It's worth noting that after you fuse 4 shards into a lesser enchantment, 4 of those fuse into a regular one, and 4 regulars fuse into a greater. All told, you need 21 coalescent wards to get a greater. That's looking at $210 for enough wards for 1 enchantment.
Ahahahaha, oh man. So glad I'm seeing this now. Hitting max level and dropping this game. Easily some of the worst free to play practices I've seen. Just because a game isn't charging you monthly doesn't mean it can do everything in its power to make you spend money. I'm honestly surprised you don't have to pay for stuff in the foundry with the way this game is shaping up.
Cool, there's this neat system in place where you can trade AD for Zen!
Don't wanna farm AD for Zen?
Then quit moaning about something you aren't willing to do anything about. The option is there. Whether you take it or not is up to you. If you choose not to then you have no place to moan about it.
I already have a possible AD farm tactic and I am only lvl 18....
cant friggen wait to hit 60 and have fun! Game is solid so far in my experience.
How do people expect free games to just magically run. The company that made this fun game needs to make money somehow, or there wouldn't be a game at all. If you consider your enchantments as a one time expenditure, I'd wager you still pay less money on this game than you would a sub-mmo.
This game won't run for very long, magically or otherwise, if 90% of people stop playing it. It's a fun game, but some of these mechanics are just too absurd for most people to tolerate.
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mokomiiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
People need to stop being asshats about this... look we get it you have no life, and sit with your mommys wallet and can buy everything you want...some of us dont have that luxary. I dont mind buying things off the item shop...heck i'm pretty willing to throw money at a game i love... but i just ran numbers on what would take to get ONE character started...basic items a companion and mount wanna know what i came up with?
Around 100 dollars USD
Thats just BASIC items... BASIC stuff bags, a companion and a mount...
I dont know about the rest of you but it bothers me that i am expected to drop so much for basic items...
the BEST basic bag (-Greater bag of holding z1000), the BEST basic mount (Heavy Worg z4,000), the BEST basic companion (-Honey Badger z3,500). which totals to 85$ and you have the best the game has to offer. You are given a ?16? slot and a ?12? slot bag through quests, you can buy mounts for 5g then upgrade them to epic tier, and are given a basic of each type of companion (the upgrade versions of any companion isn't out yet )
If you want to make the argument that the game is too instant for pay, I can agree with you.
I should of read what you said and just not even responded. ug the trolls.
This game won't run for very long, magically or otherwise, if 90% of people stop playing it. It's a fun game, but some of these mechanics are just too absurd for most people to tolerate.
I haven't gone a play session without getting smacked in the face by something I'd have to pay for in the cash shop. This is not a good feeling to have while gaming. It'd be like if diablo 3 had popups in your inventory showing you a superior weapon/armor piece to yours for $5 on the RMAH every time you opened it up. This is not a feeling I had while playing GW2, which ironically, is a free to play game as well.
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ternesyavMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
For all those critisizing this man's post, remember that the point is not "either/or," its "how much?"
This game is in desperate need of serious balancing. The costs in ZEN/AD are astronomical, considering how much/how often most of these items/services could be used.
They seriously need to reevaluate their demand/supply curve. The numbers involved are pushing so many players out of the option to purchase.
If the ZEN ceiling had been set at 100 AD instead of 500 AD, there'd be a lot more exchanging going on. If the AD costs were reduced, there'd be more interest in the players in using what's available (DON'T socket those symbols! The cost to remove them is too high).
To respond to this post with "how do you expect them to make money?" I reply "They'll make more money by reducing the single-use costs on items and services and making those options more viable to players."
the BEST basic bag (-Greater bag of holding z1000), the BEST basic mount (Heavy Worg z4,000), the BEST basic companion (-Honey Badger z3,500). which totals to 85$ and you have the best the game has to offer. You are given a ?16? slot and a ?12? slot bag through quests, you can buy mounts for 5g then upgrade them to epic tier, and are given a basic of each type of companion (the upgrade versions of any companion isn't out yet )
If you want to make the argument that the game is too instant for pay, I can agree with you.
I should of read what you said and just not even responded. ug the trolls.
There are four bag slots, so you'd want two bags, or three since one of the quest ones is a half-bag. Then there is the bank space, which would probably need an upgrade for any kind of extended end game play.
For all those critisizing this man's post, remember that the point is not "either/or," its "how much?"
