) is not even an indication of skills. You did Molten Core when people where trying Chtun or Naxx? That's not a measure of difficulty, you just need 10 out of 40 skilled people to succeed. The measure of your "hardcoreness" is WHEN you did the content not IF, if you were in a progression guild or a casual guild. Also 40men raids were much more forgiving where every single player's skill counted much less. There have been manymore hard fights, MC was a joke, was surely easier than some T2 bosses in here, especially cause your contribution is 1/5th and generally can't be backed up by someone else.
Fights aren't inherently hard once you know the strat. The problem is you can execute all strats with all group comps. So first you need to know the optimal and minimal comp for the end boss fight, then adapt depending on the comp. Some comps make fights trivial, some others make it impossible.
Anyway I think saying T2 dungeons are "too" hard is just plain wrong. There are few end bosses that are harder or require gimmick comps especially if you are barely geared for the place. However gear is a rather moot problem when enchants contribute to your GS (supposing you use proper stats) much more than the difference between t1 and t2.
From my experience I can say (talking about epic dungeons ofc):
- SP seemed impossible first time I tried, then you learn it's all about the start and the last phase, but being long you can stil wipe. Having a tank to kite adds in last phase, a rogue on boss, a cw and a dc is more or less the requirement, which is about a normal comp.
- FH still needs a tank for kiting, a dc and some dps (possibly rogues since they shine on single target). Only sharpshooters requires to be killed and mostly depending on who they aggro.
- Karr is kind of straightforward, last boss isn't really hard as long as you have a dc and a cw.
- Pirate requires a dc and a cw, with a tank it's easier, but not required
- Spider temple last boss is rather hard, you need a strat especially when your dps is low, survive the blademasters and knock them off the webs when Syndrith heals.
- DV is a pain, an unrewarding pain. Apart a DC you don't strictly need a specific comp as long as someone is able to push adds off, but the dungeon is really bad, with such a long trash path just before first boss. Not super hard, but again very long, so you are more exposed to mistakes.
- CN is not that hard as long as you let the cw do his job, but for last boss you prefer a cw (even if dc can sunburst) and some gimmick comp because it's so long when undergeared that the chance to wipe is very high.
So, talking about last bosses, 4 out of 6 T2 epics are easily doable without doing n.o.o.b mistakes (which is why you tend to wipe when you don't know the strat), just with a normal comp, 1 of each class or some combinatins of double cw, dc or tr. Gfs are good at easing the kill by reducing the chance cw and dc dies (they kind of peel each other off).
2 out of 6 are harder and/or need more specific comps.
The last tier instance is harder and requires some gimmick comp, but I am pretty sure most of the "dungeons are too hard" posts aren't about CN.
Then consider that many people just cleared T2s without exploits and with intended gear (it takes more but it doesn't make it impossible). And just to reassure you, if you did wipe it doesnt mean YOU are bad. But you need 5 people's effort and nobody can be carried when you are barely geared for the fights.
This is an action MMO game, not a FPS or theme park one. The game require good gaming skills, you need to watch what the npcs do, learn their spells, how and when they use it, etc. Don't be afraid to wipe a few times to be able to pay attention to mobs. If you only focus on killing the boss it may not work at all, and you won't find any solution if you didn't learn anything.
Some boss fights aren't easy, but you really need a good control wizard doing control, stunning mobs, repelling them, pushing them off edges, etc. If you see a dps wizard then you're doomed. When you get skilled it's really a nice game. All boss fights are doable. Not all of them are easy (im thinking to epic dread vault, i've done CN many times but still have trouble with this one), and it often depends on how good your CW is because of adds, but it's definitely not an issue.
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gornonthecobMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 421Arc User
edited July 2013
Just tried to fight Syndrith. What a complete waste of an evening. Our group pushed through the dungeon with only a few bumps in the road. Nothing major. It was a dedicated PuG. Nobody left, and I was feeling like this could be a great group.
When we got to Syndrith, everything came to a crashing halt.
