tryed lifestealing.. did'nt work.. did'nt like it, going back to standar: power, penetration, crit..
at least that way you can burst some low geared dude and feel good about your crapy class
you could write a whole book about tips and facts, but the only fact that remains is: same gear, no mater the spec, the class is lackluster compared to any other in any role..
With all that life steal you have slotted, what percentage of damage is turned into healing? If it's less than 5%, which I wager it is, it simply isn't worth it.
Well, as I stated in the OP, the predominant stat accompanying Life Steal is Penetration. So, at low levels, you're increasing survival and DPS equally with very little sacrifice. I think at 35 I had about 8% Life Steal (which translates to 8% pen for a total of %18 mitigation resistance) and about 16% crit? 31% with full stacks of WM.
The beauty of Life Steal is that it's a defensive stat that FEEDS on your offensive stats. There's very little sacrifice to be made here. The more damage you do the longer you live. Penetration and power are mathematically interchangeable. People don't like pen simply because they don't see a tooltip increase so they think it's garbage. That's as far from the truth as you can get.
The only time you lose out with Pen vs Power is when you're dealing with very low HP/Resistance trash mobs, like Imps, but really... who cares about that? They die in two hits regardless.
To put my leveling experience in perspective, I died--quite literally--a total of three (3) times in the span of levels 1-34. I had sooo many pots sitting in my bags that I permanently stowed my Cleric so I could level my cat from 1-15 and feed off pots when needed and still had stacks to spare. I was out damaged by another GWF maybe twice in that time span and never out healed or out soaked by anything short of a geared Tank GF. All this in only greens (since blue Life Steal items are so rare).
...you can burst some low geared dude and feel good about your crapy class.
Life Steal is not nor should it ever be used for PvP. PvP = Burst. Which, as stated in the OP, isn't really possible until late game when you are afforded the gear, and skills, to itemize that way.
Absolutely brilliant post! One of the most enjoyable I've read so far, I just love your humor. Not only that, but the advice you offer is priceless. Well done you!
If possible, I'd really love you to write a companion piece to this post, with recommended race, stats, feats and so on. Because I really think this post needs to be added to the class builds sticky.
The only companion I would recommend is a buff companion like the Cat (which I have) or Ioun Stones. So you can use the equipment they wear to buff your own stats.
With my Cat out (at Rank 15 when I was level 35) I had a Life Steal of almost 10%, Crit of 26% (41% with WM) a small buff to Recovery and a total Penetration of 20%. The only time I would take my Cleric out of storage is during boss fights. I imagine that will eventually go away once I get my Cat to Rank Cap (25) and get better gear in him.
If you were to min/max it I would assume the Might Ioun Stone would be the way to go but I just didn't like the idea of a rock floating around my dwarfs head. Yes, I rolled a dorf. I'm cool like that.
8-10% sounds doable if you're consistently hitting multiple groups with big crits. Seems like your DPS stats are going to suffer a little, but it's probably just a play style choice. Personally I prefer stacking defense and getting 20% of that defense as power, but I count on potions, a cleric henchman, and a cleric on my team to provide healing. Especially in dungeons, since those seem to have a lot more incoming damage than open world questing.
Aren't the stone and cat cash shop pets, by the way? I've heard that some of the pets buff life steal, I'd be more curious what your life steal is at without being affected by your real world money supply.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I'm trying this set up out. So far I'm level 24 and while my damage has been reduced i have been staying alive alot more. It reminds me a little bit of a farm build in CoH (outside dungeons anyway. Killing one mob takes forever but at the same time i can survive killing 10 mobs at in the same time span. So for me its working out well. I run around like a crazy person gathering up every mob i see and then spend a couple minutes obliterating them.
However i have been debating if i want to keep my cleric out or maybe try the cash shop cleric. She buffs based on life steal and does some kind of bubble skill. But i have no idea if she would be worth the 2k zen to buy.
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archee5Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
8-10% sounds doable if you're consistently hitting multiple groups with big crits. Seems like your DPS stats are going to suffer a little, but it's probably just a play style choice. Personally I prefer stacking defense and getting 20% of that defense as power, but I count on potions, a cleric henchman, and a cleric on my team to provide healing. Especially in dungeons, since those seem to have a lot more incoming damage than open world questing.
Aren't the stone and cat cash shop pets, by the way? I've heard that some of the pets buff life steal, I'd be more curious what your life steal is at without being affected by your real world money supply.
Cat is diamond shop, but REALLY expensive. At current exchange rates, most cash shop pets are actually cheaper.
I'm trying this set up out. So far I'm level 24 and while my damage has been reduced i have been staying alive alot more. It reminds me a little bit of a farm build in CoH (outside dungeons anyway. Killing one mob takes forever but at the same time i can survive killing 10 mobs at in the same time span. So for me its working out well. I run around like a crazy person gathering up every mob i see and then spend a couple minutes obliterating them.