This game is in desperate need of serious balancing. The costs in ZEN/AD are astronomical, considering how much/how often most of these items/services could be used.
They seriously need to reevaluate their demand/supply curve. The numbers involved are pushing so many players out of the option to purchase.
If the ZEN ceiling had been set at 100 AD instead of 500 AD, there'd be a lot more exchanging going on. If the AD costs were reduced, there'd be more interest in the players in using what's available (DON'T socket those symbols! The cost to remove them is too high).
To respond to this post with "how do you expect them to make money?" I reply "They'll make more money by reducing the single-use costs on items and services and making those options more viable to players."
Right now, PerfectWorld is cheating themselves.
Unless I misunderstood something, the AD <--> Zen market is all player-driven economy. Is that not the case?
Just thought I'd let everyone know about this. After 3 days of farming lvl 60 epic dungeons I finally got enough (4) Enchantment Shards to make a special enchantment, Lightning I believe. These are not the same as the regular stat Enchants, they have special abilities which aren't listed, I assume, until you fuse them.
Well, I go to fuse my 4 Shard of Lightning Enchantment only to discover there is a whopping 1% rate of success. So, essentially, unless you buy a magical insta fuse stone for US Dollars, there is basically no way to get an enchant.
I've got probably 10 different kinds of these enchantments filling up my valuable bag slots and none of them is worth a lick unless I fork over $$ to fuse them.
I'm not hoisting the P2W flag just for this particular issue, but that doesn't mean it isn't a very undesirable issue that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
This has one of my biggest gripes with all of pwe's games. Refining has got to be the first thing I dread when I see a game im interested in playing hosted by them. Ive gotten to the point now that if I am going to play one of their games I try to see what the structure of the game is eg: pvp centric or pve to determine how important refining will actually be. Now in this case its about gem fusing but I suppose thats kind of PWE's refine system: high cost and high risk the higher you go, which churns out TONS of sales for refining/fusing success aids. Its such used feature in their games that it must be a real winner for them.
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lorenzomaltaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited May 2013
And that is why am just passing trough till final fantasy 14 is out, were all i have to do is pay 9.99e a month or even less when i pay for 6 month and not worry that i have to pay money for mounts, inventory, top endgame gear, crafting boosts ecc and ecc. and instead of grinding months for currency to swap for zen and then give up and buy zen, il just have fun playing with no worry to find a brick wall every turn i make. i played STO since lunch and since PW took over P2W is there new motto and neverwinter is exactly the same.
I knew it since I saw "PerfectWorld" attached to the title, so do my friends with whom I'm playing online games for over 5 years. We got some experience with MMOs, pure online games and simple sp+mp titles.
Here is what I will say about all of this cashshop nonsense and people defending it.
First off, MMOs survive if there is a playerbase to support it + enough content to hold that playerbase in the game.
Neverwinter Online has this nicely done, there is foundry, a simple and very casual (a bit too much imo) map editor, which allows community to provide FREE QUESTS for the game, thus supporting end game content for most of players.
But on other hand there is cash shop.
I don't really like to say that, but League of Legends done it right, it was the first game I have played where I spend way too much money on non-essential stuff, SKINS! My wallet went ~150$ lighter in less than 3 months (this is massive amount of money, because my monthly wage is around 400$, I do not live in first world country).
Now, what would happen to my attitude in LoL if the only way to gain access to more champions/characters was through item shop? I would quit that game on day 1, never spend a single cent on it.
Never in my life I will ever put a single cent on a game where only way to achieve "end game" gear is to put some your hard earned money into cash shop! NEVER.
I don't mind at all spending tons of cash on little shiny skins and effects, actually I would buy TONS of them, but when it comes to buying "100% success rate item" while basic/free version has only 1% ... FRAK NO! Not in million years I will spend a single dime on it! NEVER.
It's really surprising for me that people fall for that.
"Free players", that see that, usually leave game pretty soon, thus lowering game content (playerbase is the most valuable MMO CONTENT!) and ofcourse lowering the number of potential customers.
Itemshop works way better than subscription, especially when combined with free to play model or even cheap B2P.
It's more effective to have 1.000.000 players who dish out 5-15$ every month on some stuff, than 5.000 players who put 250$ into the game every month...
