I think this argument boils down to this: The tank should know what to threat and when, and if he does not, then well, maybe he needs to practice a bit more.
As a CW, I tend to watch the cleric closely, and keep them adds of his ***.
"You have a wife and kids? If so, what would happen, if we called you in at 1am, everytime something went wrong!
Be respectful, remember, you PLAY the game at your convenience, they WORK at no ones."
I think this argument boils down to this: The tank should know what to threat and when, and if he does not, then well, maybe he needs to practice a bit more.
As a CW, I tend to watch the cleric closely, and keep them adds of his ***.
Go play a GF. There is not what and when. Threat is broken right now. Couple that with the tank companion who seems to have a never ending taunt, and it becomes a pain in the *** to tank anything in this game. Not to mention that all GF aoe threat is based off the mark and every **** unloads all their AOE as soon as the mobs spawn.
Go play a GF. There is not what and when. Threat is broken right now. Couple that with the tank companion who seems to have a never ending taunt, and it becomes a pain in the *** to tank anything in this game. Not to mention that all GF aoe threat is based off the mark and every **** unloads all their AOE as soon as the mobs spawn.
That's odd.
I have been in a few groups, where the cleric was being chased like he stole something, and I have also been in a few groups,where the cleric was merely untouched.
With that far of a spectrum, I would not say it is "broke",but rather GFs need better rotation?
But, I also do not have a high level GF,so my point may be moot, but I see what I see my friend.
"You have a wife and kids? If so, what would happen, if we called you in at 1am, everytime something went wrong!
Be respectful, remember, you PLAY the game at your convenience, they WORK at no ones."
That's odd.
I have been in a few groups, where the cleric was being chased like he stole something, and I have also been in a few groups,where the cleric was merely untouched.
With that far of a spectrum, I would not say it is "broke",but rather GFs need better rotation?
But, I also do not have a high level GF,so my point may be moot, but I see what I see my friend.
Thats odd, in every dungeons I have ever been in I, as a cleric, have been ferociously and endlessly assaulted by every mob the dungeon, skirmish and boss can throw at me. I have even gone to the trouble to experiment in the pit fight skirmish, I stood at the entrance in the pit, did nothing. No attacks, no heals, no buffs, nothing, and the mobs still came at me like I pissed in their mouth. As a cleric, I seem to generate threat and aggro from just existing in the game usually. And even worse, only a GF can pull the aggro off me usually. CW cant get them off with anything, poor rogues nearly kill them from full health before they switch aggro, and gods knows the GWF tries, but nothing they do has the aggro pulling capabilities that a cleric like me needs.
Either way, threat and aggro is broken in the game, clerics get way too much and their passive -20% doesnt seem to do anything, in fact seems to have the opposite effect usually. Something they will hopefully look into and soon. I love my cleric, but at level 40, I cant do dungeons and skirmishes because I always die. And then get berated for stealing aggro and dying. So I play my rogue.
That's odd.
I have been in a few groups, where the cleric was being chased like he stole something, and I have also been in a few groups,where the cleric was merely untouched.
With that far of a spectrum, I would not say it is "broke",but rather GFs need better rotation?
But, I also do not have a high level GF,so my point may be moot, but I see what I see my friend.
Depends. In the groups where the cleric is being chased there might not be a lot of tank pets out. In a group where they don't, then chances are someone or two brought the tank pets.
I've been top level tanking in MMOs for years. I've never had an issue with threat in any game. In this one it's **** near impossible. Threat is weighted too much towards damage. Healers get a 40% increase to threat on heals. GFs only have three ways of getting threat. The first is damage, which doesn't do anything since GF damage is so low. The second is the Mark system. Which would be fine but the marks go away too fast and some skills actually take the mark off. The third is one encounter ability that does a force taunt on targets for around 8 seconds. After that, they go back to hitting whatever they want to hit.
Go read the GF forums. There are tons of threads talking about the broken aggro, and how a good 50% of GF feats don't even work correctly.
Hell even high level GF streamers are running full DPS builds because that is all that works for GF right now.
Thats odd, in every dungeons I have ever been in I, as a cleric, have been ferociously and endlessly assaulted by every mob the dungeon, skirmish and boss can throw at me. I have even gone to the trouble to experiment in the pit fight skirmish, I stood at the entrance in the pit, did nothing. No attacks, no heals, no buffs, nothing, and the mobs still came at me like I pissed in their mouth. As a cleric, I seem to generate threat and aggro from just existing in the game usually. And even worse, only a GF can pull the aggro off me usually. CW cant get them off with anything, poor rogues nearly kill them from full health before they switch aggro, and gods knows the GWF tries, but nothing they do has the aggro pulling capabilities that a cleric like me needs.
Either way, threat and aggro is broken in the game, clerics get way too much and their passive -20% doesnt seem to do anything, in fact seems to have the opposite effect usually. Something they will hopefully look into and soon. I love my cleric, but at level 40, I cant do dungeons and skirmishes because I always die. And then get berated for stealing aggro and dying. So I play my rogue.
