What is this cult like mentality that forces people to defend Cryptic and make fun of a guy who spent 200 dollars on the game for not being happy with his purchase. If he doesn't have a right to complain than who does? Answer me that defenders of the Zen Realm.
edit: I spent 10 dollars on Zen for a respec and that much I begrudgingly accepted as money wasted on mostly vapid product.
Heh no not defending Cryptic on this just of the opinion that the OP was less than wise. Way less than wise and then they came and complained about being less than wise in a public forum. No sympathy for that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
No I don't get what you mean at all. 200 dollars is an extravagant number to attach to any game in our retail market. You could probably buy every single AAA title that has come out in the last 6 months for that much money. So Cryptic has an obligation to give something that's not buggy/broken/exploitable to a gamer for that kind of money. I don't give a flying <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you wipe your butt with hundos have some self respect as a gamer and realize no legit publisher would get away with that in the retail world.
HE got EXACTLY what he paid for and what was promised. The fact that he assumed things about what it would give him is his own fault. If I am going to spend 200 dollars I'm going to do research. Hell I'm going to research spending 60 dollars on a console or PC game before I buy it.
So there is zero sympathy when someone made assumptions about a $200 purchase with zero research on it and then publicly whines that it wasn't what he assumed it was.
I bought the $200 pack because i want D&D stuff to be popular.
Put it this way - I went to see the D&D movies.
Ok?
I went in F2P and checked the game out before I purchased. I tried to get an idea of the value of the bigillion currencies. I could see the price of all of the individual items -vs- the $200 pack and tell it was a little ify as a value.
But I figured I'd get in on the ground floor and hope this turns out to be a great game.
I'm not unhappy with my purchase and don't feel duped.
I do however think the devs should fix some of the store purchase items to work better and cut the prices for some of the stuff to about half of what they are now.
I commented on the part of your post that I had issue with, and have subsequently commented on the remainder of it. Of course, you were so intent on defending the BBB that you went off on a tangent with it. I have no control over what you decide is an important issue, but you evidently felt it was important enough to start looking up info on them, and then attacking with strawman and definitions thereof. Responding to those doesn't make me anally retentive, although presenting them while claiming it wasn't important really does come across that way. Check it out, I'm a Guardian. That means that I bought the cheaper pack, but I didn't change to Guardian until today. What do you suppose that means? It means that I made an informed decision. I have been getting emails from PWE to buy the Founder's Packs for months, since I have had an account with them, largely inactive, for years. Since I couldn't make an informed decision sight unseen, I made the logical decision, and waited. I then weighed what's in what, and decided that I could see myself buying this pack w/out regret.
You've mentioned little more than "BBB this" and "BBB that" since you started. Even when I alluded that you were blowing a tiny portion of the post out of proportion to use as a straw man....
I, was intent on getting to the other parts of my post that in fact, were relevant, but you wouldn't get past that one aspect which bears more than enough of a hint of bias, for whatever reason. I'm not attacking with strawman arguments, at all. You are taking what I said out of context, focusing with laser like intensity on aspects of my post which in fact had little to no bearing on the overal message, by definition that is a straw man argument, it's making out that I'm championing one website, which I just used as an example, and merely because I phrased the end of my post badly (an easily admitted mistake)when all I was in fact meaning and implying was that he should have taken more care to in fact find out as much as he could about PWE and their practices before anything. Wether or not that involves ANY sites and reviews be it the forums or his friends etc, or by just playing the game himself THAT IS IRRELEVANT. So long as he does look into it and take care he has a much less likely chance of this sort of problem occuring. If he takes anything from this and the insane and massively annoying problem between us you've highlighted
It would be that he needs to be more careful in future, and players defending this game will do so with a zeal and blind devotion that causes them to literally go full on attack dog, for little more than some bad phrasing and the mention of a website that you believe doesn't offer up realistic ratings, and throw around massive straw man arguments, because they've clearly NOTHING better to argue with...
I think that's all we have to discuss here. Unless you're going to make some other RIDICULOUS claim
to my intentions.
Fun Fact: This is, ironically the MOST times I've mentioned the BBB website in an online discussion capacity EVER. Bar none.
