Im gonna start t2 epics pretty soon(im actually waiting for my friends to gear up t1) so ill let you guys know how it goes. As of right now I usually place 1st in damage taken by a fare amount and usually place third in damage. Most run go with no falls although I have a bad habit of falling off edges(most of my powers are lunges or aoe).
The problem is not as much the GFs as it is the Cleric and his blue circle of awesomeness which stacks. Clerics heal all too well and that needs to be nerfed!
Another thing people need to realize that the adds on boss fights tend to be more dangerous to the group than the bosses. If your group as a whole ignore addds and go for the boss it will bring in more of them before the other ones are beat then your group will get overwhelmed.
Another thing people need to realize that the adds on boss fights tend to be more dangerous to the group than the bosses. If your group as a whole ignore addds and go for the boss it will bring in more of them before the other ones are beat then your group will get overwhelmed.
There's a lot of things people need to realize.
For one the dual/triple cleric thing isn't going anywhere till a patch and like the Foundry people are going to exploit the ever living hell out of it while it lasts.
For two more Guardians need to stop speccing into defensive traits and get with the program and work towards a more offensive mind set when it comes to epics. It's really sad when I hear things multiple times that I'm the first Guardian people have seen able to hold and take threat in countless runs. I mean really sad.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
GF is in a bad spot right now. It is fine in pvp, and a monster solo..In groups looking for a standard mmo grouping dynamic, GF is flame bait..I have no issue playing as cryptic intended the game to work, but the public out there have been largely abusive to the GF's trying to do this.
I am all for dethroning the MMO trinity as far a group dynamic goes..We have to do it in a manner that will not send every GF running for a CW for fear of the insulting hordes of dps.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Geebus... how long will it take for people to realize most players playing GF are PLAYING IT WRONG!?!?
From time to time I see GFs COMPLETELY DESTROYING AND BRAKING THE GAME OF HOW OP THEY ARE. In PVP and PVE.
I mean, I'm a CW so I couldn't care less of what you think or not of another class, but D&D 4e Defenders, the good ones, need to PUNISH their fools when such fools ignore the defender.
Guess what a good GF does: PUNISH THEIR FOOLS.
A Good GF won't expect to hit 1 button and all mobs will glue to him to the reminder of the encounter. He should be killing adds, which if specced and Powered correctly can do VERY efficiently, while also withstanding the majority of damage since he's normally tougher.
STOP being STUPID keeping yourself under your shield bubble being slow, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and useless in dungeons.
STOP not killing stuff thinking you're only there to be a sponge.
STOP being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and not realizing this is D&D 4e reflection and thus NOT the same of current MMOs trend for tanks.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Geebus... how long will it take for people to realize most players playing GF are PLAYING IT WRONG!?!?
From time to time I see GFs COMPLETELY DESTROYING AND BRAKING THE GAME OF HOW OP THEY ARE. In PVP and PVE.
I mean, I'm a CW so I couldn't care less of what you think or not of another class, but D&D 4e Defenders, the good ones, need to PUNISH their fools when such fools ignore the defender.
Guess what a good GF does: PUNISH THEIR FOOLS.
A Good GF won't expect to hit 1 button and all mobs will glue to him to the reminder of the encounter. He should be killing adds, which if specced and Powered correctly can do VERY efficiently, while also withstanding the majority of damage since he's normally tougher.
STOP being STUPID keeping yourself under your shield bubble being slow, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and useless in dungeons.
STOP not killing stuff thinking you're only there to be a sponge.
STOP being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and not realizing this is D&D 4e reflection and thus NOT the same of current MMOs trend for tanks.
I agree , except I think you have this in reverse..I believe most GF's I know understand that it is different in this game..However the community wants tanks that can push 1 button and glue a pack of mobs to us..It ends up being the GF's out there taking the abuse and insulting comments, and honestly we are the gamers out there trying to do it for everyone's benefit ..Tank players want to help, and want to be good team players..The by definition are not glory hogs ,we need to find a balance in the system that allows us to play as intended while not being abused by a community that expects a completely different game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
1. There's a huge number of bad GF's out there who have no idea how to hold threat. Ignore the presumptions of what you think a tank should be, these people have no clue how to hold threat outside of the taunt duration.
2. Many people do dungeons with these GF's up to around T1's and they more or less seem worthless unable to hold threat and unable to do damage. They get many hours of experiences with bad GFs who setup the expectation that GFs are a wasted slot.
3. Many boss encounters are designed with AOEs in mind which any class can dodge AOEs. There are very few bosses that actually sit there and just wail on a target melee style. This means you don't really need a GF to take hits.
4. Anything not a boss encounter can be CC'd into the ground through chain CC. A good CW can rotate enough CC to permanently control 1 target and almost enough to do multiples (closer to 50% CC up time on multiple adds if melee).
5. Two Clerics can drop two shields and be ridiculously OP currently. That second priest is going to eat someone's slot. Since a TR and CW will on average have much higher DPS than a GWF or GF this comes down to GWF or GF and your average GF player isn't good enough, geared enough or speced right to beat out your average GWF (Note: There's always going to be exceptions to these generalizations. I've seen 1-2 outstanding players in each class that will transcend the averages)
6. GF mechanics are largely counter-intuitive and bad. First is Guard. Instead of getting a dodge, we get an absorb shield. The problem is later in epic dungeons a single boss move will drain that absorb shield to nothing in 1 move and we have virtually no way to quickly regain it. Given the amount of moves bosses do, you will never be able to block all of them and you end up having to manually dodge these by running out of them. This can be problematic to say the least and really governs our play style more than anything. Second is Mark. Mark wearing off on getting hit is pants on head <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with how fast mobs attack and how slow animations are. Often times only way I can keep Mark on a target is if it's doing AOE attacks I can avoid or if I've temporarily lost aggro and it's no longer attacking me. Mark needs to be a flat duration buff that's refreshed when using Aggravated Strike.