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neyariMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Game hasn't been live for a week. As the items get increased in circulation, the prices will be driven down on the auction house. 1% is a bit harsh, but what tier enchant are you trying to fuse? Sounds like you already have a pretty high end enchantment.
Now, what would happen to my attitude in LoL if the only way to gain access to more champions/characters was through item shop? I would quit that game on day 1, never spend a single cent on it.
Uhm... you get astral diamonds from dailies, various quests, making content and getting tipped, you can sell things on the auction house for astral diamonds. Which you in turn can buy zen with those astral diamonds. Then zen is sold by the players. This is the first week really, and the market is unstable, but once it levels out it should become reasonable.
And even then, LOL is a bad example, it would take an average of 4 wins a day, 248 months to get all the characters unlocked. Or you can spend 20 dollars and skip months worth of effort. That number fluctuates the more matches you play. But consider that each mach can last upwards to an hour or so.
Unless I misunderstood something, the AD <--> Zen market is all player-driven economy. Is that not the case?
That is the case. The game supports the range of 50:1 to 500:1. Anything in between is completely supply and demand driven. The Zen value of ADs is currently very low because founders got between 600k and 2M ADs, and those flooded the market. In time, the Zen value of Astral Diamonds will steadily climb because presumably more ADs leave than enter the system. This has been true for both CO and STO, which use the same system.
Jesus...thanks mate. In my book, it's starting to look pay to win. Are these enchantments significant?
(Before i get flamed, I know you COULD farm them with AD. But at the rate you get AD and because you can only refine a certain amount a day, it would take ages. Don't bite my head off.)
How do people expect free games to just magically run. The company that made this fun game needs to make money somehow, or there wouldn't be a game at all. If you consider your enchantments as a one time expenditure, I'd wager you still pay less money on this game than you would a sub-mmo.
Why the hell do people keep saying this? There are F2P games that sell nothing but pointless vanity and are very successful, does anyone have a brain nowadays?
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kwaziMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
TF2 comes to mind, although you have to get drops it's not hard at all to trade a scrap for whatever weapon you like, and that's just on the non-cosmetic side.
I'm glad there is a constructive discussion on these forums, didn't really think I'd see one. Pity that PWE won't do anything about the various issues pertaining to their awful business model.
Jesus...thanks mate. In my book, it's starting to look pay to win. Are these enchantments significant?
(Before i get flamed, I know you COULD farm them with AD. But at the rate you get AD and because you can only refine a certain amount a day, it would take ages. Don't bite my head off.)
They have dedicated slots in armor and weapons. Yes they are significant.
Also note, that's just to get a lesser. You need 4 of the lessers to make a normal, and 4 normals to make a greater.
For those keeping score, that's $640 to make a greater out of shards.
Yes, you CAN get the coalescent wards out of 7 celestial coins but it is only a chance at getting one. You are far more likely to get a relatively useless Preservation Ward. The only other source is Nightmare Lockboxes and obvious those cost money too.
They have dedicated slots in armor and weapons. Yes they are significant.
Also note, that's just to get a lesser. You need 4 of the lessers to make a normal, and 4 normals to make a greater.
For those keeping score, that's $640 to make a greater out of shards.
Yes, you CAN get the coalescent wards out of 7 celestial coins but it is only a chance at getting one. You are far more likely to get a relatively useless Preservation Ward. The only other source is Nightmare Lockboxes and obvious those cost money too.
What do the enchantments do exactly? Like what are the stats of them...Because this is making me worry
More than worried here and I hope some of this is not true, but it looks like this company may turn out to be one of those I may not do business with. I sub to 2 other games a year, paid a lifetime sub for another and I regularly pay for stuff in around 3 or 4 other game’s cash shops. As much as I like Neverwinter this model we are hearing about is taking the proverbial to an new extreme.
It seems to me that the only people who will be left to play this good game will be those with enough time on their hands to farm for the ADs needed to convert to Zen, or those with a lot of disposable income. Or those who don't give a toss about getting the "good gear". I might be wrong, but that sounds like a rather foolish approach to maxing income from the widest possible player base.
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ordainedoneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I've been saying this in these forums for weeks. And constantly got shot down. This is Perfect World Entertainment were talking about. IF Anyone had done their homework they would have figured out how BAD PWE runs games into the ground.
EDIT: Granted I'm only playing this until my Sub MMO's come out and Beta re-kicks back up. Also play POE as it is a FAR better game, and truly F2P. Just a reminder, do NOT play PWE games. Everyone I know I've pushed away from the game, and hell a few of my friends wouldn't even play it for kicks because they, like me dislike PWE with a passion.
