What is this cult like mentality that forces people to defend Cryptic and make fun of a guy who spent 200 dollars on the game for not being happy with his purchase. If he doesn't have a right to complain than who does? Answer me that defenders of the Zen Realm.
edit: I spent 10 dollars on Zen for a respec and that much I begrudgingly accepted as money wasted on mostly vapid product.
I just started playing neverwinter for 3-4 days. I have a steady job, and i liked the game enough, so i decided to spend some money on it.
My first horrible experience: Purchasing a neverwinter founder's pack. Can you say buyer's remorse? The spider was horrible, the drow race was ok, the blue weapon was terrible as it made level 1-15 content completely trivial. Other than that i was given a bunch of junk items which completely overwhelmed my inventory space.
I then consulted the forums, and everyone says the same thing: Spend your money on zen and buy the items instead.
Alright.. i made a mistake, let's buy some Zen instead, which leads to my next horrible experience:
I look at the companion list, and i see a Healer "Acolyte of kelemvor". A healer sounds useful to me!
Then i find out that the healer... doesn't heal, and performs even worse than the free cleric i received in game.
I then consulted the forums again, and everyone says : Acolyte of Kelemvor is worthless! Haha.
So basically, before i buy ANY item off the Zen store, i have to do research by looking through the forums for information?
Neverwinter devs, you really need to improve your performance on the ZEN store. You should never sell items that encourages your customers to pursue a refund. It doesn't make any business sense whatsoever.
Thanks,
Sean.
Buyers remorse ? K fine mate =P
It seems you did more than enough research on the product before you purchased it.Good luck with buying a car!
What is this cult like mentality that forces people to defend Cryptic and make fun of a guy who spent 200 dollars on the game for not being happy with his purchase. If he doesn't have a right to complain than who does? Answer me that defenders of the Zen Realm.
He has no entitlement to complain about purchasing a product that doesn't suit his needs because of lack of research.
He may be entitled to a refund or exchange if so stated by the terms and conditions of purchase as stated by the developers.....and he should pursue that avenue in private with the company he did business with.
If I have a large family and need to purchase private transport and purchase a motorbike.......well you get what I mean =P
He has no entitlement to complain about purchasing a product that doesn't suit his needs because of lack of research.
He may be entitled to a refund or exchange if so stated by the terms and conditions of purchase as stated by the developers.....and he should pursue that avenue in private with the company he did business with.
If I have a large family and need to purchase private transport and purchase a motorbike.......well you get what I mean =P
No I don't get what you mean at all. 200 dollars is an extravagant number to attach to any game in our retail market. You could probably buy every single AAA title that has come out in the last 6 months for that much money. So Cryptic has an obligation to give something that's not buggy/broken/exploitable to a gamer for that kind of money. I don't give a flying HAMSTER if you wipe your butt with hundos have some self respect as a gamer and realize no legit publisher would get away with that in the retail world.
He has no entitlement to complain about purchasing a product that doesn't suit his needs because of lack of research.
He may be entitled to a refund or exchange if so stated by the terms and conditions of purchase as stated by the developers.....and he should pursue that avenue in private with the company he did business with.
If I have a large family and need to purchase private transport and purchase a motorbike.......well you get what I mean =P
I don't believe he is entitled to a refund, that may come as a shock but ultimately he should have waited before sinking ANY money into the game at all, if he didn't see the built in cash bias that is packed way at the back of the game where it will sit in wait for people, then he has only himself to blame for trusting a company that has an F rating in the BBB.
I don't agree this game has anywhere NEAR a decent monetization design, I believe we deserve a far better design which doesn't exploit people, and I believe this completely, but as harsh as this sounds, and as much as I hope he doesn't take it personally, OP is in fact a PART of the problem, and simply has to learn this lesson. So that he never again tosses good money after bad.
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akikisaragiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
No I don't get what you mean at all. 200 dollars is an extravagant number to attach to any game in our retail market. You could probably buy every single AAA title that has come out in the last 6 months for that much money. So Cryptic has an obligation to give something that's not buggy/broken/exploitable to a gamer for that kind of money. I don't give a flying HAMSTER if you wipe your butt with hundos have some self respect as a gamer and realize no legit publisher would get away with that in the retail world.
The HotN pack delivers exactly what it stated. There are no excuses.
No I don't get what you mean at all. 200 dollars is an extravagant number to attach to any game in our retail market. You could probably buy every single AAA title that has come out in the last 6 months for that much money. So Cryptic has an obligation to give something that's not buggy/broken/exploitable to a gamer for that kind of money. I don't give a flying HAMSTER if you wipe your butt with hundos have some self respect as a gamer and realize no legit publisher would get away with that in the retail world.
The point is,he received what he payed for no more and no less.It's not Cryptics *obligation* to choose content for him.