I will NEVER do another T2 dungeon until they get rid of the adds. I don't want to see one **** add in ANY boss fight. I want mechanics. So until I see a patch note that says ALL bosses have been reworked with mechanics and fewer or zero adds, I have retired my cleric and mage.
Once I finish the adventure zones on my rogue, I'm sticking to foundry missions. Hell, at least there I'd get some type of loot for playing for 2 hours.
Im not and elitest by any means my GS GWF 8973 cant even knock over the dreadvault on normal mode end boss, ran this 7-9 times never even got close, the add swarm for every dungeon is crazy normal, t1, t2,
Tried lair of the mad dragon epic FAIL, 2nd boss mephit swarms on cleric, doesnt even do anything to aggro, 40 pots, and 30 heal kits wasted, but no control wizard present. spent close to 1 and a half hours in delve in total 1 hour trying to fight demon, rezzing and running to boss only to see it reset with about 1/4 health left constantly.
Tried spellplague caverns t2 a few times now, got to second boss, adds crazy, probably shouldnt have attempted with it being 8300, but ran out of heal kits, pots u name it, it destroyed guild mates into dropping game, "great game, but shocking game ai/boss mechanic, thats just fill everything with adds",(no control wizard present) im still hanging around but pugging it at this point to find out how other groups can be successful in dungeons.
cragmire, cloaktower breeze
i dont want everything given to me on a silver plate, but now with half my guild out and more guildies becoming frustrated it wont be long before ill be pugging it fulltime.
Only one class on the horizon before xmas, wow this is pretty dire.
Comments
A GWF can outdps a TR in an AoE dung, a GF can outdps a GWF in an AoE dung (by a lot), while also doing more single target. CW is used to spam blackholes, how many you run depends on how many you need to spam blackhole. Also, i'm talking about DPS GF, not tank GF.
Never met a GF that did more dps than me .... I've run over 30 t2's. Even a DPS spec GF has never done more dps, and most definitely not in AOE.
As for singularity, yes I love it, it's fantastic complement to my AOE build. That magnetic shield knockback thing ... not loving that too much, but then we are moving into TEAMWORK, which is what this thread was all about.
As long as you have a bunch of people that are working together as a team, rather than trying to get the number for 'look how leet i am at deeps' you will win in all the T2's.
Because there's not many, or many good ones. I honestly am the highest AoE dps in the Mindflayer.
I enjoy hard fights, so keep them hard or make them harder. My issue is with the same mechanics for every fight (wave of adds).
The only way GWFs can even come close to TR damage is if the TR is terribly spec'd, using PvP gear, and has no idea what he's doing. All else being equal expect a TR to do about 150% the damage of a GWF. A properly spec'd/geared/played TR will wipe the floor with any other class, maybe not for the biggest AE trash pulls, but the gap gets huge for any single target situations.
For example, in the Temple of the Spider I expect about 11 million damage done by TRs at the time we get to High Priestess Syndrith, 7 million for CWs, 7 million for GWFs, 5 million for GFs, and 4 million for DCs. This is why I have no interest in grouping with GWFs or GFs. They just make everything slower and less efficient. Instead of a GWF I can bring another CW who brings more control, the same personal damage, and boosts the party's damage. A GWF's buffs are nothing compared to Arcane Singularity's utility, and frankly I doubt they'd have better debuffs than Ray of Enfeeblement, which boosts damage done by a shocking 50% on a single target, or Conduit of Ice, which boosts damage done by 15% in an AE if you spec into it.
I have a 60 DC, a 60 CW, and I've cleared everything, including Castle Never but not Epic Dread Vault, with both characters. I don't group with GWFs or GFs unless I have to. Given a choice I put together 2 DC, 2 CW, 1 TR as my favorite composition. 1 DC 2 CW 2 TR works well too, but 2 DC is safer, and not much less damage if the two DCs are both very good at maximizing buffs/debuffs uptime.
I'm on Mindflayer and I'd be very interested to see a good GF DPS, because I haven't ever met one that did more DPS than a CW, much less come close to a TR. What's your in game name? I'll look you up.