CW can down them very quickly, if they pay attention and not just face roll their aoe attacks.
sorry to hear your groups cannot handle(or even care) to protect you.
There have been plenty a time,where the cleric runs back to me for protection.
Like I said, I watch the clerics close, most the time they run around like a chicken with the head cut off, when they in fact do not really need to....should always run back to the GFs LOS, if all else fails.
"You have a wife and kids? If so, what would happen, if we called you in at 1am, everytime something went wrong!
Be respectful, remember, you PLAY the game at your convenience, they WORK at no ones."
Totally agree if a dungeon group is formed, what the hell is companions then required. I mean if such setup is formed that one class for taking aggro, one class is for healing and rest are for dps.
0
kidblitzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Thank you for presenting this excellent reasoning! I'm sure we can all agree that the arguments you put forth to support your point are very well thought out and hard to refute. Your continued feedback makes this game better every day.
LOL! This post is going right into my "quotes" notebook in Evernote.
To the OP, just no. Companions are "companions" for a reason. You don't "send off" your best friend because you are going into a dungeon, LOL. You take him with you.
If some companions are taking some heat off the healer (by spreading incoming DPS around a bit) then it is indeed making the run easier (especially on the healer who basically heals best when damage is spread around). I play a Cleric primarily, and prefer that damage be kept off one target; you see, we have no real direct "heal" spell. At best, we have aoe prevention and aoe HoT. Having aggro spread around actually helps a bit.
Sounds like a case of love-me-daddy syndrome. Sorry you can't be Mr. Super Hero Tanky McDamageSoak. Time to grow up and think about the team more than yourself.
OK, I will say that i for one have noticed it makes an encounter much more hectic with pets out running around, pulling mobs etc... of course I am no expert, IMO, I don't care either way, in/out but mayeb a little discussion before running straight into the fray would be good.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
I can fully understand the desire of tanks to not want people running tanking pets.
I can not understand why anyone would want me or anyone else to drop a Healer pet.
If I'm playing a Tank, I expect to be Mr Tanky McDamageSoaker -- just as now, playing a Rogue, I expect to be Mr Stabby McDamageDealer. If I can't be McDamageSoaker as a tank ... I'm not sure why I'd want to play a tank at all.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
I can fully understand the desire of tanks to not want people running tanking pets.
I can not understand why anyone would want me or anyone else to drop a Healer pet.
If I'm playing a Tank, I expect to be Mr Tanky McDamageSoaker -- just as now, playing a Rogue, I expect to be Mr Stabby McDamageDealer. If I can't be McDamageSoaker as a tank ... I'm not sure why I'd want to play a tank at all.
If this were ever to happen, it would need to be coupled with a mass overhaul to clerics as well, changing them from what they are now, to WoW style trinity healers. GD's would also need to have their damage output dropped, or they would wreck pvp. Clerics in PVP would also be broken, so they would need to have their damage basically removed. This road leads to WoW clone. Not interested.
Personally, if I wanted to play a trinity style healer with giant single target heals, I would go play a game that has them already (like WoW, Rift, etc.)
This is an Action RPG style of play--healing is secondary and thus "tanking" is just simply heightened durability. If you do not enjoy that style, then you are playing the wrong game.
This is an Action RPG style of play--healing is secondary and thus "tanking" is just simply heightened durability. If you do not enjoy that style, then you are playing the wrong game.
Actually, I chose not to play a Tank, specifically because tanking is just heightened durability. Also, I don't worry as much about aggro, because the mobs don't seem to worry about me when there's a Cleric around. I just think there's something wrong with a Guardian Fighter who isn't really much of a Guardian; perhaps the class name should be changed to something more appropriate.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
No, thank you. I'll keep my companions. The problem is not that folks have companions, it's that they brought out the wrong one. My running mate is a cleric that solos with a tank companion. I hate when he forgets and has him out when running with me. (Guardian) A simple word and he is gone and a wolf or wizard takes his place and is a very welcome companion. I believe your real problem is with unthinking or uninformed players, not companions. Just talk to your group and I think you will have a much better time. Good luck and "Have fun storming the castle"!
Comments
As a CW, I tend to watch the cleric closely, and keep them adds of his ***.
Be respectful, remember, you PLAY the game at your convenience, they WORK at no ones."
I either use my dog for extra DPs and that knockdown or my CW pet to help with crowd control in bigger fights. Depends on the team setup.
I got a tank, me the cleric, two rogue and a CW, I use puppy.
I got a tank, me the cleric, two CW and a rogue, I use my mage.
I solo anything, I get a tank.
I WOULD use augment companions, but I is poor, so I have to save for a cat.
I party with Shadow, I use a tank, just to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> him off.