This **** is nuts...
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pentegarnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Welcome to anything. You do research before throwing money into it.
You need to learn to research before waving your card. Cryptic don't need to describe absolutely everything in their Zen store if it takes a 10 second google to get a better example / review.
Remember kids, exploitative business practices are the customer's fault.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Remember kids, exploitative business practices are the customer's fault.
In this case there was no exploitive practice. It clearly was a case of the customer not bothering with any trace of diligence in finding out what she was buying and then complaining that it wasn't what he assumed it was.
In this case there was no exploitive practice. It clearly was a case of the customer not bothering with any trace of diligence in finding out what she was buying and then complaining that it wasn't what he assumed it was.
^ This. Just this
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pentegarnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So basically, before i buy ANY item off the Zen store, i have to do research by looking through the forums for information?
Neverwinter devs, you really need to improve your performance on the ZEN store. You should never sell items that encourages your customers to pursue a refund. It doesn't make any business sense whatsoever.
Lesson:NEVER buy anything from PWE.
You get absolutely nothing for the amount of money you spend and you feel like an idiot after. 3 years of Jade Dynasty & Perfect World taught me that. Never again, no matter how tempting.
Why do people say its such a bad game, when its not:)
No matter the game you'll have people with different tastes and so some will not like it, just the way of things. For example I tried Wow when it first came out after playing EQ for a few years and despised it, indeed each time I tried WoW I could never understand its allure, I thought the cartoony graphics sucked and gameplay wasn't particularly different from EQ...But millions of other people loved it .
I bought the Hotn pack and have zero regrets as it will pay for itself over time, especially if you make alts with the new classes/races over the next few years as they will have access to a practically immediate top rank companion amongst other benefits .
What is this cult like mentality that forces people to defend Cryptic and make fun of a guy who spent 200 dollars on the game for not being happy with his purchase. If he doesn't have a right to complain than who does? Answer me that defenders of the Zen Realm.
What is disgusting however is people that defend stoopid is as stoopid does.
The only people here who are stupid, are those who are defending Cryptic's style of business practice, not the consumer.
Your intellect is so low, your education so lacking, or your worldview so limited, you fail to understand the implications of not defending the consumer in this instance.
It has nothing to do with the consumer's intellect. It has everything to do with a bad business practice that would never occur in retail stores.
Stupid people however, fail to understand that others are not stupid when they are naive or ignorant. Yet there is nothing to even state that the OP is naive or ignorant. Even wise, intelligent, experienced people make mistakes or fall into the trap of marketing every now and then. This single instance does not reflect on an individual's permanent character.
Intelligent people understand that mistakes happen to absolutely everyone, and a single instance or flaw in one area does not dictate a flawed person or consistent error in that person's choices. Intelligent people understand that there is an infinite amount of knowledge in society, and even intelligent people cannot be aware of all of it. Intelligent people understand that other humans are only aware of what they are aware of. This sounds silly, redundant, and even stupid "only aware of what they are aware of" but it is the simplest explanation of what unintelligent people like yourself fail to grasp.
Of course, you do NOT take the cake of dumbest poster. Not only are there thousands of people like you who help to encourage bad ethical practice by directly or indirectly supporting them (indirect support by attacking the consumer or blaming the victim of a crime) but there was actually someone here who posted this:
Not to call you a liar, but could you set the HotN forum title so your story seems more believable?
^This takes the cake for stupidest person in thread. Most of these comments seem like something from reddit, not from a normal forum. Too many psuedo-intellectual idiots who feel the need to victim-blame instead of develop a fraction of integrity and stand up for values and against immoral ethics like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over paying customers.
I don't think you people realize that when it comes to being immoral, it is irrelevant if the person "falls for it" or "deserves it". The person doing the unethical behavior is equally immoral, whether or not the person is naive enough to fall for it or wise enough to avoid it.
Stop blaming the victims of unethical behavior, and start developing some real intellect. Seriously. Before you collectively destroy our monetary social functions. Your lack of empathy and sympathy causes you to have an enormous amount of stupidity. Why? It's simple. You don't see the perspective of someone who views the world differently, so you exclude the important variables that intelligent people use to make their conclusions.