That said, I do think the bosses I have met in the t2 dungeons should probably be tuned down a little, so people don't have to use such tactics as the only way to beat these giant sacks of hp with their one shot attacks and infinite minions. Bosses and their AI don't seem to use much in the way of tactics, they're just giant hammers with inflated numbers. I'd love to see that aspect improved upon.
You play with very bad GFs.
I haven't done less damage than a CW in ages. I am usualy first in damage done with my GF, unless I am running spider temple with a -good- rogue. I am hardly the best equipped or most skilled GF around. I like to think that I play with decent people (used to just pug, then pugging met some nice people that were impressed by my damage/tanking so I run DD with them often now when I am not still pugging), as we can easily clear all T2 fast and generally with a clean run without deaths (haven't finished CN and DV epic yet because CN is too **** boring/long and DV I keep being told it's pointless and no one wants to do it).
Again, I think you just met either bad GFs, or GFs that weren't even trying to do/maximize their damage.
To be fair, most CWs are terrible too. Frankly I got so fed up with it on my Cleric that I rolled a CW myself (Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong). As for Guardians doing more damage than bad wizards...how does that make having a Guardian optimized? If you can't beat a good TR's damage, and I see you're quite realistic about that, and can't bring the control of a CW or the second blue circle of a DC, what makes you the optimal choice for 1 of 5 slots? I can understand you being a viable choice, obviously I've played with GFs that focus on the traditional tanking role rather than DPS, and I've done fine, cleared everything including Epic Castle Never. I didn't bother with DV for the same reason you didn't. That's different from an optimal choice.
When I do that same run I expect no more than 6 million DPS from anyone. DCs and CWs should be at the top.
Damage numbers like the ones you are reporting indicates you are wasting time killing things. Almost everything in that run can be thrown off a ledge except Driders and a few pulls. Much faster to just pitch it over the edge. This leads to significantly smaller damage numbers and TRs are usually down near the bottom because they never really hit anything. You do need a TR or two for the final boss though, they just don't do much the rest of the run.
Oh, i see ad spawning, lemme just dps the boss more.
so to you real content is dungeons where EVERY bosses abilities are all basically some form of red circle to dodge and spawning countless adds? that makes for rewarding gameplay to you?
I really hope that this will never happen .
Yes, the current boss mechanics feel mediocre, but they're certainly not difficult.
Which Dungeon did you attempt? Some bosses are DPS races and others require specific team comps to beat without exploiting them. So if you have the wrong team comp or not enough dps your team won't be able to beat it without exploiting.
Agreed as there is always World of Warcraft for that easy mode pug any content to include raids.
Your ignorance is showing. I've done all content in PvP Gear + Enchants.
We take fresh 60's guildmates into T2 content that barely meet the GS requirements and can 3-4 man the dungeons. There are just a few bosses that are hard to 3 man.
You just need to know the boss fight mechanic's and able to handle the trash adds that spawn.
Never finished that run as the group wasnt very geared (imo yoi need more than 8.3k gs to kill this boss) and some guys golem pet kept standing in her aoe. **** thing wouldnt die either. So the boss was using it as a heal battery.
Bosses are boring and long, so they are "hard" because the longer the fight, the higher the chance you do unforgiving mistakes.
This game contrary to wow (and especially vanilla wow) has a lot of skills involved in moving/dodging and aiming. Vanilla wow, not to be blunt) is not even an indication of skills. You did Molten Core when people where trying Chtun or Naxx? That's not a measure of difficulty, you just need 10 out of 40 skilled people to succeed. The measure of your "hardcoreness" is WHEN you did the content not IF, if you were in a progression guild or a casual guild. Also 40men raids were much more forgiving where every single player's skill counted much less. There have been manymore hard fights, MC was a joke, was surely easier than some T2 bosses in here, especially cause your contribution is 1/5th and generally can't be backed up by someone else.
Fights aren't inherently hard once you know the strat. The problem is you can execute all strats with all group comps. So first you need to know the optimal and minimal comp for the end boss fight, then adapt depending on the comp. Some comps make fights trivial, some others make it impossible.