Yeah it is definitely heading into the P2W realm with those enchants. Sad I don't mind coughing up cash mainly for vanity items but this just seems too much.
Ahahahaha, oh man. So glad I'm seeing this now. Hitting max level and dropping this game. Easily some of the worst free to play practices I've seen. Just because a game isn't charging you monthly doesn't mean it can do everything in its power to make you spend money. I'm honestly surprised you don't have to pay for stuff in the foundry with the way this game is shaping up.
Shut it before you give them an Idea they shouldn't have.
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morgensteinnMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
I already have a possible AD farm tactic and I am only lvl 18....
cant friggen wait to hit 60 and have fun! Game is solid so far in my experience.
there is no AD farm tactic unless you can get pure AD, Seeing as you are only allowed to refine 24k AD per day. getting 1 mil AD through farming will take ages. Best way to do it , is get a good item and sell it
Comments
Ahahahaha, oh man. So glad I'm seeing this now. Hitting max level and dropping this game. Easily some of the worst free to play practices I've seen. Just because a game isn't charging you monthly doesn't mean it can do everything in its power to make you spend money. I'm honestly surprised you don't have to pay for stuff in the foundry with the way this game is shaping up.
I already have a possible AD farm tactic and I am only lvl 18....
cant friggen wait to hit 60 and have fun! Game is solid so far in my experience.
Well, ain't that something.
Thanks for the info.
This game won't run for very long, magically or otherwise, if 90% of people stop playing it. It's a fun game, but some of these mechanics are just too absurd for most people to tolerate.
the BEST basic bag (-Greater bag of holding z1000), the BEST basic mount (Heavy Worg z4,000), the BEST basic companion (-Honey Badger z3,500). which totals to 85$ and you have the best the game has to offer. You are given a ?16? slot and a ?12? slot bag through quests, you can buy mounts for 5g then upgrade them to epic tier, and are given a basic of each type of companion (the upgrade versions of any companion isn't out yet
If you want to make the argument that the game is too instant for pay, I can agree with you.
I should of read what you said and just not even responded. ug the trolls.
I haven't gone a play session without getting smacked in the face by something I'd have to pay for in the cash shop. This is not a good feeling to have while gaming. It'd be like if diablo 3 had popups in your inventory showing you a superior weapon/armor piece to yours for $5 on the RMAH every time you opened it up. This is not a feeling I had while playing GW2, which ironically, is a free to play game as well.
This game is in desperate need of serious balancing. The costs in ZEN/AD are astronomical, considering how much/how often most of these items/services could be used.
They seriously need to reevaluate their demand/supply curve. The numbers involved are pushing so many players out of the option to purchase.
If the ZEN ceiling had been set at 100 AD instead of 500 AD, there'd be a lot more exchanging going on. If the AD costs were reduced, there'd be more interest in the players in using what's available (DON'T socket those symbols! The cost to remove them is too high).
To respond to this post with "how do you expect them to make money?" I reply "They'll make more money by reducing the single-use costs on items and services and making those options more viable to players."
Right now, PerfectWorld is cheating themselves.
There are four bag slots, so you'd want two bags, or three since one of the quest ones is a half-bag. Then there is the bank space, which would probably need an upgrade for any kind of extended end game play.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
Unless I misunderstood something, the AD <--> Zen market is all player-driven economy. Is that not the case?
This has one of my biggest gripes with all of pwe's games. Refining has got to be the first thing I dread when I see a game im interested in playing hosted by them. Ive gotten to the point now that if I am going to play one of their games I try to see what the structure of the game is eg: pvp centric or pve to determine how important refining will actually be. Now in this case its about gem fusing but I suppose thats kind of PWE's refine system: high cost and high risk the higher you go, which churns out TONS of sales for refining/fusing success aids. Its such used feature in their games that it must be a real winner for them.
Here is what I will say about all of this cashshop nonsense and people defending it.
First off, MMOs survive if there is a playerbase to support it + enough content to hold that playerbase in the game.
Neverwinter Online has this nicely done, there is foundry, a simple and very casual (a bit too much imo) map editor, which allows community to provide FREE QUESTS for the game, thus supporting end game content for most of players.
But on other hand there is cash shop.