Value is completely out of wack for what you get for what you pay. I would spend money if I felt like there was anything worth it.
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perfectindigoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The internet is hilarious. If there is some way to solve a problem by walking uphill both ways on broken glass, inevitably someone will say how easy that is and that everyone is dumb and lazy for not doing it ... when most normal people simply don't want to walk on broken glass.
A person who is excited about Neverwinter should be able to buy one of the packs and feel good about their purchase. If they see something cool in the store, they should be able to impulse buy it and enjoy their purchase. They shouldn't have to consult the forums to find out what is broken or sucks. The feedback from this thread is ... I was having fun with Neverwinter and wanted to buy things to have more fun, but the things I got sucked and made me feel ripped off.
That's great feedback. Make the items a better value, make them work, and make them more fun. Otherwise people will learn that they can't trust Neverwinter to give them a good experience. They'll go elsewhere or start being a lot more selective with purchases, which is bad for the game.
When I go to a movie theater, I get popcorn if I feel like having popcorn. I don't research whether the popcorn is stale or doesn't have enough butter on it. I'm not at the theater to research popcorn. I'm there to watch a movie, so it's up to the theater to make sure the popcorn is good enough ... or I won't buy it next time. And if I like popcorn with my movie, maybe I'll even go to a different theater next time. Little things add up ... and no, the answer isn't for me to research theater popcorn ahead of time, then choose a different theater, or make my own popcorn and sneak it in with me. I know how obvious and easy that logic seems to the internet but that's not how real customer service works.
Keep people happy and they spend money happily. Upset them and they'll go elsewhere.
I have no regrets for my purchases. Sorry you do. I almost bought the acolyte but then i read the tooltip and didn't like it. Man am I glad I'm not prone to buying without understanding what I'm getting. Sucks for you though.
I won't be buying anything at this point, which is a shame because I really like the game but the pricing model/value is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of line.
I know even at 50% reduced cost sale still its way to high. Take that down another 50% maybe on all the items not just the completely useless items.
I really really really want this game to get better. As the weeks go on it gets less like the game will succeed. As the weeks go buy the game just gets worse. I mean come on That event crapness what the hell.
People need to stop blaming Cryptic. They are simply the people coding/maintaining the game. PWE tells them WHAT to code and WHEN to code it. PWE makes the calls, they are the publisher. Cryptic has nothing but creative input.
After reading 12 pages of this, I'm still not entirely convinced that it's not a poor trolling attempt. That really says a lot about the OP, I think.
Threads like this only serve to reaffirm my belief that we're heading towards a world as portrayed in the movie Idiocracy.
The real knee-slapper was that the OP lacks even the most basic of common sense to realize that a rare weapon will make things easier. It boggles the mind that there are actual people out there that can't wrap their heads around the fact that spending all that money to give themselves an advantage will...give themselves an advantage. Wow.
Of course, I'm gonna be flamed and probably edited/deleted by a mod for being insulting. You know, coddle the weak and all that. Nevermind that his braindead views and those who support them offend ME. Where's the concern for my feelings?
The real knee-slapper was that the OP lacks even the most basic of common sense to realize that a rare weapon will make things easier. It boggles the mind that there are actual people out there that can't wrap their heads around the fact that spending all that money to give themselves an advantage will...give themselves an advantage. Wow.
Understanding what what was actually written is as important as reading it. Reading it and then changing it to say something other than what was actually written and then commenting on the version that exists only in your head says nothing about the OP...
The OP did not complain that a rare weapon made things easier or gave him an advantage. he complained that it completely trivialized the game at that time. There is a rather large distinction between having an item that gives you an edge and one that removes all challenge from the game.
On the other hand, I do wonder why the OP did not just unequip an item if it was having such an adverse impact on his enjoyment of the game. I also wonder if the OP has ever heard the phrase, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." After the first time he discovered that buying without researching the game element to be purchased was a bad idea he went on to do it again.
I have to say, I'm a little disgusted at some of the posts in this thread attacking the OP.