Cryptic supplied the exclusive content as advertised.
Yes $200 is quite an investment,but I've spent more on games/companies in development that I'd like to see prosper.
I got plenty of self respect and more than enough respect for others thankyou very much.There is no such obligation for *any* developer to provide a bug/broken/exploitable free beta to anyone,in fact open betas are the best way for devs to find and squash bugs/exploits.
I've been playing andtesting Alpha/closed beta/open betas for over 20 years good sir and am yet to find one that dosnt have bugs/exploits/broken elements.
If you want a polished game don't play beta.
EDIT: Oh and by the way,you can thank investors when you get over this entitlement thing. keeping free to play free,game content enriched and the servers online.
My guess is they know they have maybe 90 days of sucking money from people before massive population decline. Based on their past titles, I'd say my guess is a good one.
well you sure are still here. Maybe they have a little longer? Troll.
I don't believe he is entitled to a refund, that may come as a shock but ultimately he should have waited before sinking ANY money into the game at all, if he didn't see the built in cash bias that is packed way at the back of the game where it will sit in wait for people, then he has only himself to blame for trusting a company that has an F rating in the BBB.
I don't agree this game has anywhere NEAR a decent monetization design, I believe we deserve a far better design which doesn't exploit people, and I believe this completely, but as harsh as this sounds, and as much as I hope he doesn't take it personally, OP is in fact a PART of the problem, and simply has to learn this lesson. So that he never again tosses good money after bad.
So, who writes to the BBB? How many glowing recommendations do you think they get from gaming industry customers? So if they get 10 letters denoting negative connotations, they'll get an F. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, and I don't care what they are. The fact is, when I'm browsing games to play, I don't go see what their publisher/developer gets at the BBB. There'd be a lot of games I'd have never played if I did, and I'd regret it if I'd known the truth about them. I'd imagine nobody would touch a BioWare game after the ME 3 fiasco, if they went to the BBB after the initial shock and awe campaign by the "hold the line" people, which would be a shame since, other than the last 15 minutes or so, the trilogy is great.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
What is this cult like mentality that forces people to defend Cryptic and make fun of a guy who spent 200 dollars on the game for not being happy with his purchase.
So, who writes to the BBB? How many glowing recommendations do you think they get from gaming industry customers? So if they get 10 letters denoting negative connotations, they'll get an F. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, and I don't care what they are. The fact is, when I'm browsing games to play, I don't go see what their publisher/developer gets at the BBB. There'd be a lot of games I'd have never played if I did, and I'd regret it if I'd known the truth about them. I'd imagine nobody would touch a BioWare game after the ME 3 fiasco, if they went to the BBB after the initial shock and awe campaign by the "hold the line" people, which would be a shame since, other than the last 15 minutes or so, the trilogy is great.
They have those ratings because they don't respond to customer issues when it comes to monetary value. they're not just reviews that cause them to drop in ratings, they're CASES. If you don't use the BBB website that's fine, but at the same time you can't say no one tried to warn you of their poor customer relations.
They have those ratings because they don't respond to customer issues when it comes to monetary value. they're not just reviews that cause them to drop in ratings, they're CASES. If you don't use the BBB website that's fine, but at the same time you can't say no one tried to warn you of their poor customer relations.
So the people that write are people that are feeling disenfranchised by the company, and that's supposed to be a reliable source of information? In other words, the people that might write the BBB include people like the OP. Aren't you saying that the OP has no right to complain, while espousing the idea that he should have checked the BBB, an organization that will get letters from people exactly like him? Logic; out the window.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
So the people that write are people that are feeling disenfranchised by the company, and that's supposed to be a reliable source of information? In other words, the people that might write the BBB include people like the OP. Aren't you saying that the OP has no right to complain, while espousing the idea that he should have checked the BBB, an organization that will get letters from people exactly like him? Logic; out the window.
I'm pretty sure it's a bit more complicated than that, and from what I can tell, they collect data from their records of all customer care issues, hence why their reasons for the rating include how many of their customers they successfully deal with in a satisfactory fashion. But yeah... straw man away... getting used to it on these forums...
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xnargrothxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
He made a legit feedback, which should be appreciated rather than people jumping on the bandwagon and trying to post insults just because that's the cool thing to do.
I entirely agree that you get a bunch of rubbish items that are good for nothing but stowing away in the bank and/or discarding.
The spider mount is quite decent, at least I like it, both for the speed and the looks.
As for the weapon you get, I also agree that it makes the content totally trivial to the point where it's actually boring to play. You 1 or 2 shot every mob and then at level 20 you find something better to use. They could almost have just given you a token that said "click here for instant level 15".