I don't really like to say that, but League of Legends done it right, it was the first game I have played where I spend way too much money on non-essential stuff, SKINS! My wallet went ~150$ lighter in less than 3 months (this is massive amount of money, because my monthly wage is around 400$, I do not live in first world country).
Now, what would happen to my attitude in LoL if the only way to gain access to more champions/characters was through item shop? I would quit that game on day 1, never spend a single cent on it.
Never in my life I will ever put a single cent on a game where only way to achieve "end game" gear is to put some your hard earned money into cash shop! NEVER.
I don't mind at all spending tons of cash on little shiny skins and effects, actually I would buy TONS of them, but when it comes to buying "100% success rate item" while basic/free version has only 1% ... FRAK NO! Not in million years I will spend a single dime on it! NEVER.
It's really surprising for me that people fall for that.
"Free players", that see that, usually leave game pretty soon, thus lowering game content (playerbase is the most valuable MMO CONTENT!) and ofcourse lowering the number of potential customers.
Itemshop works way better than subscription, especially when combined with free to play model or even cheap B2P.
It's more effective to have 1.000.000 players who dish out 5-15$ every month on some stuff, than 5.000 players who put 250$ into the game every month...
Uhm... you get astral diamonds from dailies, various quests, making content and getting tipped, you can sell things on the auction house for astral diamonds. Which you in turn can buy zen with those astral diamonds. Then zen is sold by the players. This is the first week really, and the market is unstable, but once it levels out it should become reasonable.
And even then, LOL is a bad example, it would take an average of 4 wins a day, 248 months to get all the characters unlocked. Or you can spend 20 dollars and skip months worth of effort. That number fluctuates the more matches you play. But consider that each mach can last upwards to an hour or so.
That is the case. The game supports the range of 50:1 to 500:1. Anything in between is completely supply and demand driven. The Zen value of ADs is currently very low because founders got between 600k and 2M ADs, and those flooded the market. In time, the Zen value of Astral Diamonds will steadily climb because presumably more ADs leave than enter the system. This has been true for both CO and STO, which use the same system.
Jesus...thanks mate. In my book, it's starting to look pay to win. Are these enchantments significant?
(Before i get flamed, I know you COULD farm them with AD. But at the rate you get AD and because you can only refine a certain amount a day, it would take ages. Don't bite my head off.)
Why the hell do people keep saying this? There are F2P games that sell nothing but pointless vanity and are very successful, does anyone have a brain nowadays?
I'm glad there is a constructive discussion on these forums, didn't really think I'd see one. Pity that PWE won't do anything about the various issues pertaining to their awful business model.
They have dedicated slots in armor and weapons. Yes they are significant.
Also note, that's just to get a lesser. You need 4 of the lessers to make a normal, and 4 normals to make a greater.
For those keeping score, that's $640 to make a greater out of shards.
Yes, you CAN get the coalescent wards out of 7 celestial coins but it is only a chance at getting one. You are far more likely to get a relatively useless Preservation Ward. The only other source is Nightmare Lockboxes and obvious those cost money too.
Lightninghead enchantments for armor have a chance to stun enemies that hit you.
Most of the weapon enchants seem to do X% of your weapon damage as DoTs, lessers seem to range between 5% and 8%.
I don't know what all of them do though because until you get 4 shards you can't find out.
It seems to me that the only people who will be left to play this good game will be those with enough time on their hands to farm for the ADs needed to convert to Zen, or those with a lot of disposable income. Or those who don't give a toss about getting the "good gear". I might be wrong, but that sounds like a rather foolish approach to maxing income from the widest possible player base.
EDIT: Granted I'm only playing this until my Sub MMO's come out and Beta re-kicks back up. Also play POE as it is a FAR better game, and truly F2P. Just a reminder, do NOT play PWE games. Everyone I know I've pushed away from the game, and hell a few of my friends wouldn't even play it for kicks because they, like me dislike PWE with a passion.
%1 chance is just silly. It's like saying you *HAVE TO* buy wards. Even condoms protect you by %99. It's one in a million.
The chance without wards should at least be %20 - %25~ ish
So people might want to buy wards from TIME to TIME not ALWAYS
there is no AD farm tactic unless you can get pure AD, Seeing as you are only allowed to refine 24k AD per day. getting 1 mil AD through farming will take ages. Best way to do it , is get a good item and sell it