With all that, it's really easy to see why GF's are in the situation they are in. While certainly exceptional GFs can be found time to time it just isn't a common occurrence with so many things slighted against us.
I like the one post .. comparable single target to a rogue ROFLMAO .. what a load of BS. In fact, his entire post was pretty much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Anyways, I do agree with the opening poster and not so much the others. I have encountered numerous people who simply say GF's are not needed. You could be the best GF in the world, and they would rather have something else. The fact that these people run the dungs successfully WITH this philosophy is a cause for concern.
Comments
All at the same time?
This is either the most horribly broken and imbalanced class in the history of MMOs or people are padding their numbers/flat-out exaggerating.
To be fair most level 0 AD&D commoners could out-AOE the currently implemented version of GWFs.........
There's a lot of things people need to realize.
For one the dual/triple cleric thing isn't going anywhere till a patch and like the Foundry people are going to exploit the ever living hell out of it while it lasts.
For two more Guardians need to stop speccing into defensive traits and get with the program and work towards a more offensive mind set when it comes to epics. It's really sad when I hear things multiple times that I'm the first Guardian people have seen able to hold and take threat in countless runs. I mean really sad.
I am all for dethroning the MMO trinity as far a group dynamic goes..We have to do it in a manner that will not send every GF running for a CW for fear of the insulting hordes of dps.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
From time to time I see GFs COMPLETELY DESTROYING AND BRAKING THE GAME OF HOW OP THEY ARE. In PVP and PVE.
I mean, I'm a CW so I couldn't care less of what you think or not of another class, but D&D 4e Defenders, the good ones, need to PUNISH their fools when such fools ignore the defender.
Guess what a good GF does: PUNISH THEIR FOOLS.
A Good GF won't expect to hit 1 button and all mobs will glue to him to the reminder of the encounter. He should be killing adds, which if specced and Powered correctly can do VERY efficiently, while also withstanding the majority of damage since he's normally tougher.
STOP being STUPID keeping yourself under your shield bubble being slow, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and useless in dungeons.
STOP not killing stuff thinking you're only there to be a sponge.
STOP being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and not realizing this is D&D 4e reflection and thus NOT the same of current MMOs trend for tanks.
I agree , except I think you have this in reverse..I believe most GF's I know understand that it is different in this game..However the community wants tanks that can push 1 button and glue a pack of mobs to us..It ends up being the GF's out there taking the abuse and insulting comments, and honestly we are the gamers out there trying to do it for everyone's benefit ..Tank players want to help, and want to be good team players..The by definition are not glory hogs ,we need to find a balance in the system that allows us to play as intended while not being abused by a community that expects a completely different game.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
1. There's a huge number of bad GF's out there who have no idea how to hold threat. Ignore the presumptions of what you think a tank should be, these people have no clue how to hold threat outside of the taunt duration.
2. Many people do dungeons with these GF's up to around T1's and they more or less seem worthless unable to hold threat and unable to do damage. They get many hours of experiences with bad GFs who setup the expectation that GFs are a wasted slot.
3. Many boss encounters are designed with AOEs in mind which any class can dodge AOEs. There are very few bosses that actually sit there and just wail on a target melee style. This means you don't really need a GF to take hits.
4. Anything not a boss encounter can be CC'd into the ground through chain CC. A good CW can rotate enough CC to permanently control 1 target and almost enough to do multiples (closer to 50% CC up time on multiple adds if melee).
5. Two Clerics can drop two shields and be ridiculously OP currently. That second priest is going to eat someone's slot. Since a TR and CW will on average have much higher DPS than a GWF or GF this comes down to GWF or GF and your average GF player isn't good enough, geared enough or speced right to beat out your average GWF (Note: There's always going to be exceptions to these generalizations. I've seen 1-2 outstanding players in each class that will transcend the averages)
6. GF mechanics are largely counter-intuitive and bad. First is Guard. Instead of getting a dodge, we get an absorb shield. The problem is later in epic dungeons a single boss move will drain that absorb shield to nothing in 1 move and we have virtually no way to quickly regain it. Given the amount of moves bosses do, you will never be able to block all of them and you end up having to manually dodge these by running out of them. This can be problematic to say the least and really governs our play style more than anything. Second is Mark. Mark wearing off on getting hit is pants on head <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with how fast mobs attack and how slow animations are. Often times only way I can keep Mark on a target is if it's doing AOE attacks I can avoid or if I've temporarily lost aggro and it's no longer attacking me. Mark needs to be a flat duration buff that's refreshed when using Aggravated Strike.
With all that, it's really easy to see why GF's are in the situation they are in. While certainly exceptional GFs can be found time to time it just isn't a common occurrence with so many things slighted against us.
Anyways, I do agree with the opening poster and not so much the others. I have encountered numerous people who simply say GF's are not needed. You could be the best GF in the world, and they would rather have something else. The fact that these people run the dungs successfully WITH this philosophy is a cause for concern.