Several of the purchases in the zen store are very lacking in their descriptions as well. How many knows that when buying a companion with a green frame it means the companion can't reach higher than level 15? It doesn't say anywhere. You have to figure it out yourself by researching the web, forums or ask around ingame... that is, if you are even aware that there is such a limitation which the game, again, says nothing about while in the store.
There are many improvements they need to do with the store, especially in regards to information to let players (read: customers) know what they are buying. Should you have to do a google search, ask around in the street or visit the dealers forum pages everytime you want to buy something in a regular store? Oh, I want a new camera, but lets just accept that the description provided by the seller simply states "Camera, good for taking pictures", and I'll be forced to go research to figure out the details.
The OP is right in several aspects.
I'm glad he actually starts a thread to provide the feedback, not really caring whether people agree or disagree. That's not the point of a feedback anyways.
However, it's really sad to witness that several people who disagree are unable to stop at the point of stating their disagreement, but then proceed to devolve their disagreement into a "troll & flame" reply.
I'm pretty sure it's a bit more complicated than that, and from what I can tell, they collect data from their records of all customer care issues, hence why their reasons for the rating include how many of their customers they successfully deal with in a satisfactory fashion. But yeah... straw man away... getting used to it on these forums...
You should be, since using the BBB as a reliable source of information is the biggest strawman ever. So who sends in the customer care issues? Disenfranchised customers? People like the OP, right, that feel like the company ripped them off? I realize you want to cling desperately to this hope that the BBB is some kind of business police or something, but other than ratings that are, by and large, simply pulled out of someone's *** based on customer complaints, and those complaints can be exactly the things presented in the OP, you're failing miserably at convincing me that it's my best hope for an honest appraisal of a company.
To break it down to MMO Simple: The OP could be one of the people that submitted a complaint to the BBB. If there are 1,000 cases filed, all of them could be the exact same type of issue. According to you, the OP has no reason to complain, since he could have checked the BBB and found out they had 999 complaints exactly like his. Yeah, one of us stuck in strawman land, but really, I don't see it being me. An example: An MMO I used to play had a server pull a catastrophic failure, and 1,000 people sent a letter to the BBB because they didn't have access to content, even though they could have had it , if they'd just played on another server. Catastrophic failure is beyond the realm of control, but hey, let's all get together and overwhelm the BBB with complaints so they'll get an F.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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csileMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I like the spider, think its cool to look at.
Why do people say its such a bad game, when its not:)
You should be, since using the BBB as a reliable source of information is the biggest strawman ever. So who sends in the customer care issues? Disenfranchised customers? People like the OP, right, that feel like the company ripped them off? I realize you want to cling desperately to this hope that the BBB is some kind of business police or something, but other than ratings that are, by and large, simply pulled out of someone's *** based on customer complaints, and those complaints can be exactly the things presented in the OP, you're failing miserably at convincing me that it's my best hope for an honest appraisal of a company.
To break it down to MMO Simple: The OP could be one of the people that submitted a complaint to the BBB. If there are 1,000 cases filed, all of them could be the exact same type of issue. According to you, the OP has no reason to complain, since he could have checked the BBB and found out they had 999 complaints exactly like his. Yeah, one of us stuck in strawman land, but really, I don't see it being me. An example: An MMO I used to play had a server pull a catastrophic failure, and 1,000 people sent a letter to the BBB because they didn't have access to content, even though they could have had it , if they'd just played on another server. Catastrophic failure is beyond the realm of control, but hey, let's all get together and overwhelm the BBB with complaints so they'll get an F.
3: stop taking ONE comment from my post and humping it like a rabid dog.
:rolleyes:
In the end, I don't CARE how they reached their verdict of an F, at least not enough to really make it the crux of my argument, I go by my own experience and what I can gather myself information wise and mix that with a bit of common sense. You've just taken that one aspect of my post and made out that it's the only thing I've said. If you can only react to THAT then I would be more concerned with why you didn't take it upon yourself to challenge me on the rest? lol
I'm not arguing that this is about the BBB. I'm arguing that he should have known better and made his own judgment, there are sites for this SUCH AS the BBB, and no company is obliged to seek their support, it was an EXAMPLE. And there was other ways he could have avoided this mess.
However, despite that I'm sure he's learned not to sink money into a f2p game without at LEAST losing that naive good faith he seems to have, which is a bit sad but par the course.
The Spider and Drow race are awesome... see it's a matter of opinion. Hero's decided to plunk down $200 because we wanted to support the game and get some cool stuff. Research your purchases and make sure they are what you want before throwing your CC at things.
Just wanted to say is....I've been playing for a week now and i haven't spent any money on this game yet! lol Why the hell would you waste money on a game that still in beta? TWO HUNDRED BUCKS TO MENTION ROFL. Why would you NOT research this information before you buy? Every time i see a new game come out, i goto youtube and their forums to check it out and to see if it has a trial for it. A weapon that makes the level 1-15 content seem trivial? Dude, there are 60 levels and it's still in beta LOL. Come on.