Should he have researched before spending? Absolutely.
Does the amount he spent without doing said research seem higher than reasonable? To me yes, but it's a matter of opinion.
However, these things are irrelevant. All he has done is to say that he's not happy with his purchase. Nowhere that I saw did he demand a refund or scream that he'd been cheated. He simply said that he didn't feel that what he got was worth what he spent, and that he thought things weren't presented as clearly as they could be.
That sounds to me like exactly the kind of user feedback that public forums exist for. And yet people are climbing all over each other to yell "Entitlement!!!" at him. Makes no sense to me.
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kreed42Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 6Arc User
After reading 12 pages of this, I'm still not entirely convinced that it's not a poor trolling attempt. That really says a lot about the OP, I think.
Threads like this only serve to reaffirm my belief that we're heading towards a world as portrayed in the movie Idiocracy.
The real knee-slapper was that the OP lacks even the most basic of common sense to realize that a rare weapon will make things easier. It boggles the mind that there are actual people out there that can't wrap their heads around the fact that spending all that money to give themselves an advantage will...give themselves an advantage. Wow.
Of course, I'm gonna be flamed and probably edited/deleted by a mod for being insulting. You know, coddle the weak and all that. Nevermind that his braindead views and those who support them offend ME. Where's the concern for my feelings?
I just started playing neverwinter for 3-4 days. I have a steady job, and i liked the game enough, so i decided to spend some money on it.
My first horrible experience: Purchasing a neverwinter founder's pack. Can you say buyer's remorse? The spider was horrible, the drow race was ok, the blue weapon was terrible as it made level 1-15 content completely trivial. Other than that i was given a bunch of junk items which completely overwhelmed my inventory space.
I then consulted the forums, and everyone says the same thing: Spend your money on zen and buy the items instead.
Alright.. i made a mistake, let's buy some Zen instead, which leads to my next horrible experience:
I look at the companion list, and i see a Healer "Acolyte of kelemvor". A healer sounds useful to me!
Then i find out that the healer... doesn't heal, and performs even worse than the free cleric i received in game.
I then consulted the forums again, and everyone says : Acolyte of Kelemvor is worthless! Haha.
So basically, before i buy ANY item off the Zen store, i have to do research by looking through the forums for information?
Neverwinter devs, you really need to improve your performance on the ZEN store. You should never sell items that encourages your customers to pursue a refund. It doesn't make any business sense whatsoever.
Thanks,
Sean.
That's why I do not spend real money on any F2P title.
beware next time my friend that the industry of MMO is money grabbing only.
So basically, before i buy ANY item off the Zen store, i have to do research by looking through the forums for information? Neverwinter devs, you really need to improve your performance on the ZEN store. You should never sell items that encourages your customers to pursue a refund. It doesn't make any business sense whatsoever.
better conclusion, dont buy things while it still have label of "Beta" which is still really "unstable" ...
Comments
Heh no not defending Cryptic on this just of the opinion that the OP was less than wise. Way less than wise and then they came and complained about being less than wise in a public forum. No sympathy for that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
HE got EXACTLY what he paid for and what was promised. The fact that he assumed things about what it would give him is his own fault. If I am going to spend 200 dollars I'm going to do research. Hell I'm going to research spending 60 dollars on a console or PC game before I buy it.
So there is zero sympathy when someone made assumptions about a $200 purchase with zero research on it and then publicly whines that it wasn't what he assumed it was.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I bought the $200 pack because i want D&D stuff to be popular.
Put it this way - I went to see the D&D movies.
Ok?
I went in F2P and checked the game out before I purchased. I tried to get an idea of the value of the bigillion currencies. I could see the price of all of the individual items -vs- the $200 pack and tell it was a little ify as a value.
But I figured I'd get in on the ground floor and hope this turns out to be a great game.
I'm not unhappy with my purchase and don't feel duped.
I do however think the devs should fix some of the store purchase items to work better and cut the prices for some of the stuff to about half of what they are now.
You've mentioned little more than "BBB this" and "BBB that" since you started. Even when I alluded that you were blowing a tiny portion of the post out of proportion to use as a straw man....