However i have been debating if i want to keep my cleric out or maybe try the cash shop cleric. She buffs based on life steal and does some kind of bubble skill. But i have no idea if she would be worth the 2k zen to buy.
If you do, lemme know how the buff works, I'd be loathe to drop the insane amount of stats the "buff pets" provide unless the life steal buff was worth it.
"You aren't a TR. You aren't a GF. You're the guy that's in between. You're the mop up crew. The only time you should ever feel inadequate is if, at the end of a dungeon, you've been out damaged AND out killed AND out survived. That TR might have you trumped on raw damage but that's because that's his job. He's supposed to pump out copious amounts of damage on bosses and elite mobs.
You're the guy that's supposed to wipe up all the adds and keep the rest of your party safe."
Except of course if the TR does similar or even near-similar damage then he's better at keeping the party safe.
Would you rather have 10 mobs at 50% life hitting the party (usually cleric currently) or 5 dead mobs with only 5 living mobs hitting the party?
AOE is a horrible way to apply damage, the only reason to choose it over single-target damage is if you can a) do more damage to multiple targets than you could otherwise or b) gain aggro on multiple targets. Currently neither of the two is possible and therefore the GWF is not attractive to a group based on the class' merits alone.
"You aren't a TR. You aren't a GF. You're the guy that's in between. You're the mop up crew. The only time you should ever feel inadequate is if, at the end of a dungeon, you've been out damaged AND out killed AND out survived. That TR might have you trumped on raw damage but that's because that's his job. He's supposed to pump out copious amounts of damage on bosses and elite mobs.
You're the guy that's supposed to wipe up all the adds and keep the rest of your party safe."
Except of course if the TR does similar or even near-similar damage then he's better at keeping the party safe.
Would you rather have 10 mobs at 50% life hitting the party (usually cleric currently) or 5 dead mobs with only 5 living mobs hitting the party?
AOE is a horrible way to apply damage, the only reason to choose it over single-target damage is if you can a) do more damage to multiple targets than you could otherwise or b) gain aggro on multiple targets. Currently neither of the two is possible and therefore the GWF is not attractive to a group based on the class' merits alone.
I understand your nerd rage. Believe me, I do. This is, however, a LEVELING thread. Your complaints are restricted to end game. Remember that.
I love this post, and it's what I've been learning in my own GWF levelling. I may have to try life steal and AP myself. I have been using the mage, just to see how he works, and while he doesn't heal, his AOE is pretty good. Of course, the cleric is always a solid companion.
I thought I was the only clever person to think about life steal... **** you!
Nice post, I had dropped GWF because I heard people were getting instakicked from groups, but it's the class I like play the most, I like the flow. I think I'll just keep playing it...
I enjoy my GWF, I feel manly, being the fattest halforc I can, with sweet red dreads, running around in peasant's pants roaring at things. I feel like a stone-cold boss. Sometimes I play other classes and it's like "man, this is so much easier than levelling a GWF". But I do want to like the class a whole bunch.
Solid advice that can help make being a GWF less painful.
I would add to it:
--Companions: Companions are not bound until use. If you have an Alt who can buy you a companion, do it. Mail the cleric to yourself before making your GWF. This will allow you to have a cleric the second you finish the tutorial. EXTREMELY valuable. If you don't have an alt, check the AH the second you get some diamonds on your GWF. People throw companions up there all the time. If you start getting diamonds at 10, you might be able to afford a cleric pretty quickly (haven't checked prices yet) which is still 6 levels earlier than the game gives them to you.
More Niche: Buff potions have no level req for use, at least the ones I've found don't. If you have another toon, mail yourself the potions. 30 minutes of +180 power/defense/crit/recovery is MASSIVE at level 4.
I thought I was the only clever person to think about life steal... **** you!
Nice post, I had dropped GWF because I heard people were getting instakicked from groups, but it's the class I like play the most, I like the flow. I think I'll just keep playing it...
I switched to Regen and it's soooo amazing. It was hard to kill me before now it's nigh impossible. Bear in mind I run Sentinel stacking ArP + Regen and full crit on my Cat.
In PvP, I kid you not, it takes 3+ people to kill me. It bears mentioning I own no PvP pots. I in turn can kill people provided the other team isn't stacking clerics & CWs. Those matches are just an excercise in futility.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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mindstaticMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Having picked an half-orc and being new to the game, what stat should I favor after str? I put my first point into const, did I do it wrong?
I want to follow your tips but I don't really know if I should go all the way with dex, go all the way with const, or even go half both.