Anyway I think saying T2 dungeons are "too" hard is just plain wrong. There are few end bosses that are harder or require gimmick comps especially if you are barely geared for the place. However gear is a rather moot problem when enchants contribute to your GS (supposing you use proper stats) much more than the difference between t1 and t2.
From my experience I can say (talking about epic dungeons ofc):
- SP seemed impossible first time I tried, then you learn it's all about the start and the last phase, but being long you can stil wipe. Having a tank to kite adds in last phase, a rogue on boss, a cw and a dc is more or less the requirement, which is about a normal comp.
- FH still needs a tank for kiting, a dc and some dps (possibly rogues since they shine on single target). Only sharpshooters requires to be killed and mostly depending on who they aggro.
- Karr is kind of straightforward, last boss isn't really hard as long as you have a dc and a cw.
- Pirate requires a dc and a cw, with a tank it's easier, but not required
- Spider temple last boss is rather hard, you need a strat especially when your dps is low, survive the blademasters and knock them off the webs when Syndrith heals.
- DV is a pain, an unrewarding pain. Apart a DC you don't strictly need a specific comp as long as someone is able to push adds off, but the dungeon is really bad, with such a long trash path just before first boss. Not super hard, but again very long, so you are more exposed to mistakes.
- CN is not that hard as long as you let the cw do his job, but for last boss you prefer a cw (even if dc can sunburst) and some gimmick comp because it's so long when undergeared that the chance to wipe is very high.
So, talking about last bosses, 4 out of 6 T2 epics are easily doable without doing n.o.o.b mistakes (which is why you tend to wipe when you don't know the strat), just with a normal comp, 1 of each class or some combinatins of double cw, dc or tr. Gfs are good at easing the kill by reducing the chance cw and dc dies (they kind of peel each other off).
2 out of 6 are harder and/or need more specific comps.
The last tier instance is harder and requires some gimmick comp, but I am pretty sure most of the "dungeons are too hard" posts aren't about CN.
Then consider that many people just cleared T2s without exploits and with intended gear (it takes more but it doesn't make it impossible). And just to reassure you, if you did wipe it doesnt mean YOU are bad. But you need 5 people's effort and nobody can be carried when you are barely geared for the fights.
Some boss fights aren't easy, but you really need a good control wizard doing control, stunning mobs, repelling them, pushing them off edges, etc. If you see a dps wizard then you're doomed. When you get skilled it's really a nice game. All boss fights are doable. Not all of them are easy (im thinking to epic dread vault, i've done CN many times but still have trouble with this one), and it often depends on how good your CW is because of adds, but it's definitely not an issue.
When we got to Syndrith, everything came to a crashing halt.
I will NEVER do another T2 dungeon until they get rid of the adds. I don't want to see one **** add in ANY boss fight. I want mechanics. So until I see a patch note that says ALL bosses have been reworked with mechanics and fewer or zero adds, I have retired my cleric and mage.
Once I finish the adventure zones on my rogue, I'm sticking to foundry missions. Hell, at least there I'd get some type of loot for playing for 2 hours.
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all i read tbh. learn to stay alive instead
Tried lair of the mad dragon epic FAIL, 2nd boss mephit swarms on cleric, doesnt even do anything to aggro, 40 pots, and 30 heal kits wasted, but no control wizard present. spent close to 1 and a half hours in delve in total 1 hour trying to fight demon, rezzing and running to boss only to see it reset with about 1/4 health left constantly.
Tried spellplague caverns t2 a few times now, got to second boss, adds crazy, probably shouldnt have attempted with it being 8300, but ran out of heal kits, pots u name it, it destroyed guild mates into dropping game, "great game, but shocking game ai/boss mechanic, thats just fill everything with adds",(no control wizard present) im still hanging around but pugging it at this point to find out how other groups can be successful in dungeons.
cragmire, cloaktower breeze
i dont want everything given to me on a silver plate, but now with half my guild out and more guildies becoming frustrated it wont be long before ill be pugging it fulltime.
Only one class on the horizon before xmas, wow this is pretty dire.