Just wanted to say is....I've been playing for a week now and i haven't spent any money on this game yet! lol Why the hell would you waste money on a game that still in beta? TWO HUNDRED BUCKS TO MENTION ROFL. Why would you NOT research this information before you buy? Every time i see a new game come out, i goto youtube and their forums to check it out and to see if it has a trial for it. A weapon that makes the level 1-15 content seem trivial? Dude, there are 60 levels and it's still in beta LOL. Come on.
Everything aside, this is just appeal to ridicule, a common rhetological fallacy.
I don't believe he is entitled to a refund, that may come as a shock but ultimately he should have waited before sinking ANY money into the game at all, if he didn't see the built in cash bias that is packed way at the back of the game where it will sit in wait for people, then he has only himself to blame for trusting a company that has an F rating in the BBB.
I don't agree this game has anywhere NEAR a decent monetization design, I believe we deserve a far better design which doesn't exploit people, and I believe this completely, but as harsh as this sounds, and as much as I hope he doesn't take it personally, OP is in fact a PART of the problem, and simply has to learn this lesson. So that he never again tosses good money after bad.
3: stop taking ONE comment from my post and humping it like a rabid dog.
:rolleyes:
In the end, I don't CARE how they reached their verdict of an F, at least not enough to really make it the crux of my argument, I go by my own experience and what I can gather myself information wise and mix that with a bit of common sense. You've just taken that one aspect of my post and made out that it's the only thing I've said. If you can only react to THAT then I would be more concerned with why you didn't take it upon yourself to challenge me on the rest? lol
I'm not arguing that this is about the BBB. I'm arguing that he should have known better and made his own judgment, there are sites for this SUCH AS the BBB, and no company is obliged to seek their support, it was an EXAMPLE. And there was other ways he could have avoided this mess.
However, despite that I'm sure he's learned not to sink money into a f2p game without at LEAST losing that naive good faith he seems to have, which is a bit sad but par the course.
There's your post. What was it you said? Allow me to highlight it. I know, "But Rob, see all that other stuff I said, doesn't it bear any weight?", and my answer is "No, it doesn't". Why? Because you are sincerely trying to convince me that there was some legitimate reason for you to bring the BBB into the discussion, despite how their rating system works. To me, it's the same as basing a buy/not buy on a game's forums. Who are the most active members on forums? People with grievances to air, and fanboys? I know; "But Rob, here you are, what gives?" and the answer is simple, I find them entertaining, sometimes more entertaining than the games they are connected to.
"But Rob, why jump on my post for mentioning it"? It's simple really, and spelled out twice in my previous replies. The people that are going to write the BBB about a business are people that feel they are adversely affected, and their investigation is simply going to be a phone call/letters asking about the situation. So if it's "I feel I should be refunded for my purchase" and there's a "no refund clause" in the purchase agreement, company gets a lower grade, and if there are x number of complaints, they get an F. So, people that do exactly what you're calling a negative by stating that the OP doesn't have a right to complain write letters to the BBB, and generate a negative experience according to BBB guidelines and policies is supposed to be a goto source? I guess the difference is, that I know exactly how it works, and so, know that I don't need a grade from the BBB to make a buy/don't buy decision.
Of course, I didn't jump on the Founder's Packs when I started getting emails about them last year, or whenever it was, because I had no idea what the game was going to be like, and couldn't justify spending the money, and after playing it, I was glad I didn't spend my 200 bucks on it. I did, obviously, spend 60 bucks on it later, but not sight unseen. In other words, I managed to make an informed decision, and won't regret it. Which is, surprisingly enough, what you're advocating, and I managed to do it w/out having to have the BBB's negative influence biased grade to tell me. You can link definitions until your brain explodes, but that won't change the fact that if nobody is complaining, a business won't have a rating at the BBB. For proof, search their database about me, just search Robert the Bard, and let me know what my grade is, okay? Then we can talk about the BBB as a reliable source of non-biased information on a company.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
LOL we bought a dozen eggs recently. The end of one egg was gone, it was placed downward in the carton so it was not visible. Everything inside the egg was gone as if the egg had been rinsed out, and there was no mess, dried or otherwise, in/on the egg or carton. That was a new one.
There's your post. What was it you said? Allow me to highlight it. I know, "But Rob, see all that other stuff I said, doesn't it bear any weight?", and my answer is "No, it doesn't". Why? Because you are sincerely trying to convince me that there was some legitimate reason for you to bring the BBB into the discussion, despite how their rating system works. To me, it's the same as basing a buy/not buy on a game's forums. Who are the most active members on forums? People with grievances to air, and fanboys? I know; "But Rob, here you are, what gives?" and the answer is simple, I find them entertaining, sometimes more entertaining than the games they are connected to.