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drillisenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Wonder why I'm just now seeing this. My GWF is currently 34 but it's definately starting to get better.
I just love how similar my mindset is with yours however, given the nature of aoe damage and life steal and the fact that GWF will be beefy enough with mitigation I figured it would be stupidly efficient and I'm glad to hear it works well.
I also rolled halfling, not only to be different (and funny being small with a big sword), but for the CON/DEX as those I'm focusing because they look extremely efficient for hybridization.
Deflect/Crit and huge amounts of Penetration and %HP just seems incredibly efficient.
Hell and with how little deflect rating actually gives, getting 15% from Bravery is insane, and I even wanted to go Sentinel for the other 15% on Weapon Master. And really was hoping the last feat would be 50% of the dmg dealt (wishful thinking) rather than 50% of the healing portion.
Only thing that scares me is just how insane defense/mitigation debuffs are and how much that would completely devalue defense in pvp. =/
I'm still not really sure just how effective ArmPen really is though, atleast in PvE. PvP sure maybe. But with Student of the Sword and other debuffs how does it all work together exactly? I still find it difficult just how they all work. I've noticed SotS already bringing things into negative mitigation.... so I'm guessing everything is just a flat reduction then?
My stats rolled were 16/16/12 then triple 10s. I went Str/Con & my ending stats are 24 Str/20 Con/18 Dex. Trying for a balanced approach with an emphasis on Str. It has worked out extraordinarily well.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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mindstaticMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Yeah, I started with 20/13/15 and I have 21/13/16 atm.
Where should I put my new points? STR + CON so it goes 22/14/16?
Thanks, I'll wait for your answer before spending them.
After testing last night, thanks in part to your questions, I found that Con is 100% useless unless you want the HP gain. The Resistance Ignored portion of Con is either broken or not working as intended. Do not put points into Con unless you're shooting for more HP.
it really should way the class works functionally is far closer to a fury style of warrior. Using twin swords, high attack speeds, and an ability to increase over all attack speed. For me it feels functionally like it should have two swords and not one big sword.
You do know the two-weapon ranger is coming out at some point they are most likely saving that style for the ranger class.
I actually love Restoring strike ... it's our "oh ****z i need some healz" skill. It does require a decent amount of life steal to use. Reaping strike ... i really want to love this... I wish it auto-executes when the bar is full .. that's all I'm asking. I kinda prefer Cresendo over Avalanche.
I prefer Savage to both but this is, again, a leveling "guide". Note the quotes. If you're sporting r3 crescendo you're past the point whence this guide has any meaningful application because by then you should have enough of a handle to know what you're doing and what choices to make for your personal play style.
Comments
at least that way you can burst some low geared dude and feel good about your crapy class
you could write a whole book about tips and facts, but the only fact that remains is: same gear, no mater the spec, the class is lackluster compared to any other in any role..
Well, as I stated in the OP, the predominant stat accompanying Life Steal is Penetration. So, at low levels, you're increasing survival and DPS equally with very little sacrifice. I think at 35 I had about 8% Life Steal (which translates to 8% pen for a total of %18 mitigation resistance) and about 16% crit? 31% with full stacks of WM.
The beauty of Life Steal is that it's a defensive stat that FEEDS on your offensive stats. There's very little sacrifice to be made here. The more damage you do the longer you live. Penetration and power are mathematically interchangeable. People don't like pen simply because they don't see a tooltip increase so they think it's garbage. That's as far from the truth as you can get.
The only time you lose out with Pen vs Power is when you're dealing with very low HP/Resistance trash mobs, like Imps, but really... who cares about that? They die in two hits regardless.
To put my leveling experience in perspective, I died--quite literally--a total of three (3) times in the span of levels 1-34. I had sooo many pots sitting in my bags that I permanently stowed my Cleric so I could level my cat from 1-15 and feed off pots when needed and still had stacks to spare. I was out damaged by another GWF maybe twice in that time span and never out healed or out soaked by anything short of a geared Tank GF. All this in only greens (since blue Life Steal items are so rare).
Life Steal is not nor should it ever be used for PvP. PvP = Burst. Which, as stated in the OP, isn't really possible until late game when you are afforded the gear, and skills, to itemize that way.
The only companion I would recommend is a buff companion like the Cat (which I have) or Ioun Stones. So you can use the equipment they wear to buff your own stats.
With my Cat out (at Rank 15 when I was level 35) I had a Life Steal of almost 10%, Crit of 26% (41% with WM) a small buff to Recovery and a total Penetration of 20%. The only time I would take my Cleric out of storage is during boss fights. I imagine that will eventually go away once I get my Cat to Rank Cap (25) and get better gear in him.