I, was intent on getting to the other parts of my post that in fact, were relevant, but you wouldn't get past that one aspect which bears more than enough of a hint of bias, for whatever reason. I'm not attacking with strawman arguments, at all. You are taking what I said out of context, focusing with laser like intensity on aspects of my post which in fact had little to no bearing on the overal message, by definition that is a straw man argument, it's making out that I'm championing one website, which I just used as an example, and merely because I phrased the end of my post badly (an easily admitted mistake)when all I was in fact meaning and implying was that he should have taken more care to in fact find out as much as he could about PWE and their practices before anything. Wether or not that involves ANY sites and reviews be it the forums or his friends etc, or by just playing the game himself THAT IS IRRELEVANT. So long as he does look into it and take care he has a much less likely chance of this sort of problem occuring. If he takes anything from this and the insane and massively annoying problem between us you've highlighted
It would be that he needs to be more careful in future, and players defending this game will do so with a zeal and blind devotion that causes them to literally go full on attack dog, for little more than some bad phrasing and the mention of a website that you believe doesn't offer up realistic ratings, and throw around massive straw man arguments, because they've clearly NOTHING better to argue with...
I think that's all we have to discuss here. Unless you're going to make some other RIDICULOUS claim
to my intentions.
Fun Fact: This is, ironically the MOST times I've mentioned the BBB website in an online discussion capacity EVER. Bar none.
This **** is nuts...
In fairness to the OP, I didn't know you set that yourself until you mentioned it just now
Remember kids, exploitative business practices are the customer's fault.
In this case there was no exploitive practice. It clearly was a case of the customer not bothering with any trace of diligence in finding out what she was buying and then complaining that it wasn't what he assumed it was.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^ This. Just this
If that were the case then all lawsuits involving customer exploitation would be thrown out immediately
Lesson: NEVER buy anything from PWE.
You get absolutely nothing for the amount of money you spend and you feel like an idiot after. 3 years of Jade Dynasty & Perfect World taught me that. Never again, no matter how tempting.
I may spend another 20 but that'll be it for me. at this point i can just farm dungeons for AD so no real point.
No matter the game you'll have people with different tastes and so some will not like it, just the way of things. For example I tried Wow when it first came out after playing EQ for a few years and despised it, indeed each time I tried WoW I could never understand its allure, I thought the cartoony graphics sucked and gameplay wasn't particularly different from EQ...But millions of other people loved it
I bought the Hotn pack and have zero regrets as it will pay for itself over time, especially if you make alts with the new classes/races over the next few years as they will have access to a practically immediate top rank companion amongst other benefits
These were the quotes datemper was replying to. This is good stuff.
The only people here who are stupid, are those who are defending Cryptic's style of business practice, not the consumer.
Your intellect is so low, your education so lacking, or your worldview so limited, you fail to understand the implications of not defending the consumer in this instance.
It has nothing to do with the consumer's intellect. It has everything to do with a bad business practice that would never occur in retail stores.
Stupid people however, fail to understand that others are not stupid when they are naive or ignorant. Yet there is nothing to even state that the OP is naive or ignorant. Even wise, intelligent, experienced people make mistakes or fall into the trap of marketing every now and then. This single instance does not reflect on an individual's permanent character.
Intelligent people understand that mistakes happen to absolutely everyone, and a single instance or flaw in one area does not dictate a flawed person or consistent error in that person's choices. Intelligent people understand that there is an infinite amount of knowledge in society, and even intelligent people cannot be aware of all of it. Intelligent people understand that other humans are only aware of what they are aware of. This sounds silly, redundant, and even stupid "only aware of what they are aware of" but it is the simplest explanation of what unintelligent people like yourself fail to grasp.
Of course, you do NOT take the cake of dumbest poster. Not only are there thousands of people like you who help to encourage bad ethical practice by directly or indirectly supporting them (indirect support by attacking the consumer or blaming the victim of a crime) but there was actually someone here who posted this:
^This takes the cake for stupidest person in thread. Most of these comments seem like something from reddit, not from a normal forum. Too many psuedo-intellectual idiots who feel the need to victim-blame instead of develop a fraction of integrity and stand up for values and against immoral ethics like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over paying customers.