Go play a GF. There is not what and when. Threat is broken right now. Couple that with the tank companion who seems to have a never ending taunt, and it becomes a pain in the *** to tank anything in this game. Not to mention that all GF aoe threat is based off the mark and every **** unloads all their AOE as soon as the mobs spawn.
That's odd.
I have been in a few groups, where the cleric was being chased like he stole something, and I have also been in a few groups,where the cleric was merely untouched.
With that far of a spectrum, I would not say it is "broke",but rather GFs need better rotation?
But, I also do not have a high level GF,so my point may be moot, but I see what I see my friend.
Be respectful, remember, you PLAY the game at your convenience, they WORK at no ones."
Thats odd, in every dungeons I have ever been in I, as a cleric, have been ferociously and endlessly assaulted by every mob the dungeon, skirmish and boss can throw at me. I have even gone to the trouble to experiment in the pit fight skirmish, I stood at the entrance in the pit, did nothing. No attacks, no heals, no buffs, nothing, and the mobs still came at me like I pissed in their mouth. As a cleric, I seem to generate threat and aggro from just existing in the game usually. And even worse, only a GF can pull the aggro off me usually. CW cant get them off with anything, poor rogues nearly kill them from full health before they switch aggro, and gods knows the GWF tries, but nothing they do has the aggro pulling capabilities that a cleric like me needs.
Either way, threat and aggro is broken in the game, clerics get way too much and their passive -20% doesnt seem to do anything, in fact seems to have the opposite effect usually. Something they will hopefully look into and soon. I love my cleric, but at level 40, I cant do dungeons and skirmishes because I always die. And then get berated for stealing aggro and dying. So I play my rogue.
Depends. In the groups where the cleric is being chased there might not be a lot of tank pets out. In a group where they don't, then chances are someone or two brought the tank pets.
I've been top level tanking in MMOs for years. I've never had an issue with threat in any game. In this one it's **** near impossible. Threat is weighted too much towards damage. Healers get a 40% increase to threat on heals. GFs only have three ways of getting threat. The first is damage, which doesn't do anything since GF damage is so low. The second is the Mark system. Which would be fine but the marks go away too fast and some skills actually take the mark off. The third is one encounter ability that does a force taunt on targets for around 8 seconds. After that, they go back to hitting whatever they want to hit.
Go read the GF forums. There are tons of threads talking about the broken aggro, and how a good 50% of GF feats don't even work correctly.
Hell even high level GF streamers are running full DPS builds because that is all that works for GF right now.
CW can down them very quickly, if they pay attention and not just face roll their aoe attacks.
sorry to hear your groups cannot handle(or even care) to protect you.
There have been plenty a time,where the cleric runs back to me for protection.
Like I said, I watch the clerics close, most the time they run around like a chicken with the head cut off, when they in fact do not really need to....should always run back to the GFs LOS, if all else fails.
Be respectful, remember, you PLAY the game at your convenience, they WORK at no ones."
love my extra 1500 power from ioun stone and 1750 recovery from cat, but that's just how i outfitted MINE
LOL! This post is going right into my "quotes" notebook in Evernote.
Free PC Games! (legally)
The party either succeeds or fails AS A TEAM.
If some companions are taking some heat off the healer (by spreading incoming DPS around a bit) then it is indeed making the run easier (especially on the healer who basically heals best when damage is spread around). I play a Cleric primarily, and prefer that damage be kept off one target; you see, we have no real direct "heal" spell. At best, we have aoe prevention and aoe HoT. Having aggro spread around actually helps a bit.
Sounds like a case of love-me-daddy syndrome. Sorry you can't be Mr. Super Hero Tanky McDamageSoak. Time to grow up and think about the team more than yourself.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
I can fully understand the desire of tanks to not want people running tanking pets.
I can not understand why anyone would want me or anyone else to drop a Healer pet.
If I'm playing a Tank, I expect to be Mr Tanky McDamageSoaker -- just as now, playing a Rogue, I expect to be Mr Stabby McDamageDealer. If I can't be McDamageSoaker as a tank ... I'm not sure why I'd want to play a tank at all.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
If this were ever to happen, it would need to be coupled with a mass overhaul to clerics as well, changing them from what they are now, to WoW style trinity healers. GD's would also need to have their damage output dropped, or they would wreck pvp. Clerics in PVP would also be broken, so they would need to have their damage basically removed. This road leads to WoW clone. Not interested.
Personally, if I wanted to play a trinity style healer with giant single target heals, I would go play a game that has them already (like WoW, Rift, etc.)
This is an Action RPG style of play--healing is secondary and thus "tanking" is just simply heightened durability. If you do not enjoy that style, then you are playing the wrong game.
Actually, I chose not to play a Tank, specifically because tanking is just heightened durability. Also, I don't worry as much about aggro, because the mobs don't seem to worry about me when there's a Cleric around. I just think there's something wrong with a Guardian Fighter who isn't really much of a Guardian; perhaps the class name should be changed to something more appropriate.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
Just sayin',
You shouldn't be usin' no double negatives!