If you were to min/max it I would assume the Might Ioun Stone would be the way to go but I just didn't like the idea of a rock floating around my dwarfs head. Yes, I rolled a dorf. I'm cool like that.
Aren't the stone and cat cash shop pets, by the way? I've heard that some of the pets buff life steal, I'd be more curious what your life steal is at without being affected by your real world money supply.
However i have been debating if i want to keep my cleric out or maybe try the cash shop cleric. She buffs based on life steal and does some kind of bubble skill. But i have no idea if she would be worth the 2k zen to buy.
Cat is diamond shop, but REALLY expensive. At current exchange rates, most cash shop pets are actually cheaper.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
If you do, lemme know how the buff works, I'd be loathe to drop the insane amount of stats the "buff pets" provide unless the life steal buff was worth it.
Love you sence of humor, Write On - thanks
You're the guy that's supposed to wipe up all the adds and keep the rest of your party safe."
Except of course if the TR does similar or even near-similar damage then he's better at keeping the party safe.
Would you rather have 10 mobs at 50% life hitting the party (usually cleric currently) or 5 dead mobs with only 5 living mobs hitting the party?
AOE is a horrible way to apply damage, the only reason to choose it over single-target damage is if you can a) do more damage to multiple targets than you could otherwise or b) gain aggro on multiple targets. Currently neither of the two is possible and therefore the GWF is not attractive to a group based on the class' merits alone.
I understand your nerd rage. Believe me, I do. This is, however, a LEVELING thread. Your complaints are restricted to end game. Remember that.
Cleric 10chars
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
Nice post, I had dropped GWF because I heard people were getting instakicked from groups, but it's the class I like play the most, I like the flow. I think I'll just keep playing it...
Solid advice that can help make being a GWF less painful.
I would add to it:
--Companions: Companions are not bound until use. If you have an Alt who can buy you a companion, do it. Mail the cleric to yourself before making your GWF. This will allow you to have a cleric the second you finish the tutorial. EXTREMELY valuable. If you don't have an alt, check the AH the second you get some diamonds on your GWF. People throw companions up there all the time. If you start getting diamonds at 10, you might be able to afford a cleric pretty quickly (haven't checked prices yet) which is still 6 levels earlier than the game gives them to you.
More Niche: Buff potions have no level req for use, at least the ones I've found don't. If you have another toon, mail yourself the potions. 30 minutes of +180 power/defense/crit/recovery is MASSIVE at level 4.
I switched to Regen and it's soooo amazing. It was hard to kill me before now it's nigh impossible. Bear in mind I run Sentinel stacking ArP + Regen and full crit on my Cat.
In PvP, I kid you not, it takes 3+ people to kill me. It bears mentioning I own no PvP pots. I in turn can kill people provided the other team isn't stacking clerics & CWs. Those matches are just an excercise in futility.
I want to follow your tips but I don't really know if I should go all the way with dex, go all the way with const, or even go half both.
We may make the love, now.
I just love how similar my mindset is with yours however, given the nature of aoe damage and life steal and the fact that GWF will be beefy enough with mitigation I figured it would be stupidly efficient and I'm glad to hear it works well.
I also rolled halfling, not only to be different (and funny being small with a big sword), but for the CON/DEX as those I'm focusing because they look extremely efficient for hybridization.
Deflect/Crit and huge amounts of Penetration and %HP just seems incredibly efficient.
Hell and with how little deflect rating actually gives, getting 15% from Bravery is insane, and I even wanted to go Sentinel for the other 15% on Weapon Master. And really was hoping the last feat would be 50% of the dmg dealt (wishful thinking) rather than 50% of the healing portion.
Only thing that scares me is just how insane defense/mitigation debuffs are and how much that would completely devalue defense in pvp. =/
I'm still not really sure just how effective ArmPen really is though, atleast in PvE. PvP sure maybe. But with Student of the Sword and other debuffs how does it all work together exactly? I still find it difficult just how they all work. I've noticed SotS already bringing things into negative mitigation.... so I'm guessing everything is just a flat reduction then?
Where should I put my new points? STR + CON so it goes 22/14/16?
Thanks, I'll wait for your answer before spending them.
After testing last night, thanks in part to your questions, I found that Con is 100% useless unless you want the HP gain. The Resistance Ignored portion of Con is either broken or not working as intended. Do not put points into Con unless you're shooting for more HP.
I don't think your class has been put in the game yet. I bet it will at some point in the future.
You do know the two-weapon ranger is coming out at some point they are most likely saving that style for the ranger class.
I prefer Savage to both but this is, again, a leveling "guide". Note the quotes. If you're sporting r3 crescendo you're past the point whence this guide has any meaningful application because by then you should have enough of a handle to know what you're doing and what choices to make for your personal play style.
But yeah, I don't even slot Avalanche anymore.