I don't think you people realize that when it comes to being immoral, it is irrelevant if the person "falls for it" or "deserves it". The person doing the unethical behavior is equally immoral, whether or not the person is naive enough to fall for it or wise enough to avoid it.
Stop blaming the victims of unethical behavior, and start developing some real intellect. Seriously. Before you collectively destroy our monetary social functions. Your lack of empathy and sympathy causes you to have an enormous amount of stupidity. Why? It's simple. You don't see the perspective of someone who views the world differently, so you exclude the important variables that intelligent people use to make their conclusions.
A person who is excited about Neverwinter should be able to buy one of the packs and feel good about their purchase. If they see something cool in the store, they should be able to impulse buy it and enjoy their purchase. They shouldn't have to consult the forums to find out what is broken or sucks. The feedback from this thread is ... I was having fun with Neverwinter and wanted to buy things to have more fun, but the things I got sucked and made me feel ripped off.
That's great feedback. Make the items a better value, make them work, and make them more fun. Otherwise people will learn that they can't trust Neverwinter to give them a good experience. They'll go elsewhere or start being a lot more selective with purchases, which is bad for the game.
When I go to a movie theater, I get popcorn if I feel like having popcorn. I don't research whether the popcorn is stale or doesn't have enough butter on it. I'm not at the theater to research popcorn. I'm there to watch a movie, so it's up to the theater to make sure the popcorn is good enough ... or I won't buy it next time. And if I like popcorn with my movie, maybe I'll even go to a different theater next time. Little things add up ... and no, the answer isn't for me to research theater popcorn ahead of time, then choose a different theater, or make my own popcorn and sneak it in with me. I know how obvious and easy that logic seems to the internet but that's not how real customer service works.
Keep people happy and they spend money happily. Upset them and they'll go elsewhere.
Stealing this quote.
I know even at 50% reduced cost sale still its way to high. Take that down another 50% maybe on all the items not just the completely useless items.
I really really really want this game to get better. As the weeks go on it gets less like the game will succeed. As the weeks go buy the game just gets worse. I mean come on That event crapness what the hell.
Threads like this only serve to reaffirm my belief that we're heading towards a world as portrayed in the movie Idiocracy.
The real knee-slapper was that the OP lacks even the most basic of common sense to realize that a rare weapon will make things easier. It boggles the mind that there are actual people out there that can't wrap their heads around the fact that spending all that money to give themselves an advantage will...give themselves an advantage. Wow.
Of course, I'm gonna be flamed and probably edited/deleted by a mod for being insulting. You know, coddle the weak and all that. Nevermind that his braindead views and those who support them offend ME. Where's the concern for my feelings?
Understanding what what was actually written is as important as reading it. Reading it and then changing it to say something other than what was actually written and then commenting on the version that exists only in your head says nothing about the OP...
The OP did not complain that a rare weapon made things easier or gave him an advantage. he complained that it completely trivialized the game at that time. There is a rather large distinction between having an item that gives you an edge and one that removes all challenge from the game.
On the other hand, I do wonder why the OP did not just unequip an item if it was having such an adverse impact on his enjoyment of the game. I also wonder if the OP has ever heard the phrase, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." After the first time he discovered that buying without researching the game element to be purchased was a bad idea he went on to do it again.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Should he have researched before spending? Absolutely.
Does the amount he spent without doing said research seem higher than reasonable? To me yes, but it's a matter of opinion.
However, these things are irrelevant. All he has done is to say that he's not happy with his purchase. Nowhere that I saw did he demand a refund or scream that he'd been cheated. He simply said that he didn't feel that what he got was worth what he spent, and that he thought things weren't presented as clearly as they could be.
That sounds to me like exactly the kind of user feedback that public forums exist for. And yet people are climbing all over each other to yell "Entitlement!!!" at him. Makes no sense to me.
Indeed heh
That's why I do not spend real money on any F2P title.
beware next time my friend that the industry of MMO is money grabbing only.
better conclusion, dont buy things while it still have label of "Beta" which is still really "unstable" ...