"But Rob, why jump on my post for mentioning it"? It's simple really, and spelled out twice in my previous replies. The people that are going to write the BBB about a business are people that feel they are adversely affected, and their investigation is simply going to be a phone call/letters asking about the situation. So if it's "I feel I should be refunded for my purchase" and there's a "no refund clause" in the purchase agreement, company gets a lower grade, and if there are x number of complaints, they get an F. So, people that do exactly what you're calling a negative by stating that the OP doesn't have a right to complain write letters to the BBB, and generate a negative experience according to BBB guidelines and policies is supposed to be a goto source? I guess the difference is, that I know exactly how it works, and so, know that I don't need a grade from the BBB to make a buy/don't buy decision.
Of course, I didn't jump on the Founder's Packs when I started getting emails about them last year, or whenever it was, because I had no idea what the game was going to be like, and couldn't justify spending the money, and after playing it, I was glad I didn't spend my 200 bucks on it. I did, obviously, spend 60 bucks on it later, but not sight unseen. In other words, I managed to make an informed decision, and won't regret it. Which is, surprisingly enough, what you're advocating, and I managed to do it w/out having to have the BBB's negative influence biased grade to tell me. You can link definitions until your brain explodes, but that won't change the fact that if nobody is complaining, a business won't have a rating at the BBB. For proof, search their database about me, just search Robert the Bard, and let me know what my grade is, okay? Then we can talk about the BBB as a reliable source of non-biased information on a company.
You REALLY have a massive grudge against the BBB don't you? I mean like, it was ONE small comment involving them and you have now totally blown it out of proportion and made it some massive aspect of your argument, it's starting to come across as odd. either that or you just can't stop focusing on the near irrelevant parts of my post which is equally as odd. An informed decision is key, but there ARE sites like the BBB (but not exclusively them alone), which could give you a decent enough piece of the puzzle for you to put together to help bolster that informed decision.
all you're doing now AGAIN is making an even BIGGER straw man, arguing by taking something I said, out of context. And pretty much you've been doing this since the start in a increasingly rant laden fashion.
If I had of exclaimed "oh but you should ALWAYS check the BBB for their rating of a business, they're the only ones to listen to" then hells yeah you're totally justified in this RIDICULOUS assumption you've made, instead I just said "they deserve the rating" that doesn't mean that BBB gave them that rating for legitimate reasons, that means "I" think they deserve an "F" rating.
Opinions, are not facts. Please stop considering MINE as a fact, when it wasn't intended that way, by making a huge straw man argument about it.
edit: Anyways, perhaps you do have a point in the first post, I should have phrased it better, but ****... some fkn rant about one aspect of a post xD that wasn't that relevant even lol
I'll rephrase as such:
OP should have known better than to trust a company that has a LOT of negative feedback and controversy about it from various sources.
There, no BBB, no specifications just "a lot of folks call this game's monetization HORSE MANURE" lol
I don't believe he is entitled to a refund, that may come as a shock but ultimately he should have waited before sinking ANY money into the game at all, if he didn't see the built in cash bias that is packed way at the back of the game where it will sit in wait for people, then he has only himself to blame for trusting a company that has an F rating in the BBB.
I don't agree this game has anywhere NEAR a decent monetization design, I believe we deserve a far better design which doesn't exploit people, and I believe this completely, but as harsh as this sounds, and as much as I hope he doesn't take it personally, OP is in fact a PART of the problem, and simply has to learn this lesson. So that he never again tosses good money after bad.
You REALLY have a massive grudge against the BBB don't you? I mean like, it was ONE small comment involving them and you have now totally blown it out of proportion and made it some massive aspect of your argument, it's starting to come across as odd. either that or you just can't stop focusing on the near irrelevant parts of my post which is equally as odd. An informed decision is key, but there ARE sites like the BBB (but not exclusively them alone), which could give you a decent enough piece of the puzzle for you to put together to help bolster that informed decision.
all you're doing now AGAIN is making an even BIGGER straw man, arguing by taking something I said, out of context. And pretty much you've been doing this since the start in a increasingly rant laden fashion.
If I had of exclaimed "oh but you should ALWAYS check the BBB for their rating of a business, they're the only ones to listen to" then hells yeah you're totally justified in this RIDICULOUS assumption you've made, instead I just said "they deserve the rating" that doesn't mean that BBB gave them that rating for legitimate reasons, that means "I" think they deserve an "F" rating.
Opinions, are not facts. Please stop considering MINE as a fact, when it wasn't intended that way, by making a huge straw man argument about it.
Actually, all I've been doing is replying to you.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
You didn't have to do any research with regard to the acolyte vs the disciple. Simply READ the info that pops up when you mouse over either companion, wth. One states a heal, the other states a life steal. Two different effects. If you blow $200 on a video game without doing any kind of research, that's called an impulse buy. If you're unhappy with your purchase, that's on you the consumer and not on the provider. All you had to do was click on a few extra things to learn MOST of what you would need to know. Spend another 15-20 minutes on the forums (there were plenty of posts about the founders packs) and THEN click that big shiny BUY NOW button. Buyers remorse? Not likely, as I'm tempted to be quite rude and call it what it really is. They need to make this game require a credit card to keep the majority of the kiddies away.
If you can't be constructive in your criticism, go back to world-of-whiners.
All you've been doing is blowing one thing I said out of proportion, I've rephrased what I meant to better fit into your criteria, and the points I made other than that still stand.
Do you even HAVE an issue with ANYTHING else I said in regards to the op, or were you JUST being anally retentive for the sake of it?
All you've been doing is blowing one thing I said out of proportion, I've rephrased what I meant to better fit into your criteria, and the points I made other than that still stand.
Do you even HAVE an issue with ANYTHING else I said in regards to the op, or were you JUST being anally retentive for the sake of it?
I commented on the part of your post that I had issue with, and have subsequently commented on the remainder of it. Of course, you were so intent on defending the BBB that you went off on a tangent with it. I have no control over what you decide is an important issue, but you evidently felt it was important enough to start looking up info on them, and then attacking with strawman and definitions thereof. Responding to those doesn't make me anally retentive, although presenting them while claiming it wasn't important really does come across that way. Check it out, I'm a Guardian. That means that I bought the cheaper pack, but I didn't change to Guardian until today. What do you suppose that means? It means that I made an informed decision. I have been getting emails from PWE to buy the Founder's Packs for months, since I have had an account with them, largely inactive, for years. Since I couldn't make an informed decision sight unseen, I made the logical decision, and waited. I then weighed what's in what, and decided that I could see myself buying this pack w/out regret.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Comments
edit: I spent 10 dollars on Zen for a respec and that much I begrudgingly accepted as money wasted on mostly vapid product.
Buyers remorse ? K fine mate =P
It seems you did more than enough research on the product before you purchased it.Good luck with buying a car!
that is why people dislike what he is saying, because he stuck his hand in an oven without checking if it was on
He has no entitlement to complain about purchasing a product that doesn't suit his needs because of lack of research.
He may be entitled to a refund or exchange if so stated by the terms and conditions of purchase as stated by the developers.....and he should pursue that avenue in private with the company he did business with.
If I have a large family and need to purchase private transport and purchase a motorbike.......well you get what I mean =P
No I don't get what you mean at all. 200 dollars is an extravagant number to attach to any game in our retail market. You could probably buy every single AAA title that has come out in the last 6 months for that much money. So Cryptic has an obligation to give something that's not buggy/broken/exploitable to a gamer for that kind of money. I don't give a flying HAMSTER if you wipe your butt with hundos have some self respect as a gamer and realize no legit publisher would get away with that in the retail world.
I don't believe he is entitled to a refund, that may come as a shock but ultimately he should have waited before sinking ANY money into the game at all, if he didn't see the built in cash bias that is packed way at the back of the game where it will sit in wait for people, then he has only himself to blame for trusting a company that has an F rating in the BBB.
I don't agree this game has anywhere NEAR a decent monetization design, I believe we deserve a far better design which doesn't exploit people, and I believe this completely, but as harsh as this sounds, and as much as I hope he doesn't take it personally, OP is in fact a PART of the problem, and simply has to learn this lesson. So that he never again tosses good money after bad.
The HotN pack delivers exactly what it stated. There are no excuses.
The point is,he received what he payed for no more and no less.It's not Cryptics *obligation* to choose content for him.
Cryptic supplied the exclusive content as advertised.
Yes $200 is quite an investment,but I've spent more on games/companies in development that I'd like to see prosper.
I got plenty of self respect and more than enough respect for others thankyou very much.There is no such obligation for *any* developer to provide a bug/broken/exploitable free beta to anyone,in fact open betas are the best way for devs to find and squash bugs/exploits.
I've been playing andtesting Alpha/closed beta/open betas for over 20 years good sir and am yet to find one that dosnt have bugs/exploits/broken elements.
If you want a polished game don't play beta.
EDIT: Oh and by the way,you can thank investors when you get over this entitlement thing. keeping free to play free,game content enriched and the servers online.
well you sure are still here. Maybe they have a little longer? Troll.
So, who writes to the BBB? How many glowing recommendations do you think they get from gaming industry customers? So if they get 10 letters denoting negative connotations, they'll get an F. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, and I don't care what they are. The fact is, when I'm browsing games to play, I don't go see what their publisher/developer gets at the BBB. There'd be a lot of games I'd have never played if I did, and I'd regret it if I'd known the truth about them. I'd imagine nobody would touch a BioWare game after the ME 3 fiasco, if they went to the BBB after the initial shock and awe campaign by the "hold the line" people, which would be a shame since, other than the last 15 minutes or so, the trilogy is great.
I have no idea but it's disgusting.
Not defending Cryptic at all.
What is disgusting however is people that defend stoopid is as stoopid does.
They have those ratings because they don't respond to customer issues when it comes to monetary value. they're not just reviews that cause them to drop in ratings, they're CASES. If you don't use the BBB website that's fine, but at the same time you can't say no one tried to warn you of their poor customer relations.
So the people that write are people that are feeling disenfranchised by the company, and that's supposed to be a reliable source of information? In other words, the people that might write the BBB include people like the OP. Aren't you saying that the OP has no right to complain, while espousing the idea that he should have checked the BBB, an organization that will get letters from people exactly like him? Logic; out the window.
I'm pretty sure it's a bit more complicated than that, and from what I can tell, they collect data from their records of all customer care issues, hence why their reasons for the rating include how many of their customers they successfully deal with in a satisfactory fashion. But yeah... straw man away... getting used to it on these forums...
I entirely agree that you get a bunch of rubbish items that are good for nothing but stowing away in the bank and/or discarding.
The spider mount is quite decent, at least I like it, both for the speed and the looks.
As for the weapon you get, I also agree that it makes the content totally trivial to the point where it's actually boring to play. You 1 or 2 shot every mob and then at level 20 you find something better to use. They could almost have just given you a token that said "click here for instant level 15".
Several of the purchases in the zen store are very lacking in their descriptions as well. How many knows that when buying a companion with a green frame it means the companion can't reach higher than level 15? It doesn't say anywhere. You have to figure it out yourself by researching the web, forums or ask around ingame... that is, if you are even aware that there is such a limitation which the game, again, says nothing about while in the store.
There are many improvements they need to do with the store, especially in regards to information to let players (read: customers) know what they are buying. Should you have to do a google search, ask around in the street or visit the dealers forum pages everytime you want to buy something in a regular store? Oh, I want a new camera, but lets just accept that the description provided by the seller simply states "Camera, good for taking pictures", and I'll be forced to go research to figure out the details.
The OP is right in several aspects.
I'm glad he actually starts a thread to provide the feedback, not really caring whether people agree or disagree. That's not the point of a feedback anyways.
However, it's really sad to witness that several people who disagree are unable to stop at the point of stating their disagreement, but then proceed to devolve their disagreement into a "troll & flame" reply.
You should be, since using the BBB as a reliable source of information is the biggest strawman ever. So who sends in the customer care issues? Disenfranchised customers? People like the OP, right, that feel like the company ripped them off? I realize you want to cling desperately to this hope that the BBB is some kind of business police or something, but other than ratings that are, by and large, simply pulled out of someone's *** based on customer complaints, and those complaints can be exactly the things presented in the OP, you're failing miserably at convincing me that it's my best hope for an honest appraisal of a company.
To break it down to MMO Simple: The OP could be one of the people that submitted a complaint to the BBB. If there are 1,000 cases filed, all of them could be the exact same type of issue. According to you, the OP has no reason to complain, since he could have checked the BBB and found out they had 999 complaints exactly like his. Yeah, one of us stuck in strawman land, but really, I don't see it being me. An example: An MMO I used to play had a server pull a catastrophic failure, and 1,000 people sent a letter to the BBB because they didn't have access to content, even though they could have had it , if they'd just played on another server. Catastrophic failure is beyond the realm of control, but hey, let's all get together and overwhelm the BBB with complaints so they'll get an F.
Why do people say its such a bad game, when its not:)
1: take the tin foil hat off, you're exaggerating
2: http://www.bbb.org/business-reviews/ratings/ read it yourself
3: stop taking ONE comment from my post and humping it like a rabid dog.
:rolleyes:
In the end, I don't CARE how they reached their verdict of an F, at least not enough to really make it the crux of my argument, I go by my own experience and what I can gather myself information wise and mix that with a bit of common sense. You've just taken that one aspect of my post and made out that it's the only thing I've said. If you can only react to THAT then I would be more concerned with why you didn't take it upon yourself to challenge me on the rest? lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
I'm not arguing that this is about the BBB. I'm arguing that he should have known better and made his own judgment, there are sites for this SUCH AS the BBB, and no company is obliged to seek their support, it was an EXAMPLE. And there was other ways he could have avoided this mess.
However, despite that I'm sure he's learned not to sink money into a f2p game without at LEAST losing that naive good faith he seems to have, which is a bit sad but par the course.
Not sure what makes it terrible, as it helps you get through the tutorial, and first few levels quicker. Actually seems pretty useful to me.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Everything aside, this is just appeal to ridicule, a common rhetological fallacy.
There's your post. What was it you said? Allow me to highlight it. I know, "But Rob, see all that other stuff I said, doesn't it bear any weight?", and my answer is "No, it doesn't". Why? Because you are sincerely trying to convince me that there was some legitimate reason for you to bring the BBB into the discussion, despite how their rating system works. To me, it's the same as basing a buy/not buy on a game's forums. Who are the most active members on forums? People with grievances to air, and fanboys? I know; "But Rob, here you are, what gives?" and the answer is simple, I find them entertaining, sometimes more entertaining than the games they are connected to.
"But Rob, why jump on my post for mentioning it"? It's simple really, and spelled out twice in my previous replies. The people that are going to write the BBB about a business are people that feel they are adversely affected, and their investigation is simply going to be a phone call/letters asking about the situation. So if it's "I feel I should be refunded for my purchase" and there's a "no refund clause" in the purchase agreement, company gets a lower grade, and if there are x number of complaints, they get an F. So, people that do exactly what you're calling a negative by stating that the OP doesn't have a right to complain write letters to the BBB, and generate a negative experience according to BBB guidelines and policies is supposed to be a goto source? I guess the difference is, that I know exactly how it works, and so, know that I don't need a grade from the BBB to make a buy/don't buy decision.
Of course, I didn't jump on the Founder's Packs when I started getting emails about them last year, or whenever it was, because I had no idea what the game was going to be like, and couldn't justify spending the money, and after playing it, I was glad I didn't spend my 200 bucks on it. I did, obviously, spend 60 bucks on it later, but not sight unseen. In other words, I managed to make an informed decision, and won't regret it. Which is, surprisingly enough, what you're advocating, and I managed to do it w/out having to have the BBB's negative influence biased grade to tell me. You can link definitions until your brain explodes, but that won't change the fact that if nobody is complaining, a business won't have a rating at the BBB. For proof, search their database about me, just search Robert the Bard, and let me know what my grade is, okay? Then we can talk about the BBB as a reliable source of non-biased information on a company.
It was a collector's edition egg.
You REALLY have a massive grudge against the BBB don't you? I mean like, it was ONE small comment involving them and you have now totally blown it out of proportion and made it some massive aspect of your argument, it's starting to come across as odd. either that or you just can't stop focusing on the near irrelevant parts of my post which is equally as odd. An informed decision is key, but there ARE sites like the BBB (but not exclusively them alone), which could give you a decent enough piece of the puzzle for you to put together to help bolster that informed decision.
all you're doing now AGAIN is making an even BIGGER straw man, arguing by taking something I said, out of context. And pretty much you've been doing this since the start in a increasingly rant laden fashion.
If I had of exclaimed "oh but you should ALWAYS check the BBB for their rating of a business, they're the only ones to listen to" then hells yeah you're totally justified in this RIDICULOUS assumption you've made, instead I just said "they deserve the rating" that doesn't mean that BBB gave them that rating for legitimate reasons, that means "I" think they deserve an "F" rating.
Opinions, are not facts. Please stop considering MINE as a fact, when it wasn't intended that way, by making a huge straw man argument about it.
edit: Anyways, perhaps you do have a point in the first post, I should have phrased it better, but ****... some fkn rant about one aspect of a post xD that wasn't that relevant even lol
I'll rephrase as such:
OP should have known better than to trust a company that has a LOT of negative feedback and controversy about it from various sources.
There, no BBB, no specifications just "a lot of folks call this game's monetization HORSE MANURE" lol
happy now?
Actually, all I've been doing is replying to you.
All you've been doing is blowing one thing I said out of proportion, I've rephrased what I meant to better fit into your criteria, and the points I made other than that still stand.
Do you even HAVE an issue with ANYTHING else I said in regards to the op, or were you JUST being anally retentive for the sake of it?
I commented on the part of your post that I had issue with, and have subsequently commented on the remainder of it. Of course, you were so intent on defending the BBB that you went off on a tangent with it. I have no control over what you decide is an important issue, but you evidently felt it was important enough to start looking up info on them, and then attacking with strawman and definitions thereof. Responding to those doesn't make me anally retentive, although presenting them while claiming it wasn't important really does come across that way. Check it out, I'm a Guardian. That means that I bought the cheaper pack, but I didn't change to Guardian until today. What do you suppose that means? It means that I made an informed decision. I have been getting emails from PWE to buy the Founder's Packs for months, since I have had an account with them, largely inactive, for years. Since I couldn't make an informed decision sight unseen, I made the logical decision, and waited. I then weighed what's in what, and decided that I could see myself buying this pack w/out regret.